extraction/feed problem Ithaca M 37

[pheasant16]

old 12 gauge. Buddy borrows it, I don't use it. I shoot a 16 gauge 37
that has never acted up. Fixed a magazine problem and thought I was home
free, then this popped up. Having a hard time making it consistently
misbehave to diagnose.

Seems to feed from magazine, fire, unload, and reload fine. Rapidly
fired 3 shots and performed flawlessly. I've only been able to make it
misfeed when an unfired round is chambered, and you cycle the action to
feed a different shell(or unload). Seems the extractor slips off(or has
never grabbed ??) leaving the unfired round in the chamber, and the
second shell is fed from the magazine getting stuck as the chamber is
still full. If you clear the second round, and get it to grab the round
in the chamber it will then (infrequently) extract the shell but not
release it once the bolt reaches the back of it's travel. So when the
magazine releases the next round it again won't fit as the extractors
are still holding the unfired round.

When buddy headed back to AK, I took it apart, changed safeties, and
decided to carry it the rest of the season to try and diagnose the issue.
Have not as yet stripped the bolt, but did take a can of brake cleaner
and sprayed the heck out of the top and bottom extractors. The
extractors themselves seem to have plenty sharp edges nothing visibly
worn. Minimal crud flushed out of the springs.
Had it re-blued a couple years ago, thought maybe the heavy oil may have
been the issue. Didn't seem to make any difference.

Ithaca would like me to mail it back; would prefer to avoid this headache.

Ideas on the mechanical issue only please.

Thanks

Mark

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[sta...@prolynx.com]

I've a number of 37s, haven't seen that problem, though. I've had a
lot of other problems with one, so I'm familiar with the design. What
you might do is to check headspace first. If the case head is sitting
too far forward, the extractor(s) might not be able to snap over the
rim. You can check the extractors without stripping the gun by
removing the barrel and seeing how snug they are on an empty hull.
Had one with a busted extractor, too, out of a pawn shop. Think bubba
tried to take the barrel off without opening the action. Check the
extractor cuts in the barrel, might be they're gunked up. Extractor
springs might be getting weak, depending on how old the gun is. If
the case isn't wiped off the bolt face at the end of bolt travel,
that's the carrier fork tines, they're the actual "ejector".
Sometimes a little pinching can help, don't get carried away.
Generally, at least with all of mine, the empties get pitched down and
forward about 6'-8'. If the shell in the magazine is getting released
before ejection, the action is mis-timed, haven't seen that.
Stripping the whole action is very easy, but requires pulling the
buttstock or at least loosening the stock bolt, needs a long
screwdriver, or a long 1/4" extension with an 8-point socket or drag
link bit After that, most everything just unscrews. Keep the
carrier pivot screws separated, they need to go back in the same holes
they came out of. I've had the trigger plate stripped, don't do it!!!

Another thing to check is the ammo. If the rims are too thin, or
otherwise out of spec, the extractors might not have enough to grab
onto.

Stan

[pheasant16]

Thanks for the ideas.

Do have new springs on the way already, but was hoping for a good list
(like you provided) of other things I can try.

Know the barrel cuts are clean. Headspace is something I hadn't
considered. This is post 855xxx so mebbe a new barrel might be the
ticket. Then I'd have to get a PolyChoke installed. Know Marble's sold
to a guy who still does 'em.

Buddy does use Win AA hulls stuffed pretty hot, but after firing haven't
seen the issue. Could be the mismatch between his old Winchester's bolt
and the Ithaca's could cause the problem of bent casing rims. That
could be why I only see it on occasion as I am testing it.

Now I've got ideas to play with this winter.

Thanks again.

Mark

PS: Trigger groups are easy; when you're a leftie, swapping safeties is
necessary, and here in ND we only use Remchesters. No one wants to work
on them "foreign" guns. LOL!! Even today when I talk about Ithaca I
still get the deer in the headlight stare from most folks. Thank
heavens for the internet. Would have had to retire the 16 long long ago
for lack of reloading supplies locally.

[sta...@prolynx.com]

Safeties are easy, it's when you start getting the hammer and such
out. The big Brownell's encyclopedia was a big help. If you're
shooting reloads, a shell resizer like MEC sells is very useful for
getting the heads back to factory specs. I've got a couple of others
that are identical in design to each other, but one's a Lachmiller and
one's a Pacific. Have a collet that squeezes the rim back into shape
while a ring die does the rest. From the paper hull era, also pokes
the head wad back into position so it doesn't get stuck in the barrel
and bulge it. Only two I've ever seen at the shows.

Shows also have Ithaca barrels, you have to keep your eyes open. Saw
one with an early serial on it, guy didn't care that it would only fit
that particular gun. Some dummy had separated the gun and spare
barrel.

If you get a new barrel with screw-in chokes, you can get a screw-in
Polychoke. Adds a little more flexibility. Of course we're talking
about spending twice what the gun would bring on the used rack. I've
gotten both items out of the Cabela's Bargain cave for half-price.
Barrel rack was depleted last week, though, in the Kearney one.


Stan

[Larry]

In article <jc52q7$rg2$1...@news.albasani.net>, sta...@prolynx.com says...

# If you get a new barrel with screw-in chokes, you can get a screw-in
# Polychoke. Adds a little more flexibility. Of course we're talking
# about spending twice what the gun would bring on the used rack. I've
# gotten both items out of the Cabela's Bargain cave for half-price.
# Barrel rack was depleted last week, though, in the Kearney one.

The only reason to put money into a 37 is if you are going to shoot it. I
have a 1957 version (pre interchangeable barrels) in excellent condition. I
shipped it to Ithaca a few years ago and they fitted a new vent rib screw-
choke barrel for $80 plus shipping, on a special offer. If I get around to it
I'll shorten the old 32" full choke barrel and make a slug barrel out of it.
It is still my favorite upland bird gun.

I vote for a complete disassembly and cleaning to start. American Rifleman
published a full disassembly/assembly procedure a few years ago. It's well
worth downloading the PDF at

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-5/2009529133626-
evitacamod37.pdf

http://tinyurl.com/7ykpysu

[Stanley Schaefer]

Must have been a hell of an offer, last time I looked, about 10 years
back, a new barrel from Ithaca was in the $400 range with another $150
for fitting to the receiver. For those not in the know, the early ones
had interrupted screw threads on the barrels which weren't timed, so
every barrel had to be fitted to the action. Takedown, but NOT
interchangeable. In the early '60s, Ithaca went to interchangeable
barrels, the interrupted threads were changed to V-shaped lugs with no
angle on the 'threads', looked the same to the uninitiated. So no
timing problems with that, just early barrels won't fit late receivers
and vice-versa.

I've got a pawn-shop rescue 37 that's from the second year of
production, had 50 years of weed seeds and crap in the action when I
stripped it, needed some remedial stockwork, too. But the action is
smooth, very smooth. Operates with just thumb and forefinger and a
twist of the wrist.

[Larry]

In article <jc8dbi$d3v$1...@news.albasani.net>, sta...@prolynx.com says...

# Must have been a hell of an offer, last time I looked, about 10 years
# back, a new barrel from Ithaca was in the $400 range with another $150
# for fitting to the receiver.

Yeah, when I got the offer it took me less than 24 hours to get the shotgun
to UPS. I couldn't believe the price, but if they were going to offer, I was
going to take them up on it. IIRC, I had signed up on their special offers
mailing list, and the offer came by email. I don't know if it ever was posted
on their web site. The interchangeable chokes are really nice, and with a
modern barrel I can shoot steel shot, albeit just 2-3/4" shells. I do wish I
had one of the newer ones with a 3" chamber, but you know what they say,
"Wish in one hand...." :)