Winchester advice sought
misanthropic_curmudgeon
I have an old (and I mean old!) Winchester Cooey in 243 with some
sentimental value (being the rifle I shot my first deer with). I
brought this years ago from a mate who was travelling overseas when I
was getting into hunting. It was always a bit small for me but as
first hunting rifle it was fine.
It has an internal magazine, a long action (for a 243), quite a heavy
barrel, and a stock that previous owners have done quite a bit of work
to including on the grip, cheek-rest, and a fore-end extention. On a
hunt, I tripped and fell, and knocked the fore-end extention off.
Since then I cant seem to hit anything with it and it is not holding
any sort of zero. I've decided that a replacement stock is called for.
Pictures are at:
http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z203/misanthropic_curmudgeon/
A good (but very unflattering) picture of the broken forend is
http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z203/misanthropic_curmudgeon/?action=view¤t=2009_11057_sm.jpg
I took it to several gunstores to not much avail, and a reputed
gunsmith said it could be done for NZ$1000 (which is about UD$750) and
is absurdly expensive.
What I'd like to do is (inexpensively) replace the stock (myself, and
learn from the experince) and keep it as 'a second gun', perhaps as an
inexpensive 'goat-snotter' and/or to be used to introducing The Spawn
to centre-fires when they are older.
So, I ask you:
- what can you tell me about this old rifle?
- does this look like its bedded in and could it be floated?
- are stocks for these easily and cheaply obtained?
- are substitable stocks easily and cheaply obtained?
- are blank stocks worth investigating?
- are their any guides/books/online resources that would help me
(learn)?
Cheers,
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John Bischoff
You have several inexpensive paths to choose from.
Re-shaping the end of the forend ought to be pretty easy, so we will ignore
that.
It appears that the forend cap was **very** strongly attached to the wood. It
probably also exerted some upward pressure on the barrel. This was done to
change the harmonic vibrations in the barrel and thus "settle it down" so it
would make smaller groups. I can't tell from the pictures whether the barrel
touches the wood anywhere, but I guess that it does - on one side or the other -
and so the barrel vibrates in some different pattern which sprays bullets all
over the place.
You can free-float the barrel. This will let the barrel vibrate freely in its
primary (happiest) mode and all the other modes it might want to use. This
usually lets the shooter get smallest groups by adjusting powder and charge so
that the bullet departs the muzzle at one end of the vibration cycle. The muzzle
is moving most slowly at the ends of the vibrations and so there is more time
for the bullet to depart in the desired direction than if it were trying to
depart in the middle of the muzzle's vibratory swing.
There are several ways to do this.
El cheapo: Use coarse sandpaper on the barrel groove until the wood is at least
2 millimeters away from the barrel in all directions from the action forward.
Then put two to four thicknesses of a business card between the wood and the
action at the front and rear action screws. Shoot for group.
Then put several thicknesses of a business card between the forend and the
barrel - at the bottom of the barrel only - so that there is relatively firm
upward pressure on the barrel. Shoot for group.
Continue to finagle around in this way, shooting for group, to find the 'sweet
spot'.
Middle way: Do the same thing to the action, but use glass bedding instead of
the business card.
High end: Ditto on the barrel channel and then drill out about half the action
screw holes from the inside, get two pieces of aluminum made to fit those
drilled-out cavities but 2 mm longer than the cavities and with a central hole
for the action screw(s), and epoxy the aluminum into the stock. Now you have
pillar-bedded the action. But see what others say on this part, as I am a
neophyte on stock pillar-bedding.
In all the above instances, waterproof the barrel channel and other interior
wood surfaces. Glass bedding does this job too. If you are in the more arid
regions of kiwiland you don't need to worry about this.
.
The rifle seems to be from the middle 50's to 70's as there is no 'hump' for the
rear sight, but it may not be the original barrel for that action. It also may
well be the "Featherweight" model that Winchester offered back then - and the
Featherweight did not have a barrel hump for the rear sight. Ready-inletted
replacement wooden stocks that only need a lot of sanding and finishing ought to
be readily available.
All-plastic drop-in replacement stocks usually are already pillar-bedded, are
immune to water problems, and can be scratched and banged without causing horrid
ugly damage to finely finished wood with a lovely grain pattern in it.
Gunpartscorp.com may have drop-in wood stocks on hand. Many other vendors ought
to have offerings for the Winchester line.
Other vendors offer the plastic/fiberglass stocks.
If I were going to get a new stock it would be plastic.
Best regards
John
sta...@prolynx.com
raw tree trunk!
A little Googling shows this about Cooey:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/EveryGun/GunMfgCategoryDetail.aspx?id=528
Gun Parts/Numrich may have more info on their site as to what the
action really is. If you have a Winchester 70 action, you can
probably find a semi-finished stock relatively easily and just inlet
the barrel. Don't know of any web sites showing how to do that, it's
mostly smoking up the action( or using some kind of marking compound,
inletting black, prussian blue, lipstick, etc.), scraping off the high
spots with a scraper, repeat until satisfied. There's a few older
gunsmithing and stockmaking books out there that show some of the
details, not sure what's in print. Brownell's will have what there is
as well as stockmaking tools. Not rocket science, just tedious.
You'll need some dummy floor plate screws for doing it.
If you still have the fore-end tip, it can be reattached, just drill
out the old dowels and redo. If you sheared that many dowels, it was
a pretty good hit, might be something is loose in the scope, too, if
it's the same scope. If you haven't pulled the action, you might want
to do that and see if there's something loose, action twisted in the
stock, maybe hidden cracks.
A lot can be done with stocks with modern epoxies, I've seen very few
that couldn't be put back into service unless they were burned or a
pile of splinters.
Stan
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
You will need to have an ebay account to send him an email.
http://myworld.ebay.com/cooeyguy
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
Winchester model 70. These were made both before and after 1964, so
you would need to identify which variety it is. For some history see:
http://www.gunownersresource.com/gorole/index.php?title=H._W._Cooey_Machine_%26_Arms_Company
misanthropic_curmudgeon
[snip]
# I can't tell from the pictures whether the barrel
# touches the wood anywhere, but I guess that
# it does - on one side or the other - and so the
# barrel vibrates in some different pattern which
# sprays bullets all over the place.
I'm pretty sure it does: it look slike there is some sort of dark-
cream glue in there. It might be just from when the foreend was glued/
screwed/dowled in, but as yet I've not removed the stock. Given that
I've made the decision to replace the stock, I'll just do it.
# You can free-float the barrel. This will let the barre
# l vibrate freely in its primary (happiest) mode and
# all the other modes it might want to use. [snip]
# There are several ways to do this. [snip]
Thank you for the advice.
# In all the above instances, waterproof the barrel
# channel and other interior wood surfaces. Glass
# bedding does this job too. If you are in the more arid
# regions of kiwiland you don't need to worry about this.
There is not much about this part of the world that is dry. And if it
is dry, it wont be for very long!
# The rifle seems to be from the middle 50's to 70's as
# there is no 'hump' for the rear sight, but it may not be
# the original barrel for that action. It also may well be
# the "Featherweight" model that Winchester offered
# back then
"Featherweight" was some sort of joke by Cooey/Winchester? This thing
weighs more than my 308 with its big booty scope and bipod!
# Ready-inletted replacement wooden stocks that only
# need a lot of sanding and finishing ought to
# be readily available.
# All-plastic drop-in replacement stocks usually are
# already pillar-bedded, are immune to water problems,
# and can be scratched and banged without causing
# horrid ugly damage to finely finished wood with a
# lovely grain pattern in it.
# Gunpartscorp.com may have drop-in wood stocks
# on hand. Many other vendors ought to have offerings
# for the Winchester line.
# Other vendors offer the plastic/fiberglass stocks.
# If I were going to get a new stock it would be plastic.
Cheers, John, and again thanks for the advice and the heads-up.
misanthropic_curmudgeon
wrote:
# It sounds like a Cooey model 710, which was actually the same as a
# Winchester model 70. These were made both before and after 1964, so
# you would need to identify which variety it is. For some history see:
#
# http://www.gunownersresource.com/gorole/index.php?title=H._W._Cooey_M...
Thank you.
misanthropic_curmudgeon
[snip]
# If you have a �Winchester 70 action, you can
# probably find a semi-finished stock relatively
# easily and just inlet the barrel. �Don't know of
# any web sites showing how to do that, it's
# mostly smoking up the action( or using some
# kind of marking compound, inletting black,
# prussian blue, lipstick, etc.), scraping off the
# high spots with a scraper, repeat until satisfied.
Thanks for the wisdom, Stan.
# If you still have the fore-end tip, it can be
# reattached, just drill out the old dowels
# and redo. �
Nope: it is up an old logging track in the Kaimanawa Ranges somewhere.
# If you sheared that many dowels, it was a
# pretty good hit
It was a decent fall: a full on face-plant at pace (as I was quick-
marching up the old logging track in the dark) onto something very
hard that left me saying something very rude.