hot, but safe 8x57 loads ??

[Christian Arntz Mac-Evoy]

Hi.

I am looking for a load data for a 8x57 Mauser, better than comercial
mild Winchester or Remington but safe to shoot in a Yugo M98 "Preduce 44". I
have a 180 gr. Nosler B. Tip.

Thanks.

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[Clark Magnuson]

I wanted to work up a load for 8x57mm in my 1903 Turkish Mauser with
200 gr Yugo bullets, CCI 200, IMR4895, Collet neck, no crimp, RP
brass, and 3.160" I looked at different load books for IMR4895 powder
loads for the 8x57mm JS Mauser cartridge and found the maximum load
varied from 35 gr to 50 gr. I got a sticky bolt 50 ~ 52 gr and the best
accuracy at 47.5 gr.

The 8x57JS as developed as a military cartridge in 1905 got 2,930 fps
with a 150 gr bullet. In 1998 "Speer 13" shows 2675 fps. How was 255 fps
lost in 93 years?
Recent load books have been reducing loads due to lawyers and pressure
testing errors of amplitude and duration. The 8mm Mauser has the triple
whammy, in that there is still the American confusion between the 8x57J
[old .318" rare rifles] and the 8x57JS [new .323" 1898 rifles].

Vernon Speer, in 1958 said he believed pressure testing was not the best
way to determine max loads for a strong rifle, but rather work up to
case head expansion and reduce charge by 6%. My work up in 2001 gave
nearly identical max loads per this system as was written in Speer load
books in the early 60's.

1) "Sierra" [newer than 1971]: 150 gr 50.5 gr 2800 fps 175 gr 48.1 gr
2600 fps
2) "Sierra 50 Th. Anniversary" 1995: 150 gr 50.5 gr 2800 fps 175 gr 48.1
gr 2600 fps
3) "Hornady Handbook" 1973: 150 gr 52.5 gr 2900 fps 170 gr 50.1 gr 2700
fps
4) "Hornady 5 Th." 2000[ H4895]: 150 gr 50.5 gr 2800 fps 170 gr 47.9 gr
2600 fps
5) "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders volume 2" 1966 PO Ackley: 150 gr
54 gr 2900 fps 170 gr 51 gr 2700 fps
5.5) "Speer 6" 1964: 150 gr 54 gr 2864 fps 170 gr 51 gr 2704 fps 225 gr
49 gr 2452 fps
6) "Speer 7" 1966: 150 gr 54 gr 2864 fps 170 gr 51 gr 2704 fps 225 gr 49
gr 2452 fps
7) "Speer 8" 1970: 150 gr 54 gr 2864 fps 170 gr 51 gr 2704 fps
8) "Speer 9" 1974: 150 gr 48 gr 2849 fps 170 gr 46 gr 2640 fps
9) "Speer 11" 1987: 150 gr 48 gr 2675 fps 170 gr 46 gr 2640 fps
10) "Speer 12" 1994: 150 gr 48gr 2675 fps 170 gr 46 gr 2640 fps
11) "Speer 13" 1998: 150 gr 48 gr 2675 fps 170 gr 46 gr 2640 fps
12) "Lyman 40th" 1955: 154 gr 48 gr 2776 fps 170 gr 46 gr 2600 fps 227
gr 45 gr 2350 fps
13) "Lyman 41 st" 1957: 154 gr 48 gr 2776 fps 170 gr 46 gr 2600 fps 227
gr 45 gr 2350 fps
14) "Lyman 43 rd" 1964: 150 gr 54 gr 2920 fps 170 gr 51 gr 2695 fps 225
gr 49 gr 2410 fps
15) "Lyman 45th" 1970: 150 gr 51 gr* 2824 fps compressed 170 gr 49 gr*
2672 fps compressed 225 gr 46 gr* 2341 fps compressed
16) "Lyman 47th" 1992: 150 gr 51+ gr 2824 fps compressed 170 gr 49+gr
2672 fps compressed
17) "Handloading" William Davis and the NRA 1981 150 gr 36 gr 2310 37k
cup 170 gr 46 gr 2640 <50k cup
18) IMR catalog 1990 [current]: 150 gr 36 gr 2310 37k cup 170 gr 33.5 gr
2145 37k cup
19) "Modern Reloading" Richard Lee 1996: 150 gr 36 gr 2310 37k cup 170
gr 33.5 gr 2145 37k cup
20) "Hodgdon No. 27" 1998: 150 gr 36 gr 2310 37k cup 170 gr 33.5 gr 2145
37k cup

My notes from the range in 2001: 44 gr 2.2" 45 gr 2.25" 46 gr 2.25" and
top hat primer 47 gr
1.5" 48 gr 3.3" 49 gr >4" and sticky bolt 50 gr >4" and case base bulge
51 gr 3" 52 gr 2.25" Very sticky bolt

I reloaded and went back a second day: 46.25 gr >1.9" 46.50 gr 4" 46.75
gr 3.4" 47.00 gr 3" 47.25 gr 5" 47.50 gr 2.2" 47.75 gr 2.6" 48.00 gr
4.3" I think I shot too fast the second day and the barrel was hot.

http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=005453
http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=005533#000008

[Edward F. Arnold]

On 8/29/02 5:26 PM, in article akm72d$fgn$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu, "Clark
Magnuson" <cmag...@attbi.com> wrote:

#
# The 8x57JS as developed as a military cartridge in 1905 got 2,930 fps
# with a 150 gr bullet. In 1998 "Speer 13" shows 2675 fps. How was 255 fps
# lost in 93 years?
# Recent load books have been reducing loads due to lawyers and pressure
# testing errors of amplitude and duration. The 8mm Mauser has the triple
# whammy, in that there is still the American confusion between the 8x57J
# [old .318" rare rifles] and the 8x57JS [new .323" 1898 rifles].

In the case of the 150gr. "S-bore" ballistics, almost everyone forgets that
the barrel of the Gew. 98, from which the velocities are quoted, is no less
than 29.13 inches long, while the modern velocities cited are developed in
barrels a good 5 inches shorter. There's a good 150-fps. reduction, if not
more, on nothing but the barrel length. And, yes, the modern U.S. Factory
loads, and some handload data, are held to under 40,000psi, in deference to
the advanced age and questionable condition of many surplus 8x57 rifles.

IMHO
Ed Arnold

[Donald Merritt]

Dear Christian

L:ooks like you got a lot of info from Clark,

Handloaders Digest issue No 182 gave the best all around accuracy load for the
8mm was the 175 (or 180) grain bullet in front of 49 grains of IMR 4064.

I usually get 2 inch groups at 2450 fps at 100 yds in an original mauser WWII
(SVW-45) type.

I don't shoot it much any more, but I did put several hundered rounds thru it in
the 60's before I hung it on the wall.

Sincerely

Don Merritt

Christian Arntz Mac-Evoy wrote:

> ...

--
Donald Merritt
--
dmerit at quiknet dot com
(replace 'at' with @ and 'dot' with . to send me mail)

[Clark Magnuson]

#
# barrels a good 5 inches shorter. There's a good 150-fps. reduction,

5" would be ~150 fps, but if over the years, Speer drops 6 grains,
Lyman drops 3 gr, and Hornady drops 2 gr, there is then, also the
wimpification factor.