Taurus .357 magnum explodes
Phillip Smith
steel .357 magnum 7 shot revolver. I had put less than 300 rounds
through this gun when it exploded and blew the entire top half of the
cylinder off. Fortunately I was unharmed. The force of the blast
detonated the only other live round in the gun plus fragments of the gun
blew holes in the ceiling and on each baffle (left and right) of the
lane in the range I was shooting in.
The ammo was Sellier & Bellot .357. I had noticed that it was hotter
than other brands I had used (PMC, Winchester, etc). It was also very
loud and the spent brass was difficult to eject by hand. The ejector
rod was stuck enough to make me use a hard surface for ejection a few
times.
I think Taurus is going to replace the gun and who knows if there is
anything that can be done about the ammo but it was the scariest thing
that's ever happened to me. There were many pictures taken, brass taken
and a report written up.
So the long and short is: Be careful using S & B .357 ammo until there
is an explanation.
Any suggestions or amplifications from the peanut gallery?
Thanks,
Phillip Smith
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Learn about rec.guns at http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/rec.guns
Vince Yakamavich
#1 Get on your hands and knees, and thank GOD you still have 2 complete
hands, and 2 working eyes.
#2 If it were me, I'd go tell Taurus to stick their replacement up their
a$$es.
*Supposedly* these things (guns) are "proofed" with like 20% overloads, and
should still hold together.
I double charged a Smith once; had to replace the cylinder (the case became
a permanent part of the cylinder. We couldn't budge it.) But the gun held
together.
Say what you will about Smith & Wesson, but IMHO, nobody builds a finer
revolver.
"Phillip Smith" <johnn...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:a76hi5$3hd$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
Tom Line
The S&B I've been shooting is very consistent from shot to shot and I'm
very confident in it. A company however that promises to fix everything
for free because they know their stuff breaks frequently isn't for me. I'd
recommend an objective expert evaluate the spent and unfired ammo you
have. And an objective expert evaluate the gun for defects in the metal
rather than the manufacturer of either.
Russ Frazier
stopped firing and thought a bit? Is Taurus 100% liable for what happened
next?
"Phillip Smith" <johnn...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:a76hi5$3hd$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
Bruce Brodnax
Phillip Smith <johnn...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
#At the range today I was shooting a new Taurus Tracker 627 stainless
#steel .357 magnum 7 shot revolver. I had put less than 300 rounds
#through this gun when it exploded and blew the entire top half of the
#cylinder off. Fortunately I was unharmed. The force of the blast
#[snip]
#The ammo was Sellier & Bellot .357. I had noticed that it was hotter
#than other brands I had used (PMC, Winchester, etc). It was also very
#loud and the spent brass was difficult to eject by hand. The ejector
#rod was stuck enough to make me use a hard surface for ejection a few
#times. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here was your first clue something was wrong...
#So the long and short is: Be careful using S & B .357 ammo until there
#is an explanation.
#
#Any suggestions or amplifications from the peanut gallery?
Yes: get the lot/production numbers from the side of the box & contact S&B
about a possible problem w/ their ammo! It's good that Taurus is making
good on it, but I suspect that most of the problem lies at S&B's feet...
Ciao,
B. Brodnax
Brice
tai fu
a cratered primer, I dont know if its because they load it too hot....
--
Email: rahi...@mail.utexan.edu
replace n with s to reply
---
Tai Fu
NAR# 76089 L1
Note: DO NOT reply with ta...@wt.net!!! It will be ignored!
RD Thompson
# At the range today I was shooting a new Taurus Tracker 627 stainless
# steel .357 magnum 7 shot revolver. I had put less than 300 rounds
# through this gun when it exploded and blew the entire top half of the
# cylinder off. Fortunately I was unharmed. The force of the blast
# detonated the only other live round in the gun plus fragments of the gun
# blew holes in the ceiling and on each baffle (left and right) of the
# lane in the range I was shooting in.
#
# The ammo was Sellier & Bellot .357. I had noticed that it was hotter
# than other brands I had used (PMC, Winchester, etc). It was also very
# loud and the spent brass was difficult to eject by hand. The ejector
# rod was stuck enough to make me use a hard surface for ejection a few
# times.
#
# I think Taurus is going to replace the gun and who knows if there is
# anything that can be done about the ammo but it was the scariest thing
# that's ever happened to me. There were many pictures taken, brass taken
# and a report written up.
#
# So the long and short is: Be careful using S & B .357 ammo until there
# is an explanation.
#
# Any suggestions or amplifications from the peanut gallery?
I would be a little leery of both until I learned which was really at
fault....the gun or the ammo. I have never had a problem with a Taurus, I
have had or still have several of them. I have never fired Sellier &
Bellot ammo. When you send it in to Taurus, ask them for a full report on
exactly what they found. They should replace it on warranty. Then take
the new firearm, shoot it with normal loads until you hear from Taurus and
them step up to the hotter loads if it checks OK.
Overall, Taurus makes excellent firearms, and I assume that Sellier &
Bellot make good ammo. Shit happens. No one is perfect.
--
Sleep well tonight.........
RD (The Sandman)
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rdsandman
Whether a gun is used to save a life or to illegally
take one, the only difference is whose hands are
in control of that gun. The gun itself is neutral.
FBC3
Was the word "Brazilian" in anybody's top three? Top ten?
Doc Muley
injuries or death in that situation is great.
I would contact the ammo manufacturer ASAP and inform them as to what happened.
Save any unfired ammo as well as any fired cases from the lot.
Make sure that you keep photos of the gun/paperweight for your records as well
as copies of all letters sent.
I can only imagine what that experience must have been like for you. I have
been fortunate enough to never have that happen to me. You are fortunate to
still have both hands and eyes.
Doc Muley
NiteOwl17
#Wow.
#
##1 Get on your hands and knees, and thank GOD you still have 2 complete
#hands, and 2 working eyes.
#
##2 If it were me, I'd go tell Taurus to stick their replacement up their
#a$$es.
#
#*Supposedly* these things (guns) are "proofed" with like 20% overloads, and
#should still hold together.
#
#I double charged a Smith once; had to replace the cylinder (the case became
#a permanent part of the cylinder. We couldn't budge it.) But the gun held
#together.
#
#Say what you will about Smith & Wesson, but IMHO, nobody builds a finer
#revolver.
#
I've seen the tops halves blown off 2 S&W revolvers. Seen one Colt as well. It
happens to them all.
Ken Marsh
Tom Line <tl...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote:
I'd
#recommend an objective expert evaluate the spent and unfired ammo you
#have. And an objective expert evaluate the gun for defects in the metal
#rather than the manufacturer of either.
Sounds good, but... who's going to pay for all of this independent
analysis?
Ken.
--
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... Can you say, "Unisys"? | WWW: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plink
<tl...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote:
#
#The S&B I've been shooting is very consistent from shot to shot and I'm
#very confident in it. A company however that promises to fix everything
#for free because they know their stuff breaks frequently isn't for me. I'd
#recommend an objective expert evaluate the spent and unfired ammo you
#have. And an objective expert evaluate the gun for defects in the metal
#rather than the manufacturer of either.
On the contrary, I'd think that a company that offers to fix their
stuff for free has a lot of faith in it not breaking. Those selling
junk tend to have the worst guarantees. It'd be easy to go bankrupt
having to fix a large number of products for free.
Mike
R.M.R.
I'm curies to see what company admits fault if either at all.I wouldn't
be surprised if this turns out to be like Firestone passing the blame to
Ford and visa versa.Luckily you probably only lost a pair of draws but I
would demand a conclusion however once you send them the firearm and or
ammunition you also lost your evidence.Yes thank god you didn't get hurt
so evidence may not be the right word but what if. Pictures are great
but a independent lab can only do so much with them.My 2 cents of advice
for any one that may get injured by a firearm or factory ammo is to hold
on to each and every piece.Yes you do have certain responsibilities and
if you feel the firearm or ammo is acting strange you should STOP
shooting at once.It's obvious by continuing to shoot the metal was
getting stressed and then "CaBoom" If something feels wrong it usually
is,however if no forwarning is given I would hold onto each and every
part.I hate frivolous lawsuits as much as the next guy but It's no fun
walking around blind or limbless due to someone else's incompetents.Also
this is a good eye opener (no pun intended) on why shooting glasses are
so valuable.Ya never know....
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum) U.S.A.
R.M.R.
Ray,
Tim McKnight
snip
#
# The ammo was Sellier & Bellot .357. I had noticed that it was hotter
# than other brands I had used (PMC, Winchester, etc). It was also very
# loud and the spent brass was difficult to eject by hand. The ejector
# rod was stuck enough to make me use a hard surface for ejection a few
# times.
I'm pleased that you were not harmed. See your paragraph above for BIG
clue.
Hard extraction is a sign of Excessive Pressure. Someone else said,
"if it don't seem right, stop and think", I think it bears repeating.
I know I need it repeated every so often.
#
# I think Taurus is going to replace the gun
That'll be mighty nice and make them one of the most customer friendly
companies in the universe.
#
# So the long and short is: Be careful using S & B .357 ammo until there
# is an explanation.
How about posting all the markings on the box? If any one else has the
same lot they need to know.
Be careful using ANY ammunition. Every company has had overloads, it
happens.
If the load is way louder, extracts with difficulty, smacks your hand,
etc, more than "usual" STOP NOW. Think about it and proceed with
caution.
#
# Any suggestions or amplifications from the peanut gallery?
#
Again I say I'm glad you were not harmed.
Tim
Tim McKnight
# I shot sellier and bellot 7.62x54r in a nagant one time, and every case has
# a cratered primer, I dont know if its because they load it too hot....
#
If you mean the primer looks like it flowed around the firing pin and
made a ridge, check the bore of the rifle for pits and or fouling, and
the firing pin hole for being larger than exceptable.
Suggest you not fire this rifle until these items are ruled
satisfactory.
Tim
Phillip Smith
In response to several people in this newsgroup I wanted to post the lot
number and exact specs on the ammo in question.
It is Sellier & Bellot 158 grain FMJ .357 magnum cartridges. Lot #
123-11.
If anyone has any of these please be careful and post any info you might
have about them.
Thanks,
Phil
Tim McKnight wrote:
> ...
Rick...@webtv.net
I purchased a new Taurus .45 pistol and it would not chamber a factory
cartridge.
After 4 trips back to Taurus, it still would not chamber a cartridge.
I had talked to their head gunsmith and the branch's president with no
satisfaction.
I finally called the president of Taurus in Brazil, who had it replaced.
It frequently jams and the ejected brass hits me in the forehead.
A friend has a Taurus revolver, and the cylinder frequently jams and
small parts keep falling off.
Several trips back to Taurus did not help.
I would rather have a S&W with no warranty than a Taurus with a lifetime
warranty.
Dennis Jenkins
is junk primers since you hear a lot of complaints about primer
piercing also.
The primer pockets are very shallow on some lots of this brass too.
Dennis Jenkins
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:09:27 +0000 (UTC), tmck...@ga.prestige.net
(Tim McKnight) wrote:
> ...
Spike43
#
#In response to several people in this newsgroup I wanted to post the lot
#number and exact specs on the ammo in question.
#
#It is Sellier & Bellot 158 grain FMJ .357 magnum cartridges. Lot #
#123-11.
#
#If anyone has any of these please be careful and post any info you might
#have about them.
#
#Thanks,
#
#Phil
#
I *seriously* doubt it has *anything* to do with your ammo. More likely, there
was a flaw in the steel used in the cylinder. It can, (and does), happen to all
gunmakers.
Spike
NRA (Endowment), GOA (Life),
MCRGO, SCOPE (Life), CRPA
Michigan Constituton, Art. I, S. 6 : Every Person has a right to keep or bear
arms for the defense of himself and the State.
Sawfish
#Phillip Smith <johnn...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<a76hi5$3hd$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
#snip
##
## The ammo was Sellier & Bellot .357. I had noticed that it was hotter
## than other brands I had used (PMC, Winchester, etc). It was also very
## loud and the spent brass was difficult to eject by hand. The ejector
## rod was stuck enough to make me use a hard surface for ejection a few
## times.
#I'm pleased that you were not harmed. See your paragraph above for BIG
#clue.
#Hard extraction is a sign of Excessive Pressure. Someone else said,
#"if it don't seem right, stop and think", I think it bears repeating.
#I know I need it repeated every so often.
##
## I think Taurus is going to replace the gun
#That'll be mighty nice and make them one of the most customer friendly
#companies in the universe.
##
## So the long and short is: Be careful using S & B .357 ammo until there
## is an explanation.
#How about posting all the markings on the box? If any one else has the
#same lot they need to know.
#Be careful using ANY ammunition. Every company has had overloads, it
#happens.
#If the load is way louder, extracts with difficulty, smacks your hand,
#etc, more than "usual" STOP NOW. Think about it and proceed with
#caution.
#
##
## Any suggestions or amplifications from the peanut gallery?
##
#Again I say I'm glad you were not harmed.
Me, too.
In another vein, does anyone suspect that having seven chambers in a
cylinder that in all likelihood is the same diameter as the original
design for six chambers is perhaps a contrinuting factor?
Aren't there some *8* shot .357s out there? Does this sound wise,
intuitively?
--
--Sawfish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Wha's yo name, fool?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Patterson
rec.guns wrote:
#Aren't there some *8* shot .357s out there? Does this sound wise,
#intuitively?
This is something I have questioned. I looked at a 625 Mountain Gun (7
shot) and wondered when the guy said...'the cylinder is the same size,
they just refigured the holes'.
Al
aren't enough to handle in-spec loads, but always better to have a fair
amount of extra steel. Shall I plug my favorite, over-built Ruger arms
again? Nah...
If I were a betting man, though, I'd wager that the final determination
is that there is a problem with these S&B loads. S&B might not admit
it though. (Unlike the good service you're getting from Taurus if they
do end up replacing the gun w/ no further questions asked.) When I lived
in Africa all we could get were S&B shotgun shells. They were a very
good price (especially for Africa where such items are usually costly)
but they kicked around my heavy Remington 870 Magnum like a mule,
especially for low-brass #8 dove loads. I would have thought they were
3" turkey loads. I was glad when my shipment of American-made ammo
arrived.
Cheers,
Al
Phillip Smith <johnn...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<a76hi5$3hd$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
> ...
L Blum
> ...
Welcome to the club.
I too have also recently had a new Taurus pistol explode the same
as yours in Nov.02 after firing 350 to 400 rounds. No one was hurt by
shear luck. Differance is mine was a 629TI to your stainless 627.
I was not going to reply to this thread because it is very hard for
me to even think about the replacement Taurus sent without becoming
furious. I think you and everone else should at the least have
knowledge that you are not the only one to have a very simliar
experance. I read 24 messages in this thread and I don't think it is
the ammo. I read somewhere that a magnum pistol is supposed to be
designed to handle the hottest loads plus or what's the point of
calling it a magnum. I now believe 7 chambers is too many for a magnum
and particularly for a pistol they are trying to sell for siloette
shooting.
I thought if I simply followed their instructions and sent them my
new pistol I would receive another and I could write a glowing
testmonial to the NRA's "Rifleman Magazine", who resently published a
glowing article on Taurus. Taurus will replace your gun, but don't
expect a brand new gun or one even close in value to new, unless you
are someone.
Sorry Taurus but you are not very customer oriented although you do
what you claim. Also sorry I purchased a Taurus.
SPP1
# Welcome to the club.
# I too have also recently had a new Taurus pistol explode the same
#as yours in Nov.02 after firing 350 to 400 rounds. No one was hurt by
#shear luck. Differance is mine was a 629TI to your stainless 627.
# I was not going to reply to this thread because it is very hard for
#me to even think about the replacement Taurus sent without becoming
#furious. I think you and everone else should at the least have
#knowledge that you are not the only one to have a very simliar
#experance. I read 24 messages in this thread and I don't think it is
#the ammo. I read somewhere that a magnum pistol is supposed to be
#designed to handle the hottest loads plus or what's the point of
#calling it a magnum. I now believe 7 chambers is too many for a magnum
#and particularly for a pistol they are trying to sell for siloette
#shooting.
# I thought if I simply followed their instructions and sent them my
#new pistol I would receive another and I could write a glowing
#testmonial to the NRA's "Rifleman Magazine", who resently published a
#glowing article on Taurus. Taurus will replace your gun, but don't
#expect a brand new gun or one even close in value to new, unless you
#are someone.
# Sorry Taurus but you are not very customer oriented although you do
#what you claim. Also sorry I purchased a Taurus.
#
I've known a few people in my club who have had their Taurus replaced (some for
pretty 'un-serious' reasons). With one exception, all had their handgun
replaced with a NIB gun of the *exact* same model. The one exception was
upgraded with his permission. They didn't have a blued PT-92 at that time, and
he accepted a stainless model.
Taurus has proven to me they're a stand up operation. I've bought many new cars
and had more than my share of major problems such as engine seizure (Pont),
incomplete cooling passages in the head (Chev), a bad crank bearing (Dodge),
total trans failures (Dodge and Ford). If that wasn't bad enought, I had
nothing but arguments and jury-rigged repairs and more resulting problems and
more arguments before finally getting satisfactory fixes. In one case, I spent
6 months in arbitration, in another, a year in court. I wish I could buy a
$20-31K car and be treated so well as well as Taurus treats their customers
Daniel
wrote in part:
# . . . I looked at a 625 Mountain Gun (7
#shot) and wondered when the guy said...'the cylinder is the same size,
#they just refigured the holes'.
#. . .
For what it's worth, given a sample size of (1) each and
micrometers/calipers having certification traceable to the bureau of
standards somewhere near Beijing (if at all):
S&W Model 10, cylinder diameter 1.448", thickness through "web" (thinnest
part from O.D. to chambers) 0.070" .
Taurus 627, cylinder diameter 1.528", thickness through web 0.062".
*But*: the cylinder latch cut on the 6-shot is milled through the thinnest
part of the web; because of the seven chambers in the Taurus cylinder, the
cut is *between* cylinders (no weakening of the web?). Perhaps a metals
engineer or gunsmith could comment?
--
Daniel
deltae...@usa.net