.410 Lee-Enfield?

[Scott Jacoby]

There is a gun that came into the local gun shop recently that I haven't
seen before. It is a Lee-Enfield that is chambered for the .410. It has
Ishapore stamped on it and is a single shot, cock on closing bolt action.
It is in very good shape. Does anybody know anything about this gun or
what it is worth? TIA for any info. Please respond via e-mail as I don't
see all the posts here, even my own.
*********************************************************************
Scott Jacoby - sco...@essex1.com - NRA Endowment, Life -Illinois State Rifle Association (www.prairienet.org/isra), The Wildlife Society, USPSA/IPSC

THOSE who trade essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

Illegitimi Non Carborundum
*********************************************************************

[Titan]

Scott Jacoby wrote:
#
# There is a gun that came into the local gun shop recently that I haven't
# seen before. It is a Lee-Enfield that is chambered for the .410. It has
# Ishapore stamped on it and is a single shot, cock on closing bolt action.
#*******************************************************************
I have seen them for sale for less than $100. They use a special brass
cartridge case similar to an unnecked .303. Ammunition is not generally
available.
--
George Hoffman tit...@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/users/titangh
Webpage contents: Lawrence of Arabia Studies, Brough Motorcycle, SMLE
Rifle, Webley Revolver

[Robert Gibson]

#Scott Jacoby <sco...@essex1.com> asks....
#There is a gun that came into the local gunshop recently that I haven't
#seen before. It is a Lee-Enfield that is chambered for the .410. It has
#Ishapore stamped on it and is a single shot, cock on closing bolt action.
#It is in very good shape. Does anybody know anything about this gun or
#what it's worth? ---snip---

Good afternoon Scott,

Take care as regards this particular Enfield variant, it won't shoot your
standard .410 shotshell....factory .410 shotshells *WILL NOT CHAMBER* in
this rifle, even those at 2-1/2"....much less their 3" big brothers.

I suppose you could ream out the chamber if your gunsmithing skills are up
to the challenge....or farm the work out to a local 'smith. Might cost a
few bucks, you'd then have a SMLE single-shot .410 shotgun for real. The
"worth" of this project is something you'd have to decide for yourself.

I wouldn't, but then that's me....different strokes for different folks.

Reference the following from NRA's staff as found in their nice booklet
entitled _BRITISH ENFIELD RIFLES_....

"Enfield .410-bore shotguns, or more properly ".410 Muskets", were converted
from World War I-vintage SMLE rifles that had been otherwise downgraded from
normal service categories. The work was done at the Indian Rifle Factory at
Ishapore from the 1920s until at least the start of World War II. The conv-
ersion consisted of smooth-boring the rifles' barrels to .410-.412 diameter
and filling the magazine well with a wooden plug, pinned in place and capped
with a thin steel pressing to serve as a loading platform.

SMLE .410 Muskets were intended for use by police or by military guards in
urban areas where firing a regular .303-in. Ball cartridge might cause injury
to innocent bystanders.

Cartridges for the .410 Musket were made from .303 British cartridges, left
unnecked, which accounts for the similarity in rim and case body dimensions
between .410-bore shotshells and the correct cartridge.

An unnecked .303 British cartridge is, however, approximately 0.3" shorter
than even the shortest .410 shotshell, which accounts for the failure of
factory .410 shotshells to chamber. -- E.H.H."

On this subject the nominal cartridge case length of the .303 Brit runs
right at 2.222" OAL while the .410 shotshell runs either 2.5" or 3" OAL.

Ian Skennerton covers the SMLE .410 Musket in some detail in his outstanding
book _THE LEE-ENFIELD STORY_....an interesting variant to the Brit collector
but I wonder if it has any practical value out in the real world?

I haven't the faintest idea of the "value" of one of these .410 Muskets....
I do know I've seen them advertised in _SHOTGUN NEWS_ off and on over the
years at *very* modest prices.

I'm making up for lost time and building up a small Enfield collection, but
I have to say this particular critter is of little interest to me. Just my
own personal feelings of course, someone else might find it fascinating....
especially since you'd have to "roll your own" special shotshells for this
beastie <Grin>.

Hope this is of some value to you.

Robert Gibson

[Walter3465]

These Enfields where converted at Isapore, India during WWII from well
used service rifles. These are marked .410 But DO NOT attempt to fire
modern .410
shotgun rounds thru this rifle. The original .410 that this rifle used
where modified
.303 casings. This info was taken from Skinnertons book on Enfields. I
have seen these before, but I have never heard of any proper ammo being
sold for them. It would be possible to make these .410 rounds. otherwise
it would be a wall hanger only.

[Vvmfuno]

These guns were bored out 303s. They were common in India and given to the
poor chaps who chased the tigers toward the guy with a real gun. I believe
they were around in the 1930s or so. Also there was some gun law in India
which allowed the .410. Weird little gun and you rarely see em.

[spamsnip TONY GEE]

In article <5h1ueo$j...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, tit...@hooked.net says...

# Scott Jacoby wrote:
# #

# # There is a gun that came into the local gun shop recently that I haven't
# # seen before. It is a Lee-Enfield that is chambered for the .410. It has
# # Ishapore stamped on it and is a single shot, cock on closing bolt action.
# #*******************************************************************
# I have seen them for sale for less than $100. They use a special brass
# cartridge case similar to an unnecked .303. Ammunition is not generally
# available.
# --
# George Hoffman tit...@hooked.net
# http://www.hooked.net/users/titangh
# Webpage contents: Lawrence of Arabia Studies, Brough Motorcycle, SMLE
# Rifle, Webley Revolver
#
#
I have seen this ammo for sale at cartridge shows for approx $55 per
cartridge. Definitely a collector`s item.

Tony

[Mr. Ronald C. Bloom ii]

Springfield Sporters 412-254-2626 is selling a version that fires 3
inch U.S. .410 ammo. They are 75 bucks in select condition. I bought
one, it looks brand new, all matching. I am very satisfied!

Ron Bloom
Gun Owners Action League of New York