Shoot .41 Mag in 410.
Animeniac
I have an M6 survival gun. .22 over .410.
Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum? Or are the dimensions
other than they seem?
I have .410 slugs, but they seem quite low powered. I can't imagine
what they are meant for. I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
Thanks, JR
Anime arimasu ka? (Got Anime?)
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RB
# I have an M6 survival gun. .22 over .410.
#
# Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum? Or are the dimensions
# other than they seem?
#
# I have .410 slugs, but they seem quite low powered. I can't imagine
# what they are meant for. I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
.41 Mag has to have much higher chamber pressures than any .410.
No way I'd try it. Why not handload for it?
Natman
(Animeniac) wrote:
#
#I have an M6 survival gun. .22 over .410.
#
#Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum? Or are the dimensions
#other than they seem?
#
#I have .410 slugs, but they seem quite low powered. I can't imagine
#what they are meant for. I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
#
NO.
It will NOT be safe to fire a 41 Magnum in a 410 shotgun chamber.
Shotguns are loaded to FAR lower pressures than a 41 Mag develops.
Don't do it.
410 slugs use a very light for caliber slug (~80 grains IIRC). I can't
imagine what they are good for either.
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
# I have an M6 survival gun. �.22 over .410.
#
# Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum?
No - the rim diameter of the .410 is .524, while the .41mag is .492
Some .410 guns can shoot .45 Colt ammunition, which has a rim diameter
of .512
Natman
(Animeniac) wrote:
#
#I have an M6 survival gun. .22 over .410.
#
#Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum? Or are the dimensions
#other than they seem?
#
#I have .410 slugs, but they seem quite low powered. I can't imagine
#what they are meant for. I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
P.S. The *bore* of a 410 shotgun is .410, but the *chamber* is
considerably larger. If a 41 Magnum cartridge was fired in a 410
chamber it would probably rupture, sending hot gas and brass
everywhere.
Don't do it.
nord...@yahoo.com
The original M6 was a 22 Hornet over 410 and its barrel was much
shorter. The Air Force Hornet was loaded with FMJ bullets and was
meant for larger game and the 410 was intended for use on small game
and birds only with shot.
# Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum? �
No. No! NO!
# Or are the dimensions other than they seem?
Yes. Even if it were safe the 41 magnum cartridge would swim in a 410
chamber.
# I have .410 slugs, but they seem quite low powered. �I can't imagine
# what they are meant for. �I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
410 slugs are ~80 grains ~.39 caliber ~1800 fps, essentially
duplicating the ballistics of a .40 muzzleloader (a bore size mostly
used by target shooters and small game hunters in its time). It gives
up half its velocity and 2/3 its energy by the time it crosses the 100
yard line. While one encounters folks who have killed deer with them
it wouldn't be most fellas first choice for a deer gun.
RB
# 410 slugs use a very light for caliber slug (~80 grains IIRC). I can't
# imagine what they are good for either.
Might as well load a wiffle ball!
sta...@prolynx.com
#
# Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum? �Or are the dimensions
# other than they seem?
#
# what they are meant for. �I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
#
# Thanks, �JR
#
# Anime arimasu ka? � �(Got Anime?)
#
.41 Magnum is much higher pressure than a .410, even ignoring the
possible chamber misfit. Probably would disintegrate the gun. Even
if it did hold together, the bullet would have no rifling to stabilize
it.
If you want to mess around, there is/was brass .410 cases imported,
Midway used to have them. There were also a couple of web sites that
offered up loads for same. You could cook up some multiple buck loads
or birdshot loads with harder shot. It takes relatively few tools to
load up brass shotshells, some method of punching out and seating
primers and some way to punch out wads. Would be cheaper than ponying
up the $10-12/box for .410s. A single shot would be the perfect item
to use them in, too.
As far as slugs are concerned, I have read of guys using them for deer
hunting, but I rather think they're for much lighter game. Probably
intended for using the barn gun on varmints up to maybe coyote-sized.
Manufacturers' ballistics should be on their websites. Back of the
Gun Digest used to have a table, too.
Stan
JDH
# I have an M6 survival gun. .22 over .410.
#
# Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum? Or are the dimensions
# other than they seem?
#
# what they are meant for. I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
#
# Thanks, JR
#
While the bore of both are close, the case is not. The rim diameter on a
41 mag is .485 and the base of a .410 is .475 with a rim of .525.
chances are the 41 mag case will self destruct in a .410 chamber IF it
will even get a good hit from the firing pin.
Martin H. Eastburn
They usually put a choke on the shot gun version and then unscrew it for .45.
Thompson is one.
One never knows if the shotgun can handle the pressure and the like.
Martin
nord...@yahoo.com
# No - the rim diameter of the .410 is .524, while the .41mag is .492
# Some .410 guns can shoot .45 Colt ammunition, which has a rim diameter
# of .512
Careful now. It's the other way around. There are 45 Colt pistols
with the chamber cut to accept the 410 shotshell. The T/C Contender
45 Colt/.410 barrel and the newer Taurus Judge being better known
examples. A .410 shot charge or a .39 caliber slug will pass easily
through a .452 barrel but a .452 bullet is not a good match for a .410
bore size. Let's be careful out there people.
Larry Caldwell
(Animeniac) says...
# I have an M6 survival gun. .22 over .410.
You didn't mention if the shotgun has a choke. If it does, you can't
shoot solid slugs. Shotgun slugs are not solid, which allows them to
compress when they go through the choke. A solid slug will just blow
out the barrel.
Yes, the .410 slug is a pretty anemic load. Load the .410 with #6 and
use it for birds and squirrels. If you are a decent wing shot, it will
keep you fed.
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Thomas Reynolds
Larry Caldwell
(Thomas Reynolds) says...
# I have seen a deer instantly dropped with one .410 slug.
I have seen a deer dropped instantly with a .22LR. That doesn't mean it
is a high power load. Some shotguns will chamber the .45 Long Colt
round, which is substantially higher power than a .410 slug.
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Airman
# I have an M6 survival gun. .22 over .410.
#
# Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum? Or are the dimensions
# other than they seem?
#
# what they are meant for. I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
#
# Thanks, JR
Some of the old folks around here have used the H&R single shot .410's
with .44 Mags or Specials for deer hunting. I think maybe H&R's habit of
using the same barrel blank for different gauges is what's saved them.
Makes for a rather thick-walled chamber when you use a 12 gauge barrel
and chamber it for .410!
Anecdotally, one guy I know bragged of a feature his .410 had when
shooting .44s. He said the action "automatically" opened after a round
was fired. Might say something about the strength of the action lockup,
you think?
Natman
<firstnamel...@peaksky.com> wrote:
#In article <h23ef4$pj7$1...@news.albasani.net>, tom.re...@verizon.net
#(Thomas Reynolds) says...
#
## I have seen a deer instantly dropped with one .410 slug.
#
#I have seen a deer dropped instantly with a .22LR. That doesn't mean it
#is a high power load. Some shotguns will chamber the .45 Long Colt
#round, which is substantially higher power than a .410 slug.
As was mentioned above, a .452-454 45 LC bullet will have a tough
passage down a .410 shotgun barrel.
As far as shooting a deer goes, the fact that a given load "can kill"
a given animal does NOT mean it is a good idea to deliberately hunt
that animal with that load.
Larry Caldwell
says...
# As was mentioned above, a .452-454 45 LC bullet will have a tough
# passage down a .410 shotgun barrel.
I wasn't really suggesting it so much as comparing the .410 slug to a
handgun round. It really is pretty anemic. The .410 is a small game
shotgun. Through a smooth bore, a lead slug would be very inaccurate.
However, a good gunsmith could ream and rifle the .410. If someone
wants more power, it would make more sense to choose a .22WM/.410 or
..22/.30-30.
Survival guns are not supposed to be high powered. You assume you are
going to spit roast a squirrel or grouse and move on. The biggest thing
I can imagine shooting with a survival gun is a jackrabbit.
The idea is to keep the combined weight of the gun and ammunition to a
couple pounds. The best survival gun I ever saw was a box lock .22/.410
with 18" barrels and a wire stock with no forepiece. You could break it
in half in 2 seconds and stuff it in your backpack. It would reassemble
just as fast, and you could pack it with shells in both chambers.
# As far as shooting a deer goes, the fact that a given load "can kill"
# a given animal does NOT mean it is a good idea to deliberately hunt
# that animal with that load.
Shooting a deer with a survival gun is self-defeating. That much meat
nails your feet to the ground and draws predators.
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haraoi_conal
# I have an M6 survival gun. �.22 over .410.
#
# Will the .410 single shot handle a .41 Magnum? �Or are the dimensions
# other than they seem?
#
# what they are meant for. �I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
#
Do you reload? I use 444 Marlin cases to make brass 410 shot shells.
The shot loads are pretty weak out of a 12ga adapter. I load 3 00
buckshot and they are real fun and cheap to plink with. I use pistol
primers. I don't recall what I'm using for a powder load. Some
quantity of Alliant 2400 I think. If you are interested, I'll look it
up and post a source.
nord...@yahoo.com
# going to spit roast a squirrel or grouse and move on. �The biggest thing
# I can imagine shooting with a survival gun is a jackrabbit. �
One can make a case that a proper foraging gun need be only a 22
rimfire rifle. One can carry a dozen or more rimfire cartridges for
every 410 shotshell and each will kill anything a 410 will. The
Keystone Crickett comes to mind.
Del
imagine
# what they are meant for. I have never seen specs on .410 slugs.
#410 slugs are ~80 grains ~.39 caliber ~1800 fps, essentially
#duplicating the ballistics of a .40 muzzleloader (a bore size mostly
#used by target shooters and small game hunters in its time).
Within "arrow-range", that combo would suffice more than adequately
for survival use on deer.
Ive seen many deer killed with one lone buckshot pellet wound. An
80gr .39caliber at 1800fps dwarfs
the hottest buckshot pellet.
Equals performance of many cap and ball revolver loads. Lots of Civil
war guys didn't last too long with a ball in their inards.
Obviously not a first choice for any deer outing, but I'd hate to
stand in front of one at 25yds and try
to catch it in my teeth.
Whiffle ball. Jeez.
Del
Webrat
> # As far as shooting a deer goes, the fact that a given load "can kill"
> # a given animal does NOT mean it is a good idea to deliberately hunt
> # that animal with that load.
>
> Shooting a deer with a survival gun is self-defeating. That much meat
> nails your feet to the ground and draws predators.
Not necessarily. Cook/eat what you can stuff down, pack enough
along for a time - several days, a week, how much depends on
ambient temperature. The remaining carcass will of course draw
scavengers and predators as the poster notes, four legged and two.
Now the question becomes why are you having to resort to a
survival type weapon. Maybe your plane crashes, for whatever
reason, and you want to be found, or it was shot down, and
-who- finds you is as important as surviving. The remaining
carcass is no big thing to -you- if found by four legged critters,
entirely different if found by the two legged variety. (As I
was told by a survivor of the Hanoi Hilton I know personally,
he would much rather have been found by almost anyone else.)