How loud is artillery?

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Mike Roce

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Feb 1, 2001, 8:22:46 PM2/1/01
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I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!

If anyone here knows, or can direct me to a good artillery link, please let
me know.

Thanks very much,

-Mike

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Lone_Wolf

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Feb 2, 2001, 8:29:02 AM2/2/01
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In <95d256$t5o$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu> "Mike Roce" <I'm.at...@work.com> writes:

#I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
#protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
#beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
#fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
#Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!

#If anyone here knows, or can direct me to a good artillery link, please let
#me know.

#Thanks very much,

#-Mike

You'll want ear plugs and ear muffs. Double protection.

James

Dale Farmer

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Feb 2, 2001, 8:27:26 AM2/2/01
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They should be providing you with hearing protection. Use it. Probably
they will give you earplugs to insert into your ear, and earmuffs to wear
over your ears. (Called double hearing protection ) Yes, wear both.
If you wear glasses, get a pair with flexible wire bows (The part that
goes over your ears.) So the the earmuffs can smoosh against your
head without leaving an air channel to conduct sound. Get a haircut
or a hair style that keeps the hair out from around your ears, for much
the same reason. Stay as far away as you can from the muzzle during
firing, and stay behind the gun. They will also tell you about things to
watch out for from the muzzle blast. There is a lot of energy there, and
if you are in the wrong place, it can injure or kill you. Enjoy the show.

--Dale

Mike Roce wrote:

> ...

David St. Hubbins

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Feb 2, 2001, 7:44:25 AM2/2/01
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ya know those drill seargents don't say I CAN'T HEAR YOU for no reason

JEB

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Feb 2, 2001, 7:47:40 AM2/2/01
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Loud enough that I can't hear you!

JEB
Ex-Field Artillery


Mike Roce wrote:

> ...

Richard Saucier

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Feb 2, 2001, 7:46:56 AM2/2/01
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Don't know how loud, but remember falling asleep while the 155s we're
pounding away! All the Army gave us were the little fit-in-your-ear plugs.
Of course, my hearing isn't perfect today!!

Gene Hackworth

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Feb 2, 2001, 8:36:55 AM2/2/01
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Mike, I have experience with both 105mm (towed) and 155mm (towed &
self-propelled). The 105mm is very loud, no question. The 155mm has a
tremendous concussion that shakes you to the core. We always used standard
earplugs or just put our hands over our ears. Of course if you were the
assistant gunner then you were the one who actually fired the piece and you
would typically wear earplugs as one of your hands would be busy pulling
the lanyard. When you stand next to a 155mm when it fires you are in
essence standing next to a controled explosion. Think about the forces
involved with sending a 100lb projectile several miles down range and you
can get an idea of the magnitude. Having also experienced howitzer fire
without hearing protection, I can assure you that it is not pleasent. It
is a tremendous adrenaline rush to pull the lanyard on a piece of heavy
artillery. -Gene Hackworth (C Battery, 1st Bn., 8th Field Artillery, 25th
infantry Division)

Andrew Walls

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Feb 2, 2001, 8:45:08 AM2/2/01
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If you are around firearms when they are being fired use ear protection. If
you are going to wear ear protection buy the best. Peltor make some very
good ear muffs. Even a cheap pair of muffs can be improved dramatically if
you wear ear plugs under them.

You have only one pair of ears - they will have to last you the rest of your
life. Spend a few dollers on hearing protection and use it!


--
Andrew Walls
Near the Arctic Circle
Norway
andrew...@nb.no

Mark Yaworski

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Feb 2, 2001, 8:35:56 AM2/2/01
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On 1 Feb 2001 20:22:46 -0500, "Mike Roce" <I'm.at...@work.com>
wrote:

#I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
#protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
#beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
#fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
#Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!
#
#If anyone here knows, or can direct me to a good artillery link, please let
#me know.

The only large caliber weapons that I've heard fired were five inch
guns on a ship. They were loud. Of course, I was 18 and thought that
the noise was cool. :-)

I'd get Peltor Ultimate 10 hearing protectors and wear foam ear plugs
under them.


Mark Yaworski <I speak for myself and nobody else.>
NRA Recruiter ID XR014173
Join NRA http://www.yaworski.com/nra
Federally Licensed Firearms Dealer
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor

Sometimes Basketball Referee
Othertimes Baseball Umpire
Certified Netware Administrator
And Other Things That No One Cares About

******

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of
authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made
to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are
men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They
promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
-Daniel Webster

Steve Wolfe

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Feb 2, 2001, 8:44:47 AM2/2/01
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# I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
# protection to bring with me.

I got to watch some 155mm howitzers shooting direct fire, it was nice.
You'd feel it three times - when the gun fired, when the round impacted, and
when the slower-moving shockwave came back to you. Interesting. It's been
a while, so I can't give a quantitative sound level, but I remember that it
scared the daylights out of all of us when they shot the first one after
waiting around for an hour. We all jumped about a foot into the air. : )

# I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
# beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
# fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much
louder.
# Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!
#
# If anyone here knows, or can direct me to a good artillery link, please
let
# me know.

If you have good, top-quality hearing protection, you'll be fine. If you
have muffs, you can always put some foam plugs in, then put on the muffs,
just to be safe. We either stuck our fingers in our ears, or used foam
plugs. Of course, that's assuming that you're not right next to the thing,
or in front of the line of fire! ; )

steve

romeyclone

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Feb 2, 2001, 8:40:58 AM2/2/01
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If your going to be a cannon cocker for Uncle Sam, he'll issue you
adequate hearing protection at Fort Sill. If your going to be a
mercenary, get some of those neat little yellow earplugs. I can
guarantee if you DONT wear hearing protection, soon you wont have
hearing to protect.

Good luck!

--
Clone
Occupied California

"Where do I stand in this form of power, where do I fit with this
government? I have no choice!"
-TSOL 'World War III'


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

Pat Cannon

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Feb 2, 2001, 8:42:04 AM2/2/01
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In article <95d256$t5o$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "Mike Roce"
<I'm.at...@work.com> wrote:

# I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
# protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
# beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
# fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much
# louder.
# Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!
#

When I was stationed at Ft. Hood, TX, I recall seeing the artillery guys
put in the same foam earplugs we all used on the rifle range, then a set
of earmuffs over that.

C Osiecki

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Feb 3, 2001, 2:37:35 AM2/3/01
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Mike Roce <I'm.at...@work.com> wrote in message
news:95d256$t5o$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
# I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
# protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
# beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
# fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much
louder.
# Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!

30 years ago we were touring Jefferson Proving Ground. As we walked to the
control house they were firing 60mm, 81mm and 4.2" mortars; that was the
first time I heard them, but we did not get bothered. When we got into the
all brick control house they fired the 105mm. It was not bad in the house,
but we forgot how the mortars sounded. Then... they fired the 155mm. Damn
that was loud and shoot the whole place, and it was not full charge due to
the range limits. When we came out the mortars just went poof...

Carl Porter

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Feb 3, 2001, 2:41:30 AM2/3/01
to
If I remember right a normal gun is in the 130-150db range
and I guess the howitzer is 150-180db or more. Do not get in
front of the gun when it fires else you will go permenantly
deaf. On ship we wore double hearing protection, ear plugs
rated at 29db reduction and muffs at 32db reduction, and it
was still loud.

Osmo Ronkanen

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Feb 3, 2001, 2:43:47 AM2/3/01
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In article <95dc9n$jt3$1...@news-int.gatech.edu>,
Lone_Wolf <gt6...@cad.gatech.edu> wrote:

#In <95d256$t5o$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu> "Mike Roce" <I'm.at...@work.com> writes:
#
##I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
##protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
##beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
##fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
##Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!

This is totally pout of memory but I recall that such guns are around
180dB, when rifles are around 160dB. The threshold for peak noise is
140dB. Above that one should use hearing protection even of a single shot.
With artillery one should use double protection and even then there is a
risk. These should be from typical distances, the noise reduces fast as
distance increases. If one were right at the muzzle of a cannon or howitzer
it probably would be fatal.

Increase of 10dB means tenfold increase in th pressure and about two
fold increase in the subjective level of the sound.

Osmo

Jim

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Feb 3, 2001, 2:41:50 AM2/3/01
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Depends on which side of it you are! <VBG> Giving end is loud and proud,
receiving end is "Oh shit!"
Jim


David St. Hubbins wrote in message ...
> ...

Psycho

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Feb 3, 2001, 2:41:03 AM2/3/01
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After 5 years as an aerial gunner in the Air Force, I can assure
you you will want some GOOD hearing protection.

On 1 Feb 2001 20:22:46 -0500, "Mike Roce" <I'm.at...@work.com>
wrote:

> ...

Ken Marsh

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Feb 3, 2001, 2:48:10 AM2/3/01
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Hi,

I don't know the actual sound in dB. I do know the US Army has sound
pressure guidelines and weapons systems are not accepted if they do not
meet them. This was the real end of some mortar systems and the
recoilless rifles. They lacked nothing in terms of tactical usefulness,
portability and effectiveness.

The propellant used is very slow by small arms standards, and the
afterburn is considerable, especially if you have loaded a lot of bags.
So, the rush seems very low frequency because it is so sustained. I
remember standing behind a safety barrier while firing, and the 155mm
How. would still flap my t-shirt. It would rock your world. With the
120mm gun it was more like a punch in the gut.

To all fellow (ex) gun-bunnies out there, "I see RED! Let's make some
noise!" :^)

Ken.
--
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Mail: kmarsh at charm dot net | Using a computer should not
WWW: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh | be a test of manual dexterity.
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SteelPig

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Feb 3, 2001, 2:53:19 AM2/3/01
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I hunt down at Fort Hunter Liggett and the camp grounds ar about 4 miles
from the Range where they practice with the Abrahms 120mm? Any way every
round they would fire at night would rock my Toyota truck I ended up wearing
My Peltor Tac 7's to sleep it was louder than 308 going off when heard
through a wall ten feet away. Get the best plugs you can find and then put
the best muffs over them and add some cotton to the inside of the muffs to
boot. Definitely not as bad when you are positioned directly behind the
Muzzle though.

WVanhou237

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Feb 3, 2001, 3:01:11 AM2/3/01
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In article <95d256$t5o$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "Mike Roce" <I'm.at...@work.com>
writes:

#
#I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
#protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit ------>

Like rifles, some are louder than others. A howitzer (long barrel) makes
a shotgun like *booooom*, and a gun (long barrel) makes a much sharper
*crack*. But all of them will make your shirt tail flap at 100 yds. However
you will be issued hearing protection before live firing.


Bill Van Houten (USA Ret)
"No matter how hard you try, you can't throw a potato chip very far."
"Linus"

JOHN GARAND

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Feb 3, 2001, 3:04:04 AM2/3/01
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ON 1 Feb 2001 20:22:46 -0500, "Mike Roce" <I'm.at...@work.com>
WROTE:

#I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
#protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
#beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
#fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
#Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!
#
#If anyone here knows, or can direct me to a good artillery link, please let
#me know.
#
#Thanks very much,
#
#-Mike

When I was a (cannon cocker) (gun bunny) (choose one), the Army issued
the old plastic ear plugs only. Between small arms firing when young
(.22s won't hurt you, will they?? Absolutely will), and 8" howitzer
(towed and SP), I have a real hard time between my high freq. hearing
loss and the tinnitus. I suspect the Army now issues both plugs and
muffs.

I knew I had a problem one day while standing with a group of HQ
people behind an 8" section when the fire mission went down range.
Everyone jumped except me. BTW the 8" Howitzer throws a 200 lb projo
up to 12 miles. Loud.

arn_werks

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Feb 3, 2001, 3:06:31 AM2/3/01
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Mike:
I was in the Tenth Marine Regiment, Fourth Battalion, Kilo
Battery, Headquarters Platoon and I am sure that the statutory
law time limit is gone. We did not use hearing protection and
the 105 howitzers were loud, so wear a pillow over earmuffs and
plugs.

But if you think that they are loud, we had a spare gun that us
weird people could play like we were cannon cockers. It did not
have a single intact land from chamber to muzzle and was near a
smooth bore but it was fast and we could out range any other gun
so we had to do a lot of tweaking. One evening after we had
been drinking our beer rats, some one called in an evening fire
practice and some one else wanted to get a good picture so I
poured a pint of kerosene/bore cleaner down the bore of of the
cannon and when it fired, it looked like we had had a gun blow
up and every body was yelling and running around while we hid
out for while. They are loud but boy, can they be bright.

Once a cannon cocker, you will always be condescending to any
thing less than a bore you can stick you fist in.

Wait until you have to burn a few hundred cut bags of powder.
That's a whole 'nother story and I would rather not admit to
some of the things we morons did.
Cordially,
Red

Mike Roce wrote:
> ...

James A Lawhon

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Feb 3, 2001, 3:09:56 AM2/3/01
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I was in a self-propelled 155mm howitzer battalion in West Germany
when there was a West Germany. I used standard ear plugs. The US
Army will issue you adequate hearing protection.
If you are inside the vehicle or behind the gun when it is fired, it's
not too bad, noisewise. You don't want to be anywhere near the end of
the muzzle, however. My understanding is that if you were under the
muzzle or up to 50 feet in front of it and it fired over your head,
the concussion would still be enough to kill you. At that point,
hearing will not be an issue.


On 1 Feb 2001 20:22:46 -0500, "Mike Roce" <I'm.at...@work.com>
wrote:

> ...

Jon B

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Feb 3, 2001, 3:16:20 AM2/3/01
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Artillery - at least Navy variety - is very, very loud. One afternoon many
years ago onboard the Sampson (DDG-10), I watched from the signal bridge as
the forward 5"/54 was trained off to the port side. I stood watching the
barrel ratchet up and down as the ship rolled, and I forgot to put my ears
on. When the first round went out it was LOUD, and hurt. It felt like
someone clocked me hard - I had a headache all afternoon.

Jon

Scott Sample

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Feb 3, 2001, 3:20:28 AM2/3/01
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Mike,
I'll give you some anecdotal evidence of how loud artillery is (I spent 10
years with 155s and missiles).
1989: At Grafenwoehr, Germany, a communications officer made the mistake
of wandering about 50 years in front of the neighboring 8" gun battery one
night. They found him unconscious, with both ears blown out, severe
concussion.

If you plan on working with it, double ear protection is the MINIMUM (ear
plugs and the best muffs you can find). The army no longer classifies
hearing loss as a "disability". They got tired of paying claims and health
care costs. They will test your hearing before you start playing with the
stuff, and you can compare the results ten years later. There isn't a
handgun, rifle, shotgun, or even a minigun made that can compare to some of
this stuff. Good luck.
SJSAMPLE

pyotr filipivich

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Feb 3, 2001, 5:55:46 PM2/3/01
to

How loud is artillery?

In a word: Very.

Painfully loud. So loud you will wish you were at an Aerosmith Concert!

Wear all the hearing protection you can get: earplugs and earmuffs. And
then see what you can do to be far away from the cannon when it goes off.

If you can feel the sound, you need earplugs. I was an "audiometric
technician" (I gave hearing tests) and I learned more about "noise" and
"threshold shift" than I wanted to.
pyotr filipivich
"If once a man indulges himself in Murder, very soon he comes
to think little of Robbing, and from Robbing he comes next to
Drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to Incivility and
Procrastination." T. De Quincy (1785-1859) "Murder Considered As One of the Fine Arts"

gloc...@webtv.net

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Feb 3, 2001, 6:17:20 PM2/3/01
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Any ex-battleship sailors here?

What are those 16-inchers like?

Joseph Lovell

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Feb 3, 2001, 7:23:02 PM2/3/01
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A friend of mine had been a master sergeant (?) with an ONTOS company, I think
I have that right, at Camp Pendleton. They were doing a live fire to get rid
of some junk duce and a halfs. Just about finished, the order came down to
finish out the last load outs but "Don't fire salvo." The "Don't" didn't come
through. 15 vehicles @ 6 tubes a piece, less 2 rounds makes 88 firing at
once. Cracked windows out to Fallbrook. From what he said he and the LT were
at attention in front of the base commander for about half an hour while he
very thoroughly chewed their butts into finely minced hamburger.
Growing up in Vista we could hear the 155s fairly clearly at night, and we were
25 to 30 miles from the range. The sound didn't seem to travel that well
during the day, or there was too much background noise,

Joseph

Scott Sample wrote:

> ...

Sagecucumber

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Feb 3, 2001, 7:29:00 PM2/3/01
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After 8 years in an M110A3 8" howitzer battery, I can assure you that while the
gun is certainly loud, after a while you sort of get used to it so I guess I
agree with the guy who talked about not really noticing it during a fire
mission. By the way, all the guys recommending double protection (muffs and
plugs) have not been on an actual firing line. There's alot of shouting going
on during a mission that you will need to be able to hear. The Army's gonna
give you a dinky set of ear plugs that mostly just takes the edge off the
concussion (get the triple flange kind at the PX if you have to). Lord, I miss
it so!

Michael,
Gainesville, Fl

"Artillery lends dignity to an otherwise unruly brawl."

Steve

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Feb 3, 2001, 7:30:06 PM2/3/01
to
Mike Roce wrote:

> ...

I used to stand right at the breech end of a 106 Recoiless, and
didn't wear any hearing protection ( no one suggested it or
required it, and I was much younger then, and never even
considered hearing protection ). My head was about 36 inches
from the open breech when it went off, and the noise bordered
on unbelieveable. These days, I can frequently be overheard
saying, 'huh, can you please speak up a little bit'. I can't say
for certain if my time around the 106 is the primary cause
for my marginalized hearing ( it's odd because in certain ranges,
my hearing seems to be MORE acute than others around me )
since I also shot a lot of other firearms, rode and raced noisy
motorcycles, and jumped out of various aircraft with any hearing
protection.

Cheers
Steve

John A. Stovall

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Feb 4, 2001, 7:32:36 AM2/4/01
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On 1 Feb 2001 20:22:46 -0500, "Mike Roce" <I'm.at...@work.com>
wrote:

#I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing


#protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
#beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
#fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
#Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!

Way too loud if you are the receiving end. On the other just remember
to keep you mouth open.

Really, if you are working with it you will be told what to expect the
type of hearing protection to use and how to conduct your self during
firings.

You don't hear Artillery. You feel it and it can be neat.


*****************************************************

"Chance proposes. Death disposes."
"African Genesis"
Robert Ardrey

Dale Farmer

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Feb 4, 2001, 8:35:04 AM2/4/01
to
Wasn't a battleship sailor, but one of the publicity shots that the Navy was

putting out when they reactivated the battleships was a photo straight down
from above a fraction of a second after a broadside was fired. At the bow
and stern you could see the wake caused by the guns pushing the whole
ship sideways. A 70,000 ton vessel, being pushed sideways hard enough
to make a wake. That's a lot of energy. Nobody is allowed to be on the
main deck during firing. Everyone on a weather deck ( outside ) is supposed

to be wearing double hearing protection.

--Dale

gloc...@webtv.net wrote:

> ...

Gfretwell

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Feb 4, 2001, 9:49:08 PM2/4/01
to
I was on a ship with 5" guns and my GQ station was in line of sight about 50'
away from the forward mounts. All I can say is firing them is such an assault
on all of your senses that hearing may be one of the least noticed. The long
term effects are bad though. I say "say again" a lot. This was the 60s and we
didn't seem to care about the health of the sailors. My sound powered phone
probably kept me from being totally deaf.

fsp

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Feb 4, 2001, 10:03:43 PM2/4/01
to
On 1 Feb 2001 20:22:46 -0500, "Mike Roce" <I'm.at...@work.com>
wrote:

#I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
#protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
#beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
#fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
#Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!

#

I served in 40, 90 & 155mm artillery units, and yes, they are loud,
but all of the above mentioned make a boom, rather than a crack.
Generally an in ear plug plus an external muff will provide good
protection. The only problem is when you have to be able to hear
firing commands. My hearing loss came from quad 50 cal machine guns,
which are something else again. Email me if you want more details.
Frank- formerly 1st Lt, Arty, US Army.

Steve Wolfe

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Feb 4, 2001, 10:07:43 PM2/4/01
to
# putting out when they reactivated the battleships was a photo straight
down
# from above a fraction of a second after a broadside was fired. At the bow
# and stern you could see the wake caused by the guns pushing the whole
# ship sideways. A 70,000 ton vessel, being pushed sideways hard enough
# to make a wake. That's a lot of energy. Nobody is allowed to be on the
# main deck during firing. Everyone on a weather deck ( outside ) is
supposed
#
# to be wearing double hearing protection.

One of my friend's fathers was on a battleship, and said that firing the
main guns would push the entire boat back three feet or more. That's some
serious recoil.

steve

mikeman

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Feb 5, 2001, 9:23:23 AM2/5/01
to
James A Lawhon wrote:
#
# I was in a self-propelled 155mm howitzer battalion in West Germany
# when there was a West Germany.

Yeah, it was kinda neat standing behind and to the side and watching
the
155 round for a fraction of a second highlighted against the clear blue
sky
as it went on it's way.
Mike

WVanhou237

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Feb 5, 2001, 10:07:04 AM2/5/01
to
In article <95i3i0$caq$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, gloc...@webtv.net writes:
#
#Any ex-battleship sailors here? What are those 16-inchers like?
#

I can tell you what 14"ers sound like from the other end. At about
a thousand yards from the impact zone. First you hear a really loud
whir-r-r-r for a couple seconds.Then the ground vibrates sharply.
A couple seconds later it sounds like a very close lightning strike.

We thanked the crew of the Wisconsin for their assistance.


Bill Van Houten (USA Ret)
"No matter how hard you try, you can't throw a potato chip very far."
"Linus"

JOHN GARAND

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Feb 6, 2001, 5:21:41 AM2/6/01
to
ON 3 Feb 2001 19:23:02 -0500, Joseph Lovell <sub...@sonic.net> WROTE:

#A friend of mine had been a master sergeant (?) with an ONTOS company, I think

The USMC ONTOS was a tank chassis fitted with 6 (106mm IIRC)
recoilless rifles. Certainly a different sort of firing noise than a
"standard" gun or howitzer.

george

unread,
Feb 6, 2001, 5:34:30 AM2/6/01
to
Mike:
Along with all the advice about ear protection, which I agree with,
here's something else that will save your hearing. Open your mouth wide
when the piece is fired. This will equalize pressure to both sides of
your eardrumbs and greatly reduce the pain.
George - Naval bombardment.

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for
those who didn't." Ben Franklin

James A Lawhon

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Feb 6, 2001, 5:35:55 AM2/6/01
to
I never really could see the 155mm shells in flight, I guess my
eyesight wasn't so good. I *could* see mortars fairly well, however.


On 5 Feb 2001 09:23:23 -0500, mikeman <mik...@alpha.wcoil.com> wrote:

> ...

pyotr filipivich

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Feb 6, 2001, 5:51:56 AM2/6/01
to
It was on 3 Feb 2001 19:29:00 -0500 that sagecu...@aol.com (Sagecucumber)
was inspired to write:

#After 8 years in an M110A3 8" howitzer battery, I can assure you that while the
#gun is certainly loud, after a while you sort of get used to it

Of course you get used to it - it's called "going deaf".

#so I guess I
#agree with the guy who talked about not really noticing it during a fire
#mission. By the way, all the guys recommending double protection (muffs and
#plugs) have not been on an actual firing line. There's alot of shouting going
#on during a mission that you will need to be able to hear.

I haven't worked a firing line, but I've worked industrial sites where
hearing protection was a good idea. With it on, I can make out what is on the
radio, with it off, I can't hear people talking next to me.

# The Army's gonna
#give you a dinky set of ear plugs that mostly just takes the edge off the
#concussion (get the triple flange kind at the PX if you have to).

And get spares.


pyotr filipivich
"If once a man indulges himself in Murder, very soon he comes
to think little of Robbing, and from Robbing he comes next to
Drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to Incivility and
Procrastination." T. De Quincy (1785-1859) "Murder Considered As One of the Fine Arts"

------------------------------------------------------------------------

pyotr filipivich

unread,
Feb 6, 2001, 5:52:54 AM2/6/01
to
It was on 3 Feb 2001 19:29:00 -0500 that sagecu...@aol.com (Sagecucumber)
was inspired to write:

#After 8 years in an M110A3 8" howitzer battery, I can assure you that while the
#gun is certainly loud, after a while you sort of get used to it

Of course you get used to it - it's called "going deaf".

#so I guess I
#agree with the guy who talked about not really noticing it during a fire
#mission. By the way, all the guys recommending double protection (muffs and
#plugs) have not been on an actual firing line. There's alot of shouting going
#on during a mission that you will need to be able to hear.

I haven't worked a firing line, but I've worked industrial sites where
hearing protection was a good idea. With it on, I can make out what is on the
radio, with it off, I can't hear people talking next to me.

# The Army's gonna
#give you a dinky set of ear plugs that mostly just takes the edge off the
#concussion (get the triple flange kind at the PX if you have to).

And get spares.


pyotr filipivich
"If once a man indulges himself in Murder, very soon he comes
to think little of Robbing, and from Robbing he comes next to
Drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to Incivility and
Procrastination." T. De Quincy (1785-1859) "Murder Considered As One of the Fine Arts"

------------------------------------------------------------------------

pyotr filipivich

unread,
Feb 6, 2001, 5:51:45 AM2/6/01
to
It was on 3 Feb 2001 19:30:06 -0500 that Steve <sre...@home.com> was inspired
to write:

#Mike Roce wrote:
#
# > ...
#
# I used to stand right at the breech end of a 106 Recoiless, and
#didn't wear any hearing protection ( no one suggested it or
# required it, and I was much younger then, and never even
# considered hearing protection ). My head was about 36 inches
# from the open breech when it went off, and the noise bordered
# on unbelieveable. These days, I can frequently be overheard
# saying, 'huh, can you please speak up a little bit'. I can't say
# for certain if my time around the 106 is the primary cause
# for my marginalized hearing ( it's odd because in certain ranges,
# my hearing seems to be MORE acute than others around me )
#since I also shot a lot of other firearms, rode and raced noisy
#motorcycles, and jumped out of various aircraft with any hearing
#protection.

All those are good reasons to wear earplugs. Interesting details - a lot
of truck drivers tend to be deaf in the left ear. Too many miles with the
window open and all the wind and road noise coming in the one side.


pyotr filipivich
"If once a man indulges himself in Murder, very soon he comes
to think little of Robbing, and from Robbing he comes next to
Drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to Incivility and
Procrastination." T. De Quincy (1785-1859) "Murder Considered As One of the Fine Arts"

------------------------------------------------------------------------

pyotr filipivich

unread,
Feb 6, 2001, 5:51:33 AM2/6/01
to
It was on 3 Feb 2001 02:41:30 -0500 that Carl Porter <cpor...@swbell.net> was
inspired to write:

#If I remember right a normal gun is in the 130-150db range
#and I guess the howitzer is 150-180db or more. Do not get in
#front of the gun when it fires else you will go permenantly
#deaf. On ship we wore double hearing protection, ear plugs
#rated at 29db reduction and muffs at 32db reduction, and it
#was still loud.

The industrial threshold is that at 85 dB hearing protection must be made
available, 90dB and it is mandatory (and you must wear it). Rule of thumb: If
you have to raise your voice to hold a conversation at "normal" conversation
distances, it is hearing protection time.

From my handy table of references - rush hour traffic is about 90 dB.
Standing next to a diesel bus when it pulls away from the curb is also about
90dB. Far to many clubs & bands are around 90dB. Jet aircraft on take off are
100 to 110dB, and around 120 dB the sound starts to become painful, especially
if you don't have earplugs in.

Jon B

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Feb 6, 2001, 5:56:17 AM2/6/01
to
Wisconsin must have been shooting sub-calibre sabots that day....

WVanhou237 <wvanh...@aol.com> wrote in message


# I can tell you what 14"ers sound like from the other end. At about

# a thousand yards from the impact zone. First you hear a really loud
# whir-r-r-r for a couple seconds.Then the ground vibrates sharply.
# A couple seconds later it sounds like a very close lightning strike.
#
# We thanked the crew of the Wisconsin for their assistance.

JOHN GARAND

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Feb 6, 2001, 6:01:37 AM2/6/01
to
ON 4 Feb 2001 22:03:43 -0500, fsp <fs...@home.com> WROTE:

#I served in 40, 90 & 155mm artillery units, and yes, they are loud,
#but all of the above mentioned make a boom, rather than a crack.
#Generally an in ear plug plus an external muff will provide good
#protection. The only problem is when you have to be able to hear
#firing commands. My hearing loss came from quad 50 cal machine guns,

Dang, Quad 50, Twin 40, Skysweeper (I assume not the pre-Skysweeper
90mm) AAA/ADA and ground arty too! Must be older than I am. :-))

JOHN GARAND

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Feb 8, 2001, 9:52:54 PM2/8/01
to
ON 6 Feb 2001 05:56:17 -0500, "Jon B" <JonB...@mindspring.com>
WROTE:

#Wisconsin must have been shooting sub-calibre sabots that day....
#
#WVanhou237 <wvanh...@aol.com> wrote in message
## I can tell you what 14"ers sound like from the other end. At about
## a thousand yards from the impact zone. First you hear a really loud
## whir-r-r-r for a couple seconds.Then the ground vibrates sharply.
## A couple seconds later it sounds like a very close lightning strike.
##
## We thanked the crew of the Wisconsin for their assistance.

Which war (II or Korea). I think all the old BBs with 14" main
batteries (e.g. USS Texas) which were in use during WW II were retired
by 1950. I thought the Wisconsin was an Iowa class, with 16" main
battery - as Jon B alludes to.

arn_werks

unread,
Feb 9, 2001, 11:48:46 AM2/9/01
to
Frank:
I think that I would describe quad fifties as having four gandy
dancers hitting you on the head like a rail road spike.

At Radar school we had some sort of X band AA gun that was fed
ny clips of, I think, 75 mm rounds (M-38 or close?). It was a
toy to us and then one day we found that it could track a
walking man and the fun was on. We would lock it on the outside
elevator of the Hotel Coronado and every jet we could find
taking off from the test strip right by the school. I think
that the F-102 could break track at about two miles with a hard
turn.

Too much fun to waste on young farts. Wish I was there now,
though it would take a chain hoist to load a '55 or even an
'05. Think that I could manage a 60 mm mortar.

Thanks for the memories,
Cordially,
Red

fsp wrote:
> ...

arn_werks

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Feb 9, 2001, 11:47:55 AM2/9/01
to
Sir:
Do not think that the ONTOS was a tank chassis, it seemed too
small for any tank that I ever saw, though maybe a 43 was that
small. One of the cutest things that I ever saw in the Marines
was an 8'' self propelled parked next to an Ontos. Looked like
Big Mama and Young Daughter going to look out for their Marines.

The nicest thing on the ONTOS, besides the six 106 recklesses
were the M20 (?) short .50 Semi auto spotting rifles. Flash and
smoke rounds that matched the 106's path so you could just
pecker along and when you saw smoke or flash on target, target
go boom.

Supposedly, the Army said that there was no need for so much
concentrated firepower on one vehicle. Marines said we can sink
a cruiser with one if we can sneak up on it, so they got it.
Every crunchy fire team wanted one of its own.

Like to know what tank chassis, because they seemed ore narrow
than any tank that I can remember.
Cordially,
Red

JOHN GARAND wrote:
> ...

Tony

unread,
Feb 9, 2001, 12:12:46 PM2/9/01
to
Mike Roce wrote:

> ...

WHAT'S THAT YA SAY? AIN'T NO CLOUDS IN MY ARTIERIES!!! I USED TO BE IN
ARTILLERY, THOUGH.......WHAT?

John A. Stovall

unread,
Feb 9, 2001, 9:21:14 PM2/9/01
to
On 9 Feb 2001 11:47:55 -0500, arn_werks <arn_...@mindspring.com>
wrote:

#Sir:
#Do not think that the ONTOS was a tank chassis, it seemed too
#small for any tank that I ever saw, though maybe a 43 was that
#small. One of the cutest things that I ever saw in the Marines
#was an 8'' self propelled parked next to an Ontos. Looked like
#Big Mama and Young Daughter going to look out for their Marines.
#
#The nicest thing on the ONTOS, besides the six 106 recklesses
#were the M20 (?) short .50 Semi auto spotting rifles. Flash and
#smoke rounds that matched the 106's path so you could just
#pecker along and when you saw smoke or flash on target, target
#go boom.
#
#Supposedly, the Army said that there was no need for so much
#concentrated firepower on one vehicle. Marines said we can sink
#a cruiser with one if we can sneak up on it, so they got it.
#Every crunchy fire team wanted one of its own.
#
#Like to know what tank chassis, because they seemed ore narrow
#than any tank that I can remember.

It wasn't a tank but an APC chassis.

"M50s hull was derived from the T55/T56 series of tracked APC."

http://members.aol.com/sturmpnzr/SPAT.html

Very good section on the Ontos.


******************************************************************

"To be governed is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed,
law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at,
controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by
creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom or the virtue to do so. To be
governed is to be at every operation, at every transaction, noted,
registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed,
licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed,
corrected, punished."
Pierre Proudhon

WVanhou237

unread,
Feb 10, 2001, 10:52:24 AM2/10/01
to
In article <95vm26$6gc$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, JOHN GARAND
<GARAND_...@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:

### We thanked the crew of the Wisconsin for their assistance.
#
#Which war (II or Korea). I think all the old BBs with 14" main
#batteries (e.g. USS Texas) which were in use during WW II were retired
#by 1950. I thought the Wisconsin was an Iowa class, with 16" main
#battery - as Jon B alludes to.
#

Korea -----X Corps (East coast)-----1951
I wouldn't want to bet the ranch on it, but I'm sure, at the time, we were
told they were 14s. At any rate, they turned a hill 802 into hill 782.


Bill Van Houten (USA Ret)
"No matter how hard you try, you can't throw a potato chip very far."
"Linus"

Gfretwell

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Feb 10, 2001, 7:18:33 PM2/10/01
to
You were misinformed The Wisconsin had nine 16"x 50 naval rifles.
http://www.usswisconsin.org/General/armament.htm

WVanhou237

unread,
Feb 12, 2001, 12:24:00 PM2/12/01
to
In article <964lop$ld7$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, gfre...@aol.com (Gfretwell)
writes:

#
#You were misinformed The Wisconsin had nine 16"x 50 naval rifles.
#http://www.usswisconsin.org/General/armament.htm
#
I consider myself correctly informed now.


Bill Van Houten (USA Ret)
"No matter how hard you try, you can't throw a potato chip very far."
"Linus"

JOHN GARAND

unread,
Feb 12, 2001, 12:46:09 PM2/12/01
to
ON 9 Feb 2001 11:47:55 -0500, arn_werks <arn_...@mindspring.com>
WROTE:

#Like to know what tank chassis, because they seemed ore narrow
#than any tank that I can remember.

I see John Stovall has come up with the answer and my recollection is
faulty. Oh well, I guess for an soldier to even know the ONTOS
existed isn't too bad. :-))

Tim Maxwell

unread,
Mar 2, 2001, 2:28:52 PM3/2/01
to
george wrote:

# Mike:
# Along with all the advice about ear protection, which I agree with,
# here's something else that will save your hearing. Open your mouth wide
# when the piece is fired. This will equalize pressure to both sides of
# your eardrumbs and greatly reduce the pain.
# George - Naval bombardment.

Thanks George, now tell mike if you are in the
turret or outside. I suspect inside. Now..
let me walk you through the experience outside.
Starting with a relatively small 5" 38.
I made the mistake early on getting curious what
all that "hammering" was outside on the weatherdeck.
A few of us ops crew decided to open a convenient
port side hatch to get a closer look. We were half way
back, seemingly far enough away to get a good view...
Then the first round went off.
Look... we had hearing protection, I even had my hands
over the protectors (30db ear plugs under headphones)
The sound blast slammed into us so hard it hurt all over.
LOUD? It was so loud we were fighting to get the
hatch open and pile inside.
Not...fast...enough...
half way into the hatch we got caught again. This time
I had learned to keep my mouth (Saying "wow" or
some such crap, I don't remember) SHUT.
Maybe inside the turret keeping your mouth open helps,
but outside it just allows the sound access to your none
too well protected ears. The "slamming" effect seemed
at least twice as loud with my mouth open, but even
closed it was just to much to stand still. It felt like getting
hit by a large sandbag head to foot. Part of it is a
"stunning" effect, disorienting...

This is a SMALL gun. Like others have said, you
do NOT want to be on deck when an 16", or even
an 8" goes off. It's not the ears...
it's the body.

WHUMPPPPPPPPP........then the buzz/ ringing
in the ears, and the feeling of being moved beyond
your control...
not a good place to be.

Tim


------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can learn about rec.guns at http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/rec.guns
* *

* "Shoot the best, forget the rest. Help our cause stop new gun laws." *
* Marylanders for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership raffles a *
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coas...@usa.nettt

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Mar 3, 2001, 2:06:36 PM3/3/01
to
Had to laugh when I saw the original post. T'was many years ago, but
I can still recall the first experience on a 105 crew. Those GI ear
plugs sucked, big time. After arriving in VN, I followed the example
of another battery and covered the ear plugs with a towel over my
head, then my helmet. It got really warm and looked kinda silly, but
the sound was suppressed to manageable "WHAM". And at my ripe old
age, I still have good hearing. "How loud is artillery?" I guess
it's all relative. Plus it's nicer to be on the sending end than the
receiving end.

On 2 Mar 2001 14:28:52 -0500, Tim Maxwell <tmax...@nobleharbor.com>
wrote:

> ...

jc58...@gmail.com

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Jul 4, 2019, 11:54:12 AM7/4/19
to
20 years later my ears are still ringing from not wearing hearing protection when a 155 fired
10 feet from me

Frank

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Jul 5, 2019, 4:13:24 PM7/5/19
to
On 7/4/2019 11:54 AM, jc58...@gmail.com wrote:
# 20 years later my ears are still ringing from not wearing hearing protection when a 155 fired
# 10 feet from me
#
A friend's father fired artillery in Nam. The VA is treating his
hearing loss as service related.

pcm...@gmail.com

unread,
Dec 5, 2019, 5:09:27 AM12/5/19
to
On Thursday, February 1, 2001 at 6:22:46 PM UTC-7, Mike Roce wrote:
# I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
# protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
# beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
# fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
# Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!
#
# If anyone here knows, or can direct me to a good artillery link, please let
# me know.

I know a guy who was in a WWII howitzer battery that practically went deaf.

Go figure.

MR

unread,
Dec 5, 2019, 8:39:10 AM12/5/19
to
On 12/5/2019 5:09 AM, pcm...@gmail.com wrote:
# On Thursday, February 1, 2001 at 6:22:46 PM UTC-7, Mike Roce wrote:
# # I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
# # protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
# # beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
# # fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
# # Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!
# #
# # If anyone here knows, or can direct me to a good artillery link, please let
# # me know.
#
# I know a guy who was in a WWII howitzer battery that practically went deaf.
#
# Go figure.
#
Below is a link that may help. I worked around artillery, jets etc. and
always wore external type earmuffs as much as possible. This was in the
60's and I would guess ear protection is much better these days. If I
had internal ear protection in addition to the ear muffs it would have
been better, since the concussion from blast sometimes would move the
ear muffs and it was painful. I have constant buzz in ears today, but
don't hear any voices.<BG>
MR

http://www.noiseandhealth.org/article.asp?issn=1463-1741;year=1999;volume=2;issue=5;spage=1;epage=15;aulast=Dancer

pyotr filipivich

unread,
Dec 5, 2019, 10:24:41 PM12/5/19
to
pcm...@gmail.com on Thu, 5 Dec 2019 10:09:25 +0000 (UTC) typed in
rec.guns the following:
#On Thursday, February 1, 2001 at 6:22:46 PM UTC-7, Mike Roce wrote:
## I might be working with it soon, and I'd like to know how much hearing
## protection to bring with me. I'm used to the firing range, where I sit
## beside people discharging everything from .222 to 12 Gauge shotguns, and
## fire .30 calibre myself. But surely a 105 or 155 mm howitzer is much louder.
## Nobody's told me yet what to do about that!
##
## If anyone here knows, or can direct me to a good artillery link, please let
## me know.
#
#I know a guy who was in a WWII howitzer battery that practically went deaf.
#
#Go figure.

A) it is loud.
B) really loud.
C) the shockwave moves dirt - not just the dust - dirt.
D) no matter how much hearing protection you have, you are going
to feel the sound.

So, if it were me, and I had time to prepare, earplugs _and_
earmuffs.


--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

Frank

unread,
Dec 8, 2019, 9:21:13 AM12/8/19