Old scope info and value
TonyW
info and possible value on some old rifle scopes. The first one is a
Lyman Challenger 4X. Most of the paint is worn off the bells but it
it's very clear.
The next one is a Lyman All American 4X scope. It's in good condition
and has very fine cross hairs with a dot in the center.
The last one is a Weaver V8 with the adjustments on the mounts and is a
2 to 8x scope.
I was hoping to find a Wiki page on these scopes but I haven't been able
to turn up much useful info...
Tony
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Larry Farrell
A quick Google search for each of the scopes suggests prices ranging
(generally) from $50-100. There were some listing well below that, down
as far as $15, and some above, ranging up to $185, but the average
seemed to be in the first range. Of course, condition of the scopes is
a major issue.
Advocate
A friend of mine without internet access has asked me to dig up some
info and possible value on some old rifle scopes. The first one is a
Lyman Challenger 4X. Most of the paint is worn off the bells but it
it's very clear.
The next one is a Lyman All American 4X scope. It's in good condition
and has very fine cross hairs with a dot in the center.
The last one is a Weaver V8 with the adjustments on the mounts and is a
2 to 8x scope.
I was hoping to find a Wiki page on these scopes but I haven't been able
to turn up much useful info...
Check eBay under completed listings...in nice shape, these scopes sometimes
go for big bucks! (Over $200) The worn one should go between $75 and $100.
Personally, I don't get it. They are cool to look at, but for $200, the
sixty year old technology just doesn't cut it (in my book of course).
That being said, I do have a Weaver K4 mounted on a sporterized K98 Mauser
that was handed down to me. It works fine...but when I hand it down to my
grandson, it will have a Leupold 4x mounted on it.
sta...@prolynx.com
# A friend of mine without internet access has asked me to dig up some
# info and possible value on some old rifle scopes. The first one is a
# Lyman Challenger 4X. Most of the paint is worn off the bells but it
# it's very clear.
#
# The next one is a Lyman All American 4X scope. It's in good condition
# and has very fine cross hairs with a dot in the center.
#
# The last one is a Weaver V8 with the adjustments on the mounts and is a
# 2 to 8x scope.
#
# I was hoping to find a Wiki page on these scopes but I haven't been able
# to turn up much useful info...
#
# Tony
#
They were top stuff back in the day, but most cheap current scopes
will have better glass and coatings. Not a whole lot of value there
unless some collector wants to mount contemporary glass onto their
oldies. Best source for info is old Gun Digests.
Stan
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
penultimate
I beg to differ a bit with Stan and note that some of the oldies are
developing genuine collector's value.
Further, both Lymans and El Paso era Weavers had pretty fair and
certainly very usable glass, though glass wise, the edge probably went
to a Lyman. Major advancement has been made in coatings. But this
offers less substantial advantage in the relatively simple fixed power
designs and reveals itself only at the limits of usage. Seals
substantially deteriorate over the five to eight decades lived by
these scopes with optics coming to appear a lot worse than they are
just because of creeping gun oil and dirt. An expert should do any
cleaning to avoid damage to the old coatings, such as they are.
Parson's Scope Service (www.parsonsscopeservice.com) will clean and
reseal these scopes for reasonable fee. If you want to pay for it,
Parsons can pretty much clearn, repair, and restore the old Weaver's
and Lyman's to "like new" function and appearance.
So my first point is that lots of people think old optics are a lot
worse than they were (in comparison to contemporary "cheap" scopes)
just because they never had a chance to look through them 70 years ago
when they were clean and new! But the oldies can be restored and
afterwards are very usable.
Functionally, the major disadvantage of the old Lyman's is that they
were and are prone to fog up in cold and lousy weather. Leupold came
to clean their clock in the market in the late 40's and early 50's
because Leupold pioneered good seals and nitrogen purging of internal
moisture. Somebody above mentioned replacing his Weaver K4 with a
(modern) Leupold 4x. I certainly would not consider this a "bad"
idea. But I do note that my Leupold 4X is a vintage 1958
Mountaineer. You'd have a hard time convincing me that a current
Leupold 4X would do a better job than my oldie Leupold. Lyman fell by
the way because it fell behind Leupold's technology innovations. But
Weaver for a while kept up by competing at a slightly lower price
point, cutting corners on Leupold optical quality and finish detail.
To my second point. While I'd probably prefer my old Leupold 4X to a
(cleaned/restored) Weaver 4X K4 (built with a steel tube in El Paso),
if I had to rely on a scope in the wilderness where there was no hope
for repair or replacement, I'd take an El Paso era Weave K4 (as first
serviced by Parson's) over a "cheap current scope with better glass
and coatings" every day of the week! Note that my reference point for
"cheap" is probably costing less than $150. Why? Cause there is 50
plus years PROVING the old Weaver K4's (and old Leupold's) are tough
as nails while hundreds of "cheap current scopes with better glass and
coatings" are breaking in normal RANGE USE every week! There is a lot
more to a scope than glass and coatings! I would say that for typical
American hunting use, and certainly for a fixed power 4X scope,
advances in scope mounts over the past 60 years are probably
functionally more important than advances in optics.
All of which brings me to my third point. From golf clubs to skis to
automobiles, there is not much where current technology doesn't offer
a huge user performance advantage over 1930 to 1960 technology. A
notable exception is the scoped center fire bolt action rifle. If
today we set off two skilled but young hunters on a lifetime of
evaluating respective hunting performance, equipping one with the
latest and greatest cartridge, bolt-action rifle, and scope, the other
with a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 chambered in 30-06 and scoped with
an as-new Weaver El Paso K4, 50 years later any difference in record
would have nothing to with the cartridge, rifle, or scope used. As,
for example, pre-64 Winchesters have become more precious, collectors
and just users have become more and more inclined to "restore" them
with equivalent vintage scopes. This is the case because of the
"look" and nostalgia and because smart folks have realized practically
nothing has been given up in terms of function, especially if the
scope is first give a quality service job at Parsons. A prewar 270
Model 70 naturally goes with a Lyman or vintage Kollmorgen, remaining
as deadly as if sighted with a modern Swarovski. In consequence, the
"oldies but goodies" are getting a lot more valuable --- in a hurry.
penultimate
Please note that I looked Parson's web site today and saw that they
deny providing service for old Weavers. They do service the old
Lymans as well as Malcom and "unnamed" vintage scopes. My memory says
they used to service Weavers maybe years ago. But I also vaguely
recall shipping an old Weaver for cleaning to someone that claimed
being a former Weaver El Paso employee - perhaps per advice from
Parsons. I suspect memory cogs may have slipped re. which old scope I
shipped off for service where. My memory is correct, however, in
remembering getting excellent work back from Parsons. For me they
have serviced at least two of the following: a Unertl, a Lyman All
American, (possibly) a Weaver 330, and a mystery brand German scope of
prewar vintage. I have an El Paso K4 that needs seals and a cleaning
if someone knows where to send old Weavers for such a job today..
Advocate
Please note that I looked Parson's web site today and saw that they
deny providing service for old Weavers. They do service the old
Lymans as well as Malcom and "unnamed" vintage scopes. My memory says
they used to service Weavers maybe years ago. But I also vaguely
recall shipping an old Weaver for cleaning to someone that claimed
being a former Weaver El Paso employee - perhaps per advice from
Parsons. I suspect memory cogs may have slipped re. which old scope I
shipped off for service where. My memory is correct, however, in
remembering getting excellent work back from Parsons. For me they
have serviced at least two of the following: a Unertl, a Lyman All
American, (possibly) a Weaver 330, and a mystery brand German scope of
prewar vintage. I have an El Paso K4 that needs seals and a cleaning
if someone knows where to send old Weavers for such a job today..
Frank Ruiz ran a Weaver repair facility in El Paso on Larry Mahan
Drive...but according to blogs, he has closed his shop.
TonyW
# Please note that I looked Parson's web site today and saw that they
# deny providing service for old Weavers. They do service the old
# Lymans as well as Malcom and "unnamed" vintage scopes.
Thanx for all the replies. I was hoping to find a collectors site with
more info rather than just a value.
I was unable to find the Parson's web site, could someone provide a link?
I'm watching a couple Lyman All American scopes on eBay but none of them
have the target dot cross hairs like the one my friend has. This should
give me more of a clue on value...
I've found a little on the Weaver V8 scope and nothing on the Lyman
challenger scope for info or value.
Tony