357 magnum through a brick wall?
Super J
Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
exterior wall. Am I wrong here? I read that the 357 cartridge was
initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
Regards, Super J
Bterr
It's not likely that a .357 load, even the old Winchester 150gr spire pt.
"highway patrol" load will go through most well-made bricks. However, it could
go through some cinder blocks, and it potentially might slip through mortar
between bricks. Never say never, but the probability of penetrating through a
brick is low.
rdean3
On 31 Mar 1998 16:04:31 -0500, ca...@iquest.net (Super J) wrote:
#Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
#of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
#great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
#through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
#to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
#exterior wall. Am I wrong here? I read that the 357 cartridge was
#initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
#But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
#to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
#
#Regards, Super J
#
Not to be rude, but this sorta like a "how long is a piece of string?"
question. Is the house actual masonry construction, or like most
"brick" homes, really brick veneer? And what type of brick? I'm not
being a smartaleck, just pointing out some of the considerations in a
study-type analysis of your question. If your question is simply, "Is
there real danger of a .357 bullet going through the exterior wall of
the average home?" Possibly. Likely that it will do so AND retain
enough energy to hurt people or property? Not likely, HOWEVER, don't
consider a standard-construction wall (commercial or residential,
interior or exterior) to be a safe backstop for any ammo. If the
bullet hits just the right spot, it WILL penetrate a "brick" wall and
seriously damage what it might hit on the other side.
A .22 LR fired at close range will penetrate two pieces of 1/2" or
5/8" sheetrock (a standard interior wall), assuming it doesn't hit a
stud, etc. and damage what is on the other side. A .357, obviously,
that much more so.
I keep myself, and recommend to anyone, male or female, a pump 20 GA
hunting (or even 28 or .410, just more expensive, but plenty enough
gun and shot) shotgun loaded with about #8, standard 4.00 a box
promo-type dove loads. Standard stock and barrel. No magnums, slugs,
buckshot, #4's or worse, "dragon's breath," flechettes, or other BS.
If the noise of the racking doesn't stop them, and there's a good
chance it will, and god forbid you have to fire, this is MORE than
enough, at household distances, to stop anyone (Ask a metro ER doc,
or an experienced country doc about this type of wound). The pattern
doesn't expand enough at these distances to be a threat (but know your
surroundings and who is where!) from "overspread" and deadly
wall-penetration worries are considerably reduced. Aiming is pretty
much "point and pull the trigger," but like any other gun, practice
and be familiar with the gun and what's "downrange".
Hope this helps!
Brune
From my personal experence a 125 grain .357 mag will go through sheetrock
(nice hole), but didn't go through the brick. I checked the outside of the
wall( after I changed my shorts!) and found no evidence of the round ( no
mortar cracks around the brick, etc.)
Photo35744
No it won't go through a solid brick wall.
Robert P. Pielli--Portraits by Pielli
Robert J. Christman
Super J wrote:
# Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
# of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
# great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
# through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
# to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
# exterior wall. Am I wrong here? I read that the 357 cartridge was
# initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
# But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
# to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
#
# Regards, Super J
A lot would depend on the bullet used, but in general, with self defense
loads, no it wouldn't. It will penetrate siding for those of us without
brick homes. (at least some sided houses, I wouldn't bet on it getting
through my exterior walls, but then I have real plaster walls and the
outside walls are eight inches thick)
Bob C. NRA Endowment USN (Ret)
Ron Schwarz -- see sig to reply
On 31 Mar 1998 16:04:31 -0500, ca...@iquest.net (Super J) wrote:
#Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
#of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
#great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
#through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
#to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
If it's thin brick fascia, maybe. Real brick, very doubtful.
#exterior wall. Am I wrong here? I read that the 357 cartridge was
#initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
That's after passing through 8 feet of wet phonebooks too, right? <g>
#But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
#to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
Sounds more like it.
--
(reply to usenet at clubvb.com)
Baldar29
I don't believe that the load you mentioned will pass through an exterior wall.
I have fired handguns at many things but have not found one that will do that.
The Hydra-shok is a good round but it will break up when it meets the brick
wall.
When S&W developed the .357 Magnum Hand Ejector in 1934, I don't think they
were concerned with knocking out speeding cars!
I also don't think they were worried about cars when they developed the .41 or
.44 magnums either!! :)
I would feel comfortable with the load you mentioned for home security, but as
you mentioned it will go through interior walls pretty easily.
baldar
Andrew Walls
Super J wrote:
#
# of a brick house?
No! No single handgun round will penetrate a brick wall.
#I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
# great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
# through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
# to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
# exterior wall. Am I wrong here?
Many non-magnum handgun bullets (.45 ACP, .44 Special etc.) will also
pass through the interior walls commonly used in American homes.
I read that the 357 cartridge was
# initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
# But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
# to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
The .357 magnum was designed in the 1930's to unleash the full potential
of a .38 special cartridge when stuffed full of modern smokeless powder.
I have no doubt that someone shot at an engine taken from a wrecked car
and noticed that the block had cracked, but remember - in the 1930's
engine blocks were made of cast iron and were thus far more brittle than
todays aluminum alloy motors.
--
Andrew Walls
Near the Arctic Circle
Norway
Ronald Shin
Super J wrote:
#
# Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
# great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
# through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
# to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
# initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
# But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
# to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
# Regards, Super J
With such a light hollowpoint, it's not that great of a chance that the
Hydrashok 130 grain will penetrate the better made brick walls. Now, if
you have the cheaper bricks in your house, then there is a greater
chance.
Of course, there's always a chance that the hollowpoint will not merely
go "splat" against the brick wall, and that it could conceivable go
through.
As for the .357 magnum being the engine block cracker, I thought that
this was the .44 magnum's role?
Cheers!
--
"The First Amendment is crucial. Of course it is. So are all
the others. And the Second Amendment is the one that guarantees
that people can bear arms to protect themselves."
Charlton Heston, VP of the NRA
Don Staples
I seem to remember an incident where a .270 was discharged in a carport
(got rid of that one) and was stopped by red (acme) brick, without
damage to the sheet rock, or anything else, on the other side.
--
Don Staples
UIN 4653335
My Ego Stroke: http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/
Solusrex
I don't know about a .357 through a brick wall, but I can testify through
personal experience that a .45 ACP 230 grn Hydroshock will not penetrate
completely through a copy of Borror's classic textbook on entomology. I
recovered the slug and gave it to the nimrod who shot the book as a visual
reminder that he really ought to be more careful when handling a gun. The
bullet had not expanded (although it did look a bit compressed) as the paper it
plowed through had filled in the hollowpoint cavity. I doubt that it would
penetrate a brick wall.
(All - in - all, though, it was quite fortunate that the book was the first
thing the bullet hit, as I was on the other side of an interior wall more or
less in it's path. The incident still ticks me off.)
Dan
ma...@zianet.com
Andrew Walls wrote:
#
# #
# # Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
#
# No! No single handgun round will penetrate a brick wall.
#
# #I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
# # great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
# # through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
# # to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
# # exterior wall. Am I wrong here?
#
# Many non-magnum handgun bullets (.45 ACP, .44 Special etc.) will also
# pass through the interior walls commonly used in American homes.
#
# I read that the 357 cartridge was
# # initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
# # But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
# # to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
#
# The .357 magnum was designed in the 1930's to unleash the full potential
# of a .38 special cartridge when stuffed full of modern smokeless powder.
# I have no doubt that someone shot at an engine taken from a wrecked car
# and noticed that the block had cracked, but remember - in the 1930's
# engine blocks were made of cast iron and were thus far more brittle than
# todays aluminum alloy motors.
#
# --
# Andrew Walls
# Near the Arctic Circle
# Norway
Funny! my 97 Mercury V-8 engine has a cast iron block. Aluminum heads,
however. My 87 Ford V8 has cast iron block & heads.
marsh
rdean
On 31 Mar 1998 16:04:31 -0500, ca...@iquest.net (Super J) wrote:
#Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
#of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
#great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
#through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
#to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
#exterior wall. Am I wrong here? I read that the 357 cartridge was
#initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
#But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
#to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
#
lensman3
On 1 Apr 1998 21:57:43 -0500, solu...@aol.com (Solusrex) wrote:
#I don't know about a .357 through a brick wall, but I can testify through
#personal experience that a .45 ACP 230 grn Hydroshock will not penetrate
#completely through a copy of Borror's classic textbook on entomology. I
#recovered the slug and gave it to the nimrod who shot the book as a visual
You have confused >nimrod< with >numbnuts<. BTW, I had an indoor AD,
but it went thru the floor into a crawl space. Missed my foot byTHAT
much.
#reminder that he really ought to be more careful when handling a gun. The
#bullet had not expanded (although it did look a bit compressed) as the paper it
#plowed through had filled in the hollowpoint cavity. I doubt that it would
#penetrate a brick wall.
#
#(All - in - all, though, it was quite fortunate that the book was the first
#thing the bullet hit, as I was on the other side of an interior wall more or
#less in it's path. The incident still ticks me off.)
#
#Dan
#
rcm...@idir.net
On 1 Apr 1998 11:51:47 -0500, Andrew Walls <andrew...@nbr.no>
wrote:
> ...
RE: You are exaxtly right! A 30's in-line 6 or 8 was much easier to
shoot lengthwise from the side then a modern 4 is sideways from the
side. One the oherhand, .357's in the 1930's were loaded to max
velocity. Sadly, many of them are not anymore.
rc
Jim & Susan Del Vecchio
rcm...@idir.net wrote:
# On 1 Apr 1998 11:51:47 -0500, Andrew Walls <andrew...@nbr.no>
# wrote:
# > ...
#
# RE: You are exaxtly right! A 30's in-line 6 or 8 was much easier to
# shoot lengthwise from the side then a modern 4 is sideways from the
# side. One the oherhand, .357's in the 1930's were loaded to max
# velocity. Sadly, many of them are not anymore.
#
# rc
Is there really so much of a difference?
I suspect the only difference is that today consumers
have chronigraphs, so ammo vendors have to mark
the product with specs which more closely match
actual performance.
Sixguns, by Kieth:
"Hercules #2400 is the powder used by Winchester
in working pu the .357 Magnm cartridge, and to my
notion it is the best of all powders for extreme
or maximum loads..."
"...Loads such as
these should only be put up in new, heavy cases in
perfect condition. They will at any rate, give you the
maximum power in these calibers. In the .357 Magnum
S&W revolver we load 15 grains of #2400 and the
160 grain Kieth Lyman bullet, or 14.5 with the 173
grain solid."
I believe those are about in line with the max loads
in Lyman or Alliant today.
Jim D
Robert J. Christman
Jim & Susan Del Vecchio wrote:
> ...
The max loads in the handbooks haven't changed that much. What is
offered in factory loads has. Only a few of the factory loads are at full
power nowdays (at least the ones I have tested). I suspect that the large
numbers of small to medium framed revolvers chambered in .357 might
contribute to that trend. Remember the original specs were designed
around five and six inch barreled N frame Smith's, not three and four inch
barreled K and L frames. I don't even want to think about shooting full
loads in a J frame!
John Will
On 31 Mar 1998 16:04:31 -0500, ca...@iquest.net (Super J) wrote:
#Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
#of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
#great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
#through walls.
If it's a "real" brick wall, and not just a 1/2" facing, the .357
isn't going to go far if it makes it through.
Bill Nine Toes
I'd like to see some test results, but I find it very difficult to believe
that a .357 could punch through brick walls.
Super J wrote in message <6frlov$3...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
#of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
#great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
rutledge
# Super J wrote in message <6frlov$3...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# #Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
# #of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
# #great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
# #through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
# #to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
# #exterior wall. Am I wrong here? I read that the 357 cartridge was
# #initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
# #But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
# #to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
# #
# #Regards, Super J
1) It might.
2) It sure as heck will go though sheetrock, two by fours, and plywood,
and relatively few houses in my area have brick walls on the outside.
Regardless of that, in *MY* opinion, the real problem with the magnum
revolver cartridges is not penetration, but noise. The 9mm, .40, and
10mm share that problem. Depending on the ammo selected, they can share
the overpenetration problem.
I'd prefer to address the overpenetration issue with a tactical
solution, not a hardware solution. That is, know your house, study
where you can safely shoot and where you can't. As to noise ... I
sorta think the .44 special and .45 ACP might be the best solutions ...
the lower pressure cartridges have more of a BOOM than a sharp CRACK and
I don't think they cause as much hearing damage as quickly.
Hitting your target will somewhat address the penetration problem, too.
Momentum used up in pushing the bullet though Mr. Burgler is no longer
available to use getting through walls.
Bottom line on the whole thing is, though, when the chips are down ya
gotta do what ya gotta do: SURVIVE ... and you may have to risk hurting
someone else. It'd be real responsible to TRY to minimize that as much
as possible, but I'm not sure you're obligated to get killed by an
intruder instead of risking some low % chance of hurting a bystander.
Get a good lawyer and lotsa liability insurance before the shootin'
starts.
Tom
rutledge
# Super J wrote in message <6frlov$3...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# #Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
# #of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
# #great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
# #through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
# #to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
# #exterior wall. Am I wrong here? I read that the 357 cartridge was
# #initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
# #But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
# #to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
# #
# #Regards, Super J
# #
Oh, as to cracking engine blocks ... not real likely.
There were (are?) some .357 specialty loads using pointed metal piercing
bullets which were supposed to be able to crack a block.
You'd be a lot better off rattling one though the radiator.
Depending on the age of the car (how thick the sheet metal is), the
particular load used, and the angle of impact, the .357 won't always
penetrate. Impact perpendicular to the surface usually penetrates, and
jacketed bullets tend to penetrate instead of bouncing off somewhat
better than lead bullets, but the shape of the bullet nose also matters.
'Bout 15 years ago, one of my high school friends' families had a bunch
of beater cars about to be crushed, so we did some testing with 9mm,
.357, shotgun, and a coupla rifles. Pretty educational.
Tom
Lonnie C. Martin
In article <6ge6ed$n...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "Bill Nine Toes"
<nine...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
# I'd like to see some test results, but I find it very difficult to believe
# that a .357 could punch through brick walls.
#
#
# Super J wrote in message <6frlov$3...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# #Will a Hydra-Shok 130 grain 357 cartridge go through the exterior wall
# #of a brick house? I have read that the magnum velocities are not so
# #great for home protection due to the fact that the cartirdge can pass
# #through walls. It seems that any big bore handgun cartridge is going
# #to pass through interior walls and not make it through a brick
# #exterior wall. Am I wrong here? I read that the 357 cartridge was
see below - I believe you are essentially correct.
# #initially developed to be a car stopper by cracking the engine block.
# #But I just read another article where someone tested this and found it
# #to penetrate sheet metal but not much of an engine block threat.
I've seen a film showing penetration characteristics of various firearms.
As I recall, none of the handgun cartridges penetrated brick wall (seems
like it was a 2 bricks thick wall). The .308 Win. was able to break through
the brick wall.
Sheetrock walls were not very effective at stopping bullets, as you might
guess. Many of the common defense calibers were able to penetrate multiple
sheetrock walls before being stopped.
I wish I could recall more detailed information, but I only saw the film
once and that's about all I recall of it.
Lonnie
--
Lonnie C. Martin lma...@uclink.berkeley.edu
Brad McCabe
rutledge <rutl...@sou.edu> wrote:
#'Bout 15 years ago, one of my high school friends' families had a bunch
#of beater cars about to be crushed, so we did some testing with 9mm,
#.357, shotgun, and a coupla rifles. Pretty educational.
#Tom
Even though I know it probably wasn't exactly a scientific study, I
would like to hear about the actual results. Post them please, or at
least what you remember after 15 years.
rutledge
Brad McCabe wrote:
#
# rutledge <rutl...@sou.edu> wrote:
#
# #'Bout 15 years ago, one of my high school friends' families had a bunch
# #of beater cars about to be crushed, so we did some testing with 9mm,
# #.357, shotgun, and a coupla rifles. Pretty educational.
#
# #Tom
#
# Even though I know it probably wasn't exactly a scientific study, I
# would like to hear about the actual results. Post them please, or at
# least what you remember after 15 years.
Ok, I guess.
Mostly '60s and early 70s vintage cars.
9mm might penetrate, might not, straight on. I had some truncated cone
FMJ ammo with a very small meplat which went through ok. Round nose FMJ
didn't always go though. Expanding ammo didn't go through, but put a
wicked dent. I wouldn't want to be on the other side on the off chance
it DID go though, and today's sheetmetal probably would be about as
effective at stopping 'em as 2 slices of Wonder bread.
.357, even soft swaged lead, would go through at any reasonably steep
angle, but tended to stop inside the door and not penetrate into the
interior of the vehicle if the door was metal on the inside and not just
cloth or cardboard lined.
12 guage #4 buck would sometimes penetrate, if you were close enough and
it all hit in a wad. 00 buck did pretty well. I always feared the one
pellet from the wad that decided to come back at us. Birdshot mostly
bounced unless you were REAL close ... same fear.
Even fairly hard cast .44 mag loads didn't go clear though the car, but
if you hit a door, it would usually penetrate both metal sheets and get
into the passenger area ... all mangled and wicked lookin'. Not
something I'd want to hit me!
Tempered glass rear windows were pretty cool to shoot with a .22. The
first shot would take out about a half inch by half inch piece and
absolutely shatter the window, but leave it in place. The second shot,
it'd collapse from side to side. *too* cool!!
Other fun things to shoot were old porcelain toilets. Pat borrowed his
dad's browning auto 5 and I'd use mine. GREAT fun. We also shot to
death some old worm gear -driven circular saws using an '03A3
springfield and WWII-vintage military surplus ammo. Had a coupla
tracers which were neat, and a little bit of armor piercing, which
really took the gear assemblies apart much better than the standard FMJ.
Thazz 'bout all for today, folks. Gots to go home. :-)
Tom