Synthetic vs Petroleum based gun oil
nedr...@yahoo.com
Casey) vs petroleum based (Rem oil)? Is one better for wood finishes
than the other? I was wondering if the Rem oil would start to gum up
the pores in the wood while the synthetic wouldn't. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Steve
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Rick Courtright
# Casey) vs petroleum based (Rem oil)? Is one better for wood finishes
# than the other? I was wondering if the Rem oil would start to gum up
# the pores in the wood while the synthetic wouldn't. Any thoughts?
Hi,
You lost me--you're putting gun oil on the wood? If so, why? Unless
there's something I missed, gun oil should only go on metal, and I think
100 yrs or so of generations of shooters' experience with such products
as 3 in One, Hoppe's, Outers and similar petroleum oils will bear out my
thoughts that synthetic's a marketing ploy more than a real advance. But
I'm willing to learn something new.
Rick
nedr...@yahoo.com
#
#You lost me--you're putting gun oil on the wood? If so, why? Unless
#there's something I missed, gun oil should only go on metal, and I think
#100 yrs or so of generations of shooters' experience with such products
#as 3 in One, Hoppe's, Outers and similar petroleum oils will bear out my
#thoughts that synthetic's a marketing ploy more than a real advance. But
#I'm willing to learn something new.
#
#Rick
It makes the wood look nicer and keeps it from drying out. When I
first got my Rem 700 ADL 20 yrs ago someone told me to wipe down the
stock with gun oil every night for the first two weeks and then
periodically after that. When I brought the gun back to shop I bought
it from to have a scope mounted, the guys that sold me the gun thought
it was a BDL - with the nicer wood.
As far as synthetic oil on metal - synthetic motor oil doesn't break
down as fast when exposed to heat/friction in an engine, so why not
use it on guns too :).
Randy Sweeney
"Rick Courtright" <rcour...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:d8965j$9h7$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# nedr...@yahoo.com wrote:
#
# # Casey) vs petroleum based (Rem oil)? Is one better for wood finishes
# # than the other? I was wondering if the Rem oil would start to gum up
# # the pores in the wood while the synthetic wouldn't. Any thoughts?
#
# Hi,
#
# You lost me--you're putting gun oil on the wood? If so, why? Unless
# there's something I missed, gun oil should only go on metal, and I think
# 100 yrs or so of generations of shooters' experience with such products
# as 3 in One, Hoppe's, Outers and similar petroleum oils will bear out my
# thoughts that synthetic's a marketing ploy more than a real advance. But
# I'm willing to learn something new.
#
# Rick
gun oil is terrible for wood - lifts the grain and provides no protection.
gun oil (natural or synthetic) is a stable light oil with short chain
lengths
wood wants a long chain wax to seal the surface or a reactive oil (like
linseed or tung oil) that oxidizes / polymerizes rapidly to seal the surface
and hold the fibers together (gun oil - natural/synth doesn't)
------------=_42A8E0F7.79426A39--
delc...@mail.ab.edu
nedr...@yahoo.com wrote:
# Does anyone have knowledge of using a synthetic gun oil (Birchwood
# Casey) vs petroleum based (Rem oil)? Is one better for wood finishes
# than the other? I was wondering if the Rem oil would start to gum up
# the pores in the wood while the synthetic wouldn't. Any thoughts?
Gun oil softens the wood. Modern urethane finishes are fairly
oilproof, but you want to keep excess gun oil of any kind off the
stock. Gun oils will penetrate linseed oil finishes.
J. Del Col
John Kepler
# It makes the wood look nicer and keeps it from drying out. When I
# first got my Rem 700 ADL 20 yrs ago someone told me to wipe down the
# stock with gun oil every night for the first two weeks and then
# periodically after that.
Tell me......when you change the oil in your car do you slop some of the oil
onto a rag and wipe the car down with the oily rag to "improve the finish"?
Do you actually think it'd work on your car? If the answer is no, why the
hell would you do it to a rifle stock?
Logic is wonderful thing.....don't be afraid to use it!
John
Rick Courtright
# It makes the wood look nicer and keeps it from drying out. When I
# first got my Rem 700 ADL 20 yrs ago someone told me to wipe down the
# stock with gun oil every night for the first two weeks and then
Hi,
Is that one leg they were pulling longer than the other one?
I've known several stockmakers over the years--worked for a couple.
While they disagreed on many things concerning styles, wood choices,
"natural" vs urethane finishes, etc., I never ONCE heard any of 'em
advocating gun oil on the wood finish. In fact, they all warned against
using gun oil where it COULD seep into the wood, because it will
eventually soften and ruin it, and advocated treatments designed "for
wood" if the shooter desired to use anything other than a damp cloth.
Johnson's or Bruce paste floor wax were often suggested. Personal
experience backs up that suggestion.
# As far as synthetic oil on metal - synthetic motor oil doesn't break
# down as fast when exposed to heat/friction in an engine, so why not
Oh, Harold! We got us another one! Ka-ching! (With apologies to Red
Green.)
Rick
Peter Franks
# I've known several stockmakers over the years--worked for a couple.
# While they disagreed on many things concerning styles, wood choices,
# "natural" vs urethane finishes, etc., I never ONCE heard any of 'em
# advocating gun oil on the wood finish. In fact, they all warned against
# using gun oil where it COULD seep into the wood, because it will
# eventually soften and ruin it, and advocated treatments designed "for
# wood" if the shooter desired to use anything other than a damp cloth.
# Johnson's or Bruce paste floor wax were often suggested. Personal
# experience backs up that suggestion.
Page 20, step 9 from Browning (Cynergy) cleaning procedures: "The wood
surfaces can also be wiped with Browning Oil or they can be polished
with any quality furniture wax (but not both).
http://www.browning.com/products/manuals/pdf/cynergy_s.pdf
See also:
http://www.browning.com/faq/detail.asp?ID=161
nedr...@yahoo.com
#
#Tell me......when you change the oil in your car do you slop some of the oil
#onto a rag and wipe the car down with the oily rag to "improve the finish"?
#Do you actually think it'd work on your car? If the answer is no, why the
#hell would you do it to a rifle stock?
#
#Logic is wonderful thing.....don't be afraid to use it!
#
#John
#
OK smarta$$,1st - There are many oil based wood finishes out there -
so gun oil on a stock isn't nearly the stretch as motor oil on paint.
(what were you saying about logic?) 2nd - been putting gun oil on the
stock for 20 years and it hasn't hurt it.
nedr...@yahoo.com
#using gun oil where it COULD seep into the wood, because it will
#eventually soften and ruin it, and advocated treatments designed "for
#wood" if the shooter desired to use anything other than a damp cloth.
#Johnson's or Bruce paste floor wax were often suggested. Personal
#experience backs up that suggestion.
I haven't seen any ill effects yet - 20 years and factory gun still
shoots 1.25 in at 100 yds with factory ammo.
## As far as synthetic oil on metal - synthetic motor oil doesn't break
## down as fast when exposed to heat/friction in an engine, so why not
#
#Oh, Harold! We got us another one! Ka-ching! (With apologies to Red
#Green.)
#
#Rick
#
First, Birchwood Casey's synth oil (4.5 oz for $3.36) costs about the
same as Hoppe's Lube Oil (2.25 oz for $1.83) at
Midsouthshooterssupply - so your "Ka-ching" comment is meaningless.
Second you should really check out some of the technological
breakthroughs in the past 30 or so years. Let's see, Sweet's 7.62 does
a hell of a lot better job on getting out copper than Hoppes 9, and
WipeOut does just as good, if not better job, as Sweet's, doesn't
smell, and takes much less time and effort. By the way, BMW's go
15,000 miles between oil changes with synthetic oil, try that on a
regular basis with non-synthetic oil. Many times you pay less in the
long run by paying a little more up front.
Steve
shey...@myrealbox.com
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:45:22 +0000 (UTC) Rick Courtright <rcourtright@iname
com> wrote:
>nedr...@yahoo.com wrote:
># It makes the wood look nicer and keeps it from drying out. When I
># first got my Rem 700 ADL 20 yrs ago someone told me to wipe down the
># stock with gun oil every night for the first two weeks and then
>Hi,
>Is that one leg they were pulling longer than the other one?
>I've known several stockmakers over the years--worked for a couple.
>While they disagreed on many things concerning styles, wood choices,
>"natural" vs urethane finishes, etc., I never ONCE heard any of 'em
>advocating gun oil on the wood finish. In fact, they all warned against
>using gun oil where it COULD seep into the wood, because it will
>eventually soften and ruin it, and advocated treatments designed "for
>wood" if the shooter desired to use anything other than a damp cloth.
>Johnson's or Bruce paste floor wax were often suggested. Personal
>experience backs up that suggestion.
># As far as synthetic oil on metal - synthetic motor oil doesn't break
># down as fast when exposed to heat/friction in an engine, so why not
>Oh, Harold! We got us another one! Ka-ching! (With apologies to Red
>Green.)
When I was doing Army Basic Training in 1962 and given classes on
the care and cleaning and maintenance of the M-1 rifle we were
all instructed to never put any lubricating oil on the wooden stock.
For the wooden stock we were taught to wipe off any dust and dirt
with a cloth and then to hand rub the stock with linseed oil.
Sam Heywood
--
NTReader v0.32w(O)/Beta (Registered) in conjunction with Net-Tamer.
Peter Franks
# # It makes the wood look nicer and keeps it from drying out. When I
# # first got my Rem 700 ADL 20 yrs ago someone told me to wipe down the
# # stock with gun oil every night for the first two weeks and then
# # periodically after that.
#
# Tell me......when you change the oil in your car do you slop some of the oil
# onto a rag and wipe the car down with the oily rag to "improve the finish"?
# Do you actually think it'd work on your car? If the answer is no, why the
# hell would you do it to a rifle stock?
Paint != wood
# Logic is wonderful thing.....don't be afraid to use it!
Exactly!
Randy Sweeney
<nedr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d8epka$i7n$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
# #
# #Tell me......when you change the oil in your car do you slop some of the
# #onto a rag and wipe the car down with the oily rag to "improve the
# finish"?
# #Do you actually think it'd work on your car? If the answer is no, why
# the
# #hell would you do it to a rifle stock?
# #
# #Logic is wonderful thing.....don't be afraid to use it!
# #
# #
# OK smarta$$,1st - There are many oil based wood finishes out there -
# (what were you saying about logic?) 2nd - been putting gun oil on the
# stock for 20 years and it hasn't hurt it.
oil is not oil
there are lubricating oils and there are finishing oils
they have very different characteristics
would you pour linseed oil into you car engine?
max
#It makes the wood look nicer and keeps it from drying out. When I
#first got my Rem 700 ADL 20 yrs ago someone told me to wipe down the
#stock with gun oil every night for the first two weeks and then
#periodically after that. When I brought the gun back to shop I bought
#it from to have a scope mounted, the guys that sold me the gun thought
#it was a BDL - with the nicer wood.
While I usually use boiled linseed oil on my old milsurp stocks, I was
playing with a beat Mauser stock after stripping the finish and got
some gun lubricating oil on it (don't remember what kind,
unfortunately), and it looked so good, I went ahead and rubbed the
entire stock with it, figuring if it screwed it up, I'd just re-strip
it.
It smelled different from a typical refinished stock for the first few
weeks, but it ended up looking just fine. It still looks fine, and
the odor's been gone for years. It's a bit more of a matte finish,
but I didn't rub it a bunch of times either. No problems so far with
raised grain, swelling, or anything else.
For those who shudder at the though - YMMV, as always; just my
personal experience.
max
John Kepler
Many automotive paints are "vegetable oil-based" (vegetable oil-based alkyd
enamels were used by Ford and Chrysler into the mid-1970's, General Motors
used "vegetable oil-based" alkyd laquers even longer), as well as virtually
ALL oil-based non-automotive paints. Acrylic and polyurethane enamels are
quite new (UV stability is always a problem with automotive paint)!
Oil finishes on gunstocks are VEGETABLE oil-based, either linseed, tung, soy
bean, or some permutation of the three. Mineral oils are NOT the same, and
often contain elements that will soften or otherwise denature the original
oil finish. Do a web-search on "oil-soaked stocks" to give you an overview
on what your actions can/will ultimately lead to! Brownell's even sells a
product (whiting) to draw the excess goop out of the stock-wood!
2nd - been putting gun oil on the
> ...
That you are aware of! Ignorance of a condition doesn't mean it isn't
there! My guess is that your stock is darker and the finish softer than it
should be....and will ultimately fail. Like the only thing saving you up to
now is that Remington didn't finish the low-end ADL with a pure oil, but
added some synthetic varnish to the finish. Either way, you ARE damaging
your stock finish....likely already have.....and are simply too ignorant to
be aware of it!
BTW, I'd far rather be a smarta$$ than a dumba$$!
John
> ...
Rick Courtright
# I haven't seen any ill effects yet - 20 years and factory gun still
# shoots 1.25 in at 100 yds with factory ammo.
That may very well be... and George Burns lived over 100 yrs smoking all
those cigars. But would a doctor advocate you smoke cigars to reach the
century mark? I doubt it. Which is similar to the reasoning behind the
stockmakers' recommendation to avoid using gun oil on wood. Browning's
"recommendation" notwithstanding. Interesting they suggest gun oil to
"remove fingerprints" on the stock--but notice they don't differentiate
between wood or composite stocks. Neither of which, BTW, are going to
"suffer" from fingerprints.
# First, Birchwood Casey's synth oil (4.5 oz for $3.36) costs about the
# same as Hoppe's Lube Oil (2.25 oz for $1.83) at
# Midsouthshooterssupply - so your "Ka-ching" comment is meaningless.
Hmmmm... very good point. We take Mobil 1 or a similar product, which
nobody will argue is underpriced even at Wally World prices around
$4/qt, rebottle it and get $24/qt. Good deal! Wish I'd have thought of
that. Why did I choose Mobil 1? Experience and availability... but if
you think B-C synthetic's gonna do anything M-1 doesn't, you're free to
spend your money any way you wish (BTW, is B-C a "true" PAO synthetic,
or just a hydrocracked "isosyn" based oil? I'd better get another beer
before we get into that one.) That's the fun thing about lubricants and
cleaners--somebody's always claiming to have reinvented the entire
technology and making a buck at it. God bless capitalism!
# Second you should really check out some of the technological
# breakthroughs in the past 30 or so years. Let's see, Sweet's 7.62 does
Hmmmm... somebody goes to the supermarket, buys a quart of all purpose
ammonia for a dollar or so, rebottles it with a bit of perfume, calls it
"copper solvent" and gets $50/qt. Good deal! Wish I'd have thought of
that. As for "technological breakthroughs," excuse me, I think I must
have dozed thru the last 30 years. If anything, I'd argue we're
regressing due to environmental concerns as fast as we're progressing
thru discovery, at least in the area of gun cleaners. Result: stasis at
best? For example, you mentioned Hoppe's No. 9 not working as well as
Sweet's... many will claim "new" No. 9 doesn't even work as well as
"old" No. 9. Fond reminiscence? Or fact? This subject's been beaten
thoroughly: is Hoppe's No. 9 the same today as years ago? The Hoppe's
people will tell you, yes, it is. So, why does a new bottle only say
"contains kerosene" while an old bottle says "contains nitrobenzene,
ammonia, denatured ethanol and kerosene?" (Both bottles are sitting next
to the keyboard as I type this just to be sure.) Are they just trying to
"protect" us by not telling us what's in the stuff? Or did Chicken
Little get to us? I don't know, but I have my suspicions. Sorry, you've
gotta show me how much better Sweet's works than my bottle of household
ammonia for removing copper, how much better $80/gal CLP works than
$8/gal Ed's Red, etc. before I'd consider such things great
"breakthroughs." I'd feel safer with "variations on a theme."
# By the way, BMW's go 15,000 miles between oil changes with synthetic oil, try that on a
# regular basis with non-synthetic oil. Many times you pay less in the long run by paying a little more up
Hmmmm... drawing a correlation between a BMW (or any car) and a gun is
an interesting aside. The demands on motor oil in a car engine and the
requirements for lubrication of gun mechanisms are so different I can't
see any reason to believe any results from one area are seriously
applicable in the other. But just for giggles, are you suggesting that
if you use synthetic oil on your guns, you'll only have to clean them
1/3 to 1/5 as often as if you use "dino" oil, they'll be protected from
rust 3 to 5 time longer, or what? I'd buy a product that DID produce
such results, not just tease me with advertising hype. "Better
mousetrap" somehow pops up.
Rick
nedr...@yahoo.com
# but ifyou think B-C synthetic's gonna do anything M-1 doesn't, you're free to
#spend your money any way you wish
Since I clean and oil my guns after every shoot and conditions don't
go to extremes here in MO., I don't really think there would be a
significant difference - just trying to learn something. Sometime down
the line it may matter.
#(BTW, is B-C a "true" PAO synthetic,
#or just a hydrocracked "isosyn" based oil? I'd better get another beer
#before we get into that one.)
Uhhh, don't know and whaat??? No thanks, I'd just be nodding my head
with a blank stare. I know I'm no expert on different oils, Just
trying to find a better way to do things. I sure stirred the pot,
didn't I?
# Sorry, you've gotta show me how much better Sweet's works than
#my bottle of household ammonia for removing copper, how much better
#$80/gal CLP works than $8/gal Ed's Red, etc. before I'd consider such
#things great "breakthroughs." I'd feel safer with "variations on a theme."
I won't argue that - until recently I hadn't heard of just poring
ammonia down the bore to get out copper. Good or bad, I've stuck with
off-the-shelf gun cleaners. CLP, IMHO, is worthless - and yes I was
forced to use it :). (I'm sure someone will have something to say
about that).
Went to www.shotgunreport.com and found recipe for Ed's Red:
"I've mixed Ed's Red, and one HAS to use it in a well
ventilated area, preferably outside. If you use it inside, you
really should use an appropriate respirator and exhaust fan to
remove the volatile and potentially explosive fumes. ...
Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal,
chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container.
...The acetone in ER will attack HDPE in about 6 months, making
a heck of amess!...
There isn't anything in Ed's Red which will chemically remove
copper fouling, but it does a better job on carbon residue than
anything out there."...
I assume (you don't have to say it) you then use ammonia to get rid of
the copper. From what I've read - don't you have to plug the bore,
fill with ammonia, let sit overnight, pour out ammonia, then get the
residual ammonia out?
Seems like a lot of trouble in obtaining chemicals/products, mixing
that stuff, dealing with various noxious chemicals, and storing in
appropriate containers, etc (in an apartment no less).
I would much rather run thru the bore a few patches soaked with
GunScrubber, then a couple soaked with brake cleaner, and then spray
WipeOut foam cleaner in barrel while I'm at the range (no plugging the
barrel and keeping it vertical, no risk of spillage, no dumping
cleaner out and "disposing of properly"). A few hours later, after I
get home/eat/etc, run two dry patches, one with brake cleaner, and
then one with oil - then put gun away until next time I shoot. End
result - a lot less time/effort, no fumes, no mess, less exposure to
chemicals, and only three small cans/bottles to store.
In case you're wondering, I cleaned the bore with WipeOut when I first
got a can and then tried to get any additional copper out with Sweet's
- not a hint of blue on the patch. It did take a couple of
applications before the patches came out clean with the WipeOut, but
again, there's no real effort/time/smell involved and Sweet's doesn't
work completely with only one application/patch either.
## By the way, BMW's go 15,000 miles between oil changes with synthetic oil, try that on a
## regular basis with non-synthetic oil. Many times you pay less in the long run by paying a little more up
#
#Hmmmm... drawing a correlation between a BMW (or any car) and a gun is
#an interesting aside. The demands on motor oil in a car engine and the
#requirements for lubrication of gun mechanisms are so different I can't
#see any reason to believe any results from one area are seriously
#applicable in the other.
I wasn't trying to make a correlation between a car and gun, but
simply using the environment of an engine to demonstrate the
difference in performance between synthetic and non-synthetic oils -
how synthetic oils don't break down/aren't affected by temperature(hot
or cold)/turn to sludge as readily as "dino" oils. In guns, like
engines, are they not subject to high heat and dirt, and, more so in
the case of semi-auto's, mechanical wear/friction? I do realize the
degree/duration of heat/friction are not comparable - are there any
other differences? If you can get better performance with no
additional cost/effort expended, why not go with the better
performance? If equally priced synthetic oil isn't affected as much by
the heat/humidity of the South + firing or the extreme winter in the
North, wouldn't it makes sense to use it instead of the "dino" oil? (I
have an uncle in Wisconsin that, I believe, uses oil in the summer and
graphite in the winter.)
#But just for giggles, are you suggesting that
#if you use synthetic oil on your guns, you'll only have to clean them
#1/3 to 1/5 as often as if you use "dino" oil, they'll be protected from
#rust 3 to 5 time longer, or what?
Lord, no!
Steve
R.Childers
but mighty purty finish fellers, use plain ol' shoe polish (Kiwi brown wax
is my favorite). I've used it for over 30 years on all my long guns with
wood stocks and they have a waterproof, beautiful, dark walnut shine that
I've only seen on $2000+ o/u shotguns. I've still got the last can I bought
10 years ago for less than a buck. BTW, it's also geat for shoes, boots,
leather belts and car seats! We even use to polish the floors with it when I
was in navy boot camp back in the early 70's. For only a dollar or so, you
can't beat it with a stick.
Bob C.
<delc...@mail.ab.edu> wrote in message
news:d8ccis$j13$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
#
# nedr...@yahoo.com wrote:
# # Does anyone have knowledge of using a synthetic gun oil (Birchwood
# # Casey) vs petroleum based (Rem oil)? Is one better for wood finishes
# # than the other? I was wondering if the Rem oil would start to gum up
# # the pores in the wood while the synthetic wouldn't. Any thoughts?
#
#
# Gun oil softens the wood. Modern urethane finishes are fairly
# oilproof, but you want to keep excess gun oil of any kind off the
# stock. Gun oils will penetrate linseed oil finishes.
#
# J. Del Col
Jim
I think I've learned more in the past few mintues reading about gun oil than
I've ever learned in the past 20 years I've been cleaning guns. This is the
best stuff I've read in an awfully long time. Keep up the good work guys.
Jim
In article <d8g7oi$747$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, jeke...@amplex.net says...