Slugs & Winchester Model 1300 Defender
LeeJ581184
How do slugs perform in this weapon?
Chad
#How do slugs perform in this weapon?
To my knowledge, all 'Defender' models are equipped with a smooth bore.
Therefore, slug performance will be greatly reduced from a rifled
barrel. 'Sabot' slugs, would not function properly either.
Luckily, any 1300 rifled barell will fit this gun.
C.
Nosy
< How do slugs perform in this weapon?
Just fine. Expert shotgunners suggest getting a box
of every manufacturer you can find of buckshot as
well as slugs; see which shot load patterns tightest
and which slug is most accurate in your shotgun.
Incidentally, if you install a Winchoke in the muzzle
and limit the magazine capacity (a simple dowel rod
will do the job) this makes a dandy dove gun.
LeeJ581184
writes:
#To my knowledge, all 'Defender' models are equipped with a smooth bore.
#Therefore, slug performance will be greatly reduced from a rifled
#barrel. 'Sabot' slugs, would not function properly either.
#Luckily, any 1300 rifled barell will fit this gun.
#
#C.
Thanks for the response.
What about rifled slugs? (I've got Remington 'Slugger' 1 oz. rifled slugs
at this
time.)
Lee.
Josh Grosse
#How do slugs perform in this weapon?
When the firing pin strikes the primer, the primer explodes, sending flame
into the propellant, which ignites, causing rapid formation of gases.
These gases then force the projectile and wadding to open the crimp, then pass
out of the chamber, past the forcing cone, through the bore, and out the
muzzle.
Well, you asked! :-)
Seriously, every single firearm is an individual when it comes to slugs.
You'll have to try out a number of them in *your* firearm, and see how they
perform. I recently did this with my shotgun, prior to the firearm deer
season here in Michigan.
My shotgun has a smoothbore slug barrel, chambered for 3" 12-guage. So I
stuck my IC choke in it, and then bought a 5-rnd box of every Foster and
Brenneke slug in 2-3/4" and 3" I could find. I then went to my range, and:
1) Used 3 rounds at a 50 yard target, and 2 rounds at a 100 yard target.
2) Measured the 50 yard targets for 3-rnd group size.
3) Measured the 100 yard targets for average drop, so I'd know where to aim
when going beyond 50 yards.
I then went back to the store and bought three more 5-rnd boxes of the best
grouping slugs, 10 for sighting in, and 5 for hunting. In *my* barrel, these
happened to be 2-3/4" RWS Brenneke's in 1 oz size. My hunting partner's
firearm happens to like Winchester 2-3/4" Super-X slugs the best.
In my gun, the 3" rounds performed worse than 2-3/4" rounds, with the
exception of the 2-3/4" 1-1/8oz RWS Brenneke, which was just about the worst
of any round tested in my barrel.
If I required slugs beyond 100 yards, I'd buy a rifled choke, sabots, and a
scope.
I hope this helps.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse jd...@juts.ccc.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp. joshua...@amail.amdahl.com
Southfield, Michigan 810-358-4440
D SERL
#Therefore, slug performance will be greatly reduced from a rifled
#barrel. 'Sabot' slugs, would not function properly either.
#Luckily, any 1300 rifled barell will fit this gun.
In my experience, the differences between the size of slug groups fired
from an unrifled (i.e "standard") shotgun barrel and a rifled one are too
small to be of any real tactical significance. My smooth-bored 870 shoots
cloverleaf one hole or almost one-hole groups at 25 yards with plain old
generic-type Federal, Remington and Winchester slugs. How much can that be
improved at that range? Putting a rifled Hastings barrel on it to shoot
Sabot-style projectiles only yields marginal improvement at *extreme*
ranges for shotgun slugs like out at 100 yards. Even then the smoothbore
provides adaquate hunting accuracy for deer or tactical self-defense
situations. (In any event, self-defense seanarios justifying legal use of
lethal force at such extreme ranges are difficult to imagine.)
On the other hand, shooting buckshot through a rifled barrel results in
the shot being spun out into very large "donut" patterns, meaning that a
perfectly centered shot could put all projectiles arround but not *on* the
intended target. IMHO, rifled barrels are not appropriate at all for
tactical shotguns and only have applications for target shooting and
hunting relatively small targets like boar at very long ranges.
LeeJ581184
writes:
[snip-snip]
# Even then the smoothbore
#provides adaquate hunting accuracy for deer or tactical self-defense
#situations.
> (In any event, self-defense seanarios justifying legal use of
#lethal force at such extreme ranges are difficult to imagine.)
# On the other hand, shooting buckshot through a rifled barrel
results in
#the shot being spun out into very large "donut" patterns,
[snip]
In my original post, I failed to mention that the self-defense scenario
has
the engagement in a moderately sized home where the perp is on the other
side of one or more doorways, or down a long hallway, etc., 15-20 yards
max indoors (20-40 yards outdoors on my property).
I envisioned that much of the buckshot could be absorbed by walls or
doorframes, whereas selecting slugs would ensure a hit. Conversely,
buckshot
would be certainly used for the usual '7 yards' situation. So, the range
is not
extreme, but the decision to be made is when slugs would be better than
buckshot.
From off-line discussions, it is suggested that the Defender is kept
loaded with buckshot (or other favorable shotshell) and slugs available on
a SideSaddle or somesuch device.
With respect to legal use of force in Texas, after reading the law on
deadly force several times, in my home (or property)
I don't feel constrained to wait till the perp is certainly about to kill
me or burn
my house down to take appropriate action.
Thus the planning for possible longer range engagement in the dwelling
or on (or defending) the property.
(I could even use deadly force to stop someone committing arson to my
neighbor's property, which might be smart, depending on the wind
direction.)
Lee.
D SERL
(LeeJ581184) writes:
#the engagement in a moderately sized home where the perp is on the other
#side of one or more doorways, or down a long hallway, etc., 15-20 yards
#max indoors (20-40 yards outdoors on my property).
My point exactly. At a maximum range of 40 yards the difference between
the size of the slug group shot with a smooth bore and that shot with a
rifled barrel is a matter of only an inch or so, unlikely to have any
practical significance. Menewhile a good load of buck shot (such as
Federal Tactical) shot from a jug-choked barrel will group inside of 12-18
inches at 20 yards, but if fired out of a rifled barrel it will open up to
as much as 4-5 feet, meaning that a perfectly placed shot could still miss
the perp with all nine projectiles.
#With respect to legal use of force in Texas, after reading the law on
#deadly force several times, in my home (or property) I don't feel
constrained >to wait till the perp is certainly about to kill me or burn
my house down to >take appropriate action.
Texas law is not typical of the rest of the US in this matter. In most
jurisdictions one has to pass the "reasonable man" test in that one has to
convince the jury that a "reasonable man" would feel in fear of his life
prior to using deadly force. Some states are even more strict and require
an attempt to retreat prior to using deadly force. In any event, my point
was that the range at which a rifled shot gun barrel provides a
significant tactical advantage over a smooth barrel for shooting shotgun
slugs is well in excess of 50 yards and probably more like 100 yards for
man-sized targets. It would be hard to convince a jury that you felt in
immediate fear for your life when the perp is a whole football field's
distance away. I guess one could come up with a situation in very rural
areas where this *might* occur but in that case you would be much better
off with a .223 or .308 rifle anyway. But by equipping your defensive
shotgun with a rifled barrel for such a very unusual situation, you give
away most of its utility with buck shot at more realistic indoor and
yard-sized ranges.
LeeJ581184
writes:
# At a maximum range of 40 yards the difference between
#the size of the slug group shot with a smooth bore and that shot with a
#rifled barrel is a matter of only an inch or so, unlikely to have any
#practical significance.
I took some slugs to the range and tried them out at 50 yards. I was
able
to keep them within a 1ft sq area, with smooth bore and bead sight.
#Texas law is not typical of the rest of the US in this matter.
In Texas, among other things, deadly force can be used to prevent
burglary,
arson, theft at night, to protect yourself and others (especially
relatives).
In one's home, one wouldn't have to retreat before shooting a burglar.
I may post a softcopy of the statute.
My original post was based on the fact that at ~15 yards, 00 buckshot
patterned
widely from the Defender. So, I felt possibly that slugs, in the longest
distances in my home, might be better than buckshot. For short distances,
00
is obviously the choice.
So, since the slugs performed well at 50 yards, my curiosity is satisfied.
Lee