Need Help with Old .45 Colt New Service Revolver Proof Marks
BuZzY
My friend has an old DA Colt "New Service" revolver that was part of the
estate of a Polish national who escaped the Nazis and served in Asia for
the British intelligence people in WWII. It has some interesting proof
marks that we cannot figure out--I have posted a couple of photos:
http://photos.yahoo.com/jcbuzzdavis
Also, instead of the usual "Colt" identification on the barrel, it
reads: "NEW SERVICE [illegible]..ELEY".
However, the "rearing Colt" logo appears on the frame and it wears a
pair of old plastic stocks. Could it have been manufactured under
license by another factory-?
The serial number is 982xx (I am copying the practice I have observed of
obscuring a couple of digits..).
Any help would be appreciated-!
BuZzY
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Prigator
#an old DA Colt "New Service" revolver
#Also, instead of the usual "Colt" identification on the barrel, it
#reads: "NEW SERVICE [illegible]..ELEY".
Are you sure it is chambered for .45 Colt?
Colt also manufactured the New Service chambered for .450 Eley, .455 Eley, and
.476 Eley.
Doug Chandler
BuZzY
.445 variant of this pistol, British, I guess; and the "3" behind the
trigger guard shows up on another two I have seen on the 'net. Still
wonder about the crossed pennants and the strange symbol up near the
hammer. Never studied these big revolvers much until now--
Thanks, all--
BuzzY
BuZzY wrote:
> ...
DirtCrashr
#Hello,
#
#My friend has an old DA Colt "New Service" revolver that was part of the
#estate of a Polish national who escaped the Nazis and served in Asia for
#the British intelligence people in WWII. It has some interesting proof
#marks that we cannot figure out--I have posted a couple of photos:
#
#http://photos.yahoo.com/jcbuzzdavis
#
#Also, instead of the usual "Colt" identification on the barrel, it
#reads: "NEW SERVICE [illegible]..ELEY".
Probably ".455" as in ".455 Eley" which was the Brit chambering.
#However, the "rearing Colt" logo appears on the frame and it wears a
#pair of old plastic stocks. Could it have been manufactured under
#license by another factory-?
I don't believe Colt did that with the revolvers.
#The serial number is 982xx (I am copying the practice I have observed of
#obscuring a couple of digits..).
They're neat guns, I have a 1909 in .45 Colt that's a hoot to shoot.
-keith in mtn. view
'97 ktm300mxc,'99 Beta Techno
Stan Schaefer
# Hello,
#
# My friend has an old DA Colt "New Service" revolver that was part of the
# estate of a Polish national who escaped the Nazis and served in Asia for
# the British intelligence people in WWII. It has some interesting proof
# marks that we cannot figure out--I have posted a couple of photos:
#
# http://photos.yahoo.com/jcbuzzdavis
#
# Also, instead of the usual "Colt" identification on the barrel, it
# reads: "NEW SERVICE [illegible]..ELEY".
#
# However, the "rearing Colt" logo appears on the frame and it wears a
# pair of old plastic stocks. Could it have been manufactured under
# license by another factory-?
#
# The serial number is 982xx (I am copying the practice I have observed of
# obscuring a couple of digits..).
#
# Any help would be appreciated-!
#
# BuZzY
#
#
#
Your missing digits are undoubtedly ".455", for .455 Eley, that being
what Colt usually marked on the long-case chambered .455 revolvers.
If it doesn't have a broad arrow British acceptance marking on it, it
was probably a commercial item, privately obtained. IIRC, the .455 is
a fairly rare chambering for the New Service. If you could document
its service, it would add to the collector value. Are the stocks
plastic or hard rubber? I've seen wooden and hard rubber originals,
but no plastic.
Stan
BuZzY
Yeah, I'm ready to call this a British issue in .455 cal.
The stocks are a deep chocolate brown, nearly black, with the checkering
and "COLT" at the top in the oval.
The pistol was in a box for 50 years, untouched. Careful massaging and
oiling freed up the cylinder and action. There is some significant
pitting, for sure. The bore is not great.
The crossed pennants on the L front of the frame and the weird mark
(resembles an Asian character over "36E") up near the hammer on the L
frame still elude identification.
I've always been fond of the Cold autos, but this big pistol has piqued
my interest in New Service revolvers. All I need now is a fistful of
money-!
--buzzY
Stan Schaefer wrote:
# Your missing digits are undoubtedly ".455", for .455 Eley, that being
# what Colt usually marked on the long-case chambered .455 revolvers.
# If it doesn't have a broad arrow British acceptance marking on it, it
# was probably a commercial item, privately obtained. IIRC, the .455 is
# a fairly rare chambering for the New Service. If you could document
# its service, it would add to the collector value. Are the stocks
# plastic or hard rubber? I've seen wooden and hard rubber originals,
# but no plastic.
#
# Stan
#
Don Staples
# Okay--I have determined the VP is "verified proof" (Colt), ELEY is the
# .445 variant of this pistol, British, I guess; and the "3" behind the
# trigger guard shows up on another two I have seen on the 'net. Still
# wonder about the crossed pennants and the strange symbol up near the
# hammer. Never studied these big revolvers much until now--
#
In the US military, crossed pennants are usually a sign of the signal corps.
Derek V.
cartridge. Most likely, it was a W W I purchase by Great Britain made
before the USA joined the fray.
Derek V.
BuZzY <buzz...@airmail.net> wrote in message news:<cctsm8$nbu$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
> ...
DirtCrashr
wrote:
#Thanks for the replies--
#
#Yeah, I'm ready to call this a British issue in .455 cal.
#
#The stocks are a deep chocolate brown, nearly black, with the checkering
#and "COLT" at the top in the oval.
#
#The pistol was in a box for 50 years, untouched. Careful massaging and
#oiling freed up the cylinder and action. There is some significant
#pitting, for sure. The bore is not great.
#
#The crossed pennants on the L front of the frame and the weird mark
#(resembles an Asian character over "36E") up near the hammer on the L
#frame still elude identification.
#
#I've always been fond of the Cold autos, but this big pistol has piqued
#my interest in New Service revolvers. All I need now is a fistful of
#money-!
#
#--buzzY
Here's an interesting example that seems to follow similar patterns on
GunsAmerica:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976351195.htm
Is that a "broad-arrow" ?
http://www.confederateordinance.com/coltnewseries4.jpg
and crossed flags:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976351195.htm
It describes "a military style finish" but "the numbers C690 on the
frame and cylinder." Suggest to me a Commercial model, since Colt used
the C-stamp on commercial versions and parts...
Some 1911A1's have c-stamped parts that were put into military
production during WWII.
HTH
-keith mtn. view
'97 ktm300mxc,'99 Beta Techno
BuZzY
DirtCrashr wrote:
> ...
Darned interesting--and, the caliber of the Colt pictured, originally
"...ELEY", has been overstamped with "45L COLT."
And, the "C690" appears to obscure another mark as well.
> ...
I just found this, among other references to the "broad arrow":
"No doubt you have observed the so-called "broad arrow" stamped or
otherwise marked on military equipment and pondered its meaning.
"The symbol, or 'mark', was used to denote Crown property as early as
the reign of King Richard II (1367-1400), but to Gunners it has added
significance. On ordnance not only does it denote Government ownership
but it indicates the piece has been successfully test-fired, ie it has
passed proof, or has been proved.
"Having been used by the Board of Ordnance since earliest times, the
term 'broad arrow' is probably a corruption of the "Board's arrow"."
> ...
I found a reference to "crossed flags" and the British nitro proof on a
S&W .445 cal Hand Ejector Second Model--they indicate Canadian service,
I gather. Hmmm.
> ...
DirtCrashr
#Darned interesting--and, the caliber of the Colt pictured, originally
#"...ELEY", has been overstamped with "45L COLT."
#
#And, the "C690" appears to obscure another mark as well.
#
# > ...
#
#I just found this, among other references to the "broad arrow":
#
#"No doubt you have observed the so-called "broad arrow" stamped or
#otherwise marked on military equipment and pondered its meaning.
#
#"The symbol, or 'mark', was used to denote Crown property as early as
#the reign of King Richard II (1367-1400), but to Gunners it has added
#significance. On ordnance not only does it denote Government ownership
#but it indicates the piece has been successfully test-fired, ie it has
#passed proof, or has been proved.
#
#"Having been used by the Board of Ordnance since earliest times, the
#term 'broad arrow' is probably a corruption of the "Board's arrow"."
#
# > ...
#
#I found a reference to "crossed flags" and the British nitro proof on a
#S&W .445 cal Hand Ejector Second Model--they indicate Canadian service,
#I gather. Hmmm.
Canadian or British, either would account for Singapore or other East
Asian destinations/origins like Burma.
But Asia is big, Central to Britain's empire was India and the
Northwest Frontier (Pakistan and Afghanistan). It would make a
difference as to unit markings or whatever, Indian vs. Malaysian
script.
Does the gun shoot? I have an old Colt 1909 that shoots Black Hills
.45 Colt just fine, it's really a lot of fun.
Whether it's .455 Revolver Mk II or .455 Webley Revolver MkII is an
issue _ I don't know_- there's a thread about .455 Eley here:
http://www.pmcammo.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=53
The two different cartridges are on p. 284 and 286 of "Cartridges of
the World"
-keith
'97 ktm300mxc,'99 Beta Techno