SIG P229 (Wear on aluminum alloy frame)
Harris Paltrowitz
because I hadn't received my license yet, and from all the reading I had
done I thought I would prefer a Glock. However, I handled a P229 today in
a store, and fell in love with the size, shape, and balance. The price
quoted to me may be high ($775) but it's probably worth it. Anyway, are
there cases of excessive wear related to the aluminum alloy frame? I
remember reading something about this happening at the point of contact
between the slide and the frame.
Of course, the P228 is the same size gun with a steel frame. However, I
was planning on getting a .40 or the .357 SIG, and these are only available
on the P229.
Any thoughts? Thanks.
David M. Putzolu
#There was a thread on this a few weeks ago, but I didn't follow it closely
#because I hadn't received my license yet, and from all the reading I had
#done I thought I would prefer a Glock. However, I handled a P229 today in
#a store, and fell in love with the size, shape, and balance. The price
#quoted to me may be high ($775) but it's probably worth it. Anyway, are
#there cases of excessive wear related to the aluminum alloy frame? I
#remember reading something about this happening at the point of contact
#between the slide and the frame.
Peter Jordan authored an excellent article in the rec.guns FAQ
about precisely this subject:
III. Firearm Information by Type
C. Semi-Automatic Pistols
2. Models and Manufacturers
p. Sig Sauer
7. Are Sig Aluminum Frames Weak?
It can be retrieved at:
http://www.teleport.com/~dputzolu/IIIC2p7.html
Always check the FAQ first!
David M. Putzolu I don't speak for anyone but myself
dput...@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/FAQ/RecGuns.shtml
--
David M. Putzolu I don't speak for anyone but myself
dput...@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/FAQ/RecGuns.shtml
Earl Battey
#
#
I didn't follow that thread (because I don't care what rumors are being spread
bout my beloved gun :)
I've owned my P229 for over a year and love it. It's not had a tremendous
amount of rounds through it (less than 1000 I imagine) but still looks brand
new. I don't see how the problem you describe should occur (at least on a
SIG<G>). It's called galling and was once common on stainless steel weapons,
however metallurgy has progressed quite a bit since the first stainless steel
pistols and this problem is rarely encountered today.
I've shot a variety of reloads and factory ammo in my Sig with all types of
bullet sizes (135gr-200gr) and have never experienced a malfunction. I had a
set of Meprolite night sites installed (like them better than the Siglites) and
have been very happy with the combination. It is an expensive pistol,
especially if you pony up for a couple of high capacity magazines such as I
did. However, my personal opinion is it has no second. I've owned many, many
pistols by almost every manufacture except Glock (that's ANOTHER story<G>) and
the SIGs (as well as the .40 calibre) are my favorite.
Earl
Night Man
#There was a thread on this a few weeks ago, but I didn't follow it closely
#because I hadn't received my license yet, and from all the reading I had
#done I thought I would prefer a Glock. However, I handled a P229 today in
#a store, and fell in love with the size, shape, and balance. The price
#quoted to me may be high ($775) but it's probably worth it. Anyway, are
#there cases of excessive wear related to the aluminum alloy frame? I
#remember reading something about this happening at the point of contact
#between the slide and the frame.
#
#Of course, the P228 is the same size gun with a steel frame. However, I
#was planning on getting a .40 or the .357 SIG, and these are only available
#on the P229.
#
#Any thoughts? Thanks.
The P228 has an alloy frame, like all SIG's except the P210. The
difference between the P228 and P229 is that the P229 has a stainless
steel, one piece slide--the P228 has a carbon steel, two piece
slide.
The problem of the "wear" of the frame on the P229 is a bunch of bull-
don't worry about it!
Nothing feels, or shoots, like a SIG. Buy one, and you will never
regret it.
RBH
Doug Owen
: There was a thread on this a few weeks ago, but I didn't follow it closely
: because I hadn't received my license yet, and from all the reading I had
: done I thought I would prefer a Glock. However, I handled a P229 today in
: a store, and fell in love with the size, shape, and balance. The price
: quoted to me may be high ($775) but it's probably worth it. Anyway, are
: there cases of excessive wear related to the aluminum alloy frame? I
: remember reading something about this happening at the point of contact
: between the slide and the frame.
:
Actually this wear should go just the opposite of what you'd think. The
frame wears the steel. Aluminum oxide (which forms almost instantly on
raw aluminum when it hits the air) is sandpaper, right? Given even fair
lube, wear almost doesn't happen.
P38s (amongst others) have been alloy framed for years. My 225 shows no
such wear, dispite my efforts.
OTOH, the history with alloy 1911 Colts is the lightweight frames are
20,000 or so round guns (yea, I know YOURS went over 200,000. . . . .)
where the steel ones outlast ya. Here the frames usually fail at the
slide stop pin hole, end of the hood or somesuch. The don't "wear out".
Jump right in, the water's fine!
Doug Owen
Jeff Bryant
#
# There was a thread on this a few weeks ago, but I didn't follow it closely
# because I hadn't received my license yet, and from all the reading I had
# done I thought I would prefer a Glock. However, I handled a P229 today in
# a store, and fell in love with the size, shape, and balance. The price
# quoted to me may be high ($775) but it's probably worth it. Anyway, are
# there cases of excessive wear related to the aluminum alloy frame? I
# remember reading something about this happening at the point of contact
# between the slide and the frame.
#
# Of course, the P228 is the same size gun with a steel frame. However, I
# was planning on getting a .40 or the .357 SIG, and these are only available
# on the P229.
#
# Any thoughts? Thanks.
I checked my P229 yesterday. I've only put about 500 rounds through it,
but there is NOT A MARK on the frame, anywhere. All smooth, silky black.
Absolutely no indication of wear.
Allen Home
#On 31 Jan 1996 21:52:13 -0500, dput...@teleport.com (David M.
#Putzolu) wrote:
##Peter Jordan authored an excellent article in the rec.guns FAQ
##about precisely this subject:
##
##III. Firearm Information by Type
##C. Semi-Automatic Pistols
##2. Models and Manufacturers
##p. Sig Sauer
##7. Are Sig Aluminum Frames Weak?
##
##It can be retrieved at:
##
##http://www.teleport.com/~dputzolu/IIIC2p7.html
##
##Always check the FAQ first!
##
##
##David M. Putzolu I don't speak for anyone but myself
##dput...@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/FAQ/RecGuns.shtml
#
#I will offer the following counterpoint to Peter Jordan's enthusiastic
#but one-sided endorsement of all SIG-SAUER products:
#
#There are documented problems with excessive frame erosion SPECIFIC to
#the P-229 pistol, well above normal wear patterns of the 9mm pistols.
#
#Jordan has included a minimal reference to this in his FAQ.
#
#It is true that SIG-SAUER stands behind their products 100%, and will
#replace any frame displaying this excessive wear.
#
#However, there is a big difference between NO PROBLEM, and SOLVING A
#PROBLEM at no charge.
#
#
#I don't agree. I bought two NIB P-229s, both of which were defective.
#SIG-SAUER accepted these defective P-229s for return, and I was given
#a full refund. This was a satisfactory resolution to the PROBLEM, but
#it is not the same as NO PROBLEM.
#
<snip>
#D.Ayers
#
Okay I will add my data point to this contest. Everything that Mr. Ayers
mentions is true with my particular sample P229. I was a fool hardy and
purchased the first USP40 and Sig P229 when they were initailly released.
Since my gun shop has a good reputation with both of these companies they
had no problem getting early samples. My P229 was ( and still is) NIB.
After reading Mr. Ayers post I checked the location under the frame rails
and sure enough there is already wear from just the factory function firings.
This wear is not the normal wear that is seen in some guns, it is a galling
type. I own both a Sig P228 and a P226 ( with hundreds of rounds fired through
each) and neither of these guns have slide wear or galling. The slides fit the
frame perfectly. This may not be true for the P229. But I am keeping it anyway
even though it is past the limited warranty time. If the P229 does exibit
excessive wear on the frame I will send it back to Sig for repair or another
gun.
BTW, I know the difference between normal wear and galling type wear from
poorly machined parts. I purchased one of the first Beretta 92F made in the
USA in 1989 ( read fool hardy again). The gun is fired over 7000 rounds without
a failure using normal factory loads. However the steel slide had several burrs
that dug into the soft aluminum frame. The wearing process eventually stopped
but I used a pin file to remove any such burrs ( I managed to file off some of
the Bruntion finish in the process). I don't mind that much since the 92F is
my house gun so I shoot it the most during range practice.
On another note: I purchase one of the first USP40's from H&K. They were
recalled because the guide rod breakage from hot +p loads. The spring rod
was replaced, a striffer spring for the decocking lever was installed. It
was curious that they also wanted the original mags back, I later found
out why. The current USP mags have a serial number painted on them that
shows up in Black light. My mags didn't have this, they were marked accordingly
when I sent them back to the factory. I have no complaints about my USP other
than the original slide finish is not as durable as the later models and
that it does not have a captive spring ( my gun is below the 1000 serial #).
The gun is fabulously accurate right out of the box ( has the original button
rifling not the polygonal rifling later introduced).
I am going to wait a year until all the bugs in the Sig P239 and glock 27
are worked out before I buy them.
..and No! I am not interested in selling any of my pistols but thank you for
asking.
...ah
Brett A. Naquin
it. I have never seen any bad press about the design of the Sigs slide.
Sig Saur puts a lot of time and money into R&D and I doubt they would
release a defective product. My .40 Sig 229 has been the most reliable
and easy to maintain weapon I've ever owened. I received my concealed
carry permit a few weeks ago and am very impressed with the ease of
concealing the Sig. I think you will make a wise choice if you purchase
one. You may want to check around a little...the price you mentioned
seemed a little high. You can pick one up at a gun show for $670.00.
Brett
Austin, Republic of Texas
- "I do not own guns and I'll shoot any S.O.B. that tries to prove
otherwise"
Night Man
I have fired over 1200 rnds. of .357 SIG in my P229 without any
indication of the frame wear that has been described in this forum.
Also, my Beretta 92F has never shown abnormal frame wear after
countless rnds. of factory ammo.
Perhaps the reason is that I clean my guns after each shooting
session, use quality lubricants, and avoid so called +P and any other
type of non-standard ammunition.
RBH
Emmanuel Baechler
#First of all, the Sig 228 does not have a steel frame. All of the Sigs
#made in Germany (except for the P230 stainless steel) have aluminum alloy
#frames. I presently own a 229 (40 cal.), and a 220 (.45 American). Both
#have aluminum frames. I have never heard of one which had a worn-out
#frame. I have even seen used 220's from the police dept. with many rounds
#through them and the frames were still in good shape. IMHO, Sig pistols
#are one of the most reliable, longwearing handguns you can buy.
Sure. I'm not surprized that heavily used P-220 were still in good shape.
But the gun considered in this thread is the .40 P-229. All manufacturers
who tried to adapt 9x19 frames to the .40 had problems. For example, glock
had to reinforce its frames with a second pin. HK chose do dimension its
USP on the .40 and then to adapt it to the 9x19. S&W did the same for the
Sigma. By the way, what is the lifetime of the alloy framed .40 from S&W?
SIG-SAUERs are excellent, even outstanding handguns. But their frame has been
designed with the 9x19 (and the .45ACP) in mind, not the .40. I did hear of
problems with intensively shot P-229 from several channels, and all are consistent.
would it be so surprising if the metllurgy (or the dimensions) of these frames,
although excellent for the 9x19 and the .45 were not well adapted to the .40?
Emmanuel Baechler
Chemin du Stade 4
1007 Lausanne
Switzerland
Emmanuel Baechler
Emmanuel Baechler
Your Bud Wes
: But the gun considered in this thread is the .40 P-229. All manufacturers
: who tried to adapt 9x19 frames to the .40 had problems. For example, glock
: had to reinforce its frames with a second pin. HK chose do dimension its
: USP on the .40 and then to adapt it to the 9x19. S&W did the same for the
: Sigma. By the way, what is the lifetime of the alloy framed .40 from S&W?
: SIG-SAUERs are excellent, even outstanding handguns. But their frame has been
: designed with the 9x19 (and the .45ACP) in mind, not the .40. I did hear of
: problems with intensively shot P-229 from several channels, and all are consistent.
: would it be so surprising if the metllurgy (or the dimensions) of these frames,
: although excellent for the 9x19 and the .45 were not well adapted to the .40?
SIG Saur spent over 2 years developing the P229 specifically for the .40
cartridge. The frame is aircraft quality aluminum, the slide is machined
from a solid block of stainless steel. In fact, SIG delayed it's release
because they wanted it to be absolutely reliable with certain ammo(I think
it was the Federal truncated cone Hydrashok).
I have fired nearly a thousand rounds of Federal 357SIG with only enough
wear on the frame to indicate that it MIGHT be used. This cartridge
equals the amount of energy in the hottest .40 available. I am curious what
1520 fps Cor Bon rounds will do to it.
BTW, the gun has yet to jam, either on me or my Fiance'.
Take care,
WYK
Howard McCollister
#The p228 has an alloy frame. The main difference is the slide for the
#229 is made of one piece of stainless steel in the USA and the 228 has a
#couple of pieces of normal steel and in manufactured in Germany.
#Buy them all. :) (eventually)
#
##
#
#
The P229 slide is machined out of a single piece of stainless steel while
the other P's are carbon steel bent over a mandrel with the breech block
pinned in.
$775 is pretty steep for a 229. I paid $710 at Gander Mountain and bought
it anyway. I know they go for less at gun shows etc. but the availability
is spotty.
HMac