Reloading : Why are there no boat-tail handgun bullets?
pt
reloading for rifle doesn't require a mouth bell operation because the
bullets are usually boat-tails, making seating possible. If there were
boat-tail handgun bullets, I could skip a step.
So the question is in the subject, but I'll bet the answer has
something to do with "bearing surface area" or something like that.
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ballistic advantage. A lead bullet with a boat tail design may be more
inaccurate than a flat base because of the base deterioration caused by the
hot gasses pushing it out the barrel.
pt wrote:
> ...
MarkL
news:964llf$lbv$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
# Sitting around prepping some cases, and it occurred to me that
# reloading for rifle doesn't require a mouth bell operation because the
# bullets are usually boat-tails, making seating possible. If there were
# boat-tail handgun bullets, I could skip a step.
# So the question is in the subject, but I'll bet the answer has
# something to do with "bearing surface area" or something like that.
There are such things as "bevel base" handgun bullets. I'm not sure if the
purpose of the bevel is to aid in seating or to improve accuracy by
improving the way the bullet behaves as it exits the muzzle.
The purpose of a boat-tail is to reduce drag and thereby improve long-range
trajectory. This is mostly irrelevant in handguns (except those that
chamber rifle cartridges) because they are by nature short-range tools.
Even with a boat-tail, a short fat bullet will have a poor ballistic
coefficient. Add in the relatively low velocity of handguns compared to
rifles and the lower accuracy potential, and there's no point in putting a
boat-tail on a 9mm or .45 bullet.
Also, as you mentioned, the bearing surface would be a factor too. Handgun
bullets are short. Adding a boat-tail would probably reduce the bearing
surface to the point of doing more harm than good.
GOV20Il
WVanhou237
writes:
# Sitting around prepping some cases, and it occurred to me that
#reloading for rifle doesn't require a mouth bell operation because the
#bullets are usually boat-tails, making seating possible.
Actually, I'd say that *most* rifle bullets are not BT. More are flat
based. One of the steps in case preparation is to remove the sharp
corner inside the case neck to keep it from "shaving" the bullets.
That serves the same purpose as "belling" the mouth of a pistol
case.
# If there were boat-tail handgun bullets, I could skip a step.
# So the question is in the subject, but I'll bet the answer has
#something to do with "bearing surface area" or something like that.
#
Actually "boat tails" have more to do with "drag" and/or ballistic
coefficient as applied to bullets fired at long range. Their advantage
doesn't kick in untill after 4-500 yards.
BTW, how would you save a step ? Isn't the "belling" involved in the
resizing/de-capping or the powder dispensing stage ? (Depending
on which press you use.)
Bill Van Houten (USA Ret)
"No matter how hard you try, you can't throw a potato chip very far."
"Linus"
Ron Seiden
there's no practical gain. Also, handgun bullets are too short for the kind
of streamlining you see on rifle bullets.
"pt" <mnemo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:964llf$lbv$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
: Sitting around prepping some cases, and it occurred to me that
Jim Rogers
# reloading for rifle doesn't require a mouth bell operation because the
# bullets are usually boat-tails, making seating possible. If there were
# boat-tail handgun bullets, I could skip a step.
# So the question is in the subject, but I'll bet the answer has
# something to do with "bearing surface area" or something like that.
#
By 'handgun bullets' I'll assume you are talking about the more
'traditional' revolver and semi-auto pistol calibers like .25, .32, .38,
9mm, .357, .40, .44, and .45.
Boat tails wouldn't help these calibers much in the way of improving the
ballistic coefficient, although it might make reloading a little easier.
But the big problem is case capacity. If a bullet with a boat tail was
used, it would have to be seated deeper, reducing the space available for
powder. The bullet would also be longer (still have to have that bearing
surface and nose), which would make it heavier. Heavier bullets mean higher
pressures or lower velocities. Any ballistic 'gain' from the boat tail
would be lost. (Also I'm not sure, but suspect a boat tail is vastly more
effective at super-sonic speeds than at sub-sonic, where most handgun
bullets spend most of their time.) For cartidges designed to be used at
close ranges there just isn't much to be gained by boat tails.
IMHO
Roy D
# reloading for rifle doesn't require a mouth bell operation because the
# bullets are usually boat-tails, making seating possible. If there were
# boat-tail handgun bullets, I could skip a step.
# So the question is in the subject, but I'll bet the answer has
# something to do with "bearing surface area" or something like that.
#
first of all, most rifle bullets are not of boattail design. The long range
target varieties are and Sierra make a few for hunting. boattail bullets
were not designed to make them easy to seat in the cartridge case, they were
designed to reduce drag when fired. The efficiencies inherent to them are
only significant when the distances are long, 100 - 1000 yds. Handgun
bullets, on the other hand, are almost never intended to travel 100 yds.
Roy D
Sacramento
Gandalf
> ...
Bearing surface area is indeed important in handgun slugs. Also
manufacturing cost, and the fact that most handguns aren't used at
ranges much more than 25 yards. I'm sure some handgun hunters would like
some boat tail slugs, but the manufacturers would sell relatively few of
them. And for those handgun hunters using Contenders and rifle caliber
cartridges, they have all the boat tail slugs available in their caliber
of choice.
Steve Wolfe
# reloading for rifle doesn't require a mouth bell operation because the
# bullets are usually boat-tails, making seating possible. If there were
# boat-tail handgun bullets, I could skip a step.
# So the question is in the subject, but I'll bet the answer has
# something to do with "bearing surface area" or something like that.
Well, that and case volume. By the time you seat the bullet deeply
enough to get a good hold, the boat tail would be sticking so far in the
case that about 1/2 the volume would be taken up, not leaving you much room
for powder.
steve
Wes
speeds under 1150fps.
Wes
pt wrote:
> ...
douglas trabue
Hornady #35580 HP/XTP and #3559 FMJ-RN both 9 mm boatel bullets.
Doug T
Ken Marsh
First of all, there are, I think Sierra makes a 9mm boattail handgun bullet.
Multiple reasons.
1. handgun bullets have to obturate at much lower pressures than rifle
bullets. You are very lucky to get up to 35,000 PSI in a handgun.
Boattails actually encourage gas blow-by, while a flat base bullets
seals quickly and well. So, you get better accuracy and velocity
consistancy from the flat base.
2. At low velocities, slow twists and moderate ranges, flat base bullets
rule in accuracy. Look at bench rest competitors using 6BR and 6PPC, the
hand-made flat base bullets rule at 100 and 200 and often at 300 as
well. At 300 boat tails show more wind-insensitivity but for flat-out
absolute accuracy, the flat base bullets rule.
3. At subsonic and low supersonic speeds, the gains made by a boat tail
are very small to vanishing. Extending the nose is usually more
advantageous than extending the tail.
4. Manufacturing boat tail bullets cost more.
So, in the cost-benefit analysis, there's not much reason to bother.
By the way, rifle cases will still shave a boat tail bullet if the
chamfer step is not done. You could chamfer your handgun cases instead
of bell them; however, this is not (usually) an automatable step on a
progressive press, so belling the case is a more acceptable approach.
(Yes I know Dillon has a press-mounted case trimmer....)
Ken.
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Buddy Jordan
velocities aren't high enough, in general, to make use of a boattail.
It would be nice though.
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pane glass with less deflection, but even assuming that's true, it would be
even less likely for a less massive round with much lower velocity. Add in some
of the other points others have already made, and the demand for that design
feature drops from small but real, to non-existent. I think.
real_gri...@yahoo.co.uk
Reloading : Why are there no boat-tail handgun (at least in part)
1) They tend to be longer (duh) and pistol cases tend to be shorter so less
room for the powder?
2) Room in the Mag or Cylinder
Ralph Mowery
says...
#
# _I,_Sniper_ (fiction, forgot the author's name) says that boat-tails penetrate
# pane glass with less deflection, but even assuming that's true, it would be
# even less likely for a less massive round with much lower velocity. Add in some
# of the other points others have already made, and the demand for that design
# feature drops from small but real, to non-existent. I think.
#
#
#
The boat tail is for a better balistic coefficent. This is most useful
at long range. With most handguns designed for shooting at under 50
yards the loss in velocity would not be all that much.
I am not looking at the handguns designed for longer range target
shooting, but just defensive hanguns. Some of them use rounds that are
normally for rifles and therefor have boat tail bullets.