Powders: Bullseye or W231??
matheas
Help! I've narrowed it down to two: Bullseye or W231. I need a _quick_
burning powder as I'll be reloading:
.45acp in a 4.25" SIG barrel
-and-
.40 in a short 3" Kel-tec bbl.
so quick-burning is essential, esp. for the kel-tec. Bullseye is the
quickest I've heard of, but, despite my search on the www, I haven't been
able to determine how much slower W231 burns, other than the fact that it
burns much cleaner; Anybody know? Is one more accurate? Also, can W231 do
light shotgun loads like Bullseye can? Thanks.
please remember to email me if you post.
matheas yinger.
York, PA.
Everett
matheas wrote:
#
# Help! I've narrowed it down to two: Bullseye or W231. I need a _quick_
# burning powder as I'll be reloading:
# .45acp in a 4.25" SIG barrel
# -and-
# .40 in a short 3" Kel-tec bbl.
# matheas yinger.
# York, PA.
The 231 is cleaner burning that Bullseye. Both ignite easily and are
well behaved for light loads. 231 is supposed to be a little slower
than Bullseye, but there is no way to tell the difference in use.
However, both of them are too fast for good .45ACP loads. Unique is
better than either Bullseye or 231 in my opinion. I do not have any
experience with .40, so can't recommend anything there.
SIXGUNKEN
I've had excellent luck using 231 in everything handgunwise. I have used it in
light to medium .44 mag., .44 spec., .38 spec., .357 mag., .45 acp and .45
Colt. I am too cheap to put in twice as much powder yielding half as many
loads per pound of powder if there is another way that is safe.
Look at your loading manual for several calibers and see how many of them list
loads for W231. Also check the pressures these loads give if your manual lists
this information.
Your comment about W231 being a clean burning powder is absolutely correct.
If I liked to type I could go on and on about how good 231 is.
Fluid
Someone wrote:
#
# Help! I've narrowed it down to two: Bullseye or W231. I need a _quick_
# burning powder as I'll be reloading:
# so quick-burning is essential, esp. for the kel-tec....
It is a common misconception that fast burning powders are essential for
good velocity in short handgun barrels. Actually, a lot of published
testing over the past fifteen years shows that in most cases, the powder
which gives the highest velocity in longer barrels usually gives the
highest in shorter tubes too.
In my experience with the .45 in a 3.75-inch S&W, AA#5 gives higher
velocities than Bullseye within acceptable pressure limitations. While
the difference was small, 40 fps, it was real. I do not know what the
difference would be in a 3" barrel, but I doubt that much is gained by
using Bullseye or W231.
W231 is slower than Bullseye, but does not give much more velocity than
BE, perhaps 20 fps or so. Nothing wrong with W231 or BE, and the muzzle
flash will likley be less with them versus Unique or AA#5, but extra
velocity won't be in the cards, at least not from my experience.
Jay T
Steve Ellis
I know it is not one of your choices, but I have had extremely
good luck with Accurate #5 in .45 acp. Very clean, consistent,
and very low muzzle flash. I've also used 231 and Clays.
All work well, but #5 is my favorite for target
and bowing pin shooting.
Steve Ellis
NRA Member
_______________________________________
matheas wrote:
# Help! I've narrowed it down to two: Bullseye or W231. I need a _quick_
# burning powder as I'll be reloading:
# .45acp in a 4.25" SIG barrel
# -and-
# .40 in a short 3" Kel-tec bbl.
#
# so quick-burning is essential, esp. for the kel-tec. Bullseye is the
# quickest I've heard of, but, despite my search on the www, I haven't been
# able to determine how much slower W231 burns, other than the fact that it
# burns much cleaner; Anybody know? Is one more accurate? Also, can W231 do
# light shotgun loads like Bullseye can? Thanks.
#
# please remember to email me if you post.
Rosco Benson
I've used Bullseye for "hardball-equivalent" loads, using 225-230gr.
hardcast bullets, for over 20 years. They work fine. Several associates
of mine also use 231 for this purpose. 231 is a bit cleaner and meters
a bit better, but ol' Bullseye works fine. Bill Wilson, in one of his
books,
suggested .45ACP loads using Bullseye or 231 (it was his impression
that the Bullseye loads recoiled a bit less than 231 loads of the same
velocity and bullet weight....go figure).
Unique's slower burn rate becomes useful if one is loading "hot" .45ACP
rounds for hunting, bowling pin shoots, defense, or other power-critical
applications. With Unique one can push a hardcast 200gr. HG68 SWC
to a bit over 1,000fps in a 5" barrel without much strain. This load will
cleanly take boar and deer (I've eaten the results). Unique is noticeably
less clean-burning than Bullseye or 231. In warm weather, when we have
a bit of perspiration for it to stick to, one can always spot the fellow
using
Unique, by the flecks of powder on his arms and face.
Rosco S. Benson
My opinions, not my employer's
Everett <ho...@phonet.com> wrote in article
<6h6jb1$2...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# The 231 is cleaner burning that Bullseye. Both ignite easily and are
# well behaved for light loads. 231 is supposed to be a little slower
# than Bullseye, but there is no way to tell the difference in use.
# However, both of them are too fast for good .45ACP loads. Unique is
# better than either Bullseye or 231 in my opinion. I do not have any
# experience with .40, so can't recommend anything there.
Christopher Lym
Fluid (fl...@alaska.net) wrote:
: It is a common misconception that fast burning powders are essential for
: good velocity in short handgun barrels. Actually, a lot of published
: testing over the past fifteen years shows that in most cases, the powder
: which gives the highest velocity in longer barrels usually gives the
: highest in shorter tubes too.
I have a question, then -- wouldn't slower powders sometimes be too
inefficient because the bullet leaves the barrel before the powder
finishes burning? Thus, not all the powder has burnt to propel the
projectile. no?
I guess I am one who currently holds that misconception that you use fast
powders for short barrels, and slower powders for longer barrels.
Set me straight!
Chris
Everett
It appears that we basically agree, just have different preferences. My
loads are "top end" and are with heavier bullets than yours (I do not
use anything less than 230gr), but are not ridiculous. For that reason
I prefer Unique.
I agree that it is not quite as clean burning as the others, but it is
easy to clean up. I guess that my point is, I can easily load Unique
down to Bullseye and 231 levels, but I cannot load Bullseye and 231 up
to Unique levels, especially with the heavier bullets. To me that means
Unique is more versatile.
BTW, I have also tried 2400 and Blue Dot in a .45ACP. Don't bother.
Also Red Dot, which is virtually the same as Bullseye and 231. OK for
light loads & light bullets.
Rosco Benson wrote:
> ...
> ...
Robert P. Firriolo
In rec.guns, Everett <ho...@phonet.com> wrote:
#BTW, I have also tried 2400 and Blue Dot in a .45ACP. Don't bother.
I disagree. While I prefer Win 231 and Unique, I have had very good
results with top-end loads using Blue Dot.
__________________
Robert P. Firriolo
**************************************************************
Don't Tread on Me!
"Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the
people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped."
- Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers - Number 29
***************************************************************
Fluid
Someone wrote:
# I do not use anything less than 230gr...I have also tried 2400 and Blue Dot
# in a .45ACP. Don't bother...
Actually, Blue Dot is an excellent powder in the .45 ACP, but with
lighter bullets than used above. It will usually give near the highest
velocity of all conventional powders with 185 and 200 grain bullets. It
does need to be loaded near max to burn well, but for highest velocity
it is at the top of the heap. Muzzle flash is blinding though.
Alliant 2400 is terribly dirty in most cartridges, and while I haven't
used it the .45 ACP, I don't intend to, expecting problems with
functioning of the pistol from the normally large volume of powder
residue.
Jay T
Marshall Richards
Yo,
You may want to consider Hodgdon Clays. It is about the cleanest I have ever
used and others on the rec. guns second that. Also, pretty quick burning. It
is no. 9 on the burning rate list in the Lee manual and Vihtavuori N3SF being
the fastest. W231 is no. 13. There are more in between, but don't think they
are quite as clean. Also, a little goes a long way. I use Clays to load
45acp, 9mm and soon 40 cal.
Good luck,
MR
Christopher Morton
On 25 Apr 1998 17:07:35 -0400, Marshall Richards <m...@smile.mv.com>
wrote:
#Yo,
#You may want to consider Hodgdon Clays. It is about the cleanest I have ever
Isn't it actually Hodgdon Universal Clays? I used to know somebody
else who liked it for .45ACP.
---
Gun control, the theory that Black people will be
better off when only Mark Fuhrman has a gun.
Check out:
http://super.zippo.com/~cmorton/home.htm
http://www.firstnethou.com/gunsite/moore.html
Steve Ellis
No, Clays and Universal Clays are two different powders...
Steve Ellis
NRA Member
Christopher Morton wrote:
# On 25 Apr 1998 17:07:35 -0400, Marshall Richards <m...@smile.mv.com>
# wrote:
#
# #Yo,
# #You may want to consider Hodgdon Clays. It is about the cleanest I have ever
#
# Isn't it actually Hodgdon Universal Clays? I used to know somebody
# else who liked it for .45ACP.
#
Charles Winters
Dear Christopher: I believe Hodgden makes three shotgun powders with
similar names: Clays, Universal Clays and Universal. I have a can of
Clays. Its very fast, somewhere between Bullseye and 231. Plus, its
very clean one of the new generation of clean powders. I compared it
with WST for light loads in .44 mag for CAS shooting, WST won out. My
Vaqueros just liked it better accuracy wise. WST is very similar to the
now discontinued 452AA. - CW
Christopher Morton wrote:
#
# On 25 Apr 1998 17:07:35 -0400, Marshall Richards <m...@smile.mv.com>
# wrote:
#
# #Yo,
# #You may want to consider Hodgdon Clays. It is about the cleanest I have ever
#
# Isn't it actually Hodgdon Universal Clays? I used to know somebody
# else who liked it for .45ACP.
#
# ---
# Gun control, the theory that Black people will be
# better off when only Mark Fuhrman has a gun.
#
# Check out:
#
# http://super.zippo.com/~cmorton/home.htm
# http://www.firstnethou.com/gunsite/moore.html
Duck
On 26 Apr 1998 21:18:21 -0400, Charles Winters <ch...@blarg.net>
wrote:
#Dear Christopher: I believe Hodgden makes three shotgun powders with
#similar names: Clays, Universal Clays and Universal.
Actually, Hodgdon makes Clays, Universal Clays, and International
Clays. Dean Duckett
Karl Dahm
Actually, the names of the three powder Hodgdon makes are
Clay
International Clays
Universal Clays
Listed from fastest to slowest.