A FIELD TEST OF 9MM HIRTENBERGER FL +P+ AMMO
Landric
Thanks,
Landric
pert...@netcom.com
bullets averaged 1339. Maybe I got a bad batch of the Hirtenbergers; I don't
know. Bullets were fired from a 92FS. Anybody else checked these things with
a chronograph?
Dave bd Hsu
Bite Me ATF <sta...@utkvx.utcc.utk.edu> wrote:
#My personal opinions. I like this round, i think its a
#great anti automobile round. I also believe it has a good
#amount of antipersonnel activity, especially if going for
#an CNS shot.
Sounds like you had a lot of fun! I should add that it feeds very
reliably, even out of an HK USP40 mag in a USP9 (finally tried it
this week). And about the only detail in the Hirtenberger ad that
didn't make it into your article was their claim that with the high
jacket integrity of the round, skip shots are reliably achievable
off hard surfaces at up to 10 degrees angle.
-dave
--
Dave Hsu <h...@glue.umd.edu>
"The only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden violence."
- UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali
DotyB
my Glasers and CorBon 115's. Thanks in advance.
Brian
Bite Me ATF
#When I chrono'd the Hirtenbergers, I got 1330 fps average. Cor-Bon 115gr
#bullets averaged 1339. Maybe I got a bad batch of the Hirtenbergers; I don't
#know. Bullets were fired from a 92FS. Anybody else checked these things with
#a chronograph?
#
I went out to the range the other day and ram into a guy with a chrono, he let
me clock the FL's throu my USP and his glock 17
here are the results USP 4.1 inch barrell 1325-1337 fps, glock 17 4.5 inch
barrel 1350-1375 fps. I talked to the guy who told me he got 1440 out of his
glock 17 , well as it turns out he forgot to tell me it was a 17L (6 inch
barrel). I guess some things are always best verified by yourself.
I would be curious however to see these perform in a 5 inch barrel.
I also chrono some various kinds of 7.62x25 tok ammo, that info should be
posted here some where too.
Well, it seems as if the hirtenberger could be bumped up to even higher
velocities, might be interesting to pull the bullets and reload the case. I do
wonder how that would effectthe velocity spread though, i thought that it was
quite impressive that the spread from highest to lowest (in the USP) was only
12 fps, and i shot quite a bit of ammo.
BTW, i think it is still possible that these rounds will penetrate class 3a
armour, i base that on their very "pointy" non deforming tip. I do plan to do
some tests with the FLs on some Isrealie body armour that i should have access
to here soon (that vest has previously stoped 9mm nato, and 44 mag_)
thomas
#
Dave bd Hsu
#me clock the FL's throu my USP and his glock 17
#here are the results USP 4.1 inch barrell 1325-1337 fps, glock 17 4.5 inch
#barrel 1350-1375 fps. I talked to the guy who told me he got 1440 out of his
#glock 17 , well as it turns out he forgot to tell me it was a 17L (6 inch
#barrel). I guess some things are always best verified by yourself.
#I would be curious however to see these perform in a 5 inch barrel.
Besides barrel length, one more variable to consider is that the HK is
conventionally rifled while the Glocks are polygonally rifled. This
should be worth a few more fps to the Glocks.
Bite Me ATF
#
#Hmmm....interesting that you should say that about an addditional
#speed advantage to the Glock, 'cause I had a question about that
#general topic.
#
#Incidentally, I am relating this anectdotally. I have no first-hand
#knowledge of the event, it's component parts, or the validity of the
#reported results.
#
#During a recent conversation with an LEO friend (sitting at a camp fire
#on the YO Ranch) quite obviously the topic turned to firearms and such.
#During the course of that evening, he mentioned that he had taken a
#Glock 17 and Beretta 92F to the range for chronographing loads for the
#department.
#
#He stated that for the same loads the Beretta averaged about 100 fps
#faster than the Glock. I expressed some amazement at that remark. He in
#turn said that he repeated the experiment with both factory and hand
#loads with the result being the same each time, Glock slower than Beretta.
#
#Anybody else observed this phenomenon? Is it a possible aberration?
some one had posted aht they had clocked the hirtenberger ammo at about
1310-1320 in a berreta 92fs (which i believe has a 4.9 inch barrel). this is
considerably slower than the usp with a 4.1 inch barrel (about 1340) and the
glock 17 with a 4.5 inch barrel (about 1365).
the usp has had atleast 2500 rnds fired thru it and the range of veloecitys was
only 1325-1337 , thats only 12 fps from highest to lowest. the glock was an leo
trade in and it has some holster wear but had not been fired all that much, its
velocities ranged from 1350-1375, 25 fps highest to lowest.
in general polygonal rifiling (like in the p7) should be good for 20-30 fps
more (in barrrels with the only differance being the kind of rifiling).
another consideration, is "how loose" the barrel is, ie how easily the bullet
can make it through. That can be a factor of wear and other stuff.
Sometimes the a longer barrel can SLOW a bullet down. for example most 147 grn
bullets are slower in barrels over 16 inches. So a lot depends on how the ammo
is loaded. in a perfect world the ammo would be loaded for a specific gun.
and also rember that to have any sort of correlation the bullets should all be
from the same box and you should fire a bunch of them.
thomas
Bob Evans
: Where can you order this ammo from???? It sounds like a nice complement to
: my Glasers and CorBon 115's. Thanks in advance.
: Brian
Brian,
I just placed an order for some Hirtenberger 9mm +P+ fl
ammo from Cascade Ammo (?). I don't have their phone number
handy, but if you have a Shotgun News, they have ads in there.
Also, I'll post it here tonight when I come in.
bob evans
Peter Cash
carbine. Too bad the Marlin Camp Carbine is not rated for +P 9mm (I assume
this Hirtenberger stuff _is_ +P, right?).
I wish somebody would build a 9mm version of the M1 carbine. A gun maker
(Iver Johnson?) did this once, but I've never seen an example of this gun.
A gas-operated 9mm carbine ought to be strong enough to stand up to even
the highest pressure 9mm rounds; with this kind of ammo, such a carbine
could equal and maybe exceed the ballistics of the old .30 M1 carbine
round. It would be a handy weapon indeed.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist. |
Peter Cash | (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein) |ca...@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave bd Hsu
Peter Cash <ca...@convex.convex.com> wrote:
#It occurrs to me that these rounds would be quite formidable out of a
#carbine.
Actually, the Hirtenberger ad lists their claimed velocity parameter as
V(10), which I presume is velocity out of a 10" barrel. So...yeah!
# Too bad the Marlin Camp Carbine is not rated for +P 9mm (I assume
#this Hirtenberger stuff _is_ +P, right?).
Actually, it's +P+.
Jonathan R. Edwards
#It occurrs to me that these rounds would be quite formidable out of a
#carbine. Too bad the Marlin Camp Carbine is not rated for +P 9mm (I assume
#this Hirtenberger stuff _is_ +P, right?)...
Does this mean a Marlin in .45 or 9mm is not strong enough to handle a
decent number of hot loads? I would think they could handle it better
than a pistol... Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm looking for a
Marlin .45 with the idea that they can handle some fairly hot (+P) loads.
Jon Edwards
--
Jonathan R. Edwards _______
Georgia Institute of Technology (_o---.
\, ))))),
ghe...@cc.gatech.edu }==-'////'''''\
Peter Cash
Jonathan R. Edwards <ghe...@cc.gatech.edu> wrote:
#In article <3jfomd$s...@icarus.convex.com>,
#Peter Cash <ca...@convex.convex.com> wrote:
##It occurrs to me that these rounds would be quite formidable out of a
##carbine. Too bad the Marlin Camp Carbine is not rated for +P 9mm (I assume
##this Hirtenberger stuff _is_ +P, right?)...
#Does this mean a Marlin in .45 or 9mm is not strong enough to handle a
#decent number of hot loads? I would think they could handle it better
#than a pistol... Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm looking for a
#Marlin .45 with the idea that they can handle some fairly hot (+P) loads.
I _think_ that Marlin discourages use of +P loads in their carbines.
(Owners of Camp Carbines feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). The Marlin
is a simple blowback with no lockup, and is thus not a very strong design.
(From what I hear, the action also tends to open early, making it shoot
"dirty".)
This is why I'd like to se a 9mm M1 Carbine--this action should be able to
take even the hottest 9mm loads.
Scpa1980
The lack of expansion you described seems to be typical of JSP designs. I
ran this load over a chronograph after seeing
the importer's MV figures. MV at ten feet came to 1330 FPS in both a Glock
17 and a C75. I shot only one five shot group
for accuracy - two and three quarter inches ctc at twenty five yards.