Best caliber/weapon for SHTF
yin...@hotmail.com
when "stuff" hits the fan?
I say caliber can only be one of few choices:
.223
.308
7.62X39
30'06
12 Ga
I picked these because obviously your caliber must be very abundant in
the current world (i.e. military surplus). Considering that, I say that
here in the U.S that the .308 is the most superior round. Abundant and
used by many rifles. It also has the stopping power required for an end
of the world as we know situation. For instance, it makes a great
hunting round, and will allow you to fight guerilla warfare at the
required distances against any military or police force. .223 just
doesn't cut it for survival purposes or long range individual
hit-and-run tactics.
This leaves you with choices like the FAL, G3, M14, of which M14 is my
favorite and is all I could ever want. A sidearm in either .45 or 9mm is
also nice, but not as important. My choice is the Beretta 92, though I
give it up for a 1911 too.
Opinions?
Yinon
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David charles
still in the market for the 12.
Snake
yin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> ...
David Steuber
-> Here's an open ended question... what's your favorite caliber/weapon for
-> when "stuff" hits the fan?
I already have three of the calibers you listed. I am expecting a
rifle chambered in 30-06 any year now.
How much stuff is hitting the fan anyway? I don't expect stores to be
closed, requiring that I hunt for food. You mentioned guerilla
warfare. That means shooting people. The .223 can do that at ranges
that just might surprise you. Sure, the .308 is better at long
range. No denying that. But we don't live in jungles here in North
America. We live in cities and suburbs. If you want to blend in, you
need to dress like everyone else. Something small, light, and easy to
hide is called for. The .223 is easier to put in that category than
the .308. The price of ammunition makes it easier to stock up on .223
than .308.
Since you plan on bushwacking, you only need enough bullet to do the
job. The .223 will do the job. Mobility is paramount. Less weight
means more mobility. You will want at least a .308 against harder
targets. However, they are probably best avoided.
If you are talking martial law, no hebeas corpus, and NG/Army
everywhere, it seems the .223 has a slight edge. That is also what
the NG/Army will be carrying in case you need to resupply.
If you think about it, there are more effective ways to create a
nuisance than guns. Electrical and communications disruptions,
transportation failures, etc, will piss people off more than a few
shootings will.
The above is purely hypothetical and not endorsed by the author.
--
David Steuber | david at david-steuber dot com preferred
SAJ7580C2 | If you reply to me and the group, please say so
Q: What's a light-year?
A: One-third less calories than a regular year.
TimeR...@lvcm.com
#Here's an open ended question... what's your favorite caliber/weapon for
#when "stuff" hits the fan?
#
#I say caliber can only be one of few choices:
#
#.223
#.308
#7.62X39
#30'06
#12 Ga
Assuming that the "commies" are coming and I have to protect myself
and my family, and I may have to leave home:
My vote is for the .22LR. Why? It is the most widely available
cartridge. Cartridges fit both handguns and rifles. Are "relatively"
quiet. Good accuracy. I can "pack" an extraordinary amount of ammo
and still be able to move cross country. How many -06 or 12Ga rounds
can you carry?
Straight Shootin Y'all...
NiteOwl17
#when "stuff" hits the fan?
Well, since you can only manage to stock up so much ammo, you'll have to rely
on the [bad] cops and guard units to bring your re-supply...
So I'd stick mostly with:
9mm and/or .40cal pistols
.223 and .308 rifles
and a 12 gauge
Scott
Barry S Brummett
it from birds to bucks. You can defend with it. You can't reach out and
touch someone at 200 yards, but you shouldn't *want* to do that anyway,
right? If it's really "the end of the world" as the original poster said,
that's my choice.
Doug Owen
yin...@hotmail.com wrote:
#
# I say caliber can only be one of few choices:
#
# .223
# .308
# 7.62X39
# 30'06
# 12 Ga
#
I'm not all that sure when the end of the world comes that ammo resupply
is an issue. The history of gorilla fighters shows that few rounds are
expended over a long time, considerable work is done with truly outdated
arms and old ammo.
If the issue is taking ammo from the other side, it would seem some of
the chioces depend highly on who that other side is?
Perhaps the issue boils down to 'what you have that fits your needs and
you are comfortable with'? I suspect most of us can afford to stock 'a
lifetime's worth of ammo' under end of the world conditions. Life will
be short enough for most of us....
And on another subject, 'where the duce are our BGC shirts'????
Doug Owen
nb
a mutant urban american population living off the flesh of the hearty and
hale euro-americans in the suburbs? Home invasions? Survival hunting?
You'd probably be better off with a 12 guage shotgun due to the variety and
ubiquity of the ammo.
I'd blow off any of the long range rounds unless you had a large estate with
clear free fire zones or a well-enforced tower for picking off the masses as
they raided your property like locusts in a biblical plague. So .308 and
.30-'06 are out, unless you are somewhere fairly rural. Think of this as
high-powered stress management with a focus on long-range conflict
resolution. Good choices to have on hand anyway, you'll need SOMEthing to
kill deer and other, two-legged varmints with and it it nice to have a
selection.
7.62x39 is great if you have an SKS or AK or MAK you've buried vertically in
your back yard against the possibility of gun confiscation and eventual
civil war II. You can buy two thousand rounds for about 10 cents a pop and
stash it all in six inch PVC pipes.
.223, now THERE's a round. Causes MASSIVE tissue damage up close and
wounds, making interrogation of your prisoners much more likely if you reach
out and touch them some hundreds of yards away. Round will disintegrate
with contact with sheetrock or window glass making injury to family and
neighbors less likely than the higher-powered rounds. With the right kind of
load, killing out to six hundred yards is POSSIBLE, and can be done
accurately, effectively, with practice. The ammo is cheap (right now) and
plentiful.
Whatever you get, get it soon. Preban Colt AR15s are selling for $1200 and
over. Buy lots of magazines, too.
Me, if I were deciding now, I'd get a shotgun, like a Mossberg 500 or
Remington 870, a couple of hundred rounds of buckshot and maybe #6 shot for
general hunting and self defense, and I'd get something in .223, FAST, and a
couple of THOUSAND rounds of ammo, just in case.
Hey, have you ever complained about paying your homeowner's insurance? Not
much? Well, think of the guns as a "rider," on your policy. One more
likely to pay off in the long run.
Security is peace of mind.
-Norm Balog
Director of Medical Affairs, mcdl.org
yin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> ...
Fred Cerutti
David Steuber wrote in message <7p11f4$sog$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#yin...@hotmail.com writes:
#
#-> Here's an open ended question... what's your favorite caliber/weapon for
#-> when "stuff" hits the fan?
#
#If you are talking martial law, no hebeas corpus, and NG/Army
#everywhere, it seems the .223 has a slight edge. That is also what
#the NG/Army will be carrying in case you need to resupply.
Having served with Uncle for awhile, I've gotta say that few would have the
stomach to go up against even the NG - much less a unit full of Gung-Ho,
bright-eyed, 20 somethings. It's easy to sit at a keyboard and yap about it
(and I understand that David S. is not doing that), but NO caliber\weapon
available to most folks would make one whit of difference to the eventual
outcome.
Fred Cerutti
QUARKS: The dreams stuff is made of....
Mark Gibson
# For me it would be 7.62x39, 9mm, 12Ga. Have the first two and reload.
#still in the market for the 12.
#
# Snake
OK, I'm different...what can I say? For me, it's .22LR (I have several
extremely accurate .22LR pistols and carbines), then 10mm Auto (because I
can't think of a better all-around centerfire pistol cartridge), then 12-guage
2-3/4 to 3-1/2 (because I've got shotguns that work with just about any
12-gauge ammo), and finally .308 (because if I *need* to reach out and
touch someone, I want to be able to do it with authority from farther away
than I can with a .223 .)
Best regards,
Mark Gibson
P.S. I recommend that people stockpile the ammo they need for the
firearms they are most comfortable using. If a person is very good
at shooting a .380 purse gun, she is better off buying a lot of that
ammo than wasting her money on .357 Magnum rounds for a gun she doesn't
like and can't shoot well... You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.
--
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force;
like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master.
Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
-- George Washington, speech of January 7, 1790
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt (AKA Pitt the Elder)
Mark Gibson
##when "stuff" hits the fan?
##
##I say caliber can only be one of few choices:
##
##.223
##.308
##7.62X39
##30'06
##12 Ga
#
#Assuming that the "commies" are coming and I have to protect myself
#and my family, and I may have to leave home:
#My vote is for the .22LR. Why? It is the most widely available
#cartridge. Cartridges fit both handguns and rifles. Are "relatively"
#quiet. Good accuracy. I can "pack" an extraordinary amount of ammo
#and still be able to move cross country. How many -06 or 12Ga rounds
#can you carry?
I agree. .22LR is plenty good and accurate out to 100+ meters if
you have the right firearm(s). Almost anyone can afford to buy tens
of thousands of rounds of it to practice with on a regular basis and/or
store for emergencies. It is good for bagging small game to eat
and one or more decent hits will put a serious hurt on an attacker.
I've often said that I'd rather have a .22LR pistol of my choosing
than any .44Mag handgun for self-defense purposes, mostly because
I know I can hit my chosen target(s) several times with a .22LR pistol
in the time it takes me to hit one target for sure with a .44 Mag
handgun.
Ideally, of course, we'd all have a variety of firearms and appropriate
ammo on hand to choose from, so we would have exactly the right tools
for any self-defense or survival job at hand. This isn't an ideal world...
Best regards,
Mark Gibson
NRA Life, SAF Life, ISRA, JPFO, GOA
Moderator of Glock-L, 1911-L, 10mm-L, Ten-22-L, DefGun-L, and RKBA-L
Scott Jacoby
<phoenix...@mindspring.com> wrote:
# David Steuber wrote in message <7p11f4$sog$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# #yin...@hotmail.com writes:
# #
# #-> Here's an open ended question... what's your favorite caliber/weapon for
# #-> when "stuff" hits the fan?
#
# #
# #If you are talking martial law, no hebeas corpus, and NG/Army
# #everywhere, it seems the .223 has a slight edge. That is also what
# #the NG/Army will be carrying in case you need to resupply.
#
#
# Having served with Uncle for awhile, I've gotta say that few would have the
# stomach to go up against even the NG - much less a unit full of Gung-Ho,
# bright-eyed, 20 somethings. It's easy to sit at a keyboard and yap about it
# (and I understand that David S. is not doing that), but NO caliber\weapon
# available to most folks would make one whit of difference to the eventual
# outcome.
#
#
# Fred Cerutti
Interesting comment. I can just imagine somebody saying something similar
to George Washington about regular British troops.
****************************************************************
Scott Jacoby - sco...@essex1.com - NRA Endowment; Life -Illinois State Rifle Association (www.isra.org); The Wildlife Society -
Certified Wildlife Biologist
- - - - Illegitimi Non Carborundum Est - - - -
THOSE who trade essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Bad officials are the ones elected by good citizens who do not vote.
George Jean Nathan
****************************************************************
Frank Silbermann
##-> Here's an open ended question... what's your favorite caliber/weapon for
##-> when "stuff" hits the fan?
##
##
## If you are talking martial law, no hebeas corpus, and NG/Army
## everywhere, it seems the .223 has a slight edge. That is also what
## the NG/Army will be carrying in case you need to resupply.
If you can get at the NG/Army's ammo you can get their guns, too.
But you must begin by taking out the sentries. That means a rifle that's:
(1) light, compact and handy (so you can take the battle to the enemy)
(2) adequately powered (you're not even trying to overload the enemy's
immense support system by wounding many soldiers -- rather, you have
to destroy the enemy's will to fight by making them face death)
(3) accurate (distance is your friend)
(4) rugged and forgiving of poor quality ammo (you may have to settle
for whatever you can get)
(5) effective at a wide range of distances
(6) likely to stay in your possession during the sausage-slicing stage
(when the government pretends to be only after "evil" military guns)
I think Jeff Cooper's scout rifle concept makes the best SHTF gun.
That is, a light, compact, bolt-action .308 with a low-powered
forward-mounted scope.
Fred Cerutti
Scott Jacoby wrote in message <7p825v$jqr$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#In article <7p77ra$ffr$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "Fred Cerutti"
#<phoenix...@mindspring.com> wrote:
#
## David Steuber wrote in message <7p11f4$sog$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
## #yin...@hotmail.com writes:
## #
## #-> Here's an open ended question... what's your favorite caliber/weapon
for
## #-> when "stuff" hits the fan?
##
## #
## #If you are talking martial law, no hebeas corpus, and NG/Army
## #everywhere, it seems the .223 has a slight edge. That is also what
## #the NG/Army will be carrying in case you need to resupply.
##
##
## Having served with Uncle for awhile, I've gotta say that few would have
the
## stomach to go up against even the NG - much less a unit full of Gung-Ho,
## bright-eyed, 20 somethings. It's easy to sit at a keyboard and yap about
it
## (and I understand that David S. is not doing that), but NO caliber\weapon
## available to most folks would make one whit of difference to the eventual
## outcome.
##
##
## Fred Cerutti
#
#Interesting comment. I can just imagine somebody saying something similar
#to George Washington about regular British troops.
#
#****************************************************************
#Scott Jacoby
Not a valid analogy. During the Revolutionary War, both sides had roughly
equal armament. It was the *perceived* skill at fighting\ organization that
seemed to favor the Brits.
Joe Average and his home arsenal - or even Joe WAAY-Above-Average and his
arsenal - will find it tough going against RPG's, artillery and gunships.
Organized Militia could give a better accounting of themselves for a time,
but the ante could be upped way beyond their ability to defend against
pretty easily if this were really "for all the marbles".
I'm not saying that there are not things worth dying for - only that you
will almost certainly end up doing exactly that (dying) when up against The
Real Thing.
Fred
Bill the Cat
Scott Jacoby <sco...@essex1.com> wrote in message
news:7p825v$jqr$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
| # Fred Cerutti
|
| Interesting comment. I can just imagine somebody saying something similar
|
| Scott Jacoby -
That was my thought also. He didn't listen as he had too much to lose. as do
we all.
dreamwe...@webtv.net
wish...but i cant justify half the guns i have now to the wife...oh well
thats the fun in it). Assuming you didnt wake up to unlimited funds
I'll phrase this in the way i buy most of my guns. Get one/build ammo
supply/save up/start over. I would start with a medium barraled (20in)
12ga. Then store as much 3in coper plated #1, 00, Slugs, and high-brass
#6's as you can afford. then I would try to find a nice .223 "assault
rifle" (you could sub. in a SKS 7.62x39 but the ol 5-5-6 is better
IMHO). Once you have a stock pile of 5.56 ammo I would move on to a
quality double stack auto pistol. My choice would be a Glock .45 for
its power,durability, simplicity, and capacity. If you are counting on
Government sponsered resupply i would go with a 9mm (begrudgingly, since
it would have less "double-duty appeal"). Lastly i would buy a high
quality bolt action rifle in .300 win mag with the best scope you buy.
This would be great for taking out sentrys, hunting, and stoping
vehicles (softer ones..with tactical shot placement). The great thing
about the .300 is that you can hit a target cosistantly and with great
energy beyond the range or the sound. In other words the other guys
will hear a bullet impact and see a guy fall....but never hear the shot.
#From here on out i MAY consider buying a few specialty weapons, but be
carefull. When the zombies are at the door you dont wanna be standing
in your weapons room trying to pick the perfect nich gun. the most
important thing is to know the roles, advantages and disadvantages of
each and ever weapon. that way you dont get stuck with a boltgun when
your in the shit, or with a pistol when your in the snipers nest. I
would also avoid pistol chambered carbins. IMO this totaly defeates the
purpose of having a long unweildy weapon. If you are going to lug a
rifle, atleast get the power advantage out of it.
Jason
Ofcource this is all just postulation in good fun. I dont plan on
storming any federal buildings or starting any Coups.
Dave
long range protection of your family as the cretins diddy-bop up the
street...good head shots to make an impression even on the potheads
coming en mass. When the survivors get close to your place, then use
your Kalashnikov 7.62x39 select-fire, which should give the remaining
mob a jolt or two; as they get closer go to full-auto and spray a few.
The few who get to your house can then be greeted with a 12 ga.
Remington "Bushmaster" in No. 4 or 6 as they come in the door or
windows.Then use your Glock 17 on the wounded survivors. All rifle mags
should be 30 rounders and have plenty loaded - the Glock should have a
dozen loaded clips handy on your web belt.Take no prisioners. That
should discourage the anarchists for a while, anyway.
Dave
Scott Jacoby
<phoenix...@mindspring.com> wrote:
# Scott Jacoby wrote in message <7p825v$jqr$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# #In article <7p77ra$ffr$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "Fred Cerutti"
# #<phoenix...@mindspring.com> wrote:
# #
# ## David Steuber wrote in message <7p11f4$sog$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# ## #yin...@hotmail.com writes:
# ## #
# ## #-> Here's an open ended question... what's your favorite caliber/weapon
# for
# ## #-> when "stuff" hits the fan?
# ##
# ## #
# ## #If you are talking martial law, no hebeas corpus, and NG/Army
# ## #everywhere, it seems the .223 has a slight edge. That is also what
# ## #the NG/Army will be carrying in case you need to resupply.
# ##
# ##
# ## Having served with Uncle for awhile, I've gotta say that few would have
# the
# ## stomach to go up against even the NG - much less a unit full of Gung-Ho,
# ## bright-eyed, 20 somethings. It's easy to sit at a keyboard and yap about
# it
# ## (and I understand that David S. is not doing that), but NO caliber\weapon
# ## available to most folks would make one whit of difference to the eventual
# ## outcome.
# ##
# ##
# ## Fred Cerutti
# #
# #Interesting comment. I can just imagine somebody saying something similar
# #to George Washington about regular British troops.
# #
# #****************************************************************
# #Scott Jacoby
#
# Not a valid analogy. During the Revolutionary War, both sides had roughly
# equal armament. It was the *perceived* skill at fighting\ organization that
# seemed to favor the Brits.
#
# Joe Average and his home arsenal - or even Joe WAAY-Above-Average and his
# arsenal - will find it tough going against RPG's, artillery and gunships.
#
# Organized Militia could give a better accounting of themselves for a time,
# but the ante could be upped way beyond their ability to defend against
# pretty easily if this were really "for all the marbles".
#
# I'm not saying that there are not things worth dying for - only that you
# will almost certainly end up doing exactly that (dying) when up against The
# Real Thing.
#
# Fred
Chechnya (sp).
Afghanastan.
Viet Nam.
Northern Ireland.
****************************************************************
Scott Jacoby - sco...@essex1.com - NRA Endowment; Life -Illinois State Rifle Association (www.isra.org); The Wildlife Society -
Certified Wildlife Biologist
- - - - Illegitimi Non Carborundum Est - - - -
THOSE who trade essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Bad officials are the ones elected by good citizens who do not vote.
George Jean Nathan
****************************************************************
----------------------------------------------------------------------
KE6DHE
#but the ante could be upped way beyond their ability to defend against
#pretty easily if this were really "for all the marbles".
It is interesting to note that when someone talks of the sh*t hitting the fan,
we think of our own Gov. as the bad guys. 'course I
also see it but it is only one of the many
fecal-fan scenarios that would play out.
Look what the Afgani's did to Russia. Yes
many upstanding citizens would be lost
but I will hope, pray and work towards a
political solution before I turn to my gun
and have to face a fellow American's son
and know that one of us will know more about the hereafter than the other.
Whatever hits the fan first I would prefer
to have a .308 gas operated gun and a
1911a1 as a side arm for my wife, .223
also gas operated system as the recoil is
very managable and the rifle light. Just my
own take. Rufo
smil...@my-deja.com
Washington. During the colonial period, the regular British troops and
the American Minutemen were armed with the same weapon. Single shot
musket. Today, the "regular" troops carry fully automatic weapons as
well as armor such as tanks that we as civilians just don't have. This
is not to take away what George Washington did. The army he faced was
much larger and better trained, but they still used the same weapon.
> ...
similar
> ... > ...
deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
smil...@my-deja.com
caliber/weapon
> ...
what
> ...
have
> ...
Gung-Ho,
> ...
about
> ...
caliber\weapon
> ...
eventual
> ...
similar
> ...
roughly
> ...
that
> ...
his
> ...
gunships.
> ...
time,
> ...
you
> ...
against The
> ...
Excellent post Fred, I said the same thing in my post
Fred Cerutti
Scott Jacoby wrote in message <7pagm3$r4g$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#In article <7p92pd$mh7$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "Fred Cerutti"
#<phoenix...@mindspring.com> wrote:
## #Interesting comment. I can just imagine somebody saying something
similar
## #to George Washington about regular British troops.
## #
## #****************************************************************
## #Scott Jacoby
##
## Not a valid analogy. During the Revolutionary War, both sides had roughly
## equal armament. It was the *perceived* skill at fighting\ organization
that
## seemed to favor the Brits.
##
## Joe Average and his home arsenal - or even Joe WAAY-Above-Average and his
## arsenal - will find it tough going against RPG's, artillery and gunships.
##
## Organized Militia could give a better accounting of themselves for a
time,
## but the ante could be upped way beyond their ability to defend against
## pretty easily if this were really "for all the marbles".
##
## I'm not saying that there are not things worth dying for - only that you
## will almost certainly end up doing exactly that (dying) when up against
The
## Real Thing.
##
## Fred
#
#Chechnya (sp).
#Afghanastan.
#Viet Nam.
#Northern Ireland.
Only Vietnam (of the above) involved "The Real Thing" - US Marines \ Army.
As we all know, that conflict was not fought as a war should be fought.
Do you think that the government would respond in half-hearted fashion if it
truly felt it's power base was threatened from within? I don't. I think you
would see a quick and decisive response that would freeze the blood in the
veins of the average rec.gunner.
As I said before, it's not that there are not things worth dying for -
simply expect to do just that when you meet up with a modern US Rifle Team
and it's playmates.
Fred
John
"Fred Cerutti"Wrote:
<<
As I said before, it's not that there are not things worth dying for -
simply expect to do just that when you meet up with a modern US Rifle Team
and it's playmates.
>>
the "elite" Ranger team that got their asses kicked.
IN GLOCK WE TRUST
Robert R. Hollingsworth
#
# There is one major difference between todays time and the time of George
# Washington. During the colonial period, the regular British troops and
# the American Minutemen were armed with the same weapon. Single shot
# musket. Today, the "regular" troops carry fully automatic weapons as
# well as armor such as tanks that we as civilians just don't have. This
# is not to take away what George Washington did. The army he faced was
# much larger and better trained, but they still used the same weapon.
The horror of another civil war is almost to gastly to think about. But
since it has been draged out here are a few thinks perhaps not
considered that when looked at by those that comptemplate tyranny might
prevent there actions.
Not meaning to start any Flame-War or contribute to a Ya-Yah.....
For every Service member on active duty or reserve or guard rolls today,
there are twelve that had the same sort of training and are now
"civilians". The M-109 Gun/Howitzer works pretty much the same today as
it did in 1967. The M-1 tank is not a whole lot different to operate
than it was in 1982. Many of us that toted M-16 A-1 rifles never felt
that full auto fire was that useful. One thing no one has meantioned
about the revolution was the problems the Brits had with German and
British troops just walking away and even joining the forces of old
George Washington, in a civil war that might be an even higher
percentage of the oppressing troops.
I notice that through out the formar Soviet Union various liberation
movements do quite well against modern tanks, guns and aircraft,
starting out with just small arms but having been trained in the use of
such devices during national service use tanks and artillery against the
foe until ammo and other supplies run out.
"The revolutionary must swim like a fish in the sea of the people" so
how many Special Warfare Center fish, er...grads, with their little
green beenies are out there amoung the people? Exactly what was the
purpose of all their training? What, did us say train folks to take up
arms agains the oppressors? And this time they don't even half to learn
a new language?
# Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Amen to that. In the words of the late Senator Hubert Humphrey and once
Democratic party contender for President,
"The right of citizens to keep and bear arems is just one more guarantee
against arbitrary government, one more safe-guard against the tyranny
which now seems remote in America, but which historically had proved to
be always possible."
-Bob Hollingsworth
Fred Cerutti
John wrote in message <7phe1p$ipa$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#
#"Fred Cerutti"Wrote:
#<<
#As I said before, it's not that there are not things worth dying for -
#simply expect to do just that when you meet up with a modern US Rifle Team
#and it's playmates.
# >>
#I guess you should ask the Somalis about
#the "elite" Ranger team that got their asses kicked.
What would you have me ask them? About how they were on their own "home
turf"? About the hundreds of touchy political ramifications adhering to the
kind of police action their opponent (Rangers) were engaged in? About the
incredibly crappy logistics the Rangers were laboring under?
How about if I asked them how easy it was for their opponent to call in a
few big rolling guns, tanks, some choppers, back-up units from the local
Fort\Base\Camp\Post \Armory just across the way? Cause that's how it would
be for a Company fighting here at home. Real easy. Great logistics. You say
Bill-Joe-Bob and his cohorts have gone totally anarchist on us up in them
thar hills? You say this has gotten genuinely out of hand? How about a
little chem action? Better yet, lets make an example of em and light up a
sub-kiloton nuke or a neutron bomb. After all, we must maintain control,
hmm?
Don't kid yourself, Bubba. You may die gloriously, but you WILL die. Not
saying that's a bad thing - just the facts.
Fred