12 Guage flare/shotgun pistol?
Charles
He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
flare or standard shotgun shell.
Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
Thanks,
Charles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
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Thomas Reynolds
"Charles" <cst...@interpex.com> wrote in message
news:dvrn4s$kts$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
# He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
# flare or standard shotgun shell.
#
# Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
#
# He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
#
# Thanks,
#
# Charles
He probably needs a separate "marine" shotgun in addition to a flair gun.
Seriously, piracy in the Caribbean is a problem and a flair gun, even one
than can shoot shotgun shells, is insufficient if he becomes an unlucky
target. The "pirates" (apparently drug runners looking for boats to use in
the trade), will not come using clubs and pistols. It is better to
discourage them at a distance...give them the idea this boat presents an
unnecessary risk so they move on.
Long Ranger
"Charles" <cst...@interpex.com> wrote in message
news:dvrn4s$kts$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
# He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
# flare or standard shotgun shell.
#
# Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
#
# He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
#
# Thanks,
#
# Charles
I've seen one, and it would fire a 12 guage shotshell, but it had to be a
21/2". Fairly uncommon round.
MCheu
<cst...@interpex.com> wrote:
#A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
#He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
#flare or standard shotgun shell.
#
#Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
#
#He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
#
#Thanks,
#
#Charles
Erm... I'm not sure if this is what your friend was talking about,
but there is a military surplus, single shot flare pistol that can a
12GA flare, or noise maker shells. It's not US military issue though.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=217633
I'm not sure you can safely fire shotgun shells in it though, and I
personally wouldn't try it.
As far as I know, the US and Canadian Navies use the Orion flare
pistols for their emergency kits. However, it's also not intended to
live ammo like 12GA shotgun shells, and probably isn't safe to do so.
Some models are aluminum, others are plastic.
http://www.orionsignals.com/Marine/Products/aerial.html
If you intend for one of these to do double duty as a defensive
weapon, there are 12GA OC shells (pepperspray) that are available
which are intended for use in such flare guns.
---------------------------------------------
Thanks.
MCheu
shey...@myrealbox.com
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:31:56 +0000 (UTC) Charles <cst...@interpex.com>
wrote:
>A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
>He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
>flare or standard shotgun shell.
>Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
>He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
>Thanks,
I saw and examined one about fifty years ago. It appeared to be
built very strong. The barrel was about 7 inches long. The gun
had US Navy markings. The guy who owned it and showed it to me
told me that it was designed for shooting 12 gauge flares. He said
that it is capable also of firing standard 12 gauge shotgun shells.
I was just a kid when I was showed the gun. The owner of the gun also
was just a kid. We were 13 or 14 years old then. He said that he had
chambered a standard 12 gauge shotgun shell in the gun and that it
fitted just fine. He said that he would not attempt to fire such a
shell in the gun because he believed that only a very big adult man with
large hands and a very strong wrist would be able to handle the recoil.
I agreed with him and so did all the other boys to whom he had showed
the gun.
He said he had obtained the gun by trading with another kid his baseball
bat for it.
I have no idea where the gun originally came from. I was a little Navy
brat then and I grew up with a lot of other Navy brats. We know nothing.
Sam Heywood
--
NTReader v0.32w(O)/Beta (Registered) in conjunction with Net-Tamer.
Plink
<cst...@interpex.com> wrote:
#A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
#He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
#flare or standard shotgun shell.
Yow! Flare guns are not designed for the higher pressures created by a
shotgun shell. That'd be as dangerous to the shooter as to the
shootee. Just because you can make it fit, doesn't make it safe to
fire. Besides, it'd only be good at belly gun range anyway.
Mike
Gunny
# He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
# flare or standard shotgun shell.
#
# Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
#
# He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
#
# Thanks,
#
# Charles
If he hasn't heard the advice yet, you give it to him. RESEARCH the laws!
Unless he intends to just anchor on the coast of the U.S. he is going to
have to deal with the gun laws in every foreign port he visits. Some are
lax, some very NOT so. Every island or country is different and if he is
not careful, he could be staying in some of their facilities a lot longer
than he planned. Too bad though. The Caribbean is beautiful but can be
very dangerous because of smugglers. Their typical operation is to jack a
boat, kill the occupants, and use the boat for a couple of drug runs, then
sink it or just abandon it. A good pump shotgun could be a lifesaver. He
will just have to check ahead and make sure he doesn't go to a port that
will prosecute him.
griffin
basically a 12 ga pistol, but the action, receiver and barrel would never
hold up to even a light hunting or target load. At least I wouldn't won't
to be the one pulling the trigger. Never thought about firing a flare round
through a standard, full length shotgun. Good thought though. In years of
offshore fishing I always carried a long gun on-board for peace of mind.
Maybe the 12 ga would have served a dual purpose. Might even launch a flare
round with a little more velocity.
"Charles" <cst...@interpex.com> wrote in message
news:dvrn4s$kts$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
DougC
Charles wrote:
# A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
# He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
# flare or standard shotgun shell.
#
# Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
Don't get one.
In case you haven't noticed, a standard, full size shotgun has a hefty
recoil. The stock must be firmly set on your shoulder and it can move
a novice back a step if he is not prepared for it. Firing a 20 ounce
pistol with a 12 guage shell is something you will try only once.
Doug Chandler
Brian Bunin
#
#"Charles" <cst...@interpex.com> wrote in message
#news:dvrn4s$kts$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
##A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
## He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
## flare or standard shotgun shell.
##
## Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
##
## He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
##
## Thanks,
##
## Charles
#He probably needs a separate "marine" shotgun in addition to a flair gun.
#Seriously, piracy in the Caribbean is a problem and a flair gun, even one
#than can shoot shotgun shells, is insufficient if he becomes an unlucky
#target. The "pirates" (apparently drug runners looking for boats to use in
#the trade), will not come using clubs and pistols. It is better to
#discourage them at a distance...give them the idea this boat presents an
#unnecessary risk so they move on.
#
I am relaying some of this third hand, so verify it for yourselves.
A LOT of the countries out there will throw you in jail just for having a
firearm on board.
Having said that, Mossberg made the Mariner Line Launcher, a kit containing an
orange Mossberg pump shotgun, blank line launching shells and a cable spool.
Oddly enough, there was nothing to prevent it being loaded with normal bucksot
or slug rounds.....
Brian
pump-action shotgun? It seems to me that would be the more reasonable
- and flexible - solution.
1) 12 gauge flares, for signalling distress
2) 00-buck to aid in the translation of English words and phrases
3) 3" magnum slugs against the hull of smaller craft
I think you're looking at this shotgun problem backwards. Let the
shotgun do your flare work - not vice versa.
Roger Pattee
<gu...@urrah.usmc.mil> typed:
#
#"Charles" <cst...@interpex.com> wrote in message
#news:dvrn4s$kts$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
## A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
## He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
## flare or standard shotgun shell.
##
## Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
##
## He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
##
## Thanks,
##
## Charles
#
#If he hasn't heard the advice yet, you give it to him. RESEARCH the laws!
#Unless he intends to just anchor on the coast of the U.S. he is going to
#have to deal with the gun laws in every foreign port he visits. Some are
#lax, some very NOT so. Every island or country is different and if he is
#not careful, he could be staying in some of their facilities a lot longer
#than he planned. Too bad though. The Caribbean is beautiful but can be
#very dangerous because of smugglers. Their typical operation is to jack a
#boat, kill the occupants, and use the boat for a couple of drug runs, then
#sink it or just abandon it. A good pump shotgun could be a lifesaver. He
#will just have to check ahead and make sure he doesn't go to a port that
#will prosecute him.
#
#
---------
If it were me, I'd go with a standard .12 gage shotgun and buy some
..12 gage flares as well as personal defense rounds (buck-slug).
Using the shotgun for defense-or-flares, as the situation determines.
mcheu
Brian wrote:
# How about just firing a 2 3/4" or 3" flare through your standard
# pump-action shotgun? It seems to me that would be the more
reasonable
# - and flexible - solution.
#
# 1) 12 gauge flares, for signalling distress
# 2) 00-buck to aid in the translation of English words and phrases
# 3) 3" magnum slugs against the hull of smaller craft
#
# I think you're looking at this shotgun problem backwards. Let the
# shotgun do your flare work - not vice versa.
#
The thing is, people who would even consider using a flaregun to shoot
real ammo tend to be in a situation where they can't legally have a
real firearm, so they're looking for a 'loophole'. It's not usually a
matter of space conservation -- if you've got space for a shotgun, I'm
sure you can find someplace to stow a flaregun or a tube type launcher.
In US controlled waters, your right to bear arms will probably have you
covered. Even then the US doesn't fully recognize the right as a
fundamental human right, as some states only recognize it for
Americans. In International waters, it's basically a free-for-all, so
there's not really any gun control regs out there. Once you get into
waters belonging to other countries though, you have to abide by their
rules, or risk ending up a guest of the state.
There's also the matter that some flares (not sure if all of them are
made like this) are basically small pieces of burning magnesium and
phosphorus. That stuff burns hot enough to do damage to a shotgun
barrel -- though I guess ruining the shotgun is probably the last of
your worries if you need to use it that way.
Gunny
"Brian Bunin" <bb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dvt5i5$lsq$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# In article <dvshok$98n$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, "Thomas Reynolds"# #news:dvrn4s$kts$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# ##A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
# ## He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
# ## flare or standard shotgun shell.
# ##
# ## Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
# ##
# ## He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
# ##
# ## Thanks,
# ##
# ## Charles
# #He probably needs a separate "marine" shotgun in addition to a flair gun.
# #Seriously, piracy in the Caribbean is a problem and a flair gun, even one
# #than can shoot shotgun shells, is insufficient if he becomes an unlucky
# #target. The "pirates" (apparently drug runners looking for boats to use
in
# #the trade), will not come using clubs and pistols. It is better to
# #discourage them at a distance...give them the idea this boat presents an
# #unnecessary risk so they move on.
# #
# I am relaying some of this third hand, so verify it for yourselves.
# A LOT of the countries out there will throw you in jail just for having a
# firearm on board.
#
# Having said that, Mossberg made the Mariner Line Launcher, a kit
containing an
# orange Mossberg pump shotgun, blank line launching shells and a cable
spool.
# Oddly enough, there was nothing to prevent it being loaded with normal
bucksot
# or slug rounds.....
That sounds like the ideal way to go. You might STILL get hassled by the
island cops but at least you have given your defense attorney something to
work with and the judge a reason to dismiss the charges, and you still get a
decent quality shotgun to defend your boat. I wonder if they are still
available or do you have to make your own with some orange krylon spray
paint from Walmart?
John
shey...@MyRealBox.com wrote:
# On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:31:56 +0000 (UTC) Charles <cst...@interpex.com>
# wrote:
#
# >A friend of mine is planning on moving to a sailboat on the Carribean.
# >He has heard there was a US Navy pistol capable of firing a 12 guage
# >flare or standard shotgun shell.
#
# >Anyone know about this gun or where to get one?
#
# >He is a Vietnam Vet, FWIW.
#
# >Thanks,
#
# built very strong. The barrel was about 7 inches long. The gun
# had US Navy markings. The guy who owned it and showed it to me
# told me that it was designed for shooting 12 gauge flares. He said
# that it is capable also of firing standard 12 gauge shotgun shells.
#
# I was just a kid when I was showed the gun. The owner of the gun also
# was just a kid. We were 13 or 14 years old then. He said that he had
# chambered a standard 12 gauge shotgun shell in the gun and that it
# fitted just fine. He said that he would not attempt to fire such a
# shell in the gun because he believed that only a very big adult man with
# large hands and a very strong wrist would be able to handle the recoil.
# I agreed with him and so did all the other boys to whom he had showed
# the gun.
#
# He said he had obtained the gun by trading with another kid his baseball
# bat for it.
#
# I have no idea where the gun originally came from. I was a little Navy
# brat then and I grew up with a lot of other Navy brats. We know nothing.
#
# Sam Heywood
# --
#
The usual WWII Navy flare gun was a Sedgley Mark 5. It's a bit larger
than a 12 gauge, I think - closer to a 10.
It would probably chamber and fire a 10 gauge shell. Once. And you'd
be known as Lefty ever after.
John Martin
donald haarmann
<shey...@MyRealBox.com> wrote in message news:dvt5hg$ls3$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
|
|
| I saw and examined one about fifty years ago. It appeared to be
| built very strong. The barrel was about 7 inches long. The gun
| had US Navy markings. The guy who owned it and showed it to me
| told me that it was designed for shooting 12 gauge flares. He said
| that it is capable also of firing standard 12 gauge shotgun shells.
|
| I was just a kid when I was showed the gun. The owner of the gun also
| was just a kid. We were 13 or 14 years old then. He said that he had
| chambered a standard 12 gauge shotgun shell in the gun and that it
| fitted just fine. He said that he would not attempt to fire such a
| shell in the gun because he believed that only a very big adult man with
| large hands and a very strong wrist would be able to handle the recoil.
| I agreed with him and so did all the other boys to whom he had showed
| the gun.
|
| He said he had obtained the gun by trading with another kid his baseball
| bat for it.
|
| I have no idea where the gun originally came from. I was a little Navy
| brat then and I grew up with a lot of other Navy brats. We know nothing.
|
| Sam Heywood
|
----------
Yes. However, you will not find any modern 12 ga Flare Guns that will fire 12ga shotgun shell.
Why? They are regulated under the THE NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT TITLE 26, UNITED STATES
CODE, CHAPTER 53
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/26usc_chap53.pdf
(e) Any other weapon. The term 'any other weapon' means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the
person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel
with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle
barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel
without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall
not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired
from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.
Also - I believe the Coast Guard will not allow you to have a rifle on board. [Remember that famous case in NY City? Someone
was shooting at sharks, the bullet ricocheted and killed someone driving on the parkway some miles away.] Shotgun(s) no problem.
You can buy stainless steel shotguns for boat use
--
donald j haarmann
------------------------------------
What passes for woman's intuition is
often nothing more than man's transparency.
George Jean Nathan
shey...@myrealbox.com
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:02:12 +0000 (UTC) "donald haarmann" <donald
-haar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> <shey...@MyRealBox.com> wrote in message news:dvt5hg$ls3$1@grapevine
>.wam.umd.
>edu...
>|
>|
>| I saw and examined one about fifty years ago. It appeared to be
>| built very strong. The barrel was about 7 inches long. The gun
>| had US Navy markings. The guy who owned it and showed it to me
>| told me that it was designed for shooting 12 gauge flares. He said
>| that it is capable also of firing standard 12 gauge shotgun shells.
>|
>| I was just a kid when I was showed the gun. The owner of the gun
>| also was just a kid. We were 13 or 14 years old then. He said that
>| he had chambered a standard 12 gauge shotgun shell in the gun and
>| that it fitted just fine. He said that he would not attempt to fire
>| such a shell in the gun because he believed that only a very big adult
>| man with large hands and a very strong wrist would be able to handle
>| the recoil. I agreed with him and so did all the other boys to whom he
>| had showed the gun.
>|
>| He said he had obtained the gun by trading with another kid his
>| baseball bat for it.
>|
>| I have no idea where the gun originally came from. I was a little
>| Navy brat then and I grew up with a lot of other Navy brats. We know
>| nothing.
>----------
>Yes. However, you will not find any modern 12 ga Flare Guns that will
>fire
>12ga shotgun shell.
>Why? They are regulated under the THE NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT TITLE 26,
>UNITED
>STATES
>CODE, CHAPTER 53
>http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/26usc_chap53.pdf
>(e) Any other weapon. The term 'any other weapon' means any weapon or
>device
>capable of being concealed on the
>person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an
>explosive,
>a pistol or revolver having a barrel
>with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell,
Assuming that the flare gun described above which I examined 50
years ago was not "mis-appropriated" government property, was it
legal for an ordinary citizen to possess without a special permit?
It was not designed to fire a shotgun shell. It was designed to
fire a flare. The fact that it appeared to have been built quite
strong and seemingly capable also of firing a standard shotgun shell
was viewed by me and my fellow teenage friends at the time as merely
a very interesting and curious observation. Neither I nor any of
them were in favor of attempting to fire a shotgun shell in it
because we were not certain of our opinion that it would not blow
up and because all of us felt quite sure that none of us would be
able to handle the recoil.
>weapons with combination shotgun and rifle
>barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which
>only a
>single discharge can be made from either barrel
>without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be
>readily restored to fire. Such term shall
>not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores
>, or
>weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired
>from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.
>Also - I believe the Coast Guard will not allow you to have a rifle on
>board.
>[Remember that famous case in NY City? Someone
>was shooting at sharks, the bullet ricocheted and killed someone
>driving on
>the parkway some miles away.] Shotgun(s) no problem.
>You can buy stainless steel shotguns for boat use
Sam Heywood
--
NTReader v0.32w(O)/Beta (Registered) in conjunction with Net-Tamer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
sta...@prolynx.com
determined to be illegal. Ex-military shotgun-caliber flare pistols
were just one thing. Just because they squeaked by back then doesn't
mean that they're legal to have now. It doesn't matter what it was
originally designed to shoot, if it will chamber and fire a shotgun
shell, it's a short-barreled shotgun and is covered by U.S. legal
prohibitions.
Any current flare guns sold in the U.S. to civilians you can be sure
will not safely chamber and fire a 12 gauge shotgun shell, even though
the bore itself is 12 gauge. Most I've seen lately have been plastic.
The line-thrower/shotgun is a much better idea along with a 1" flare
gun. 12 gauge flares are pretty wimpy if you actually need to use them
for emergency signalling.
Stan
donald haarmann
|
| Assuming that the flare gun described above which I examined 50
| years ago was not "mis-appropriated" government property, was it
| legal for an ordinary citizen to possess without a special permit?
| It was not designed to fire a shotgun shell. It was designed to
| fire a flare. The fact that it appeared to have been built quite
| strong and seemingly capable also of firing a standard shotgun shell
| was viewed by me and my fellow teenage friends at the time as merely
| a very interesting and curious observation. Neither I nor any of
| them were in favor of attempting to fire a shotgun shell in it
| because we were not certain of our opinion that it would not blow
| up and because all of us felt quite sure that none of us would be
| able to handle the recoil.
|
|
------------
Logic would say it is illegal as of the date of passage on the law. A lot of
Boy's anti tank rifles and semi-auto 20mm's (which I remember when you could buy
mail order — and for a buck a pop — 20mm explosive rounds!) became illegal
to own when they were declared "Destructive Devices".
Note also the possession of an AR-15 and an auto sear at the same time-place even
if not assembled is an machine gun per ATF. In NY State and I suspect elsewhere the possession
of a "firearm" i.e., a pistol or revolver or very short barrel shotgun/rifle, and ammunition
for same even if not loaded in magazine and/or chamber is a "loaded weapon."
It is what can be done that counts.
donald j haarmann
-----------------------
Crime wouldn't pay
if the Government
ran it. Anon.
flash...@earthlink.net
#
# In case you haven't noticed, a standard, full size shotgun has a hefty
# recoil. The stock must be firmly set on your shoulder and it can move
# a novice back a step if he is not prepared for it. Firing a 20 ounce
# pistol with a 12 guage shell is something you will try only once.
#
#
MAYBE SHOULD HAVE READ : " In case you haven't noticed, a standard,
full size shotgun CAN HAVE a hefty recoil, although ther are ways to
minimize this.. " 12GA target loads are a good beginning point.
Yes, it can safely be fired one-handed, but practice is required for
consistent results. Experience and practice make this quite possible,
but for the un-prepared, it is unusual, difficult, and often
surprising.
There are some trapshooters I know of who do fire one-handed, just for
the fun of it, holding the shotgungun out in pistol-fashion. Yes, of
course, they do have a strong grip, and they actually DO hit a lot of
birds. However, the gun they are using is considerably more than twenty
ounces.
And I can't recall when I've seen a novice of over 75 lbs knocked out
of battery by the recoil.
Flash
Brian Bunin
#A lot of things were sold as surplus after WWII that were later
#determined to be illegal. Ex-military shotgun-caliber flare pistols
#were just one thing. Just because they squeaked by back then doesn't
#mean that they're legal to have now. It doesn't matter what it was
#originally designed to shoot, if it will chamber and fire a shotgun
#shell, it's a short-barreled shotgun and is covered by U.S. legal
#prohibitions.
Not necessarily.
There are a few shotgun pistols out there. As long as it was DESIGNED and
BUILT as a pistol, it's a pistol, not a SB.
I once saw a 12g derringer. I don't want to ever shoot one.
200...@wongfaye.com
i would have some type of 26mm with a 12 ga adapter then i would use a
12ga to 410 adapter even the weakest 12 ga really would hurt the wrist
so say a soviet bloc type surplus steel flaregun with an aluminum 12 ga
adapter then an adapter from a place like littleskeeters.com
donald haarmann
| Not necessarily.
| There are a few shotgun pistols out there. As long as it was DESIGNED and
| BUILT as a pistol, it's a pistol, not a SB.
|
| I once saw a 12g derringer. I don't want to ever shoot one.
-------------
Almost. If it has a rifled barrel it is a pistol, if it has a smoth bore other then BP/muzzle
loading it is "any other weapon" and not legal.
There are .45 (long Colt) 410ga derringers. They have rifled barrels.
--
donald j haarmann
------------------------
What we could do with round here is a good war.
What else can you expect with peace running wild
all over the place? You know what the trouble with
peace is? No organization. Bertolt Brecht
donald haarmann
| BUILT as a pistol, it's a pistol, not a SB.
|
| I once saw a 12g derringer. I don't want to ever shoot one.
|
|
----------
For the shooter who has everything!
http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm
http://thunder5.com/docs1.html
In one of the gun mags some time within the last 40-yrs. There was an article wherein a .45 colt frame was
cut and lengthened to accept two cylinders welded together. This pistol would now shoot .410 ga shot shells.
A 12 ga. derringer may be a "Destructive Device."
Remember the "Tround"? Gyrojet pistol? Confederate two-barrel cannon?
--
donald j haarmann
----------------------------
There are more things in heaven and
earth, Horatio.
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The Melancholy Dane
shey...@myrealbox.com
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:39:47 +0000 (UTC) "donald haarmann" <donald
-haar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>| There are a few shotgun pistols out there. As long as it was DESIGNED
>| and BUILT as a pistol, it's a pistol, not a SB.
>|
>| I once saw a 12g derringer. I don't want to ever shoot one.
>----------
>For the shooter who has everything!
>http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm
>http://thunder5.com/docs1.html
>In one of the gun mags some time within the last 40-yrs. There was an
>article wherein a .45 colt frame was cut and lengthened to accept two
>cylinders welded together. This pistol would now shoot .410 ga shot
>shells.
>A 12 ga. derringer may be a "Destructive Device."
>Remember the "Tround"? Gyrojet pistol? Confederate two-barrel cannon?
I visited the URL's you posted. I really liked the one about the
"Super Shorty". I wonder why they want a $100 processing fee for all
orders when the price of the required BATFE registration and tax stamp
for "Any Other Weapon" is only five bucks.
The other URL was the one about the "Thunder Five". I remember
reading about it in the gun magazines at the time when this gun first
came out. The gun magazines were highly recommending it as being a
very good gun for self defense. It never became a good seller. I
examined one in a gun shop when the gun first came out during the early
1980's. The quality of the manufacturing and workmanship was notably
somewhat inferior. This gun should have been "value priced" as were
other revolvers of the same or somewhat better quality. It was priced
way too high. If it were value priced as it should have been I think
it would have become a very successful big seller.
Sam Heywood
--
NTReader v0.32w(O)/Beta (Registered) in conjunction with Net-Tamer.
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Lou
and became friends with him. (Indian Ocean) It was not legal for him to
carry a firearm, he was black, Apartied was the law at the time. He had
a nicely made flaregun with U.S. Navy markings on it. He had two steel
inserts, shaped like shotgun shells, but they were actually cartridge
holders. One held a .45 Russian cartridge. The other held a 9mm
cartridge. He had them hidden inside the handle of the shotgun and had
a 3 pack of 12 gauge flares clipped to the handle. He could insert the
steel shell/catrridge holder, fire it , and eject it like a shotgun
shell. He then unloaded the device with a wooden dowel. The "Flare Gun"
had a break open action. It was very sturdy, but I don't think I would
want to shoot a shot gun shell in it. I imagine the pistol cartridges
were not too bad to shoot.
But for protection, I would recomend the real thing. Just keep it
hidden aboard the boat. It's getting more dangerous out there, be
careful.
Alan C. Jones
I'm going from memory here (and probably going to embarass myself in
front of those here who know much more than I), but I think it was LeMat in
the 1880's had a five or six round cylinder in .45 Long Colt and a twelve
gauge single shot tube directly underneath firing off a separate trigger.
What a way to win a bar fight, if you didn't break you wrist!
I also liked the Navy issue of the Walch .36 caliber (cap and ball?) in
a 12 shot revolver. With all that firepower, you had to hit something, or
at least totally confuse them when they thought you were empty after 6
shots!
Alan
"Lou" <lyn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e0cv8p$2b4$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
Brian Bunin
#Friends,
# I'm going from memory here (and probably going to embarass myself in
#front of those here who know much more than I), but I think it was LeMat in
#the 1880's had a five or six round cylinder in .45 Long Colt and a twelve
#gauge single shot tube directly underneath firing off a separate trigger.
#What a way to win a bar fight, if you didn't break you wrist!
It was (IS! Someone is doing repros) a Black powder weapon, with the shotgun
part being about 28g.
It's a great big honkin thing designed for Cavalry. One of the first "Assault
Weapons" :)
DougC
Alan C. Jones wrote:
# LeMat in
# the 1880's had a five or six round cylinder in .45 Long Colt and a twelve
# gauge single shot tube directly underneath firing off a separate trigger.
The LeMat revolver was made in the 1860's and some were used in the US
Civil War. It was a muzzle loader for black powder, with a 9 shot
cylinder about .42 caliber and another barrel under the first in .63
caliber used for buckshot. There was a switch on the hammer that made
it hit either the percussion caps on the cylinder or the one for the
big barrel. The owner could pour in as much black powder as he thought
he could handle.
Doug Chandler
GT Tick
shoot, if it will chamber and fire a shotgun shell, it's a
---
---
I've often wondered how the current fad of .410 pistols gets past this
law. I guess they don't consider a .410 a shotgun. I'm considering a
Taurus 4410 in stainless myself. I live on a small private lake and it
should make a neat little boat gun.
Tick
***FREEDOM THROUGH VIGILANCE***
R.M.R.
flare gun if used as a last ditch weapon at say 20 feet.No I'm not
thinking of shish kabobing the neighbors cat,just curious...
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum) U.S.A.
Plink
<alcj...@comcast.net> wrote:
#Friends,
# I'm going from memory here (and probably going to embarass myself in
#front of those here who know much more than I), but I think it was LeMat in
#the 1880's had a five or six round cylinder in .45 Long Colt and a twelve
#gauge single shot tube directly underneath firing off a separate trigger.
#What a way to win a bar fight, if you didn't break you wrist!
# I also liked the Navy issue of the Walch .36 caliber (cap and ball?) in
#a 12 shot revolver. With all that firepower, you had to hit something, or
#at least totally confuse them when they thought you were empty after 6
#shots!
#Alan
The LeMatt is a black powder revolver with 9 chambers around a muzzle
loaded central shot barrel. Absolutely ingenius for the time and a
really fun gun to shoot. The shot barrel isn't that bad to shoot,
actually.
Mike
sta...@prolynx.com
GT Tick wrote:
# Stan posts....."It doesn't matter what it was originally designed to
# shoot, if it will chamber and fire a shotgun shell, it's a
# short-barreled shotgun and is covered by U.S. legal prohibitions.".....
# ---
# ---
# I've often wondered how the current fad of .410 pistols gets past this
# law. I guess they don't consider a .410 a shotgun. I'm considering a
# Taurus 4410 in stainless myself. I live on a small private lake and it
# should make a neat little boat gun.
#
# Tick
#
As long as the barrel is RIFLED, it's legal as long as it fits neatly
into pistol or rifle categories. Rifling does absolutely nothing for
patterns, makes a short range gun even shorter range. I was referring
to devices like teargas pens and pistols, flare pens and pistols,
teargas billies and such where the original intent was to fire
something other than ball or shot rounds but were chambered for
standard cartridges. These have been long since held to be either AOWs
or short-barreled shotguns, owners of unregistered ones are in heaps of
legal trouble(and may not know it). See "Improvised Modified Firearms"
for examples.
Once upon a time, .410 ammo was fairly cheap, I've several shotguns
I've inherited in the caliber. I've never fired them, .410 for a box
of 20 costs more than 2 boxes of 12 ga.(or close to a box of 50 .45
Colts) and really does nothing I can't do with the 12 or 16. Not my
choice for either self-defense or hunting.
Stan
Plink
wrote:
#Stan posts....."It doesn't matter what it was originally designed to
#shoot, if it will chamber and fire a shotgun shell, it's a
#short-barreled shotgun and is covered by U.S. legal prohibitions.".....
#---
#---
#I've often wondered how the current fad of .410 pistols gets past this
#law. I guess they don't consider a .410 a shotgun. I'm considering a
#Taurus 4410 in stainless myself. I live on a small private lake and it
#should make a neat little boat gun.
They're technically a .45 Long Colt that just happens to fit a .410
also. Some of them are even smoothbore except for the last inch of
barrel which is rifled. This makes them legal.
I have one of those crappy double barreled ones that I carry as a
snake pistol when I'm in an area that I need one. I was surprised to
find it a good compromise. The inch of rifling is enough to stabilize
the .45 Colt bullet, yet not enough to spin a load of shot too badly.
Now that I was able to prove that the concept works, I'll probably get
one of the Bond derringers in the same configuration to reduce bulk.
Mike
Alan C. Jones
without all the flame and hostility the sometimes make one want to
unsubscribe to this newsgroup!
Alan
"Plink" <mikek...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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