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Exploding bullets

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Paul Hammer

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Aug 20, 1991, 3:11:01 PM8/20/91
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#At the local gun shows, there's an outfit selling exploding bullets in
#everything from 9mm to 12 ga shotgun shells. He had a cross section of

What do you suppose the legal ramifications of using an exploding
bullet for self defense would be? It seems that a reasonable
justification would be to prevent over penetration. Particularly
if the target was missed; the bullet would disintegrate before it
reached the second wall.

Net.wisdom?

-RCF
-!PH

Jim Heath

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Aug 20, 1991, 9:52:15 PM8/20/91
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# What do you suppose the legal ramifications of using an exploding
# bullet for self defense would be? It seems that a reasonable
# justification would be to prevent over penetration. Particularly
# if the target was missed; the bullet would disintegrate before it
# reached the second wall.
#
# Net.wisdom?
#
# -RCF
# -!PH

The only time I've seen these used, they seemed to need to hit
something quite hard in order to explode. This was several years
ago ~79. The ammunition was 9mm. The ones Hinckley (sp?) used
didn't work very well as regards exploding. Will these things
explode when they hit wallboard? Will they explode when they hit
flesh or bone?

I expect a DA on the make would love a case where the defendant
used exploding bullets.

Jim Heath

Mickey Boyd

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Aug 21, 1991, 11:02:25 AM8/21/91
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In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu>, ag...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Damian Lukowsky) writes:
#
#My freind has drilled holes into 44mag ammo, put a few grains of
#black powder in the hole, then tapped a primer into the hole. The
#idea being that when the round strikes a surface it will ignite
#the primer and powder and go 'bang'.

#Does this work?

Unlikely. Perhaps it would if some sort of pointed striker was set on top
of the primer. Primers don't go off reliably unless they are struck dead
center. The black powder would be useless in this round (except for a little
smoke and flash).

#Is it legal?

Absolutely not. The thought police would probably cut off your toes if they
caught you with any of these.

A more traditional way of obtaining an exploding bullet is with mercury. A
hole is drilled in the nose of the bullet, a drop of mercury inserted, and the
hole sealed with lead (with some airspace over the mercury). The idea is
that the mercury slams back in the cavity, then shoots forward when the
bullet hits something (in theory "exploding" the nose of the bullet). Also
mercury is poisonous. This idea also has its problems (the subject of a
long lived thread on this group about a year ago).

This one is illegal too, by the way.

--
Mickey R. Boyd | "God is a comedian playing to an
FSU Computer Science | audience too afraid to laugh."
Technical Support Group |
email: bo...@nu.cs.fsu.edu | - Voltaire

Mike Tighe

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Aug 21, 1991, 8:54:56 PM8/21/91
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In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> ee53...@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax) writes:
#In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> bo...@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes:
#

#>A more traditional way of obtaining an exploding bullet is with mercury. A
#>hole is drilled in the nose of the bullet, a drop of mercury inserted, and
#>the hole sealed with lead (with some airspace over the mercury). The idea
#>is that the mercury slams back in the cavity, then shoots forward when the
#>bullet hits something (in theory "exploding" the nose of the bullet). Also
#>mercury is poisonous. This idea also has its problems (the subject of a
#>long lived thread on this group about a year ago).

# Can anyone document somebody actually _trying_ this?

This technique was used by the actor Robert Ginty, in the movie, "The
Exterminator". He also had a copy of "The Anarchist Cookbook", from which
he was getting these recipes, at least that is what was implied in the
movie. I do not know if this is in the Cookbook.
--
+--------------------------------------------+
|Mike Tighe, ti...@convex.com, (214) 497-4206|
+--------------------------------------------+

Duke McMullan n5gax

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Aug 21, 1991, 6:57:35 PM8/21/91
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In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> bo...@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes:

#A more traditional way of obtaining an exploding bullet is with mercury. A
#hole is drilled in the nose of the bullet, a drop of mercury inserted, and the
#hole sealed with lead (with some airspace over the mercury). The idea is
#that the mercury slams back in the cavity, then shoots forward when the
#bullet hits something (in theory "exploding" the nose of the bullet). Also
#mercury is poisonous. This idea also has its problems (the subject of a
#long lived thread on this group about a year ago).

Can anyone document somebody actually _trying_ this? It strikes me as being
unlikely as hell, plus it's my understanding that most people read about in a
work of fiction (name, anyone?). I'm not trying to jump on Mickey about this;
I'm simply curious if it's more than rumor.


#This one is illegal too, by the way.

No doubt.

d

--
Visualize Whirled Peas!
Duke McMullan n5gax nss13429r phon505-255-4642 ee53...@triton.cirt.unm.edu

trsva...@utacfd.uta.edu

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Aug 22, 1991, 10:18:45 AM8/22/91
to

/* ---------- "Exploding bullets" ---------- */


My freind has drilled holes into 44mag ammo, put a few grains of

black powder in the hole, then tapped a primer into the hole. The

idea being that when the round strikes a surface it will ignite

the primer and powder and go 'bang'.

Does this work? Is it legal?
***********************************************

Actually, unless the bullet hits something solid enough to cause the
primer to go off, it won't work. There is a risk involved, in that a sensitive
primer could fire off in the barrel or chamber shortly after firing the
cartridge. This may or may not wreck a gun (this depends on a lot of factors).

Legally, you could use it,,,, but ,,,, even if you used it in a lawful
defensive situation, and you go to court, the opposing side (prosecutor, plaintiff, victim's attorney, et cetera) would hang you up on nail and skin you alive.
The most common argument, is that you purposely, and premeditatively, made up
a special "dum-dum" bullet just for the purpose of killing or maiming some poor
person; which would make you look like a monster in front of a jury. The same
argument works for those who would reload their own custom ammunition, and use
it in a defensive situation, they would also get nailed to the wall too.
What happens is that, eg. a burglar breaks into your home, and you shoot
him. He lives, but is now permanently crippled. He'll sue you in civil court,
and the odds are very, very good that he'll win a judgement against you for
shooting him with evil "dum-dum" bullets.
Reloaded ammo, using hollow point bullets, etc, falls into the same
category. A good lawyer will make it look like you purposely loaded these
special "dum-dum" bullets to commit mayhem, and you were just looking for a
"poor innocent" victim to kill. There have been a number of precedent setting
courtroom cases already.

ALWAYS BUY AND USE ONLY FACTORY MADE AMMUNITION IN YOUR HOME DEFENSE
WEAPON(S). It'll save you a lot of trouble and grief and money when all
the lawsuits and court trials start comming up all over.

Criminals, of course, don't care one bit. It's the law abiding citizens
that get the dirty end of the stick all of the time.

***********************************************************************

<This information is provided by an individual and is not nor should be
construed as being provided by Radio Shack or Tandy Corp. Radio
Shack/Tandy Corp has no obligation to support the information provided
in any way. >

Earl W. Bollinger
@ <trsvax!earl>


"You were in the Clone Wars!", said Luke excitedly.
"Yes", replied Obi Wan, "I was a DOS programmer. But that was before the dark
times, before OS2."

John Kapson

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Aug 22, 1991, 10:18:48 AM8/22/91
to
In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> ee53...@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax) writes:
#In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> bo...@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes:
#
##A more traditional way of obtaining an exploding bullet is with mercury. A
##hole is drilled in the nose of the bullet, a drop of mercury inserted, and the
##hole sealed with lead (with some airspace over the mercury). The idea is
##that the mercury slams back in the cavity, then shoots forward when the
##bullet hits something (in theory "exploding" the nose of the bullet). Also
##mercury is poisonous. This idea also has its problems (the subject of a
##long lived thread on this group about a year ago).
#
#Can anyone document somebody actually _trying_ this? It strikes me as being
#unlikely as hell, plus it's my understanding that most people read about in a
#work of fiction (name, anyone?). I'm not trying to jump on Mickey about this;
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Day of the Jackal"

Jim Heath

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Aug 24, 1991, 1:50:55 PM8/24/91
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#From article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu>, by ee53...@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax):

# In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> bo...@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes:
#
# #A more traditional way of obtaining an exploding bullet is with mercury. A
# #hole is drilled in the nose of the bullet, a drop of mercury inserted, and the
# #hole sealed with lead (with some airspace over the mercury). The idea is
# #that the mercury slams back in the cavity, then shoots forward when the
# #bullet hits something (in theory "exploding" the nose of the bullet). Also
# #mercury is poisonous. This idea also has its problems (the subject of a
# #long lived thread on this group about a year ago).
#
# Can anyone document somebody actually _trying_ this? It strikes me as being
# unlikely as hell, plus it's my understanding that most people read about in a
# work of fiction (name, anyone?). I'm not trying to jump on Mickey about this;
# I'm simply curious if it's more than rumor.
#

I am not sure about the mercury. The SLA (I believe) was reputed
to have assassinated a school official using bullets filled or
tipped with cyanide.

I think I read somewhere that mercury will absorb lead. If this
is true, you would have to use 'em or loose 'em pretty fast.

What about using water in the same fashion? It is pretty
incompressable (sp?).

Can anyone cite the specific law about this being illegal? I'm
not sure it is, unless it might have gotten nixed by the cop
killer bullet law (now that everyone who isn't deaf and blind
knows to shoot the cops in the head.

Geoff Kotzar

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Aug 26, 1991, 10:26:35 AM8/26/91
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In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> ee53...@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax) writes:
#In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> bo...@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes:
#
##A more traditional way of obtaining an exploding bullet is with mercury. A
##hole is drilled in the nose of the bullet, a drop of mercury inserted, and the
##hole sealed with lead (with some airspace over the mercury). The idea is
##that the mercury slams back in the cavity, then shoots forward when the
##bullet hits something (in theory "exploding" the nose of the bullet). Also
##mercury is poisonous. This idea also has its problems (the subject of a
##long lived thread on this group about a year ago).
#
#Can anyone document somebody actually _trying_ this? It strikes me as being
#unlikely as hell, plus it's my understanding that most people read about in a
#work of fiction (name, anyone?). I'm not trying to jump on Mickey about this;
#I'm simply curious if it's more than rumor.
#
#
# Visualize Whirled Peas!
# Duke McMullan n5gax nss13429r phon505-255-4642 ee53...@triton.cirt.unm.edu

Yes I did try this about twenty years ago using .22LR hollow points as the
vehicle. It does not work. After injecting the mercury into the cavity, I
don't recall if I enlarged the cavity or not, I placed a dab of epoxy over
the nose. The following morning after the epoxy should have cured I found
I had one of the prettiest silver, not lead-colored, bullets and the epoxy
had receded into the cavity. Since that time I found out about "amalgams":
alloys of mercury with other metals.

Mercury goes into solution with a number of metals at room temperature, lead
being one of them along with silver, tin, copper, zinc, aluminum, and a host
of other metals. This is the reason you can use mercury to dissolve any leading
in your barrels. For the record any of you with fillings in your teeth are in
all probability walking around with silver-tin amalgams in your mouth. The
reason these are safe is that they are mixed up in precise proportions and all
of the mercury is bound or is supposed to be anyhow. There has been some
concern in the biomedical arena that some of the mercury may leach out.

Back to the issue, the reason the bullet surface was a bright silvery color
was that the mercury had migrated along the free surface of the cavity and
reacted with the fresh lead along the way. I guarantee that if you put mercury
in a hollw cavity in a lead bullet without first coating the lead you will
wind up with a fairly brittle homogenous bullet that will not "explode" or even
"splash" upon contact. It will instead fracture. I am assuming here that the
hollow cavity is of conventional size in relation to the bullet. What the
result would be like with a large cavity and a smal amount of lead I cannot
say.

Geoff Kotzar g...@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu

:Andrew Ford

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Aug 27, 1991, 5:32:54 PM8/27/91
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In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu>, jhe...@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
# #From article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu>, by ee53...@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax):

# # In article <38...@mimsy.umd.edu> bo...@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes:
# #
# # #A more traditional way of obtaining an exploding bullet is with mercury. A
# # #hole is drilled in the nose of the bullet, a drop of mercury inserted, and the
# # #hole sealed with lead (with some airspace over the mercury). The idea is
# # #that the mercury slams back in the cavity, then shoots forward when the
# # #bullet hits something (in theory "exploding" the nose of the bullet). Also
# # #mercury is poisonous. This idea also has its problems (the subject of a
# # #long lived thread on this group about a year ago).
# #
# # Can anyone document somebody actually _trying_ this? It strikes me as being
# # unlikely as hell, plus it's my understanding that most people read about in a
# # work of fiction (name, anyone?). I'm not trying to jump on Mickey about this;
# # I'm simply curious if it's more than rumor.
# #
#
I saw this done in the movie _The Extiminator_.
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