Old German drilling chambered in 8.7x72mm
David Mason Curry
with a 72 beneath it for the rifle barrel and a 12 with a circled 13
below it on the shotgun barrels. I assume that it has 12-gauge
shotgun barrels and that the rifle barrel is chambered for a 8.7x72.
However, I can't find any mention of this cartridge in "Cartridges
of the World" (or whatever the title is!) Heck, I can't even find
an 8.7mm *anything*. Why couldn't it be 9.3x74R ;-) Anyway, does
anybody know anything about this odd cartridge?
Cheers,
David Curry
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please find out about rec.guns at http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/rec.guns
Zickzack7
In article <79fcli$rma$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, dcu...@silo.csci.unt.edu (David
Mason Curry) writes:
#My father-in-law owns an old German drilling which is marked 8,7mm
#with a 72 beneath it for the rifle barrel and a 12 with a circled 13
#below it on the shotgun barrels. I assume that it has 12-gauge
#shotgun barrels and that the rifle barrel is chambered for a 8.7x72.
#However, I can't find any mention of this cartridge in "Cartridges
#of the World" (or whatever the title is!) Heck, I can't even find
#an 8.7mm *anything*. Why couldn't it be 9.3x74R ;-) Anyway, does
#anybody know anything about this odd cartridge?
The odd rifle cartridge you are refering to is not odd. It is the 9.3x72R,
which
is still loaded by RWS (find the Old Western Scrounger on www for ammunition).
It might also still be loaded by Norma, Sellior & Bellot, and possibly
Hirtenberger.
The 12 gauge is correct, but most likely it will be of 65 mm (2-9/16 inch)
chamber
length. It is dangereous to shoot 70 mm (2-3/4 inch) cartridges from this gun.
You also should assure yourself that both the rifle barrel, and the shot
barrels are
nitro proofed. This is a somewhat less common Drilling you have, most were
in 16 / 65 gauge.
Cordially,
Klaus
Isaac Wilder
: My father-in-law owns an old German drilling which is marked 8,7mm
: with a 72 beneath it for the rifle barrel and a 12 with a circled 13
: below it on the shotgun barrels. I assume that it has 12-gauge
: shotgun barrels and that the rifle barrel is chambered for a 8.7x72.
: However, I can't find any mention of this cartridge in "Cartridges
: of the World" (or whatever the title is!) Heck, I can't even find
: an 8.7mm *anything*. Why couldn't it be 9.3x74R ;-) Anyway, does
: anybody know anything about this odd cartridge?
This is most probably a 9.3 x72 but the shotgun barrel is a non standard
size ie the 13. There should also be a stamp for the length of the
shotgun chamber most likely 70 for 70 mm but also 65 or 75 are possibilities.
--
Isaac(Ike) B. Wilder
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Stephan...@compuserve.com
(Zickzack7) wrote:
# The odd rifle cartridge you are refering to is not odd. It is the
# 9.3x72R,
What are you trying to do, get the feller killed?? <BG>
what gives you the idea that a barrel marked 8.7 should be 9.3?
I own a Drilling (Krieghoff Waldschuetz) with 8x72R, this could be the
one he has, but without slugging the barrel he will not know for sure.IF
he has a 8x72R, the bullet dia. would be .318. Only one source in
Germany for commercial munitions, VERY expensive, but easily made
yourself by resizeing new 9.3x72 brass.
David Mason Curry
: In article <79fcli$rma$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, dcu...@silo.csci.unt.edu (David
: Mason Curry) writes:
: #My father-in-law owns an old German drilling which is marked 8,7mm
: #with a 72 beneath it for the rifle barrel
<snip>
: The odd rifle cartridge you are refering to is not odd. It is the 9.3x72R,
: which
: is still loaded by RWS (find the Old Western Scrounger on www for ammunition).
I hope that you are right, but I need a little more convincing. My Father-
In-Law finally borrowed some calipers and the diameter in the groves is
0.355 in. or 9.0 mm (the diameter in the lands was 0.335). The data I
have places the bore diameter of the 9.3x72R at 0.376 in., which is bigger
than some other 9.3's. Is this a big enough difference to matter if one
is shooting soft lead bullets?
: It might also still be loaded by Norma, Sellior & Bellot, and possibly
: Hirtenberger.
: The 12 gauge is correct, but most likely it will be of 65 mm (2-9/16 inch)
: chamber
: length. It is dangereous to shoot 70 mm (2-3/4 inch) cartridges from this gun.
You just may have saved my rear, I had no idea that the German shotgun
shells were generally shorter.
: You also should assure yourself that both the rifle barrel, and the shot
: barrels are
: nitro proofed. This is a somewhat less common Drilling you have, most were
: in 16 / 65 gauge.
I appreciate the information. Thanks!
Bill Marrs
#
#: In article <79fcli$rma$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, dcu...@silo.csci.unt.edu (David
#: Mason Curry) writes:
#
#: #My father-in-law owns an old German drilling which is marked 8,7mm
#: #with a 72 beneath it for the rifle barrel
#
. My Father-
#In-Law finally borrowed some calipers and the diameter in the groves is
#0.355 in. or 9.0 mm (the diameter in the lands was 0.335). The data I
#have places the bore diameter of the 9.3x72R at 0.376 in.,
#
Another possibility is 9x70R mauser. Bullet dia .357. (Nontes "caliber
conversions"). The only sure way to tell is slug the bore and do a chamber
cast. I like to use cerrosafe from Brownells for the cast.
On the 12 ga, check the chamber length carefully, 12 ga came in lengths as
short as 2", maybe 1 1/2", in some guns (mostly British). Are the barrels
damascus?
Bill
Alexander Eichener
On 9 Feb 1999 Stephan...@compuserve.com wrote:
# In article <79kkdf$e1l$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, zick...@aol.com
# (Zickzack7) wrote:
#
# # The odd rifle cartridge you are refering to is not odd. It is the
# # 9.3x72R,
#
# what gives you the idea that a barrel marked 8.7 should be 9.3?
Knowledge of the common old German proofing practice to indicate land
rather than groove diameter, and additional knowledge of the trend (at
that time) towards "tight" barrels, which were believed to be (or remain )
more accurate. The RWS handbook also describes this tendency.
Yes, one could speculate about the 8 x 72 R, but that only holds true if
one overlooks that this old Drilling might very well have "lead bullet
grooves", which are significantly deeper than grooves for jacketed
bullets. Even if this be not so, the gun was produced before normalization
and overbore lead bullets were commonly used at that time. Klaus'
assumption therefore is the most likely and reasonable one. To be sure,
one should make a cerrosafe chamber cast and have the barrel slugged.
Regards,
--
Alexander Eichener, Heidelberg
Main address: c...@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
Zickzack7
In article <79qmmo$3tc$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, Stephan...@compuserve.com
writes:
#In article <79kkdf$e1l$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, zick...@aol.com
#(Zickzack7) wrote:
#
## The odd rifle cartridge you are refering to is not odd. It is the
## 9.3x72R,
#
#What are you trying to do, get the feller killed?? <BG>
Not at all a grinning matter...
#what gives you the idea that a barrel marked 8.7 should be 9.3?
#I own a Drilling (Krieghoff Waldschuetz) with 8x72R, this could be the
#one he has, but without slugging the barrel he will not know for sure.IF
#he has a 8x72R, the bullet dia. would be .318. Only one source in
#Germany for commercial munitions, VERY expensive, but easily made
#yourself by resizeing new 9.3x72 brass.
#
It is not an idea, rather, I would attribute my decision to respond the way I
did
to knowledge.
I am inclined to believe you are German. If so, take a peek either at the
'Beschuss-
gesetz von 1891', or if easier for you to obtain, Merkblatt Nummer 7 der
ehemaligen
"Deutsche Jaegerschaft" - 'Die Beschussstempel'.
For explanatory remarks you might wish to view Alexander Eicheners post to
enrich
your knowledge.
Cordially,
Klaus
David Mason Curry
The Barrels were produced by Krupps. I am going to get some cerrosafe
and do a chamber cast and slug his gun next time I visit him. I'll let
everyone know what I find out. It'll probably be a couple of weeks.
Stephan...@compuserve.com
(Zickzack7) wrote:
# I am inclined to believe you are German.
only 50% <g>
Stephan...@compuserve.com
# 'Beschuss-
# gesetz von 1891', or if easier for you to obtain, Merkblatt Nummer 7
# der
# ehemaligen
# "Deutsche Jaegerschaft" - 'Die Beschussstempel'.
can one find this online somewhwere? TIA
Zickzack7
In article <7ad5ei$j$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, Stephan...@compuserve.com writes:
## 'Beschuss-
## gesetz von 1891', or if easier for you to obtain, Merkblatt Nummer 7
## der
## ehemaligen
## "Deutsche Jaegerschaft" - 'Die Beschussstempel'.
#
#can one find this online somewhwere? TIA
I doubt it. However, I do believe you are in Germany? If so, a visit to a
local
library should be rewarded with success. If they don't have it, they will get
it
from another library for you.
Cordially,
Klaus