45-70 Bolt Actions

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peterw...@hotmail.com

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Oct 6, 2007, 8:29:46 PM10/6/07
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Looking in the Google archives, I found that several people have
expressed an interest in obtaining a bolt action rifle in 45-70
caliber, most commonly done by converting a Siamese Mauser or P-14
Enfield. Many have suggested instead getting a 458 Winchester magnum
and loading it down, or using the 458 X 2" wildcat.

Now the 450 Marlin is available, and any bolt action with a H&H magnum
bolt face can ve easily adopted to it. It is also available as a
factory chambering from Steyr. Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
older cartridge in a bolt action?

Thank you,
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist


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trippin-2-8-trak

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:07:09 AM10/7/07
to
Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
# older cartridge in a bolt action?


rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for decades now

that cartridge has staying power

Clark Magnuson

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:07:12 AM10/7/07
to
I built a 45/70 on a 91/30 action with a Shilen Chrome Moly bull barrel.
It is single shot and kicks like a mule.
I ground a tool to cut the bolt face.
I cut the extractor relief cut in the breech face of the barrel with
incremental rotations of the barrel in the mill vise.

Natman

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:07:21 AM10/7/07
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On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:29:46 +0000 (UTC), peterw...@hotmail.com
wrote:

#Looking in the Google archives, I found that several people have
#expressed an interest in obtaining a bolt action rifle in 45-70
#caliber, most commonly done by converting a Siamese Mauser or P-14
#Enfield. Many have suggested instead getting a 458 Winchester magnum
#and loading it down, or using the 458 X 2" wildcat.
#
#Now the 450 Marlin is available, and any bolt action with a H&H magnum
#bolt face can ve easily adopted to it. It is also available as a
#factory chambering from Steyr. Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
#ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
#older cartridge in a bolt action?

No. Actions that can feed a rimmed round are rare and/or obsolete. As
you point out, the 450 Marlin feeds much better from a bolt action.
The 450 Marlin is factory loaded *much* hotter that factory 45-70
loads, although it is possible to match it with 45-70 handloads.

sta...@prolynx.com

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:07:32 AM10/7/07
to
On Oct 6, 6:29 pm, peterweze...@hotmail.com wrote:
# Looking in the Google archives, I found that several people have
# expressed an interest in obtaining a bolt action rifle in 45-70
# caliber, most commonly done by converting a Siamese Mauser or P-14
# Enfield. Many have suggested instead getting a 458 Winchester magnum
# and loading it down, or using the 458 X 2" wildcat.
#
# Now the 450 Marlin is available, and any bolt action with a H&H magnum
# bolt face can ve easily adopted to it. It is also available as a
# factory chambering from Steyr. Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
# older cartridge in a bolt action?
#
# Thank you,
# Peter Wezeman
# anti-social Darwinist
#
I see no reason to use it in a bolt action at all, but different guns
for different tastes. From the decades-old gun rag articles, the main
interest was in getting a cheap rifle out of the effort that could be
hotted up to near .458 Mag ballistics using cheap brass. Siamese
Mausers were cheap surplus at the time and there were still a few semi-
inletted stock makers where wood could be had cheaply. Times change,
you can get a Marlin in either .450 Marlin or .45-70 for a lot cheaper
than you can find and hack up a surplus rifle, since they're no longer
surplus any more but collector's items. Only reason to use a .45-70
in such a gun is that 1) you already have one from the past, and/or 2)
you're a handloader and brass is more available. The .450 Marlin was
made up for the non-handloader using a lever gun, not much difference
between the factory loads and hot .45-70 handloads. For a custom bolt
gun, I can think of a lot more desirable cartridges for the bucks than
either of those two. If you're going to go for a magnum bolt face
anyway, go with the .458 Magnum or its derivatives. For a off-the-
shelf big-bore repeater, I'd plunk down the bucks for the 1895 in .
45-70 and a set of dies. It'll handle any game on this continent and a
lot in Afrca, too.

Stan

Thomas Reynolds

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:07:42 AM10/7/07
to

<peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fe999q$7u1$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...

# Looking in the Google archives, I found that several people have
# expressed an interest in obtaining a bolt action rifle in 45-70
# caliber, most commonly done by converting a Siamese Mauser or P-14
# Enfield. Many have suggested instead getting a 458 Winchester magnum
# and loading it down, or using the 458 X 2" wildcat.
#
# Now the 450 Marlin is available, and any bolt action with a H&H magnum
# bolt face can ve easily adopted to it. It is also available as a
# factory chambering from Steyr. Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
# older cartridge in a bolt action?
#
# Thank you,
# Peter Wezeman
# anti-social Darwinist

(Are you against Social Darwinism, or are you a Darwinist who doesn't play
well with others?)
The ballistics for the factory loads are very different. There is really no
way to discuss the comparable ballistics of hand loads given how many
variations folks come up with. Your question might really be why would
anyone buy any 45-70 since the .450 Marlin is available, but that would
start a long line of questions concerning the 30-06 given the .308 or the
300 Winmag, etc.

Guns...@accurate.net

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:07:44 AM10/7/07
to
IK own both a .45-70 (in a Marlin) and a .458x2" American (on a P-17).
The two are nearly idential ballistically, except the .458 can be
loaded hotter in the bolt action. The .450 Marlin is essentially a
domesticated version of the .458x2, with the belt thickened a bit so
you can't accidntally chamber and fire it in your 7mm Rem Mag.

My bore is not quite smooth enough to shoot well with cast bullets,
but with the proper jacketed loads, it'll do better than
minute-of-angle. It's not a gun for plinking or for the faint of
heart, but I like it.

Short answer to your question is, there's no practical reason to put a
..45-70 on a bolt action. But how many us acquire firearms for purely
practical reasons?

TS

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:29:46 +0000 (UTC), peterw...@hotmail.com
wrote:

> ...

Bluehawk99

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:07:48 AM10/7/07
to
Peter I opted for the .458 Win Mag in a Czech VZ24 Mauser action and
can tell you it is much more comfortable shooting with it's stock than
shooting high pressure .45-70 rounds from the lever action Marlin
stocks with bullet weight and velocites being equal (300 grain lead
alloy bullet...2100fps).
I also have the option to go to full power magnum loads if the need
arises.
I never truly understood the reason Marlin developed the .450 as their
1895 .45-70 can handle loads far above the original 28,000 PSI loads
established for the older rolling blocks, Sharps and Trapdoors unless
it was because many folks don't hand load.

George

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:07:49 AM10/7/07
to
# ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
# older cartridge in a bolt action?
#

The .450 is a lot more likely to go away than the .45/70; I wouldn't expect
it to happen though.
George in Las Vegas

Ron Bloom

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:07:57 AM10/7/07
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<peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fe999q$7u1$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...

The Remington-Lee


> ...

oldpink

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:30:24 PM10/7/07
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trippin-2-8-trak wrote:
# Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# # ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
# # older cartridge in a bolt action?
#
#
# rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for decades now
#
# that cartridge has staying power

Cowboy action shooting and some hunters in the deep woods who don't like
their deer to run far when hit are the main reasons for its longevity.
It's also originally a military cartrige, as are the .45 ACP, .45 Colt,
..30-06, .308, 9mm, and .223.
--
And what exactly is a joke?
.

sta...@prolynx.com

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:31:16 PM10/7/07
to
On Oct 7, 6:07 am, Bluehawk99 <Bluehaw...@aol.com> wrote:
# Peter I opted for the .458 Win Mag in a Czech VZ24 Mauser action and
# can tell you it is much more comfortable shooting with it's stock than
# shooting high pressure .45-70 rounds from the lever action Marlin
# stocks with bullet weight and velocites being equal (300 grain lead
# alloy bullet...2100fps).
# I also have the option to go to full power magnum loads if the need
# arises.
# I never truly understood the reason Marlin developed the .450 as their
# 1895 .45-70 can handle loads far above the original 28,000 PSI loads
# established for the older rolling blocks, Sharps and Trapdoors unless
# it was because many folks don't hand load.
#
As I said above, the .450 was developed for the weekend hunter with NO
interest in handloading. There ARE guys out there, lots of them and
probably ones that don't read this list, that actually leave their
brass at the range and in the field. Buy a box of "bullets" and make
it last for 5 seasons. It's new and also a novelty, a belted "magnum"
in a lever gun, so there's two items to get the hordes interested in
buying a new gun. Off-the-shelf factory loads for the .45-70 aren't
really thrilling, ballistics-wise. Haven't seen sales figures for the
gun or ammo, though and I'll bet the die sales chart shows it
somewhere around the bottom, around 5.5 Velo Dog.

Stan

Natman

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:31:31 PM10/7/07
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On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:09 +0000 (UTC), "trippin-2-8-trak"
<hs...@epix.net> wrote:

#Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
## ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
## older cartridge in a bolt action?
#
#
#rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for decades now
#
#that cartridge has staying power
#
#
Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
assured.

Natman

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Oct 7, 2007, 8:31:35 PM10/7/07
to
On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:48 +0000 (UTC), Bluehawk99
<Blueh...@aol.com> wrote:

#Peter I opted for the .458 Win Mag in a Czech VZ24 Mauser action and
#can tell you it is much more comfortable shooting with it's stock than
#shooting high pressure .45-70 rounds from the lever action Marlin
#stocks with bullet weight and velocites being equal (300 grain lead
#alloy bullet...2100fps).
#I also have the option to go to full power magnum loads if the need
#arises.
#I never truly understood the reason Marlin developed the .450 as their
#1895 .45-70 can handle loads far above the original 28,000 PSI loads
#established for the older rolling blocks, Sharps and Trapdoors unless
#it was because many folks don't hand load.

Exactly. It was for folks who don't handload. The 450 Marlin gives
warm handloaded 45-70 ballistics without the worry that the ammo will
be fired in some weak blackpowder rifle.

Thomas Reynolds

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Oct 8, 2007, 8:04:33 AM10/8/07
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"Natman" <nat_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:febtp3$9qs$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:09 +0000 (UTC), "trippin-2-8-trak"
# <hs...@epix.net> wrote:
#
# #Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# ## ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
# ## older cartridge in a bolt action?
# #
# #

# #rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for decades
# now
# #

# #that cartridge has staying power
# #
# #

# Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
# actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
# assured.
You can use *bullets* in bolt actions which would be dangerous in a tube fed
lever action like the Marlin 45-70 which is a possible use for the bolt
action.

Anthony W

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Oct 8, 2007, 8:04:39 AM10/8/07
to
Natman wrote:

# Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt

# actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
# assured.

I seem to remember some pattern 14 Enfields being rebarreled to .45-70.
If a bolt action rifle can feed .303 Brit, why can't a one feed .45-70?

Tony

jadel

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Oct 8, 2007, 7:30:14 PM10/8/07
to
On Oct 7, 8:31 pm, sta...@prolynx.com wrote:
# Oct 7, 6:07 am, Bluehawk99 <Bluehaw...@aol.com> wrote:
# There ARE guys out there, lots of them and
# probably ones that don't read this list, that actually leave their
# brass at the range ...

I was at the range the other day and found half a dozen brand new,
nickel-plated .300 Win mag. cases. Somebody there had money to burn.
I took them home, and I don't even own a .300 Win Mag.

Given that metal theft has become a serious problem in WV, I'm
surprised the thieves aren't scrounging the local gun range.

J. Del Col

oldpink

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Oct 8, 2007, 7:31:19 PM10/8/07
to
Thomas Reynolds wrote:
# "Natman" <nat_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
# news:febtp3$9qs$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# # On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:09 +0000 (UTC), "trippin-2-8-trak"

# # <hs...@epix.net> wrote:
# #
# # #Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# # ## ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
# # ## older cartridge in a bolt action?
# # #
# # #

# # #rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for decades
# # now

# # #
# # #that cartridge has staying power
# # #
# # #

# # Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
# # actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
# # assured.
# You can use *bullets* in bolt actions which would be dangerous in a tube fed
# lever action like the Marlin 45-70 which is a possible use for the bolt
# action.

You are talking about spitzers.
Hornady has recently come out with the LeveRevolution bullet, which uses
what they describe as an elastomer tipped spitzer that allows pointed
bullets without the danger of a chain fire in the magazine tube.


--
And what exactly is a joke?
.

Herb Leong

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Oct 9, 2007, 7:20:00 AM10/9/07
to
In article <feeek7$c41$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>,
oldpink <misass...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#Hornady has recently come out with the LeveRevolution bullet, which uses
# what they describe as an elastomer tipped spitzer that allows pointed
#bullets without the danger of a chain fire in the magazine tube.

My wife would be a lot happier if Hornady started selling them as
components instead of only in loaded rounds.

/herb

Thomas Reynolds

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Oct 9, 2007, 7:20:02 AM10/9/07
to

"oldpink" <misass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:feeek7$c41$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# Thomas Reynolds wrote:
# # "Natman" <nat_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
# # news:febtp3$9qs$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# # # On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:09 +0000 (UTC), "trippin-2-8-trak"

# # # <hs...@epix.net> wrote:
# # #
# # # #Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# # # ## ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use
# the
# # # ## older cartridge in a bolt action?

# # # #
# # # #
# # # #rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for
# decades
# # # now
# # # #
# # # #that cartridge has staying power

# # # #
# # # #
# # # Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
# # # actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
# # # assured.
# # You can use *bullets* in bolt actions which would be dangerous in a tube
# fed
# # lever action like the Marlin 45-70 which is a possible use for the bolt
# # action.
#
# You are talking about spitzers.
# Hornady has recently come out with the LeveRevolution bullet, which uses
# what they describe as an elastomer tipped spitzer that allows pointed
# bullets without the danger of a chain fire in the magazine tube.
Spitzers are a good example, but some others are risky too.

Natman

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Oct 9, 2007, 7:20:06 AM10/9/07
to
On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:04:33 +0000 (UTC), "Thomas Reynolds"
<tom.re...@verizon.net> wrote:

#
#"Natman" <nat_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
#news:febtp3$9qs$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
## On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:09 +0000 (UTC), "trippin-2-8-trak"
## <hs...@epix.net> wrote:
##
## #Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
## ## ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
## ## older cartridge in a bolt action?
## #
## #
## #rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for decades
## now
## #
## #that cartridge has staying power
## #
## #
## Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
## actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
## assured.
#You can use *bullets* in bolt actions which would be dangerous in a tube fed
#lever action like the Marlin 45-70 which is a possible use for the bolt
#action.
That's quite true. Those bullets would still be better off loaded into
a 450 Marlin than a 45-70 because of the feeding difficulties
presented when trying to use a rimmed cartridge in a bolt action.

Natman

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Oct 9, 2007, 7:20:08 AM10/9/07
to
On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:04:39 +0000 (UTC), Anthony W
<techn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

#Natman wrote:
#
## Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
## actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
## assured.
#
#I seem to remember some pattern 14 Enfields being rebarreled to .45-70.
# If a bolt action rifle can feed .303 Brit, why can't a one feed .45-70?
#
It is certainly *possible* to get a bolt action to feed rimmed
cartridges, witness the Lee Enfield, Siamese Mauser, etc. It's just a
lot *easier* to find one that will feed a cartridge like the 450
Marlin.

JEB

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Oct 9, 2007, 7:20:24 AM10/9/07
to

"Anthony W" <techn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fed6cn$r8s$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# Natman wrote:
#
# # Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
# # actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
# # assured.
#
# I seem to remember some pattern 14 Enfields being rebarreled to .45-70.
# If a bolt action rifle can feed .303 Brit, why can't a one feed .45-70?

The P-14 Enfield can be converted to fire the 45-70. I have a friend in
Auburn, AL who converted one several years ago to 45-70.

John in Reno

oldpink

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Oct 9, 2007, 8:25:41 PM10/9/07
to
Herb Leong wrote:
# In article <feeek7$c41$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>,
# oldpink <misass...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# #Hornady has recently come out with the LeveRevolution bullet, which uses
# # what they describe as an elastomer tipped spitzer that allows pointed
# #bullets without the danger of a chain fire in the magazine tube.
#
# My wife would be a lot happier if Hornady started selling them as
# components instead of only in loaded rounds.

Yeah, I noticed that they hadn't made them available as bullets only yet.
Maybe they are getting pressure from Marlin to keep them in factory ammo
to encourage sales of .450 Marlin.
If those bullets were available to handloaders, the more knowledgeable
handloaders would load up the .45-70 to meet the MV of the .450, making
the newer cartridge unnecessary.


--
And what exactly is a joke?
.

oldpink

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Oct 9, 2007, 8:25:44 PM10/9/07
to
Thomas Reynolds wrote:
# "oldpink" <misass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
# news:feeek7$c41$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# # Thomas Reynolds wrote:
# # # "Natman" <nat_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
# # # news:febtp3$9qs$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# # # # On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:09 +0000 (UTC), "trippin-2-8-trak"

# # # # <hs...@epix.net> wrote:
# # # #
# # # # #Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# # # # ## ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use
# # the
# # # # ## older cartridge in a bolt action?

# # # # #
# # # # #
# # # # #rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for
# # decades
# # # # now

# # # # #
# # # # #that cartridge has staying power

# # # # #
# # # # #
# # # # Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
# # # # actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
# # # # assured.
# # # You can use *bullets* in bolt actions which would be dangerous in a tube
# # fed
# # # lever action like the Marlin 45-70 which is a possible use for the bolt
# # # action.
# #

# # You are talking about spitzers.
# # Hornady has recently come out with the LeveRevolution bullet, which uses
# # what they describe as an elastomer tipped spitzer that allows pointed
# # bullets without the danger of a chain fire in the magazine tube.
# Spitzers are a good example, but some others are risky too.

Just curious here, but what others are there?
Are you talking about FMJ round noses?


--
And what exactly is a joke?
.

oldpink

unread,
Oct 9, 2007, 8:25:47 PM10/9/07
to
Natman wrote:
# On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:04:33 +0000 (UTC), "Thomas Reynolds"
# <tom.re...@verizon.net> wrote:
#
# #

# #"Natman" <nat_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
# #news:febtp3$9qs$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# ## On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:09 +0000 (UTC), "trippin-2-8-trak"
# ## <hs...@epix.net> wrote:
# ##
# ## #Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# ## ## ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
# ## ## older cartridge in a bolt action?

# ## #
# ## #
# ## #rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for decades
# ## now
# ## #

# ## #that cartridge has staying power
# ## #
# ## #
# ## Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
# ## actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
# ## assured.
# #You can use *bullets* in bolt actions which would be dangerous in a tube fed
# #lever action like the Marlin 45-70 which is a possible use for the bolt
# #action.
# That's quite true. Those bullets would still be better off loaded into
# a 450 Marlin than a 45-70 because of the feeding difficulties
# presented when trying to use a rimmed cartridge in a bolt action.

Actually, you mean MOST bolt actions.
The Mosin-Nagant uses the rimmed 7.62x54R.


--
And what exactly is a joke?
.

oldpink

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Oct 9, 2007, 8:25:50 PM10/9/07
to
jadel wrote:
# On Oct 7, 8:31 pm, sta...@prolynx.com wrote:
# # Oct 7, 6:07 am, Bluehawk99 <Bluehaw...@aol.com> wrote:
# # There ARE guys out there, lots of them and
# # probably ones that don't read this list, that actually leave their
# # brass at the range ...
#
# I was at the range the other day and found half a dozen brand new,
# nickel-plated .300 Win mag. cases. Somebody there had money to burn.
# I took them home, and I don't even own a .300 Win Mag.
#
# Given that metal theft has become a serious problem in WV, I'm
# surprised the thieves aren't scrounging the local gun range.

My belief regarding those metal thieves is that the vast majority of
them are meth heads.


--
And what exactly is a joke?
.

Natman

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Oct 10, 2007, 7:14:43 AM10/10/07
to
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:25:47 +0000 (UTC), oldpink
<misass...@yahoo.com> wrote:

#Natman wrote:
## On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:04:33 +0000 (UTC), "Thomas Reynolds"
## <tom.re...@verizon.net> wrote:
##
## #
## #"Natman" <nat_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
## #news:febtp3$9qs$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
## ## On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:09 +0000 (UTC), "trippin-2-8-trak"


## ## <hs...@epix.net> wrote:
## ##

## ## #Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
## ## ## ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to use the
## ## ## older cartridge in a bolt action?
## ## #
## ## #
## ## #rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for decades
## ## now
## ## #
## ## #that cartridge has staying power
## ## #
## ## #
## ## Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for *bolt
## ## actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
## ## assured.
## #You can use *bullets* in bolt actions which would be dangerous in a tube fed
## #lever action like the Marlin 45-70 which is a possible use for the bolt
## #action.
## That's quite true. Those bullets would still be better off loaded into
## a 450 Marlin than a 45-70 because of the feeding difficulties
## presented when trying to use a rimmed cartridge in a bolt action.
#
#Actually, you mean MOST bolt actions.
#The Mosin-Nagant uses the rimmed 7.62x54R.


Yes, quite so. It is certainly *possible* to get a bolt action to feed
rimmed cartridges, witness the Lee Enfield, Siamese Mauser and, as
you point out, the Moisin-Nagant.

It's just a lot *easier* to find one that will feed a cartridge like
the 450 Marlin.

trippin-2-8-trak

unread,
Oct 10, 2007, 7:14:41 AM10/10/07
to
yes, it would put a big hole in a deer...but to quote a guy I know who once
hunted deer with a 444 Marlin, he said "it puts a big f-g hole in them, and
ruins too much meat" and he stopped using it

the 45-70 was also popular with fisherman, for shooting sharks and such that
were caught accidentally in nets or on long lines

ps- if you're quoting military cartridges, why leave out the 30-40 Krag, 6mm
Lee Navy, 45 Colt, and 56-50 Spencer from your list...among others...


# Cowboy action shooting and some hunters in the deep woods who don't like
# their deer to run far when hit are the main reasons for its longevity.
# It's also originally a military cartrige, as are the .45 ACP, .45 Colt,
# ..30-06, .308, 9mm, and .223.

Thomas Reynolds

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Oct 10, 2007, 7:14:45 AM10/10/07
to

"oldpink" <misass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:feh668$hk5$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# Thomas Reynolds wrote:
# # "oldpink" <misass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
# # news:feeek7$c41$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# # # Thomas Reynolds wrote:
# # # # "Natman" <nat_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
# # # # news:febtp3$9qs$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# # # # # On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:07:09 +0000 (UTC), "trippin-2-8-trak"

# # # # # <hs...@epix.net> wrote:
# # # # #
# # # # # #Since the 450 Marlin is virtually a
# # # # # ## ballistic twin to the 45-70, is there any practical reason to
# use
# # # the
# # # # # ## older cartridge in a bolt action?

# # # # # #
# # # # # #
# # # # # #rumors of the 45-70's "death" have been greatly exaggerated, for
# # # decades
# # # # # now

# # # # # #
# # # # # #that cartridge has staying power

# # # # # #
# # # # # #
# # # # # Nobody said the 45-70 was dying, just that it isn't suitable for
# *bolt
# # # # # actions*. Its future in levers and single shots is pretty well
# # # # # assured.
# # # # You can use *bullets* in bolt actions which would be dangerous in a
# tube
# # # fed
# # # # lever action like the Marlin 45-70 which is a possible use for the
# bolt
# # # # action.
# # #
# # # You are talking about spitzers.
# # # Hornady has recently come out with the LeveRevolution bullet, which
# uses
# # # what they describe as an elastomer tipped spitzer that allows pointed
# # # bullets without the danger of a chain fire in the magazine tube.
# # Spitzers are a good example, but some others are risky too.
#
# Just curious here, but what others are there?
# Are you talking about FMJ round noses?
Boat tails (or any other shape which can fire the round in front of it in a
tube during recoil).

cmeek...@gmail.com

unread,
Oct 10, 2007, 7:15:26 AM10/10/07
to
On Oct 6, 6:29 pm, peterweze...@hotmail.com wrote:
> ...

I have see a SMLE done in 45-70

oldpink

unread,
Oct 10, 2007, 9:02:20 AM10/10/07
to
trippin-2-8-trak wrote:
# yes, it would put a big hole in a deer...but to quote a guy I know who once
# hunted deer with a 444 Marlin, he said "it puts a big f-g hole in them, and
# ruins too much meat" and he stopped using it
#
# the 45-70 was also popular with fisherman, for shooting sharks and such that
# were caught accidentally in nets or on long lines
#
# ps- if you're quoting military cartridges, why leave out the 30-40 Krag, 6mm
# Lee Navy, 45 Colt, and 56-50 Spencer from your list...among others...

Yeah, I know I left out the Krag, Lee, and Spencer, but look again on
the Colt.
;-)
btw...random trivia for you...the .220 Swift is the 6mm Lee Navy necked
down to .224.

# # Cowboy action shooting and some hunters in the deep woods who don't like
# # their deer to run far when hit are the main reasons for its longevity.
# # It's also originally a military cartrige, as are the .45 ACP, .45 Colt,
^^^^^^
See?
# # ..30-06, .308, 9mm, and .223.


--
And what exactly is a joke?
.

oldpink

unread,
Oct 10, 2007, 9:02:24 AM10/10/07
to
Thomas Reynolds wrote:
[...]

# # # # You are talking about spitzers.
# # # # Hornady has recently come out with the LeveRevolution bullet, which
# # uses
# # # # what they describe as an elastomer tipped spitzer that allows pointed
# # # # bullets without the danger of a chain fire in the magazine tube.
# # # Spitzers are a good example, but some others are risky too.

# #
# # Just curious here, but what others are there?
# # Are you talking about FMJ round noses?
# Boat tails (or any other shape which can fire the round in front of it in a
# tube during recoil).

Uh, no.
Boattails are no more likely than any other bullet to cause a chain fire.
Boattail refers to the beveled trailing edge on the bullet that is
always covered by the cartridge neck.
I can only assume that you meant "spitzer," that is pointed bullets, but
I already used that term, as you can see here.


--
And what exactly is a joke?
.

oldpink

unread,
Oct 10, 2007, 9:02:28 AM10/10/07
to
Natman wrote:
[...]

# #Actually, you mean MOST bolt actions.
# #The Mosin-Nagant uses the rimmed 7.62x54R.
#
#
# Yes, quite so. It is certainly *possible* to get a bolt action to feed
# rimmed cartridges, witness the Lee Enfield, Siamese Mauser and, as
# you point out, the Moisin-Nagant.
#
# It's just a lot *easier* to find one that will feed a cartridge like
# the 450 Marlin.

No argument there.
I think those who have their heart set on the most powerful action for
the .45-70 need look no further than the Ruger No. 3 and No. 1, both of
which have at one time or another been available in that caliber.
The No. 1 is also particularly handsome.


--
And what exactly is a joke?
.

Thomas Reynolds

unread,
Oct 10, 2007, 2:01:28 PM10/10/07
to

Never saw a boat tail wad cutter, but I have seen spitzers which were not
boat tails... Jeeze, end of thread for me.