H&R "Handy Gun" question
riccia...@oregontrail.net
Quoting cowan from a message in rec.guns
co>I inherited a .410 handgun by Harrington & Richardson, it's called
co>a "Handy-Gun" it chambers a single .410 shell, the barrel breaks
co>and ejects the spent shell. It's a sweet little gun but evidently
co>illegal as hell. I'm afraid I don't know much about guns, this gun
co>was traded to my grandfather who owned a hardware store by a
co>rumrunner, so the story goes ;-). Anyway, I love to fire it but I'm
co>afraid of getting caught and having it taken away. Is there anyway
co>you can legally own this thing without modifying it? I've had lots
co>of offers to buy it but it's the only thing I really have of my
co>grandpa's and I wouldn't know what to take for it anyway. Could I
co>trade it to a dealer legally for something I could actually use
co>without fear of the ATF taking it away? Thanks.
co>--
co>"Instant gratification takes too long."
I really don't believe that what you have is an illegal firearm...
A few years ago the Contender had a barrel that was chambered for the .45
Colt cartridge, but could fire the .410 shotgun shell. BATF "suggested" to
Thompson that they quit making it, but never did they classify it as being
illegal.
Stephen Ricciardelli
riccia...@oregontrail.net
`[1;32;44mNet-Tamer V 1.00.0 - Test Drive
EDevinney
According to the BATF Curio & Relic list, H&R Handy-guns that are
_pistols_ with a smoothbore barrel and total length under 26" are NFA
weapons, as are those smoothbores with a shoulder stock and barrel under
18" (or if a rifled bbl, under 16"). NFA weapons are those which are
subject to the Gun Control Act of 1934 - machine guns, destructive
devices, and short-barreled rifles & shotguns.
If yours falls into those catagories and didn't come to you with a tax
stamp, it's an illegal NFA weapon with all the Federal fines & jail time.
Apparently you can surrender it to the ATF or local police, but I know
nothing about that.
BTW, I'm pretty sure that the .45/.410 Contender barrel is rifled, with a
'shot straightener' dingus used with the .410 shell both as a choke and to
kill off the spin of the rifling.
Cheers -
ed
Ed Devinney
edev...@aol.com(w),Devin...@mediasoft.net(h)
``You've got to be esthetically perfect to be an octopus thrower.''
Woodrow W. Baker
OldTownSta (oldto...@aol.com) wrote:
: Sorry, but the H&R Handy Gun is absolutely illegal, unless it was
: registered with the feds PRIOR to the expiration of the amnesty period.
: There is NO WAY to register an unregistered Handy Gun and make it legal at
: this point. (This applies only to the smoothbore Handy Guns made for .410
I would assume that you could take it to a class III dealer, and pay him
arrange to transfer it to him, fill out the paperwork and pay the tax.
I believe that this gun falls in the AOW catagory, and would be subject
to the 5.00 Tax.
You certainly should be able to fill out a form 1 to make one. Either way
you will have to pay a healthy fee, and the gov may want to give you a
hassle.
Safest way I would think, is to contact a CLASS III dealer, and see if you
can't work out a transfer to him, and have him then sell it back to you under
the current regs.
I think the original poster was *very* stupid to mention it on the net. I
imagine that he will get his door kicked int by JBT's shortly.
Cheers
Woody
--
Woody Baker Postscript consultant/ hired software gun /flintknapper
kna...@bga.com wo...@knapper.cactus.org
"If you ain't bleedin' you ain't knappin'" -->go ahead, ask me!
Robert Sacher
Just a thought here, would it be legally feasible to re-line the barrel
with a tube for a pistol caliber? This removes the shotgun stigma and
preserves the family momento in a shootable form.
Bob Sacher
TedMary Baden
riccia...@oregontrail.net wrote:
Stephen Ricciardelli
riccia...@oregontrail.net
I think the difference is that the Thompson Contender had
provisions for rifling in the barrel for the .45. The handy gun
does not, therefore I believe it is illegal. Call ATF (from a
telephone booth) and ask them.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
TedMary Baden Internet Technology Systems
ba...@itsnet.com
Internet Access Provided by Internet Technology Systems
It's Bib!
The gun can be registered by a class II manufacturer and then
transferred back to you on a tax-paid form 4. A class III dealer has
to register a piece and pay the tax on it (and wait for approval) just
like the rest of us.
I don't know of any class II who would be willing to do this since
they could view it as a conspiracy to commit a felony. Up until they
fill out the form 2 to register the gun it is an unregistered piece
which they did not manufacture. In the case of "found" machineguns
they can only be registered as a post-86 gun which is only available
to LEO. The class II I know basically take the position that they
don't even want to hear the story as it could make them an accessory
to commit a felony.
"You might very well think that, but I could not possibly comment." Francis Urquhart "House of Cards"
OldTownSta
<<Just a thought here, would it be legally feasible to re-line the barrel
with a tube for a pistol caliber? This removes the shotgun stigma and
preserves the family momento in a shootable form.>>
It's a creative approach, that's for sure... but then wouldn't you have to
get BATF approval to "manufacture" a firearm? It's be like converting an
illegal, unregistered full auto to semi-auto. Don't think it can be done
legally.
Barry L. Van Hook
In article <4n0326$t...@xring.cs.umd.edu> Robert Sacher <rfsa...@class.org>
writes:
#Just a thought here, would it be legally feasible to re-line the
All anyone could do with your question is speculate; the ATF would probably be
the only ones to ask, but given their standard view of "once an xxxxxx, always
an xxxxxx," I wouldn't hold my breath.
Barry L. Van Hook (van...@asu.edu)
Management Department, College of Business
Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ 85287-4006
Phone (602) 965-1217 FAX (602) 965-8314
James P. Callison
In article <4mq7tu$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
OldTownSta <oldto...@aol.com> wrote:
#Sorry, but the H&R Handy Gun is absolutely illegal, unless it was
#registered with the feds PRIOR to the expiration of the amnesty period.
#There is NO WAY to register an unregistered Handy Gun and make it legal at
#this point. (This applies only to the smoothbore Handy Guns made for .410
#or other shotshells. A few rifled Handy Guns in.22 & other calibers are
#perfectly legal). Possession of an unregistered smoothbore Handy Gun is
#worth jail time and a substantial fine.
We've had a few Handy Guns come through the shop; at one point, we actually
had two come through in one week!
If you have one, FIND THE REGISTRATION PAPERS ASAP! If you can't find
the papers, CALL A LAWYER ASAP! Without the registration papers, that
firearm is illegal and, as stated above, worth significant jail time
and a stout fine.
We found that you actually have three alternatives:
1) have ATF cut it up/otherwise dispose of it;
2) have it deactivated (by filling up the barrel with lead, etc.)
and turn it into a paperweight/lamp/etc.
3) donate it to a museum (in Oklahoma, we usually send them
to the JM Davis Gun Museum in Claremore or the 45th Infantry
Museum in Oklahoma City)
However, you would be well advised to obtain legal counsel before
attempting to follow any of those courses of action, as you may be
held liable for being in violation of Federal law...
Of course, the most fun we had was when a guy brought in a collection
of firearms his grandfather had brought back from South America many
years ago...among them were several uninteresting home-made smoothbore
pistols, plus a rather interesting find--an Argentine (?) copy of
a Schnell-fuhrer--a select-fire broomhandle Mauser pistol.
Needless to say, the Oklahoma City BATF office was _VERY_ interested
in that one.
James
James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator U of Oklahoma Law Center
Call...@jefferson.law.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
A-R-DISCLAIMER: Since I ain't OU's legal counsel, these ain't OU's opinions.
Keith Whaley
James P. Callison wrote:
#
# In article <4mq7tu$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
# OldTownSta <oldto...@aol.com> wrote:
# #Sorry, but the H&R Handy Gun is absolutely illegal, unless it was
# #registered with the feds PRIOR to the expiration of the amnesty period.
# #There is NO WAY to register an unregistered Handy Gun and make it legal at
# #this point. (This applies only to the smoothbore Handy Guns made for .410
# #or other shotshells. A few rifled Handy Guns in.22 & other calibers are
# #perfectly legal). Possession of an unregistered smoothbore Handy Gun is
# #worth jail time and a substantial fine.
#
# We've had a few Handy Guns come through the shop; at one point, we actually
# had two come through in one week!
#
# If you have one, FIND THE REGISTRATION PAPERS ASAP! If you can't find
# the papers, CALL A LAWYER ASAP! Without the registration papers, that
# firearm is illegal and, as stated above, worth significant jail time
# and a stout fine.
#
# We found that you actually have three alternatives:
# 1) have ATF cut it up/otherwise dispose of it;
# 2) have it deactivated (by filling up the barrel with lead, etc.)
# and turn it into a paperweight/lamp/etc.
# 3) donate it to a museum (in Oklahoma, we usually send them
# to the JM Davis Gun Museum in Claremore or the 45th Infantry
# Museum in Oklahoma City)
# However, you would be well advised to obtain legal counsel before
# attempting to follow any of those courses of action, as you may be
# held liable for being in violation of Federal law...
#
# Of course, the most fun we had was when a guy brought in a collection
# of firearms his grandfather had brought back from South America many
# years ago...among them were several uninteresting home-made smoothbore
# pistols, plus a rather interesting find--an Argentine (?) copy of
# a Schnell-fuhrer--a select-fire broomhandle Mauser pistol.
#
# Needless to say, the Oklahoma City BATF office was _VERY_ interested
# in that one.
#
# James
#
# James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator U of Oklahoma Law Center
# Call...@jefferson.law.uoknor.edu
# DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
# A-R-DISCLAIMER: Since I ain't OU's legal counsel, these ain't OU's opinions.
You're going to get in as much trouble if you think that filling the barrel with
lead is an acceptable method of making what ATF calls an "unserviceable weapon." It
ain't!
Yhe "yellow book" says, on page 109, section "M" re NFA firearms:
"An unserviceable weapon is defined as one which is incapable of discharging. . .or
of being readily restored to a firing condition. An acceptable method of rendering
most firearms unserviceable is to fusion weld the chamer closed and fusion weld the
barrel solidly to the frame. . .
Contact the Bureau of ATF, Firearms Technology Branch, Washington, DC 202226 for
instructions."
It simply wouldn't be worth it, to me. . . And ruin the looks of the gun, as well.
Might as well saw it into pieces and find a legal place to toss the trash!
keith
t1...@yahoo.com
in the family I don't know if it was ever registered is there a way to find out ...
and if it was will I ba ableto transfer ownership to myself if the original
owner is gone?
Steve W.
# I also have a handy gun and I love it however it was inherited after a death
# in the family I don't know if it was ever registered is there a way to find out ...
# and if it was will I ba ableto transfer ownership to myself if the original
# owner is gone?
#
Does it have a wire stock on it? If yes it is an SBR and to be fully
legal has to be registered, that means paying the tax stamp fee and
registering it in your name. If it doesn't have a stock it is a pistol
and falls under whatever the pistol requirements are for your area.
IF it has a stock and you want to check to see if it is legal the ATF
can tell you if you contact them and give them the serial number and
make of the firearm. As for the transfer, it would be easier if it was
registered but isn't that hard even if it wasn't. Unless you happen to
be in a state where ownership isn't legal, so check the local laws first....
--
Steve W.