Best Pro-gun Movies
Bob Evans
: Anyone have any suggestions for good (or mediocre) pro-gun flicks? I already
: know Red Dawn. Any suggestions?
How about "Shane"? Alan Ladd's fine performance and his remark
of a gun being only a tool are classic.
Bob Evans
: Anyone have any suggestions for good (or mediocre) pro-gun flicks? I already
: know Red Dawn. Any suggestions?
Another. "The Wind and the Lion", a John Milius film.
Nick Warne
#Anyone have any suggestions for good (or mediocre) pro-gun flicks? I already
#know Red Dawn. Any suggestions?
Okay, this is going to make you barf, but how about "V"?
Nick Warne
Nick Warne
wa...@dial.eunet.ch
Tom Nagel
My vote goes to "Tremors" a funny sci fi film with Reba McIntyre
and three or four large alien worm-snakes.
Reba and her husband take one one of the critters with a whole
arsenal of assorted firearms. At the end the husband yells at the dead alien:
"Broke into the wrong damned rec-room didn't you?"
--
_________________
|
Tom Nagel /O\ Columbus, OH
------------------------------(___)------------------------------
Alexander M. Milstein
: : Anyone have any suggestions for good (or mediocre) pro-gun flicks? I already
: : know Red Dawn. Any suggestions?
Your evening TV news.
--
_____
Alexander M. Milstein, M.D.
<mi...@netaxs.com>
_____
Jim Nelson
Quigley Down Under
Any Steven Seagal movie
--
Jim Nelson aka <sni...@dtc.net>
or <jim.n...@twsubbs.twsu.edu>
bw...@tribeca.ios.com
#
# My vote goes to "Tremors" a funny sci fi film with Reba McIntyre
# and three or four large alien worm-snakes.
#
# Reba and her husband take one one of the critters with a whole
# arsenal of assorted firearms. At the end the husband yells at the dead alien:
#
# "Broke into the wrong damned rec-room didn't you?"
# --
# _________________
# |
# Tom Nagel /O\ Columbus, OH
# ------------------------------(___)------------------------------
#
#
#>>>
The movie itself was really good, but did you know that both Reba McIntyre and Michael Gross are anti-gun? Reba McIntyre
recently tried to do one of those gun buy back programs where guns would be trade in for tickets to one of her concerts. Not
suprisingly there was NOT ONE gun turned in and the program had to be scrapped. As for Michael Gross, he is listed on HCI's list
of celebrity supporters. You'd be suprised at some of the people who are members of that organization.
Blake E Martin
: rjs...@primenet.com (Rodney James Shepard) wrote:
: #Anyone have any suggestions for good (or mediocre) pro-gun flicks? I already
: #know Red Dawn. Any suggestions?
How about any James Bond movie. I don't think I've ever seen 007
mishandle a gun.
--
Blake Martin | "It's not my fault"
Eastern Illinois University | -Han Solo
Graduate Student - S.S.P. | The Empire Strikes Back
BE-Ma...@bgu.edu |
b w edginton
pro-gun movies. Most of these flics are entertaining....but portray guns
and gun users in a most unflattering and inaccurate way. Mass mayhem,
lousy marksmanship, terrible handling practices etc.
No wonder we are loosing the battle to retain some rights.(yeah, its the
same in aus).By the way, where can I buy some of those magnesium
projectiles they use...love the sparks.
Brian
hhutc...@cornell-iowa.edu
#
And what is wrong with the .25?
It seems to be the punching bag of pistol cartridges here...
jim
## Yes, but he did use a silenced .25 as his prefered armament ...
##
# And what is wrong with the .25?
# It seems to be the punching bag of pistol cartridges here...
Put it this way ... A rather dim co-worker of mine decided to
do himself in when the police arrived to question him about
some fight he had with a hooker. So, he put his .25 into
his mouth and shot himself in the brain. Then he had to
put it back in his mouth and fire again in order to achieve
the desired effect. Both bullets were recovered inside
the brain tissue, but only the second round did enough
damage to anything important to finish the job.
Of course, the police weren't even going to arrest
him ... but then he wasn't very bright, as I said.
A .25 is better than a rock, but at LEAST carry a
32 caliber.
Rodney James Shepard
## Yes, but he did use a silenced .25 as his prefered armament ...
##
# And what is wrong with the .25?
# It seems to be the punching bag of pistol cartridges here...
A .25 is like a three inch penis. I'm sure it works, most of the time, but
wouldn't you get something bigger if you could? :)
RJS
Careful boy, you'll anger the Overlords...
Peter H. Proctor
#From: jma...@iu.net (jim)
#Subject: Re: Best Pro-gun Movies
#Date: 1 Nov 1995 16:11:40 -0500
#hhutc...@cornell-iowa.edu wrote:
### Yes, but he did use a silenced .25 as his prefered armament ...
###
## And what is wrong with the .25?
## It seems to be the punching bag of pistol cartridges here...
# Put it this way ... A rather dim co-worker of mine decided to
# do himself in when the police arrived to question him about
# some fight he had with a hooker. So, he put his .25 into
# his mouth and shot himself in the brain. Then he had to
# put it back in his mouth and fire again in order to achieve
# the desired effect. Both bullets were recovered inside
# the brain tissue, but only the second round did enough
# damage to anything important to finish the job.
# Of course, the police weren't even going to arrest
# him ... but then he wasn't very bright, as I said.
# A .25 is better than a rock, but at LEAST carry a
# 32 caliber.
Uh, such anecdotal stories are fine, but I do not see how a 25 could not
do pretty lethal damage. There are reports from wartime of 30cal FMJ's
penetrating the skull and not being lethal. Depends on where you hit. A
shot straight up thru the roof of the mouth can be like giving yourself a
lobotomy, is quite survivable, and happens with rounds a lot bigger thatn 25
cal.
Fact is, most pistol rounds are marginal, it's just a matter of degree.
Recently here in Houston, a drunken DEA agent exchanged 9 mm shots with a bar
owner, who also shot him. I think a total of 7-9 shots resulted in hits.
Both parties recovered. If they had been shooting 25 acp, this would have
been presented as conclusive evidence of what a pipsqueek round this is.
I'll say it again: More persons die from 22 and 25 cal counds than
anything else. In my forensic pathology training I sayw a lot of them. And
yes, I know that this is because more persons are shot with such rounds-- I'm
just trying to make a point.
Further, the armed forces considers 58 ft.-lbs enough to cause
incapacitation ( I'll post the reference again, if you like ). They ought to
know.
The main thing is making a hole in something vital. The 25 cal does
this just fine. OTOH, the 25 cal does not have enough energy in its normal
forms to cause the chest/abdominal over pressure that sets off the atrial and
aortic baroreceptors to cause massive reflex vasodialatation. I.e., they
lack "stopping power". This can be remedied to some extent by using high
energy tramfer round such as magsafes, etc.
Peter H. Proctor, PhD, MD
Chris BeHanna
:> My vote goes to "Tremors" a funny sci fi film with Reba McIntyre
:>and three or four large alien worm-snakes.
:> Reba and her husband take one one of the critters with a whole
:>arsenal of assorted firearms. At the end the husband yells at the dead alien:
:>"Broke into the wrong damned rec-room didn't you?"
:-)
IMHO, the very best pro-gun movie, and one which illustrates
perfectly one of the things the 2nd amendment is *really* about, is _Red Dawn_.
--
Chris BeHanna Director, New Jersey Self Defense Coalition
NJ-RKBA List Maintainer P.O. Box 239
beh...@syl.nj.nec.com Milford, NJ 08848-0239
kore wa NEC no iken de gozaimasen.
Lon Horiuchi: Will Murder Women for Food PGP 2.6.1 public key available
Only in America can a homeless veteran sleep in a cardboard box while a draft
dodger sleeps in the White House.
Robert Plamondon
(Peter H. Proctor) writes:
# I'll say it again: More persons die from 22 and 25 cal counds than
#anything else. In my forensic pathology training I sayw a lot of them. And
#yes, I know that this is because more persons are shot with such rounds-- I'm
#just trying to make a point.
No doubt. And far more people die of lung cancer. But I wouldn't
try to incapacitate a mugger by offering him a cigarette. I'm looking
for an effect that is far more immediate, reliable, and total; the
firearms equivalent of dropping an anvil on his head. .25 ACP
is the firearms equivalent of hitting him in the face with a fish.
(I've GOT to stop watching Animaniacs with my kids!)
-- Robert
--
Robert Plamondon * High-Tech Technical Writing
36475 Norton Creek Road * Blodgett * Oregon * 97326
rob...@plamondon.com * (503) 453-5841
"I regret that I have but one * for my country." -- Nathan Hale
Rodney James Shepard
#foolishness in thinking that it will intimidate or arrogance in that you
#believe you can pull off head shots in high-stress situations. (not to
mention
#the legal no-nos involved in head shots.)
I was only aware of Tactical no-nos for head shots. what are the legal ones?
RJS
Don't let government do your job...
Keep mind control at home where it belongs.
MTV
Djpalke
is, I believe, Gena Rowlands, who uses her weapon to protect a child being
sought by the Mafia for a book he possesses that incriminates them. Gena
knows how to use her weapon, makes no apologies, and gets the job done.
What else could we ask for?
RWeinkauf
Anthony Perkins. Fonda is a former sheriff-turned-bounty-hunter who takes
neophyte sheriff Perkins under his wing reluctantly to teach him about
handling conflict and the use of a gun in conflict.
Fonda points out to Perkins such things as:
- Don't get drunk and carry a gun.
- Don't draw your gun unless you mean to use it.
- "If you have to shoot, then shoot to kill."
- Take that "extry" split second in a gun fight, and use your brain at
all times.
- Watch a man's hands, that's where the threat will come from.
- Don't bother with flashy moves, especially the ones copied from the
previous (dead) sheriff.
However, the actual gun handling is typically horrifying as Perkins
practices drawing his gun directly at Fonda when being instructed in gun
handling techniques, and he frequently covers Fonda with the muzzle of a
shotgun as he paces in the Sheriff's Office while the two wait for a lynch
mob. About the only thing he doesn't do is that stupid "Golly Gee"move
where the star uses the muzzle of a loaded handgun to scratch his forehead
and tilt back his hat in frustrated wonder...
But the movie is entertaining and worth the rental.
Rich
David Basiji
#As for the message offered, I like "The Tin Star" with Henry Fonda and
#Anthony Perkins. Fonda is a former sheriff-turned-bounty-hunter who takes
#neophyte sheriff Perkins under his wing reluctantly to teach him about
#handling conflict and the use of a gun in conflict.
I agree. I saw this one on American Movie Classics about two years
ago and noticed it right away for its good acting and good treatment
of firearms. I've had my VCR poised and ready to tape it ever since
but it hasn't been shown since that first time, to my knowledge.
Dave
--
David A. Basiji bas...@u.washington.edu
UW Bioengineering/Molecular Biotechnology/Pathology, take your pick.
I don't speak for the University of Washington.
Programmer's Warehouse
# rwei...@aol.com (RWeinkauf) writes:
# # As for the message offered, I like "The Tin Star" with Henry Fonda and
# # Anthony Perkins. Fonda is a former sheriff-turned-bounty-hunter who takes
# # neophyte sheriff Perkins under his wing reluctantly to teach him about
# # handling conflict and the use of a gun in conflict.
#
# I agree. I saw this one on American Movie Classics about two years
# ago and noticed it right away for its good acting and good treatment
# of firearms. I've had my VCR poised and ready to tape it ever since
# but it hasn't been shown since that first time, to my knowledge.
"The Tin Star" gets played quite a bit on AMC. I taped it earlier this year
and it played again just last week. I'm still waiting for them to screen
"Silver Lode" again. There's a western with an excellent political message.
jason
Bob McCormick
# IMHO, the very best pro-gun movie, and one which illustrates
# perfectly one of the things the 2nd amendment is *really* about, is _Red Dawn_.
Yeah, especially at the beginning, where they start looking for the 4473 forms.
A nice touch: When the older man is pulling his granddaughters (or nieces)
out of the cellar, I say two single-stage reloading presses in the background.
Surprising to see that much realism.
--
=-=-=-=-=-
Bob McCormick email: bob...@tcs.com
TCSI, Berkeley, California USA vox: +1 510-649-3881
http://www.tcs.com/SoftServ/OSP.html fax: +1 510-649-3600
boydk
That said, whats this jazz about head shots? Those of you thinking head
shots are a viable self defense plan, pick up in the gravest extreme or
(I think it's "the ayoob files") that other Massad Ayoob book with
forensic data in it. (Actually, while I'm plugging, pick them all up.)
He details a scene in the 60's where the NYPD stake out squad is watching
from inside some sort of stop and burgle convenience store.
Perp walks in, fires on shopkeep, officer steps out and fires point
blank at face. Using a larger caliber then .22 (sorry, details fuzzy)
empties revolver into face. This really angers the perp. Turns out,
because the head is one of the hardest bones in the body and because of
the high pressure area ahead of some bullet designs the shots, wich all
penetrated the skin, were deflected off around the bone but under the
skin and actually tunneled around the cheeks to exit the rear. Not
exactly a fast stop operation. Head shots? Forget it.
Boyd, all IMHO
On 4 Nov 1995 hhutc...@cornell-iowa.edu wrote:
# # Look at it this way: nobody is out preaching that .25 is in the running
# # for one-shot-stop champ. The .25 is an option for situations and modes of
# # dress in which strapping on the trusty .45 is not an option. It's better
# # than nothing. Selecting a .25 for your primary defense weapon is either
# # foolishness in thinking that it will intimidate or arrogance in that you
# # believe you can pull off head shots in high-stress situations. (not to mention
# # the legal no-nos involved in head shots.)
#
# Might I ask what the legal no-nos are exactly? If the other
# guy is coming at you with a gun, and you got said .25 ACP, why NOT go
# for whatever shot you can take?
#
#
#
Ron Christian x5545
##How about any James Bond movie. I don't think I've ever seen 007
##mishandle a gun.
#
#Yes, but he did use a silenced .25 as his prefered armament ...
Aside from arguments about the effectiveness of the .25;
I tend to get the Bond books and movies mixed up, but I seem to remember
that early in his career (right after Dr. No, I think) Bond was required
to tun in his Beretta .25 for a Walther PPK (in .32, I believe). As far
as I can remember, the suppressor was always optional.
Besides, the Bond character was a phenomenal shot and absolutely steady
under fire. These characteristics allow him to use any caliber he wants
to. :-) If anyone could do it, we wouldn't be standing in line for
the next Bond movie. :-)
Ron
--
Those who beat their swords into plowshears will plow for those who don't.
-- old blacksmith's proverb (told to me by an old blacksmith)
Chuck Cunningham
#David Basiji<bas...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
## rwei...@aol.com (RWeinkauf) writes:
## # As for the message offered, I like "The Tin Star" with Henry Fonda and
## # Anthony Perkins. Fonda is a former sheriff-turned-bounty-hunter who takes
## # neophyte sheriff Perkins under his wing reluctantly to teach him about
## # handling conflict and the use of a gun in conflict.
##
## I agree. I saw this one on American Movie Classics about two years
## ago and noticed it right away for its good acting and good treatment
## of firearms. I've had my VCR poised and ready to tape it ever since
## but it hasn't been shown since that first time, to my knowledge.
#"The Tin Star" gets played quite a bit on AMC. I taped it earlier this year
#and it played again just last week. I'm still waiting for them to screen
#"Silver Lode" again. There's a western with an excellent political message.
Another great gun film is the new Tombstone. Great firearms, well
done film overall. Certainly shows useage as a deterrent to crime.
Intravenous Demerol Experience
Chuck Cunningham (Ch...@pe.net) wrote:
: Another great gun film is the new Tombstone. Great firearms, well
: done film overall. Certainly shows useage as a deterrent to crime.
Yes, it is a good, enjoyable film, but I didn't think it was that
great of a pro-gun movie. It did show that gun bans don't do anything
except make the law-abiding helpless. And the best line in the world,
Doc Holliday saying "How very cosmopolitan" when the guy gets thrown
in the street from the bar and shot.
But there was that blurb at the start about "Western towns having
murder rates above current inner-cities". And the thing that got me
the most was the Wyatt character saying essentially
"The law's coming to get you", then hunting down and killing the
entire Cowboys gang without judge or jury.... Kinda a bad precedent IMHO.
Going to go look up some of those others, though...
--
Scot A. Johnson "Ass Kicking Pacifist" RPI Paintball Club TIP#175
joh...@rpi.edu Don't Tread on Me Heck Temperature: Hot, Damn Hot
"Never used to be so tired, Never used to be so anxious,
Never said `used to be' so much" -- "Negation", +Live+
Chris BeHanna
:># IMHO, the very best pro-gun movie, and one which illustrates
:># perfectly one of the things the 2nd amendment is *really* about, is _Red
:># Dawn_.
:>Yeah, especially at the beginning, where they start looking for the 4473
:>forms.
:>A nice touch: When the older man is pulling his granddaughters (or nieces)
:>out of the cellar, I say two single-stage reloading presses in the background.
:>Surprising to see that much realism.
In a recent issue of Dillon's _Blue Press_, there was an article about
_Red Dawn_'s director, John Milius, touring Dillon's facility. At one point,
Milius was walking through a room where Dillon kept a large gun collection.
Milius examined several of the guns in the collection, handling them safely
and talking about them and their history, and got every detail right, including
some tidbits of which Mike Dillon himself wasn't aware. John Milius is a bona
fide "gun person", so the level of detail in _Red Dawn_ is not at all
surprising to me.
If anyone knows of any other Milius movies worth seeing, I'd sure
like a "must see" list.
Aside: Clint Eastwood's western from last year (_Unforgiven_? I
can't remember the title) clearly showed the dangers of disarming the public.
Gene Hackman's character, the local chief LEO, mandated no guns in town and
promptly became a raving tyro. No one could oppose him--they were all
unarmed.
Bob McCormick
# From: beh...@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
# Date: 8 Nov 1995 18:03:29 -0500
<snip>
# If anyone knows of any other Milius movies worth seeing, I'd sure
# like a "must see" list.
From the Internet Movie Database, http://ballet.cit.gu.edu.au/Movies/
Seaching for "Milius, John" as "All Occupations"
John Milius
Biographical information.
Born 11 April 1944
Filmography...
1.Clear and Present Danger (1994) 1994 (writer)
2.Motorcycle Gang (1994) (TV) (director)
3.Geronimo: An American Legend (1993) 1993 (writer)
4.Flight of the Intruder (1990) 1990 (director) (writer)
5.Farewell to the King (1989) 1989 (director) (writer)
6.Extreme Prejudice (1987) 1987 . Note: (story) (writer)
7.Red Dawn (1984) 1984 (director) (writer)
8.Lone Wolf McQuade (1983) 1983 . Note: (spiritual advisor) (other crew)
9.Uncommon Valor (1983/I) (producer)
10.Conan the Barbarian (1981) 1981 (director) (writer)
11.1941 (1979) 1979 . Note: (story) (writer) . Note: (executive) (producer)
12.Apocalypse Now (1979). (SAM:AAN) (writer)
13.Big Wednesday (1978) aka Summer of Innocence (1978) 1978 (director) (writer)
14.Wind and the Lion, The (1975) 1975 (director) (writer)
15.Melvin Purvis: G-Man (1974) (TV) 1974 (writer)
16.Dillinger (1973) 1973 (director) (writer)
17.Magnum Force (1973). Note: (also story) (writer)
18.Jeremiah Johnson (1972) 1972 (writer)
19.Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean, The (1972) (writer)
20.Evel Knievel (1971) 1971 (writer)
21.Devil's 8, The (1969) 1969 (writer)
Director's Trademarks:
- Frequently casts Gerry Lopez.
Note titles in quotes (") are TV series.
KROH
In article <47rd4g$6...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, m95...@mtek.chalmers.se (Mats T
Persson) writes:
# Which rifle is more accurate the M38 or M96?
The M96 has its lowest sight setting at 300 meters, so it shoots about 10"
high at 100 yards. The M38 has settings starting at 100 meters, which I
have found to be spot-on at 100 yards when using military ammo and 1 1/2"
high when using my preferred handload. I call that perfect, as well as
extremely handy. I have fired about fifty M96's and a dozen M38's, and
NEVER have had one be even the slightest bit inaccurate (no matter what it
looked like on the exterior). The M38's are a bit easier to use, though
(and certainly carry). Dennis Kroh, Empire Arms
KROH
IV) writes:
#Anyone know what the Makarov dropped-gun safety is like? I'd also
#: #carry (well, not really carry... living in LA) chambered, hammer down.
That is the only way to carry a Makarov. {8^)}
Actually, if it really worries you, you can keep the safety in the
"decock" position, which blocks the firing-pin and would make it
impossible to go off, even if dropped from an airplane. Of course, you'd
have to flick the safety lever down before you shoot it, but it'd
certainly be safe while carrying it!
WILLIAM DAVID HAWKINS
In a previous article, kr...@aol.com (KROH) says:
#In article <47tpp2$a...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, se...@izzy.net (Sanford E. Walke
#IV) writes:
#
##Anyone know what the Makarov dropped-gun safety is like? I'd also
##: #carry (well, not really carry... living in LA) chambered, hammer down.
I think my .380 is designed so that the hammer can't touch the firing pin
unless the trigger is pulled back all the way. I wouldn't worry about
an AD if I dropped it. Try it with an *unloaded* gun. Cock it and drop the
hammer. Then push on the hammer. Now pull the trigger back and again push
on the hammer. It should go further now and touch the firing pin. If not,
see a 'smith.
--
******>>>>> William David Hawkins <<<<<**********
******>>>>> Packet N7...@KC7Y.AZ.USA.NOAM <<<<<********
******>>>>> Phone 602-890-1296 <<<<<<********
***>>> Whatever can go wrong...will. At the worst possible moment <<<***
Rob Myers - SE Sun Columbia MD
# in the street from the bar and shot.
#
My favorite line is when Johnny Ringo was calling Wyatt out, Doc stood and said
" I'm your Huckleberry, that's just my game", I must have replayed that a thousand
times.
Does anyone know where that saying came from? Another saying was "Your a daisey if do"
anyone know where that one came from?
Shoot Straight
Rob
Ridefried
your way up as you repeat ... finishing in the head only if he's still up.
Henry
ride...@aol.com
Joe Devos
#In article <47m7j0$2...@xring.cs.umd.edu> Bob McCormick (bob...@tcs.com) wrote:
#:>In article <47bv8f$8...@xring.cs.umd.edu> beh...@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:
# If anyone knows of any other Milius movies worth seeing, I'd sure
#like a "must see" list.
#Chris BeHanna Director, New Jersey Self Defense Coalition
#NJ-RKBA List Maintainer P.O. Box 239
#beh...@syl.nj.nec.com Milford, NJ 08848-0239
#kore wa NEC no iken de gozaimasen.
#Lon Horiuchi: Will Murder Women for Food PGP 2.6.1 public key available
#Only in America can a homeless veteran sleep in a cardboard box while a draft
#dodger sleeps in the White House.
I could be wrong, but I think Milius co-wrote the screenplay for "Apocalypse
Now" with Coppola.
i also think he may have had something to do with "the Deer Hunter" but I
think that is wrong. It's been a while since I've seen these two, but
anytime I see Milius' name I do anticipate a good movie.
Joe
boydk
operation. Head shots? Forget it." I really didnt mean there were -no-
circumstances where I wouldnt risk a head shot with a .25. It just doesnt
strike me as a reliable plan.
What I did mean, was that in the context of a nice cozy internet
discussion about how to defend ourselves, counting on a .25 because you
might be able to hit somebodys eye socket doesnt strike me as a winning
option (for reasons well illuminated by Ayoobs anecdote IMHO).
Hope I've made myself more clear (lemme know), next time I'll try for one
shot clarity ; )
Boyd (make mine a Glock 23) Kneeland
AKIA_
Myers - SE Sun Columbia MD) writes:
#
## And the best line in the world,
## Doc Holliday saying "How very cosmopolitan" when the guy gets thrown
## in the street from the bar and shot.
Hi,
I'm trying to find out the name of the Made for TV Movie that was based
on the Athens Tennessee Militia incident (1946...comming up on the 50th
anniversary).
since a lot of the participants in the actual event are still alive the
Movie was set in Texas instead of Tennessee....the whole thing was
about the local political Boss (the sheriff.....part of Boss Crump's
Memphis organization) trying to steal the election (by literally
beating voters, stealing ballot boxes, etc) when faced with a fairly
certain victory by a slate of Veterans just back from WW-II. In
response the Militia (the citizenry) got they're guns, broke into the
National Guard Armory for machineguns and heavy weapons, and threw the
government criminals out of the county.
ttyl
John D. Boggs
drin...@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Terrell D. Drinkard) writes:
#
#What I'd like to find now are examples of really bad gun handling or
#totally inauthentic protrayals of shooters or firearms. Films and
#books both.
#
#
In at least 2 of the last three books I've read the protagonist
releases the safety on his Glock. Two titles in which I remember this
happening are _Spencerville_ by Nelson DeMille, and _One Man's Law_ by
John Clarkson. [_Spencerville_ is an otherwise excellent book, _One
Man's Law_ is crap.]
--
John D. Boggs \ The great thing about human language is
j...@robigo.winternet.com \ that it prevents us from sticking to
\ the matter at hand. -Lewis Thomas
d...@acpub.duke.edu
#What I'd like to find now are examples of really bad gun handling or
#totally inauthentic protrayals of shooters or firearms. Films and
#books both.
#Can anyone out there give me a hand?
Ed McBain is fond of putting safeties on the revolvers in his books. And in
every Stephen King book in which a firearm is used, there will be a technical
error; in fact, this is so consistent that I sometimes suspect it might be
deliberate.
Worst movie? Without doubt, "Die Hard 2." So many technical errors that I
lost count, and I didn't even watch the whole thing. E-mail for more details.
Also of particular notice for its abject stupidity is the third "Lethal
Weapon" movie, in which Mel Gibson kills a bad guy by shooting alleged
9mm AP rounds through the blade of a full-size bulldozer.
A common belief among almost all TV and movie directors these days is that
bullets hitting the sheet metal of a car body will produce sparks. Sorry, but
no.
Similar examples are plentiful, and sad proof that we live in a culture that
is almost firearms-illiterate.
Oh, for an example of good cinematic treatment of the effects of unsafe gun
handling, see John Travolta in "Pulp Fiction."
Cheers,
David Roberson
d...@acpub.duke.edu
Christopher Murphy
unless I'm mistaken) there's a mention of the story's hero
taking his wife out to a range to shoot his Charter Arms .44
Special. It says that he started teaching her using mild
handloads, then "regular service ball." Anyone ever heard of
"regular service ball" ammo for a .44 Spl.? :)
Regards,
CJPM
* Christopher J. P. Murphy * UMAB School of Medicine 1999 *
* PO Box 144 * Hampstead, MD 21074 * cmu...@umabnet.ab.umd.edu
"And if you take your pick, be careful how you choose it.
Sometimes it's hard to feel it bite." -- R. Plant
Bruce....@att.com
#
#A common belief among almost all TV and movie directors these days is that
#bullets hitting the sheet metal of a car body will produce sparks. Sorry, but
PLUS, about half the handgun shots produce "rifle shots in canyons
echoes" :-(
BDW
Johan Coetzer
##What I'd like to find now are examples of really bad gun handling or
##totally inauthentic protrayals of shooters or firearms. Films and
##books both.
##
Here are a few of my favorites:
In Demolition Man, Sylvester Stallone shoots up Wesley Snipes and some
other bad guys with what looks like a Beretta 92. After running out of ammo, he duly
pops in a new magazine, but will somebody please explain to me what happens next?
The slide is not locked backed after he runs out - it is still in battery. After
inserting a fresh magazine, he racks the slide back and an empty shell pops out!
Also in the same movie, Stallone goes looking for Snipes right at the
start of the movie. Also carrying a Beretta 92 (I may be wrong - I didn't
tape this clunker and watch it in slo-mo to make sure, so feel free to correct
me on this) he skulks around. When he finally finds said baddie, he enters
into a conversation. When Snipes doesn't want to tell him where he keeps the
hostages hidden, Stallone cocks the hammer on his piece. Very threatening!
But why would he do so only now? If he wanted the precision/accuracy (or whatever)
of a single-action shot, why only now? Why not long before?
All of the above makes me wonder what old Sly gets up to in Assasins, where the
whole plot revolves around guns. I'll just have to wait a few years for it reach
TV. Given Stallone's track record, I can spend the money on better things, like
ammo for target practise :-)
On this point, Hollywood really seems to love showing guys cocking their guns
to bring a point across when trying to scare/threaten somebody. Even single-action
pistols, i.e. Colt M1911, Browning HP, that are actually useless for shooting with
the hammer down. John Travolt seems to a bit of this in Pulp Fiction. He holds a
pistol (Colt GM, I think) and only when the conversation turns really nasty does he
cock the hammer. Which means that all the time before this, his weapon was useless!
Other favorite in this regard is the pump-action shotgun or any revolver. How many
times do we see some hero pointing such a weapon and then racking the slide or
cocking the hammer to show that he really means business? Of course the sound editor
sees to it that we get to hear a really loud threatening noise when he does that.
The list just goes on and on. In Skindeep (the comedy that glows in the dark), John
Ritter's wife threatens to blow him away with his own 38 snubbie, but when she pulls
the trigger, nothing happens. Only a loud click. He is then able to retrieve the
weapon from her. Afterwards he tells a friend that he owes his life to the fact
that he alway keeps the first chamber empty! Now what does he mean by that? If
he leaves the chamber under the hammer empty for fear of setting off a round when
dropping the reveolver, pulling the DA trigger will rotate the cylinder bringing
the next (loaded) chamber into action. If that is not the case, why would anyone
want to reduce a five-shooter to a four-shooter by leaving one chamber empty?
The mind boggles.
One guy that seems to know his way around is Al Pacino. He really does an impressive
job of field-stripping and re-assembling his 1911 in Scent of a Woman. In Carlito's
Way, when he runs out of ammo, the slide on his pistol actually locks back. He then
finds out that he doesn't have another clip (sorry - magazine) on him, since he
grabbed the piece from an adversary. But then he presses theslide release and then
racks the slide back again only for the slide to lock back again. he then presses
the release again and tells his opponents that he has reloaded! They actually buy
it, though.
Johan Coetzer
-------------------------------
Disclaimer: I speak for myself.
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese
##bullets hitting the sheet metal of a car body will produce sparks. Sorry, but
#>PLUS, about half the handgun shots produce "rifle shots in canyons
#echoes" :-(
While we're on the subject of the moronic media and how they misrepresent
guns --
This reminded me of a study I heard of where adults listened to the
sound of a real handgun being fired adn the TV sound effect one after
another, and most concluded that the sound effect was real.
Ah, the delights of living in a country where the babble box rules
supreme and reality takes a back seat to the latest episode of "Miami
Vice" . . .
Take care,
Janis
========================================================================
cor...@netcom.com http://www.io.com/user/cortese/
========================================================================
"Termiter's argument that God is His own grandmother generated a
surprising amount of controversy among Church leaders, who on the one
hand considered the argument unsupported by scripture but on the other
hand were unwilling to risk offending God's grandmother."
-- Len Cool, "American Pie"
========================================================================
Max A Krinberg
#Worst movie? Without doubt, "Die Hard 2." So many technical errors that I
#lost count, and I didn't even watch the whole thing. E-mail for more
details.
For some reason I did not notice too many errors, maybe because I like Bruce
Willis :-)
Would love to find out though.
#A common belief among almost all TV and movie directors these days is that
#bullets hitting the sheet metal of a car body will produce sparks. Sorry,
but
#no.
#
Another thing, a common thought is that cars blow up, if shot with 5-10 pistol
rounds... I don't think so.
#Cheers,
#David Roberson
#d...@acpub.duke.edu
#
--Max
Graeme Caselton
# In article <48d084$9...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, <d...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
# #
# #A common belief among almost all TV and movie directors these days is that
# #bullets hitting the sheet metal of a car body will produce sparks.
Sorry, but
# PLUS, about half the handgun shots produce "rifle shots in canyons
# echoes" :-(
#
# BDW
I think the sight of a 'silencer' screwed onto the front of a 2" snubby
revolver in .357
calibre with no recoil (and normally 9 or 10 shots) is about the funniest seen.
Graeme.
--
My other sig is a Ferrari
Chad M Cloud
#From: Johan Coetzer <coet...@telkom03.telkom.co.za>
#Subject: Re: Worst Gun Movies (Was Re: Best Pro-gun Movies)
#Date: 16 Nov 1995 10:17:08 -0500
###What I'd like to find now are examples of really bad gun handling or
###totally inauthentic protrayals of shooters or firearms. Films and
###books both.
###
The best movie when it comes to bad firearm handling has to be National
Lapoons "Lethal Weapon, Part Dux", with Emilo Estavis. Everytime a gun is
shown, you hear the sound of a slide being racked even if the actor does not
rack the slide. Clearly the movie directors are making fun of their
counterparts. Its been awhile since I saw the movie but I seem to remember
Emilo has some fancy weapon handling that made Mel Gibsons rolling on the
ground look minor.
Chad
Johan Coetzer
#Worst movie? Without doubt, "Die Hard 2." So many technical errors that I
#lost count, and I didn't even watch the whole thing. E-mail for more details.
I concur. I remember from this clunker how the Bruce Willis hero
single-handedly manages to take out a bunch of bad guys (with automatic weapons)
with his trusty 9mm. And this after these baddies wiped out a whole SWAT team
armed with M16's!
Or how about when he tells the chief of airport security about how professional
these bad guys are. About how they used these magic plastic Glocks which cannot
be detected on a metal detector. What about the metal barrel (and all the other
metal thingies inside) then?
I would love to know about other examples that you know of.
Johan Coetzer
"I speak for myself"
David Ryujiro Olsen
movie is under from a machine gun or other automatic weapons, you see
dirt, sparks, etc, flying up around their feet. As if the person behind
the weapon is firing at their toes and trying to make them dance like in
a cartoon. The rounds fired from a weapon laying down "realistic" grazing
fire would hit the ground 100 or so meters behind the target. I guess
they can't think of another way to show the rounds, but I always thought
it was pretty weak.
Dave Olsen
______________________________________________________________________________
dr...@acpub.duke.edu http://www.duke.edu/~dro1/
________________________________________________________________________________
Richard Kinch
: What I'd like to find now are examples of really bad gun handling or
: totally inauthentic protrayals of shooters or firearms. Films and
: books both.
My favorite is that "peeyoop" sound of Hollywood-silenced firearms.
Totally inauthentic, but universal in movies and TV! What can be the
source of this hegemonistic silliness?
My second movie peeve is the "big nod" death rattle; at least that is a
cliche'd false-portrayal. Gunshot-induced deaths are usually a bit more
realistic now. I suppose film time is too precious for lingering, slow
deaths from bleeding or for slowly-subsiding seizures.
RWeinkauf
Krinberg) writes:
##
#Another thing, a common thought is that cars blow up, if shot with 5-10
#pistol
#rounds... I don't think so.
#
And I'm sure many of us saw Timothy Dalton last night as Bond on TBS. I
love it when they're fighting in the bar, and his lovely sidekick with the
shotgun stands 4 feet from the wall and fires. It blows a 3-foot diameter
hole in the wall! Hah! I wish they had tried that for real on the set
and tried to crawl through the 3-inch hole it really would have made...
Rich
Schofield6
with silencers. It's a hard sound to describe, but I'm sure someone knows
what I mean.
I remember watching some movie where this guy put a screw-on silencer on a
revolver. The area around the cylinder wasn't covered up and the gun was
"whisper quiet".
Brad Thone
<coet...@telkom03.telkom.co.za> wrote:
# ##What I'd like to find now are examples of really bad gun handling or
# ##totally inauthentic protrayals of shooters or firearms. Films and
# ##books both.
# ##
#
# Here are a few of my favorites:
#
How about "Captain Ron"?
Around 20 minutes into the movie, a guy with (clearly) a bolt-action rifle
fires at Kurt Russell. A couple of guys run up to the guy with the rifle,
and wrestle the gunman for the rifle. The rifle goes off several times
during the struggle.
That gunman must've been pretty damn dexterous to keep chambering rounds
while struggling with a couple of guys.....
Brad.
Brad Thone
bth...@spgate.corp.sbc.com
Phil Ngai
hero from the movies magically enters the real world. He tries
shooting an escaping car and is quite disappointed when it doesn't
burst into flames and explode at the first shot.
--
Treating crime as a disease is as sensible as treating disease as a crime.
Mike Teague
: A common belief among almost all TV and movie directors these days is that
: bullets hitting the sheet metal of a car body will produce sparks. Sorry, but
: no.
I've never shot at cars, but I was shooting my friends MAK90 at a hill
side rapid-fire style at night, and saw a couple richochets straight up,
leaving sparks, and tracing somewhat... I suspect they were steel cored
bullets hitting rocks...
No, I wasn't shooting blindly at mountains.. This was at our "range", up
in the mountains, and the hillside I was shooting at was our "backstop"...
--
Mike Teague
yng...@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~yngwie
John D. Boggs
Johan Coetzer <coet...@telkom03.telkom.co.za> writes:
#d...@acpub.duke.edu wrote:
##Worst movie? Without doubt, "Die Hard 2." So many technical errors
##that I lost count, and I didn't even watch the whole thing. E-mail
##for more details.
#Or how about when he tells the chief of airport security about how
#professional these bad guys are. About how they used these magic
#plastic Glocks which cannot be detected on a metal detector. What
#about the metal barrel (and all the other metal thingies inside) then?
I believe that he said they were using Glocks with a ceramic (or was
it porcelain?) barrel. I assumed that, this being fiction, it was a
fictional gun. Have you ever read science fiction? They do this sort
of thing all the time in it.
Sanford E. Walke IV
: And I'm sure many of us saw Timothy Dalton last night as Bond on TBS. I
: love it when they're fighting in the bar, and his lovely sidekick with the
: shotgun stands 4 feet from the wall and fires. It blows a 3-foot diameter
: hole in the wall! Hah! I wish they had tried that for real on the set
: and tried to crawl through the 3-inch hole it really would have made...
: Rich
I just watched the new Bond movie GoldenEye last night. I'd like to find
the 300 round AK magazines that look like 30 rounders that everyone seemed to
have. Take a look at the bizarre grip that Bond uses on his pistol on
the poster, too.
-----
Sandy se...@izzy.net
"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out
right ban, picking up every one of them... 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all
in,' I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
--U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), "60 Minutes," February 5, 1995
James Keane
: In article <48i56k$4...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,
: ##Worst movie? Without doubt, "Die Hard 2." So many technical errors
: ##that I lost count, and I didn't even watch the whole thing. E-mail
: ##for more details.
: #Or how about when he tells the chief of airport security about how
: #professional these bad guys are. About how they used these magic
: #plastic Glocks which cannot be detected on a metal detector. What
: #about the metal barrel (and all the other metal thingies inside) then?
: I believe that he said they were using Glocks with a ceramic (or was
: it porcelain?) barrel. I assumed that, this being fiction, it was a
: fictional gun. Have you ever read science fiction? They do this sort
: of thing all the time in it.
No, the dialogue was something like "They had Glocks. Very expensive, and
they don't show up on metal detectors." No mention of anything special
about the barrels. I'l bet whoever wrote that line believed it, too. If
they wanted to use a fictional gun, they could have simply given it a
fictional name. I agree with the original poster who saw this as a gross
error, and evidence of the ignorance of those who write screenplays.
Regards,
J. Sean Keane
Rock McMillan
BLUE STEEL, where she flips out the cylinder of her trusty Smith
to check to see if it was loaded, the camera zooms in on the
cartridges in the cylinder and all of the primers are punched,
she closed the cylinder and heads for the gunfight.
Allen Home
with Kurt Russell, Issac Hayes ( as the DUKE!),Donald Plesence as the Prez.
I wish I had revolvers and Mac 9 that never ran out of ammo! They must have
little magic elves manufacturing the ammo in the gun.
Issac Hayes and Dick Clark never seem to age.
The Duke is "A number One!"
..ah
Luke Sjulson
Has anyone seen Goldeneye yet? I saw that yesterday--aside from
horrible gun-handling (finger on the trigger all the time), they show the
same short-barreled AK-47 THREE TIMES, nine years apart. Not to mention
how all the bad guys miss, but Bond and his PPK (with mysterious
400-round capacity) never misses. Or how the KGB agent recognizes the
PPK by the sound of the hammer being cocked and recognizes Bond. Overall
a good movie, but _slightly_ exaggerated...
Tsunami
Bob Evans
: d...@acpub.duke.edu wrote:
: #Worst movie? Without doubt, "Die Hard 2." So many technical errors that I
: #lost count, and I didn't even watch the whole thing. E-mail for more details.
: I concur. I remember from this clunker how the Bruce Willis hero
: single-handedly manages to take out a bunch of bad guys (with automatic weapons)
: with his trusty 9mm. And this after these baddies wiped out a whole SWAT team
: armed with M16's!
: Or how about when he tells the chief of airport security about how professional
: these bad guys are. About how they used these magic plastic Glocks which cannot
: be detected on a metal detector. What about the metal barrel (and all the other
: metal thingies inside) then?
: I would love to know about other examples that you know of.
I liked the Duke (John Wayne) alot, but in the movie "Comanchero's"
which supposedly took place about 10 yrs after the Alamo (circa 1836),
the Duke is carrying his SAA Colt 1973 model revolver and a Winchester
1892 carbine. All this in the 1840's!! Talk about rewriting history ...
: Johan Coetzer
: "I speak for myself"
Joseph N. Hall
#Or how about when he tells the chief of airport security about how professional
#these bad guys are. About how they used these magic plastic Glocks which cannot
#be detected on a metal detector. What about the metal barrel (and all the other
#metal thingies inside) then?
The metal detector I went through the other day at Sky Harbor airport
was cranked up so high that the *eyelets* in my shoes set it off.
Think a Glock barrel could get through?
Although that very same detector in the pre-alert days didn't catch
a 4" Cold Steel lockback that I inadvertently left in my jacket
pocket. (I got on the plane, felt around in my pocket for something,
then ... "oh, wow")
========================================================================
Joseph N. "Moof-in'" Hall Proprietor, V V sssss
jos...@5sigma.com 5 Sigma Productions V V s s
P.O. Box 6250 software, multimedia, original music V V s s
Chandler AZ 85224 http://www.5sigma.com V sss
st...@oak.circa.ufl.edu
In short . . . there was never such an animal. Also the major mass of metal on
a glock is the slide, not the barrel.
Mike
jbud...@div720.gsfc.nasa.gov
I>
# : Has anyone seen Goldeneye yet? I saw that yesterday--aside from
# : horrible gun-handling (finger on the trigger all the time), they show the
# : same short-barreled AK-47 THREE TIMES, nine years apart. Not to mention
# : how all the bad guys miss, but Bond and his PPK (with mysterious
# : 400-round capacity) never misses. Or how the KGB agent recognizes the
# : PPK by the sound of the hammer being cocked and recognizes Bond. Overall
# : a good movie, but _slightly_ exaggerated...
THe only good gun handling i saw in the movie was at the END when the marines
all pop up from their their hides. If you notice NONE of them have their
fingers on the triggers. They used real marines. I did see bond changing
magazines a few times, though...
Allan Best
: In article <DHzww...@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>,
: Terrell D. Drinkard <drin...@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> wrote:
: #What I'd like to find now are examples of really bad gun handling or
: #totally inauthentic protrayals of shooters or firearms. Films and
: #books both.
: One example I recall vividly is in "Blazing Saddles". In Hedley Lamarr's
: recruitment line for bad guys, he fires his two-shot derringer three
: times without reloading. (once, long pause, twice).
That was funny!
: --
: Alan Denney al...@informix.com
: "You know and I know they cut us a new one in Texas over the assault weapons
: bill and the Brady Bill. But let me tell you something: since we adopted the
: Brady Bill last year, 1994, there were 40,000 felons who did not get handguns."
: -- Bill Clinton, 10/26/95, telling another outright lie
Takaharu Mizutani
: Has anyone seen Goldeneye yet? I saw that yesterday--aside from
: horrible gun-handling (finger on the trigger all the time), they show the
: same short-barreled AK-47 THREE TIMES, nine years apart. Not to mention
: how all the bad guys miss, but Bond and his PPK (with mysterious
: 400-round capacity) never misses. Or how the KGB agent recognizes the
: PPK by the sound of the hammer being cocked and recognizes Bond. Overall
: a good movie, but _slightly_ exaggerated...
I was watching "From Russia With Love" last week on TV, and I thought the
gun handling was worse in this movie. Finger on the trigger all the time,
but even better, Bond shot a bunch of people firing his Walther PPK from
the hip!
I just loved that bent-arm, hold pistol at waist-level and jerk trigger
to fire type of shooting. :-)
And that .32 ACP sure had stopping power. One shot to the center of mass
and each guy went down stone dead. But that's Hollywood for you. But
still, it was better than Bridget Fonda in "Point of No Return" shooting
that lovely Hammerli 208 with Titanium (?!?) bullets and having a report
that sounded more like a .44 Magnum.
--
Taka Mizutani University of Pennsylvania
taka...@mail.sas.upenn.edu Philadelphia, PA, USA
Land line: (215) 243-1247 Mobile: (215) 694-7039
Bob Clevenger
#John D. Boggs (j...@robigo.winternet.com) wrote:
#: In article <48i56k$4...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,
#: Johan Coetzer <coet...@telkom03.telkom.co.za> writes:
#: #d...@acpub.duke.edu wrote:
#
#: ##Worst movie? Without doubt, "Die Hard 2." So many technical errors
#: ##that I lost count, and I didn't even watch the whole thing. E-mail
#: ##for more details.
#
#: #Or how about when he tells the chief of airport security about how
#: #professional these bad guys are. About how they used these magic
#: #plastic Glocks which cannot be detected on a metal detector. What
#: #about the metal barrel (and all the other metal thingies inside) then?
#
#: I believe that he said they were using Glocks with a ceramic (or was
#: it porcelain?) barrel. I assumed that, this being fiction, it was a
#: fictional gun. Have you ever read science fiction? They do this sort
#: of thing all the time in it.
#
#No, the dialogue was something like "They had Glocks. Very expensive, and
#they don't show up on metal detectors." No mention of anything special
#about the barrels. I'l bet whoever wrote that line believed it, too. If
#they wanted to use a fictional gun, they could have simply given it a
#fictional name. I agree with the original poster who saw this as a gross
#error, and evidence of the ignorance of those who write screenplays.
Not to mention fueling the anti-gun hysteria in this country to a new
high --- but then maybe that's what they wanted.
-=Bob=- in Ontario, Calif.
Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily.
All other "sins" are invented nonsense.
(Hurting yourself is not sinful--just stupid.)
--- Robert A. Heinlein
James Keane
: Wasn't there a ceramic-barrelled Glock (Glock 9?) that was banned in the
: US before importation even began?
Not that I've ever heard of from a reliable source. The Glocks started
with the model 17, and have only gone up from there.
I'm no expert in ceramics, but I've studied a bit of structural
engineering in my time. These materials can have tremendous strength in
compression, but fall apart under tension. I don't suppose that those of
us who read this newsgroup will ever know what the latest "spook" weapons
are capable of, but the shock wave of firing a bullet (which alternately
puts the barrel into compression, then tension) seems like it would make a
ceramic barrel unfeasable.
Incidentally, the 1995-1996 edition of Janes "Infantry Weapons" mentions
exactly zero ceramic firearms.
I am comfortable believing that, as of right now, ceramic firearms are
just another fiction dreamed up by anti-gunners.
Besides, terrorists have been successful in getting honest-to-goodness
metal guns on board airplanes often enough. Is this really a big problem
for the CIA?
Regards,
J. Sean Keane
Colonel Panic
Terrell D. Drinkard <drin...@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> wrote:
#What I'd like to find now are examples of really bad gun handling or
#totally inauthentic protrayals of shooters or firearms. Films and
#books both.
One example I recall vividly is in "Blazing Saddles". In Hedley Lamarr's
recruitment line for bad guys, he fires his two-shot derringer three
times without reloading. (once, long pause, twice).
Seth Leigh
dirtbag throws a grenade, and inevitably a huge flaming mushroom cloud goes
up from it. This is funny. I have thrown live grenades before, and they
definitely do NOT make mushroom cloud, flaming explosions. In fact, you
see just a lot more dirt and smoke go up than flames at all, and it is not
really that big at all. You might see a little flash during the day, and
that's about it. Now, for those who want to call me on this one, no, I
didn't see the actual explosions from the grenades _I_ threw, as my head
was down behind a concrete barrier when they went off, but I did see a lot
of grenade explosions that others threw, as I stood behind some thick
glass. I have also seen the explosion that was made when I fired a 40mm
grenade from my M203 and hit a 2 1/2 ton truck about 250 yards away. It
made a little, round orange flash about the size of a beachball, a little
puff of smoke, and that was about it. It blew a hole maybe the size of a
dinner plate in the side of the truck.
This kinda reminds me of when I watched "Rat Patrol" when I was a kid, and
these two jeeps with .50 cal machine guns in Africa would get into some
battle with several German tanks and half-tracks. Some of the time
half-tracks would explode and burst into flames after being hit by this .50
cal, which by the way was fired while this jeep was screaming around at 50
mph in the desert. Also, sometimes the jeep would drive close enough to
one of the tanks that one of the guys could lob a grenade at it. The
grenades always hit, and exploded upon impact, and always blew the tanks
up. The tanks would be a flaming fireball after this. Ha ha ha, that was
such a funny show. Can you imagine what it must have been like to be the
driver of one of those jeeps, and have a .50 cal firing full auto right
above and behind your ears? Did they wear hearing protection?
--
Seth Leigh
email: se...@byu.edu
www: http://bert.cs.byu.edu/~leigh/
Mac Programmer, RC modeler, Supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights
"The typical anti-gun person really believes that all of us gun rights
advocates just wait for an opportunity to shoot them. And they call ME
paranoid?"
For my brother Chad: Check out The Electronic GunShop(sm):
http://www.xmission.com/~pengar/gunshop/
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese
##recruitment line for bad guys, he fires his two-shot derringer three
##times without reloading. (once, long pause, twice).
Awwwwwww . . . I'll excuse it in that movie. The laughs are worth it.
:-),
Janis
Chris Ream
# ke...@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu (James Keane) wrote:
#
# #Ken Marsh (kma...@charm.net) wrote:
# #: Wasn't there a ceramic-barrelled Glock (Glock 9?) that was banned in the
# #: US before importation even began?
#
# #Not that I've ever heard of from a reliable source. The Glocks started
# #with the model 17, and have only gone up from there.
#
# #I'm no expert in ceramics, but I've studied a bit of structural
# #engineering in my time. These materials can have tremendous strength in
# #compression, but fall apart under tension. I don't suppose that those of
# #us who read this newsgroup will ever know what the latest "spook" weapons
# #are capable of, but the shock wave of firing a bullet (which alternately
# #puts the barrel into compression, then tension) seems like it would make a
# #ceramic barrel unfeasable.
#
# #Incidentally, the 1995-1996 edition of Janes "Infantry Weapons" mentions
# #exactly zero ceramic firearms.
#
# #I am comfortable believing that, as of right now, ceramic firearms are
# #just another fiction dreamed up by anti-gunners.
#
# #Besides, terrorists have been successful in getting honest-to-goodness
# #metal guns on board airplanes often enough. Is this really a big problem
# #for the CIA?
#
# #Regards,
#
# #J. Sean Keane
#
# I saw a report once that as for intelligence agencies and "invisible"
# guns through xray systems, the KGB had two and the CIA had one that
# would do it. Did not say if it was based on material, design, etc.
# just the numbers. Of course I doubt these are any standard issue.
#
# Chuck
# Chuck.Cu...@HDCAFE.Riverside.Ca.US -or- Ch...@pe.net
And the service life on these things would be... ten rounds max? I would
think, that from a spook point of view, it would be easier to make a gun
into an item that security would pass, like a fountain pen and various
parts. This means that the use for an x-ray proof gun is slight. On the
other hand, perhaps it is the metal detector defeating properties they are
after? In that case, perhaps a combination of ceramic and carbon fiber
would make a decent one shot device...
-Chris
ZCarter530
I like the " Naked Gun " TV pilot episode where the
two guys open fire at each other while taking shelter
behing tin garbage cans. When the camera zooms out,
they are only about 4 feet apart. They each fire about
a dozen shots from their revolvers, all of which miss...
Frank Kleinburg
#
#
# I like the " Naked Gun " TV pilot episode where the
#two guys open fire at each other while taking shelter
#behing tin garbage cans. When the camera zooms out,
#they are only about 4 feet apart. They each fire about
#a dozen shots from their revolvers, all of which miss...
#
I remember that scene.. But what is really amazing is that
real gun fights between thugs and LOE's are often more
comical than that.. I have heard accounts of gun battles
(in this newsgroup - so I won't go into the details) where
the hand guns of both the thug and the cops were emptied
(sometimes more than 40 total shots being fired) without a
single bullet hitting the intended target.. And from distances
not much more than in the movie.. I guess it is fortunate that
thugs don't consider it important to be a good shot.. To bad
the police don't either.. .. flk kk
Craig Knotts
got six shots out of the "rock salt" loaded shotgun that appeared to
have a 3-4 round magazine. (The magazine was no longer than the
forearm of the gun).
Craig Knotts
ckn...@fwi.com
Will Hartung
# I like the " Naked Gun " TV pilot episode where the
#two guys open fire at each other while taking shelter
#behing tin garbage cans. When the camera zooms out,
#they are only about 4 feet apart. They each fire about
#a dozen shots from their revolvers, all of which miss...
The show was called "Police Squad", and there were six episodes made.
You can find them at some video stores for rental. Truly, some of the
funniest TV you'll ever see.
Other Police Squad Anecdotes:
o Frank Drebben (Leslie Nielsen) trying to discover where the
killer had to be when a shooting took place by taking several
different shots from different locations and angles -- into
live police officers, of course.
o Frank grabbing a hostage just like the perp with the quote "Oh
yeah? Well two can play at that game."
o Ballistic tests in the police labs by shooting into stacks of
old Barbara Walters interviews.
I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned the show "Sledge Hammer"
about the Dirty Harry-esque cop who was basically in love with his
magnum. "Hi, I'm Sledge Hammer -- and THIS IS MY GUN!!" Fairly in its
own right.
--
Will Hartung - Hermosa Beach, Lower Left Coast. vfr...@netcom.com
1990 VFR750 - VFR=Very Red "Ho, HaHa, Dodge, Parry, Spin, HA! THRUST!"
1993 Explorer - Cage? Hell, it's a prison. -D. Duck
Max Goldstein
http://www.teleport.com/~dputzolu/MovieGuns.shtml
you'll get some good info.
- MG
Takaharu Mizutani
: I just watched the new Bond movie GoldenEye last night. I'd like to find
: the 300 round AK magazines that look like 30 rounders that everyone seemed to
: have. Take a look at the bizarre grip that Bond uses on his pistol on
: the poster, too.
BTW,
Any of you who saw GoldenEye:
What kind of rifle is Bond using? It looks like a side-folder AK-47 type
rifle, but the flash suppressor is unlike any AK-47 I've seen. Is this an
AK-74, or one of the even newer variants? This same rifle shows up
several times in Bond's hands.
It looks like a lot of the Russians are using what appear to be AK-47s,
although it would be more accurate for them to be using the AK-74 or
whatever the current 5.45x39mm Soviet chambered rifles are called.
It's Bib!
If you can get access to it at a News Agency, read the movie review in
last Sunday's Baltimore Sun. It's titled, "Attack of the Killer
Liberals" and it has to be the most scathing movie review I've read in
recent years. It picks on "The American President" and "Nick of Time"
in particular. That it appeared in The Sun is amazing.
Bob
Jim Craft
#In the book "Red Dragon" (same author as "Silence of the Lambs"
#unless I'm mistaken) there's a mention of the story's hero
#taking his wife out to a range to shoot his Charter Arms .44
#Special. .... Anyone ever heard of
#"regular service ball" ammo for a .44 Spl.? :)
#
Assume that we are talking about a full power self defense load. I recall
.44 Spl being use by some police departments. The load then could be a
"regular service ball" ammo. Many years ago some police departments
restricted the use of hollow point bullets. Haven't heard of that
restriction lately.
Also I recently saw the Web Page listing movie blunders
(http://www.teleport.com/~dputzolu/). On the Raiders of the Lost Ark they
listing mentioned how Mr. Ford's revolver became a Colt .45 in the early
Tibetian Tavern scene. Actually later in the film (on the tramp freighter)
they showed that he was packing both (guess he didn't have Cooper and such
to help him decide between revolver or auto). A more serious blunder is
that towards the end of the movie, he threatened to blow up the Ark with a
Panzerfaust, which I believe wasn't invented until '43 or '44. I also
wondered why the British let the German Army run around Eygpt in the early
'30s.
david mcpherson
I just saw an episode of "True stories of the Highway Patrol" (one of
those "re-creation" shows) that has to take the cake. The incident was
of a Montana Highway Patrolwoman stopping a homcidal lunatic on the
road who jumped out of his truck and fired two rapid fire shots from a
blue 10" Thompson Center Contender - caliber unknown. I estimate the
shots were 1 - 1.5 seconds apart. Just to make it tougher he did it
all with one hand!
I've hunted deer with a Contender (in 7mm TCU) for a number of years.
Even with lots of practice (I shot IPSC for 8 yrs before I quit
competition 4 years ago) and an elastic strap on my left wrist to
holds 3 extra rounds (which the perp did not appear to have) my time
runs 6 to 7 seconds to fire, crack open the breech, pullout the empty
case, insert a new round, close the breech, cock the hammer and fire
again. It's almost (but not really) too bad the Trouper's return fire
smoked the guy because we'll never find out how he did it. ;<)
-D
Robert L. De raud
##In the book "Red Dragon" (same author as "Silence of the Lambs"
##unless I'm mistaken) there's a mention of the story's hero
##taking his wife out to a range to shoot his Charter Arms .44
##Special. .... Anyone ever heard of
##"regular service ball" ammo for a .44 Spl.? :)
#Assume that we are talking about a full power self defense load. I recall
#.44 Spl being use by some police departments. The load then could be a
#"regular service ball" ammo. Many years ago some police departments
#restricted the use of hollow point bullets. Haven't heard of that
#restriction lately.
Yup, same author: "Silence of the Lambs" is the sequel to "Red Dragon" and
shares some characters, notably Hannibal Lector. The setting is mid/late 70's
and the department is, of course, the FBI, so I assume no restriction on
the use of hollow-points applies here. In fact, the hero (and his wife)
used Glasers...I don't recall much discussion of the gun, but there was a
lot of stuff about "guaranteed one-shot stops" etc. (Are Glasers even
available in .44?) Released in modified but excellent movie form as
"Manhunter" by Michael Mann (yes, the Miami Vice guy...but guns are not
particularly important to the plot).
Lee
Alexander J. Cox
Mizutani) wrote:
#Sanford E. Walke IV (se...@izzy.net) wrote:
#
#: I just watched the new Bond movie GoldenEye last night. I'd like to find
#: the 300 round AK magazines that look like 30 rounders that everyone seemed to
#: have. Take a look at the bizarre grip that Bond uses on his pistol on
#: the poster, too.
#
#BTW,
#Any of you who saw GoldenEye:
#What kind of rifle is Bond using? It looks like a side-folder AK-47 type
#rifle, but the flash suppressor is unlike any AK-47 I've seen. Is this an
#AK-74, or one of the even newer variants? This same rifle shows up
#several times in Bond's hands.
#
#It looks like a lot of the Russians are using what appear to be AK-47s,
#although it would be more accurate for them to be using the AK-74 or
#whatever the current 5.45x39mm Soviet chambered rifles are called.
#
#
#--
#Taka Mizutani University of Pennsylvania
#taka...@mail.sas.upenn.edu Philadelphia, PA, USA
#Land line: (215) 243-1247 Mobile: (215) 694-7039
#
I can't quite remember what the designation of that AK variant is (AKM
maybe?) but it is a cut down version that used to be used by the
spetznaz SpecOps guys in the old USSR. If I remember correctly it
works much the same as a regular AK, it's just scaled down (much like
the CAR-15 used in vietnam and the new US SpecOps M-16 variant).
Alex
Chuck Cunningham
#Sanford E. Walke IV (se...@izzy.net) wrote:
#: I just watched the new Bond movie GoldenEye last night. I'd like to find
#: the 300 round AK magazines that look like 30 rounders that everyone seemed to
#: have. Take a look at the bizarre grip that Bond uses on his pistol on
#: the poster, too.
#BTW,
#Any of you who saw GoldenEye:
#What kind of rifle is Bond using? It looks like a side-folder AK-47 type
#rifle, but the flash suppressor is unlike any AK-47 I've seen. Is this an
#AK-74, or one of the even newer variants? This same rifle shows up
#several times in Bond's hands.
#It looks like a lot of the Russians are using what appear to be AK-47s,
#although it would be more accurate for them to be using the AK-74 or
#whatever the current 5.45x39mm Soviet chambered rifles are called.
The majority of the rifles I saw in the film appeared to be the AK74
with the box type flash suppressor...looks sort of like a whistle.
Tom DeLosh
weekend, and it occured to me that when Eastwood is trying
to psych out the villian ("Did I fire 6 shots or 5?") it
would be pretty simple to just look at the front of the
chamber and find out. Assuming it was a S&W, the next
round would be to the left of the barrel from the shootee's
point of view. From the camera's perspective you can pretty
much tell there is no round in that chamber. He gets the
shot off anyway -- maybe he's using .44 shorts?
Gotta love those silenced revolvers, too -- most recently
in 'Federal Hill'.
:-)
-TD
Thomas F. Allred, MD
one seen, Lambert was holding a semi-automatic pistol, but when
they changed camera angles [several times], he was holding a
revolver. The gun changed each time they shifted angle in that
scene.
--
Thomas F. Allred, MD
Neonatal Associates, PA
Spartanburg, SC
ing...@bnr.ca
In article <49l4fe$6...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, tom_d...@um.cc.umich.edu (Tom DeLosh) writes:
|> I caught the end of 'Dirty Harry' for the 198th time this
|> weekend, and it occured to me that when Eastwood is trying
|> to psych out the villian ("Did I fire 6 shots or 5?") it
|> would be pretty simple to just look at the front of the
|> chamber and find out. Assuming it was a S&W, the next
|> round would be to the left of the barrel from the shootee's
|> point of view. From the camera's perspective you can pretty
|> much tell there is no round in that chamber. He gets the
|> shot off anyway -- maybe he's using .44 shorts?
Actually Harry explains, earlier in that movie I think, that he shoots "light
specials". I can only assume he means .44 Special ammo of some configuration.
Due to the length of .44 Special vs. .44 Magnum rounds, it is easy to believe
that they would become lost in the recesses of the cylinder. Given that his
44 was blued, it becomes more probable. I too shoot .44 Specials from time to
time and they are significantly shorter than the full magnum load.
|> Gotta love those silenced revolvers, too -- most recently
|> in 'Federal Hill'.
|>
|> :-)
|> -TD
My Opinions Only,
Al
Max Goldstein
While not much else about the show was realistic, they did show Sonny pointing his
gun ahead from his midsection in the favored 3-eye approach when searching for a
suspect. Too many programs show the cops searching with their gun raised by their
ear pointing upward. While this does allow for a good close-up of the gun and a face
shot, their gun would be in a bad position if the perpetrator popped up. Also, if it
went off accidently, it would deafen the person holding it. Another movie is
Stallone's "Cobra" wher he actually has a scene cleaning a gun! That's pretty rare,
IMHO.
- MG
Orca
: I caught the end of 'Dirty Harry' for the 198th time this
: to psych out the villian ("Did I fire 6 shots or 5?") it
: would be pretty simple to just look at the front of the
: chamber and find out. Assuming it was a S&W, the next
: round would be to the left of the barrel from the shootee's
: point of view. From the camera's perspective you can pretty
: much tell there is no round in that chamber. He gets the
: shot off anyway -- maybe he's using .44 shorts?
Unless he's cocked the hammer.
--
---
\|/ \|/
* *
\_ _____--------. .--------_____ _/
== __ o__| |__o __ ==
----//---' `---\\----
Jonathan Perkins
# BTW,
# Any of you who saw GoldenEye:
# What kind of rifle is Bond using? It looks like a side-folder AK-47 type
# rifle, but the flash suppressor is unlike any AK-47 I've seen. Is this an
# AK-74, or one of the even newer variants? This same rifle shows up
# several times in Bond's hands.
The rifle that Bond uses in the movie is known as the AKSU-74 (also
sometimes called the AK-74 SU). It is chambered for the same 5.45x39mm
round that is used in the standard AK-74 rifle. The AKSU-74 features an
extremely short 7.87-inch barrel (200mm), which is fitted with a cylindrical
expansion chamber designed to provide more even gas pressures for the gas
system and -- to a degree -- reduce recoil. There is also a bell-shaped
flash hider. The overall length of the rifle is 675mm (26.6-in) with stock
extended and a mere 420mm (16.5-in) with its stock folded, vs. the 930mm
(36.6-in.) length of the full-size AK-74.
Although firing a rifle cartridge, the AKSU-74 is usually classed
as a sub-machine gun due to its short barrel and compact size, as was the
CAR-15 sub-machine gun/Colt Model 609 "Commando" of the 1960's.
The Colt featured a 10-inch barrel, and the basic design was later developed
into the XM-177/-177E1/-177E2 series of Vietnam fame. Like the ASKU-74,
the Model 609 fired a rifle round (5.56mm), and should not be confused with
the later Colt 9mm SMG based on the M-16 receiver. At least one variant of
the AKSU-74 is (or was) manufactured in the former Yugoslavia as the
Zastava M85, chambered for the 5.56x45mm round. A similar rifle, reported
in the West as the "AKR" or "Krinkov", is chambered for the larger
7.62x39mm round, and is known as the AKM SU (note that the AKR designation
was also applied to the AKSU-74 when it was first encountered).
Overall, the AKSU-74 is a handier version of the AK-74. Like the
AKM SU, it seems to have been designed as a more compact rifle/SMG for
tank and other armoured vehicle crewmen, or as a firing port weapon.
Sufficiently nasty and brutish-looking, it would seem to be an ideal "Bond
gun".
Hope this clarifies things.
--
----------
Jon Perkins--Ottawa, Canada
jper...@ccs.carleton.ca
CJSpeed
#Actually Harry explains, earlier in that movie I think, that he shoots
"light
#specials". I can only assume he means .44 Special ammo of some
configuration.
That was "Magnum Force" when he meets the hot shot rookies (David Soul and
Tim Matheson, among others) at the range for the first time.
Seth Leigh
least humorous if you are a gun enthusiast...
It was called "In Pursuit of Honor", starring Don Johnson as a crusty old
first sergeant in a US Cavalry unit. He and four other soldiers are
ordered to put down 500 horses that the Army is getting rid of (because the
cavalry is outdated and they are moving to tanks instead), they rebel, and
try to drive the horses up into Canada, with their Army unit in hot pursuit
of the "renegades."
Anyhow, at one point Don Johnson has to shoot 6 or 7 horses that have some
problems with their hooves and can't keep up. They are lined up, he paints
a big X with chalk on their foreheads, takes out his trusty 1911 and starts
shooting them. He racks the slide "ch-chink", shoots the first horse. The
he racks the slide again, "ch-chink" and shoots the second horse. You hear
him do this several more times "ch-chink, BANG, ch-chink, BANG, ch-chink,
BANG" until all the horse have been put down. This scene was kinda sad
because none of the men wanted to see the horses die, but I had to laugh at
how he racked the slide between each shot. Since Para Ordnance wasn't
around then that I know of (before WWII), I wonder if he reloaded, having
ejected every other round unfired! Another thing about the movie, once Don
Johnson actually clears the weapon before putting it back in its holster!
At least, he TRIES to clear the weapon, but he fails to remove the magazine
before racking the slide, so in reality he just loaded a _different_ round
into the chamber and still holstered it loaded and cocked. Kinda funny.