.223 vs .243 for blowing up crows?
TANKIE
I see that a 223 Contender costs more than some rifles do so I am considering
rifles for crow at 100 yards. I like the 223 but tue 243 is legal for deer in
my state so I like it too. Which round would do better in a 100 yard group
test? I want a new low prices production rifle, maybe a Savage. I recently saw
good things here about the Savage, except that in heavy calibers its recoil is
like its name, savage. However, I don`t expect this to be a problem in a .243
or .223. Right? Anyway, if the 243 shoots well at 100 yards that will be my
choice. A 243 will blow up a crow won`t it? And shoot nice and flat too? I
just like the additional flexability of the larger round. For what I want is
there any down side to the 243 over the 223?
Thanks
MNellis382
Tankie, I dont see a down side, as you said the .243 can be used for deer also.
Some light hollowpoints or V Max, Ballistic Tips, for crows/varmints would be
the ticket, and heavier game bullit for Bambi. Whoops! Downside is higher ammo
cost with .243 which to me is negated because of versatillity. As to which
round would group better at 100yd., both are good performers here so accuracy
would be more dependent on the action and barrel. I wouldnt be to concerned
about recoil as the .243 is fairly tame. Cant go wrong with Savage unless you
enjoy waxing the furniture now and then.
Mike> I like the 223 but tue 243 is legal for deer
#Which round would do better in a 100 yard group
# I recently saw
#good things here about the Savage, except that in heavy calibers its recoil
#is
#like its name, savage.
# For what I want is
#there any down side to the 243 over the 223?
Frank Kleinburg
TANKIE wrote:
#
# I see that a 223 Contender costs more than some rifles do so I am considering
# rifles for crow at 100 yards. I like the 223 but tue 243 is legal for deer in
# my state so I like it too. Which round would do better in a 100 yard group
# test? I want a new low prices production rifle, maybe a Savage. I recently saw
# good things here about the Savage, except that in heavy calibers its recoil is
# like its name, savage. However, I don`t expect this to be a problem in a .243
# or .223. Right? Anyway, if the 243 shoots well at 100 yards that will be my
# choice. A 243 will blow up a crow won`t it? And shoot nice and flat too? I
# just like the additional flexability of the larger round. For what I want is
# there any down side to the 243 over the 223?
# Thanks
If you plan on doing a lot of shooting, a 243 will eat the bore a lot
faster
then a .223.. flk kk
Bterr
Buy the .243 and use a hollow point for varmints and a 100gr. soft point for
deer.
Luv 2 load
# A 243 will blow up a crow won`t it? And shoot nice and flat too? I
#just like the additional flexability of the larger round. For what I want is
#there any down side to the 243 over the 223?
The ammo for the .223 is a lot cheaper, the .223 barrel will last a lot longer
and in my experience, the .223 is more accurate or at least easier to shoot
accurately. My Savage light varmint regularly puts 5 shots in less than 3/4"
at 100 yards and frequently breaks the 1/2" mark. I only wish my model 70
Winchester in .243 could shoot so well. Chuck
Spydaman
TANKIE wrote:
#
# I see that a 223 Contender costs more than some rifles do so I am considering
# rifles for crow at 100 yards. I like the 223 but tue 243 is legal for deer in
# my state so I like it too. Which round would do better in a 100 yard group
# test? I want a new low prices production rifle, maybe a Savage. I recently saw
# good things here about the Savage, except that in heavy calibers its recoil is
# like its name, savage. However, I don`t expect this to be a problem in a .243
# or .223. Right? Anyway, if the 243 shoots well at 100 yards that will be my
# just like the additional flexability of the larger round. For what I want is
# there any down side to the 243 over the 223?
# Thanks
Crows aren't very tough critters, at 100 yards even a 22 LF or 22 mag
from a rifle would do 'em in just fine. If you were only shooting crows
at 100 yards, the 223 is more than adequate. But as you stated, 243 is
much more versital. They are both comperable in accuracy with a slight
edge in inherent accuracy going to the 223. If you want to hunt deer
to, then go with the 243. Just use the lightest (40 grain) loads on the
crows and the heaviest loads (105 grain or more) on deer. And practice,
practice, practice. Shot placement, especially when hunting big game is
of utmost importance. The Savage is a good choice for a hunter on a
budget. The trigger's alittle heavy and creapy, right from the box, but
it shoots alot better then a gun at that price should be allowed to,
better than alot of rifles costing twice as much. Happy hunting!
KMiddle532
#,
#Either of those rifles should knock down a crow....and then some.( More like
#vaporize) It's gonna get a little expensive though. 223 would be the
#cheapest of
#the two, with all the Military ball on the market. Why not hunt your crows
#with a
#.22 ? you can buy a 500 round brick of ammo for a few bucks, and shoot all
#day.
#Just my $.2
#Richard
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
Don't know about you, but the crows 'round these parts won't hold still for
.22's, some will stay put for a .223, but most require the likes of my 22.250,
or .243 on windy days.
KM in NC
jrn
kmidd...@aol.com (KMiddle532) wrote:
##,
##Either of those rifles should knock down a crow....and then some.( More like
##vaporize) It's gonna get a little expensive though. 223 would be the
##cheapest of
##the two, with all the Military ball on the market. Why not hunt your crows
##with a
##.22 ? you can buy a 500 round brick of ammo for a few bucks, and shoot all
##day.
##Just my $.2
##Richard
##
##
##
##
##
##
##
##
#
#Don't know about you, but the crows 'round these parts won't hold still for
#.22's, some will stay put for a .223, but most require the likes of my 22.250,
#or .243 on windy days.
#KM in NC
#
I second KM's comment. You must have tame/pet crows to hold still at
100 yards. The ones around here won't let you get within 200 yards.
300 is more like it. One shot and you'd better move (which often
precludes a bench -- which is neccessary to connect regularly with a
long range pistol) to find more crows 'cause they won't be back for a
LONG time.
jrn Virginia. Also seems to be the way of crow in western NY state.
Warren H. Farrar
[snip]
#I second KM's comment. You must have tame/pet crows to hold still at
#100 yards. The ones around here won't let you get within 200 yards.
#300 is more like it. One shot and you'd better move (which often
#precludes a bench -- which is neccessary to connect regularly with a
#long range pistol) to find more crows 'cause they won't be back for a
#LONG time.
#
[snip]
Crows are pretty intelligent actually. Around here they are much more
flighty around humans with weapons than without. I've never had crows
sit still within easy rifle range when I've had a rifle out in the open.
Foraging crows typically have one sentry or look out while the rest are
on the ground foraging. Try to get into a covered position, behind brush,
whatever, without spooking the sentry. If you can knock down the sentry
without revealing your position, frequently another crow will fly up to
take it's postion. I've had a couple doubles like this. But, after 2-3
shots, the flock generally gets idea and flys.
Happy Hunting
Warren
rutledge
jrn wrote:
# I second KM's comment. You must have tame/pet crows to hold still at
# 100 yards. The ones around here won't let you get within 200 yards.
# 300 is more like it. One shot and you'd better move (which often
# precludes a bench -- which is neccessary to connect regularly with a
# long range pistol) to find more crows 'cause they won't be back for a
# LONG time.
I'll add my two bits, also.
My dad has a cherry tree about 95 to 100 yards from his house located
down the hill in a little valley such that it's safe to shoot, and ...
crows being crows, they'd come in for the cherries. I'd use the
upstairs corner bedroom as a blind.
The .22 was not 100% lethal even when you hit 'em. Sometimes, they'd
actually sidestep the incoming bullet. I dunno if they just heard the
shot and moved or if they actually saw the bullet. Very frustrating.
We also had ravens go for the same cherries. The .22 was exactly 0%
lethal on them other than one head shot I made.
The .22 mag, on the other hand, was 100% on crows. It was fast enough
they did NOT sidestep. It was 100% on ravens, too ... it'd shoot clear
through them.
Aside from that one specific location, I've never been able to reliably
get with 150 yards of crows. Once they know you're after 'em, 300 yards
is "close."
The best way to get 'em is camo and a crow call or predator call and a
shotgun ... or a .220 Swift.
Tom
Fergus Bailey
###
###
##
##Don't know about you, but the crows 'round these parts won't hold still
for
##.22's, some will stay put for a .223, but most require the likes of my
22.250,
##or .243 on windy days.
##KM in NC
##
#I second KM's comment. You must have tame/pet crows to hold still at
#100 yards. The ones around here won't let you get within 200 yards.
#300 is more like it. One shot and you'd better move (which often
#precludes a bench -- which is neccessary to connect regularly with a
#long range pistol) to find more crows 'cause they won't be back for a
#LONG time.
#
#jrn Virginia. Also seems to be the way of crow in western NY state.
#
Seems to be the case with crows around the globe. We find that a 22-250 or
220 swift is pretty much required due to the longer nature of most shots. A
6mm is a better choice. Crows are generally well educated, and shots suited
to a 6mm are more common than shots suited to a .22. Once they get out to
400-500 yards they seem to feel a little safer though.
A friend has just had a 6mm/284 made up. Should be just the thing.
Fergus Bailey
KMiddle532
#
#The .22 was not 100% lethal even when you hit 'em. Sometimes, they'd
#actually sidestep the incoming bullet. I dunno if they just heard the
#shot and moved or if they actua
At that range they likely heard the bullet coming first, standard and even
"high" velocity .22lr go subsonic at that distance, thus can be heard first
(BTW it's a high pitch whining noise, I've heard it before).
KM in NC
Carl Porter
# I'll add my two bits, also.
#
# My dad has a cherry tree about 95 to 100 yards from his house located
# down the hill in a little valley such that it's safe to shoot, and ...
# crows being crows, they'd come in for the cherries. I'd use the
# upstairs corner bedroom as a blind.
#
# The .22 was not 100% lethal even when you hit 'em. Sometimes, they'd
# actually sidestep the incoming bullet. I dunno if they just heard the
# shot and moved or if they actually saw the bullet. Very frustrating.
# We also had ravens go for the same cherries. The .22 was exactly 0%
# lethal on them other than one head shot I made.
#
# The .22 mag, on the other hand, was 100% on crows. It was fast enough
# they did NOT sidestep. It was 100% on ravens, too ... it'd shoot clear
# through them.
#
# Aside from that one specific location, I've never been able to reliably
# get with 150 yards of crows. Once they know you're after 'em, 300 yards
# is "close."
#
# The best way to get 'em is camo and a crow call or predator call and a
# shotgun ... or a .220 Swift.
#
# Tom
We had crows that used to eat my dog's food. I found a Nylon 66
with .22 shorts (single fed) & a silencer worked well. I killed the
entire bevy & none of them flew away. I guess city crows are just to
used
to people & noise to know better.
Fluid
Someone wrote:
# ...Sometimes, they'd actually sidestep the incoming bullet.
# I dunno if they just heard the
# shot and moved or if they actually saw the bullet....
Very doubtful that they heard the shot. High velocity bullets would
arrive before the sound of the shot. Sub-sonic bullets would arrive so
soon after the sound of the shot that the nerve impulses from ear to
brain may not have arrived yet. Besides, how would they know which way
to jump? As for seeing the bullet....?
Jay T
J.Lee
I first thought you guys to be just joking but I'm beginning to believe
that you folks actually do hunt crows with rifles? What, ya'll don't
have squirrells, bobcats, foxes, coons, chipmonks, deer, hogs, wolves,
coyotes, geese, ducks, quail or doves in your part of the world or are
you just trying to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
might even give it a shot if there is no season on them to keep me
practice during off seasons on the others. JLee in S.C.
Carl Porter wrote:
> ...
rutledge
J.Lee wrote:
#
# I first thought you guys to be just joking but I'm beginning to believe
# that you folks actually do hunt crows with rifles? What, ya'll don't
# have squirrells, bobcats, foxes, coons, chipmonks, deer, hogs, wolves,
# coyotes, geese, ducks, quail or doves in your part of the world or are
# you just trying to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
# might even give it a shot if there is no season on them to keep me
# practice during off seasons on the others. JLee in S.C.
# Carl Porter wrote:
# > ...
We're serious.
Dunno about other folks' reasons, but I shoot 'em to stop 'em from
stripping the cherry crop outa my dad's cherry trees. Also to keep 'em
from digging up the corn seed when he plants his corn crop.
Once the cherries are picked and the corn is up, then I leave 'em alone
'cause they do a good job of controlling grasshoppers.
"Balance" is the key.
Tom
KMiddle532
#.
#
#Very doubtful that they heard the shot. High velocity bullets would
#arrive before the sound of the shot. Sub-sonic bullets would arrive so
#soon after the sound of the shot th
I disagree Jay, nearly all .22lrs. have dropped to subsonic speed at 100 yards,
and they can be heard enough in advance for a creature that survives by it's
wits, such as crows, to get a visual and be able to take evasive action.
KM in NC
Bill Edwards
In article <348C04...@sccoast.net>, jaso...@sccoast.net says...
#
#I first thought you guys to be just joking but I'm beginning to believe
#that you folks actually do hunt crows with rifles? What, ya'll don't
#have squirrells, bobcats, foxes, coons, chipmonks, deer, hogs, wolves,
#coyotes, geese, ducks, quail or doves in your part of the world or are
#you just trying to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
#might even give it a shot if there is no season on them to keep me
#practice during off seasons on the others. JLee in S.C.
# > ...
No flame here either. Has something changed over the last few years or are
crows still protected by federal law as a migratory bird??
Bill Oertell
J.Lee wrote:
#
# I first thought you guys to be just joking but I'm beginning to believe
# that you folks actually do hunt crows with rifles? What, ya'll don't
# have squirrells, bobcats, foxes, coons, chipmonks, deer, hogs, wolves,
# coyotes, geese, ducks, quail or doves in your part of the world or are
# you just trying to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
# might even give it a shot if there is no season on them to keep me
# practice during off seasons on the others. JLee in S.C.
Don't know about your part of the world, but out here in the west
the darn things are pretty much considered pests. They're all over the
place, and they ain't good for anything. They've pretty much decimated
the Morning Dove population in my district of San Francisco. Too bad we
can't shoot 'em.
Bill
Carl Porter
# The ammo for the .223 is a lot cheaper, the .223 barrel will last a lot longer
# and in my experience, the .223 is more accurate or at least easier to shoot
# accurately. My Savage light varmint regularly puts 5 shots in less than 3/4"
# at 100 yards and frequently breaks the 1/2" mark. I only wish my model 70
# Winchester in .243 could shoot so well. Chuck
If yours is the heavy barreled Model 70 in .243 it should. Mine would
print 3/8" 5 shot groups at 100 yards before it was stolen :(. I had a
rather
nice gentleman help out when I first started, the gun was shooting
larger
groups than I had remembered & he suggested I tighten the screws on the
ring
mounts for the scope. It "magically" started shooting well again.
Fergus Bailey
J.Lee wrote in message <348C04...@sccoast.net>...
#I first thought you guys to be just joking but I'm beginning to believe
#that you folks actually do hunt crows with rifles? What, ya'll don't
#have squirrells, bobcats, foxes, coons, chipmonks, deer, hogs, wolves,
#coyotes, geese, ducks, quail or doves in your part of the world or are
#you just trying to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
#might even give it a shot if there is no season on them to keep me
#practice during off seasons on the others. JLee in S.C.
We do have game animals such as deer, hogs ducks and quail, but we dont have
any of the varmints you mention, with the exception of fox. None the less, I
find crows to be a very satisfying target. I could quite happily shoot them
all day. Add to that their annoying habit of pecking out the eyes of young
or sick sheep, and I've got all the justification I need.
Fergus Bailey
RiverRat
Bill Edwards wrote:
#
# In article <348C04...@sccoast.net>, jaso...@sccoast.net says...
# #
# #you just trying to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
# #might even give it a shot if there is no season on them to keep me
# #practice during off seasons on the others. JLee in S.C.
#
Here is the best page on crow hunting I have ever seen (and one of the
bet pages I have been to....).
http://www.clark.net/pub/glkrause/crowhunt.htm
river rat
Rich Pierson
J.Lee wrote:
#
# that you folks actually do hunt crows with rifles? What, ya'll don't
# have squirrells, bobcats, foxes, coons, chipmonks, deer, hogs, wolves,
# coyotes, geese, ducks, quail or doves in your part of the world or are
# you just trying to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
# might even give it a shot if there is no season on them to keep me
# practice during off seasons on the others. JLee in S.C.
# Carl Porter wrote:
# > ...
Chipmonks, ya gotta be kidding, they're too much fun
to watch and you can have one eating out of your hand
in less than an hour...Up he in PA you even walk into
a field with a shotgun and you'd think crows were and
extinct species. Ya need to sneak up on them, full camo
or have a real early stand with a couple of owl decoys.
They can also tell the difference between a gun and a
stick at 200 yards.
We went out a few months ago to a field that was packed
with crows, eating corn and making a racket. Pulled out
the first rifle and it must of taken 5 minutes for the
dust to settle and there was not a crow to be seen.
--
*************************************************
Richard J. Pierson
fi...@ptd.net
My opinions are my own as are my mistakes...
*************************************************
rutledge
Bill Edwards wrote:
# No flame here either. Has something changed over the last few years or are
# crows still protected by federal law as a migratory bird??
We have a season & bag limit on crows in Oregon, so they are considered
a game bird. (This is probably federal.)
In my case, it is irrelevant. I can shoot 'em under "good farm
practices" law. Crop depredation, etc.
Tom
rutledge
KMiddle532 wrote:
#
# #.
# #
# #Very doubtful that they heard the shot. High velocity bullets would
# #soon after the sound of the shot th
#
# I disagree Jay, nearly all .22lrs. have dropped to subsonic speed at 100 yards,
# and they can be heard enough in advance for a creature that survives by it's
# wits, such as crows, to get a visual and be able to take evasive action.
# KM in NC
Ya know ... that describes what I've seen so well that it *must* be
what's going on.
I appreciate the info.
See how Mr. Crow likes Mr. .17 and Mr. Swift. (Step outa the way of
*that* you ... varmint.)
Tom
Lorrin Lee
Fluid wrote:
#
# Someone wrote:
# # ...Sometimes, they'd actually sidestep the incoming bullet.
# # I dunno if they just heard the
# # shot and moved or if they actually saw the bullet....
#
# Very doubtful that they heard the shot. High velocity bullets would
# arrive before the sound of the shot. Sub-sonic bullets would arrive so
# soon after the sound of the shot that the nerve impulses from ear to
# brain may not have arrived yet. Besides, how would they know which way
# to jump? As for seeing the bullet....?
#
# Jay T
When growing up, and shooting at crows and Magpies, (both considered to
be smart/crafty birds) I also noticed that both of them would swerve
suddenly as soon as the gun would go off. They also jumped sideways when
shot at while standing. I never could figure out how they did that...
I'm assuming that I always missed because they did this, and not because
I was a bad shot :) . By the way, I did find that ground squrrels CAN
side step an arrow shot at 220 fps from 25-35 yards and completey avoid
being hit. You can actually hit the exact spot they were standing when
you realease (this is really frustating when you have spent 6 months
practicing enough to shoot well enough to hit a ground squirrel, and
aren't seeing any deer that day..)
Lorrin
Rich Pierson
Bill Edwards wrote:
#
# crows still protected by federal law as a migratory bird??
In PA they are open season 7 days a week, same as
ground hogs. They were protected several years ago
but not now.
--
*************************************************
Richard J. Pierson
fi...@ptd.net
My opinions are my own as are my mistakes....
*************************************************
Ed Loomis
On 9 Dec 1997 08:18:16 -0500, Bill Oertell <woer...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
#J.Lee wrote:
##
## I first thought you guys to be just joking but I'm beginning to believe
## that you folks actually do hunt crows with rifles? What, ya'll don't
## have squirrells, bobcats, foxes, coons, chipmonks, deer, hogs, wolves,
## coyotes, geese, ducks, quail or doves in your part of the world or are
## you just trying to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
## might even give it a shot if there is no season on them to keep me
## practice during off seasons on the others. JLee in S.C.
#
# Don't know about your part of the world, but out here in the west
#the darn things are pretty much considered pests. They're all over the
#place, and they ain't good for anything. They've pretty much decimated
#the Morning Dove population in my district of San Francisco. Too bad we
#can't shoot 'em.
#
# Bill
Crows are also predators who kill more ducks every year than all
hunting efforts combined by raiding nests in the northern nesting
areas. If some bunny hugger goes off on you about crows needing
protection as a migratory species ask them why they hate ducks so
much.
--
Ed Loomis
e...@wco.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Metamorphosis by Herbatrol; The most comprehensive single diet supplement
on the market. Go to http://www.goodbiz.com/edl/ for complete information.
AShavers
In article <348C04...@sccoast.net>, "J.Lee" <jaso...@sccoast.net> writes:
# first thought you guys to be just joking but I'm beginning to believe
that
#you folks actually do hunt crows with rifles? What, ya'll don't
have
#squirrells, bobcats, foxes, coons, chipmonks, deer, hogs, wolves,
coyotes,
#geese, ducks, quail or doves in your part of the world or are
you just trying
#to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
might even give it a
#shot if there is no season on them to keep me
practice during off seasons on
#the others. JLee in S.C.
Hey JLee,
They must not have pecan trees in SC. Crows will clean a tree of its pecans
in short order if you don't keep discourging them. They are smart and if you
do hit one with a .22lr, they don,t fall unless you really hit him in his
vitals. I don't think they can side step a bullet as someone suggested, they
just fly away and die somewere else. Stingers at 50 yards or less will do the
job. You must use some type of blind such as a window or car and you only get
one shot. They are smart and they do use sentrys.
When the pecans start to fall, there are not many things that can wake you up
with the excitement you get when a crow is cawing in the pecan tree{8>)
Stan
Jonathan M. Spencer
In article <666tqc$p...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, Luv 2 load <luv2...@aol.com>
writes
[223 vs 243 for crows]
I have both so I feel I can be fairly objective.
#The ammo for the .223 is a lot cheaper, the .223 barrel will last a lot longer
Firstly, you'll want to be using handloads unless by chance some
factory load produces good accuracy. Secondly, you'd need to be
firing ammo by the thousand for it to matter i.e. to wear out the
barrel. And by then, an awful lot of crows will have been despatched.
In any case, in the US, getting a rifle rebarrelled is cheap enough
anyway. Cost isn't a deciding issue IMO.
#and in my experience, the .223 is more accurate or at least easier to shoot
#accurately. My Savage light varmint regularly puts 5 shots in less than 3/4"
#at 100 yards and frequently breaks the 1/2" mark. I only wish my model 70
#Winchester in .243 could shoot so well.
Yes, maybe, but that's only one data point. There are much bigger
variations from rifle to rifle due to random factors than can be tied
down between the 223 and the 243 IMO. Here's a case in point. I
bought two Winchester Model 70s, at the same time from the same
production run. One shoots like a dream for its purpose of deer
stalking (1" groups) the other shoots only 'good enough' (2 1/2"
groups or worse). *Both* guns are 30-06s. What does this prove? It
proves there's all kinds of variations that can't be tied down.
The 243 can shoot just as well as your 223 (both my 223 and 243 do
this). In any case, a crow (our crows) represents about 3" of target
so even a rifle that shoots 2" groups is up to the task.
In my experience, crows are unlikely to offer 100 yards targets,
because they'll be off like a shot, 200-300 is more like it. At those
kind of distances, the 243 or 6mm Rem has a decided advantage because
of the heavier bullets. For example, it's easy to obtain 3,300fps
with an 80grn bullet, and 3,000fps with a 100grn bullet. Just look at
the ballistics of a 55grn .224" bullet over 300 yards in a 25mph side
wind, and compare them to the 243. With the 223, you're going to miss
more often. And the crows are not going to wait to give you a second
shot.
Plus, the 243 makes a decent deer rifle, which the 223 doesn't. Not
in a novice's hands, for sure.
I recommend the 243 for this application, and suggest either the
Remington 700 or the Winchester 70 but not the Savage nor the Ruger.
Go and look at the rec.guns FAQ/web site for an article on 'the ideal
deer rifle' for an eye opener on what makes a decent sporting rifle.
--Jonathan
Jonathan Spencer -- forensic firearms examiner
Keith Borer Consultants
Mountjoy Research Centre, Durham, England, DH1 3UR
tel: +44 191 386 6107 fax: +44 191 383 0686
TANKIE
Crows are about the only animal I shoot that I DO NOT LIKE. I view crows as
cock roaches. They are evil. (wasn`t there something the Indians beleaved
about crows sucking out their souls?). I`d hit them with a 50 cal or a flame
thrower. Here in central Virginia they are considered as useless by most and
have been heavily hunted for many many years, and they still won`t go away.
How about a small ground to air missle that homes in on their ugly sorry call.
PS...whenever I see a crow that I am not killing I get the feeling he is
laughing at me. This never happens with deer, turkeys or rabbits.
Daniel
On 9 Dec 1997 08:17:30 -0500, bi...@vcn.com (Bill Edwards) wrote:
#In article <348C04...@sccoast.net>, jaso...@sccoast.net says...
##
##I first thought you guys to be just joking but I'm beginning to believe
##that you folks actually do hunt crows with rifles? What, ya'll don't
##have squirrells, bobcats, foxes, coons, chipmonks, deer, hogs, wolves,
##coyotes, geese, ducks, quail or doves in your part of the world or are
##you just trying to be different? Hey, no flame, to each his own. I
##might even give it a shot if there is no season on them to keep me
##practice during off seasons on the others. JLee in S.C.
##Carl Porter wrote:
## > ...
##
#
#No flame here either. Has something changed over the last few years or are
#crows still protected by federal law as a migratory bird??
#
#
In Mississippi, we were allowed to shoot crows year round, but
that was a few years ago. The laws might have changed...
Daniel
dmo...@REMOVETHIS.airnet.net
*remove REMOVETHIS. to reply
============================
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============================
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around her neck than to see a gun in her hand!
============================
Gun haters: why did gun sales make a record 10%
INCREASE during the same period crime DROPPED 10%
Greg
My response has been just the opposite. I regualarly shoot crows from
my bedroom window with a Beeman R-1 .20 cal air rifle. They perch in
the neighbors sycamore tree next door. When I hit one, loads more come
over and I can ususally get several more.
E.G. Clayton
On 9 Dec 1997, Rich Pierson wrote:
# Bill Edwards wrote:
# #
# # No flame here either. Has something changed over the last few years or are
# # crows still protected by federal law as a migratory bird??
#
# In PA they are open season 7 days a week, same as
# ground hogs. They were protected several years ago
# but not now.
This is a new one on me. I have never lived anyplace where the crows
were considered anything but pests. They seem very prolific even
in places where people actively try to exterminate them.
As to the title of this thread, does't it seem a bit dangerous to
fire a .223 or .243 up into the air? I'm thinking of overtravel
here. That bullet has to come down somewhere. I would use a shotgun
for blasting crows.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Clayton
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Rich Pierson
Greg wrote:
#
# My response has been just the opposite. I regualarly shoot crows from
# my bedroom window with a Beeman R-1 .20 cal air rifle. They perch in
# the neighbors sycamore tree next door. When I hit one, loads more come
# over and I can ususally get several more.
Your neighbors probably trying to figure out why all those
crows are dying in his yard too, must also be a real PIA
cleaning them out of the lawn mower :-)
"Where the hell are all these dead crows coming from"
Rich Pierson
E.G. Clayton wrote:
#
#
# # #
# # # No flame here either. Has something changed over the last few years or are
# #
# # In PA they are open season 7 days a week, same as
# # but not now.
#
# This is a new one on me. I have never lived anyplace where the crows
# were considered anything but pests. They seem very prolific even
# in places where people actively try to exterminate them.
#
# As to the title of this thread, does't it seem a bit dangerous to
# fire a .223 or .243 up into the air? I'm thinking of overtravel
# here. That bullet has to come down somewhere. I would use a shotgun
# for blasting crows.
Thats a different kind of crow hunting, shooting them
on the wing. A tough thing to do in the corn fields of
PA. A firearm in the field creates a visual dead zone
around you, you can hear em but not a one to be seen.
Reminds me of a poster in rec.hunting wanting to know
if a pistol grip 12ga was good for his bass boat. I
thought so but was curious as to how he got em to flush
high enough out of the water to get a shot at. I thought
he might have been on to something new.... He never
responded. :-)
--
*************************************************
Richard J. Pierson
fi...@ptd.net
My opinions are my own as are my mistakes...
*************************************************
Christopher Lym
E.G. Clayton (cla...@rouge.phys.lsu.edu) wrote:
: As to the title of this thread, does't it seem a bit dangerous to
: fire a .223 or .243 up into the air? I'm thinking of overtravel
: here. That bullet has to come down somewhere. I would use a shotgun
: for blasting crows.
Now, a shotgun -- that is what I was thinking. WHy not get a bunch of
buddies with autoloaders, set up a trap or lure for crows, and just go at
it with some light shot? Multiple hits will ensure downed crows,
hopefully. Try like 4-5 people shooting at once towards the trapping
area. Is this illegal??
Chris
Dave Phetteplace
Here is Arizona crow season is from Sept 1 to Dec 31, no permit
required. (According to 1997-98 Hunting Regs.)
I did hear something about crows being protected now because they
are migratory birds.. Is that why we can't hunt them year-round?
Next thing you know people will be protesting pigeon shoots....
--
David Phetteplace
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits"
-Albert Einstein
* * * *
AShavers
Crows are about the only animal I
#shoot that I DO NOT LIKE. I view crows as
cock roaches. They are evil.
You remind me of my brother who hates possums. He said that he would stop on
an Interstate highway and back up in order to run over a possum. :-)
Krister Engvoll
Rich Pierson wrote: Your neighbors probably trying to figure out why all
those
# crows are dying in his yard too, must also be a real PIA
# cleaning them out of the lawn mower :-)
Im my neighborhood, I overheard people talking about a mysterious disease
among magpies and crows.
The birds were falling down from trees for no apparent reason (other than a
.177 pellet to the head).
Crows were collected as the "lensmann" (sherriff) paid 2$ a piece for them,
magpies went into the neighbors dog. I guess he really wanted a snowman like
this one:
http://www.phys.ntnu.no/~engvoll/snowman.avi (large 2,7M)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Krister Engvoll
Laboratoriet for Radiologisk Datering
Sem Sælandsvei 5
7034 Trondheim
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tlf. jobb 73 59 33 11
tlf. priv 73 88 88 15, mobilsvar 924 10 704
e-mail: eng...@phys.ntnu.no
http://www.phys.ntnu.no/~engvoll
-------------------------------------------------------------------
KMiddle532
#
#Your neighbors probably trying to figure out why all those
#crows are dying in his yard too, must also be a real PIA
#cleaning them out of the lawn mower :-)
#
#"Where the hell are all these dead crows coming from"
#
#
Thanks Rich, best laugh I've had today.
KM in NC
KMiddle532
#
#I did hear something about crows being protected now because they
#are migratory birds.. Is that why we can't hunt them year-round?
#
#
Has to do with some stupid treaty with Mexico, more for political
purpouses, most fishcops won't waste their time hassling some over crows.
KM in NC
Andrew George
Christopher Lym wrote:
#
# E.G. Clayton (cla...@rouge.phys.lsu.edu) wrote:
# : As to the title of this thread, does't it seem a bit dangerous to
# : fire a .223 or .243 up into the air? I'm thinking of overtravel
# : here. That bullet has to come down somewhere. I would use a shotgun
# : for blasting crows.
#
# Now, a shotgun -- that is what I was thinking. WHy not get a bunch of
# buddies with autoloaders, set up a trap or lure for crows, and just go at
# it with some light shot? Multiple hits will ensure downed crows,
# hopefully. Try like 4-5 people shooting at once towards the trapping
# area. Is this illegal??
#
# Chris
Only if you get caught :o)
--
Andrew George
ch...@isomedia.com
Andrew George
Speaking of illegal, desert crows in Utah were so smart, that the second
you tried to stop to get out of your vehicle for a shot, they'd haul
ass. I've "heard" of people who would just slowly drive up to a bunch
of them on the ground, and have a buddy in the bed of the truck jump up
and blast away! At least three down every time. Tsk, Tsk...
Also, crows are tough so don't use light shot. Number 5 should be the
smallest, and #4 works great (so I've heard).
--
Andrew George
ch...@isomedia.com
jlee
Krister Engvoll wrote:
> ...
Jeez, those magpies are mean little buggers. 5 months in Australia
taught me to keep a baseball cap on not for cover of flying bird poop
but to keep one from taking off my head. Jlee
John Clifford
I have shot a few crows (more than a dozen, less than a hundred) with
rifles of various calibers, from the .177 pellet rifle to the .30-'06.
They ALL work, as long as you stay within the caliber's limitations.
I prefer to shoot crows with at least a .22 Hornet, because I like to know
that I've hit them AND I like to see the black puff that results from a
good hit with an explosive bullet. Too often, when I have shot them with a
.22 rimfire, they merely keel over as if I knocked over a crow decoy. The
most dramatic kills have been with the .223 Remington using a 52-grain
Sierra boattail hollowpoint... instant black puffs and not enough crow to
know that it WAS a crow, except that there's a lot of black feathers around
where a crow was sitting a second ago.
Nosler's new 55-grain Ballistic Tip seems like it would be a GREAT crow
bullet. It's easy to get over 4,000 ft/sec with this in the .243, and the
bullet's BC is higher than the .223 55-grain Ballistic Tip (meaning it will
shoot flatter and retain velocity better). This ought to do at 300 yards
what a .223 will do at the muzzle, and should make 400 yard shots on crows
easily makeable depending upon your rifle's accuracy. I've bought a couple
boxes of these but have yet to whip up a load, sigh. I'm hoping that these
will be as dramatic, and effective (and FAR more accurate than) the few
crows I've popped with Remington Accelerators out of an '06.
Of course, the 6.71 Lazzeroni Blackbird (.264 caliber, 100 grain bullet at
3960 ft/sec) I'm building will have to be tried out on its namesake....
John Clifford
Weapons Safety, Inc.
13215 SE 30th Street
Bellevue WA 98005
phone: 425-649-8623
fax: 425-644-5302
email: john...@ix.netcom.com
url: http://www.weaponssafety.com
Disclaimer: Who needs 'em? I represent myself now!
Gary Anglin
"John Clifford" <john...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
#...snip
#Nosler's new 55-grain Ballistic Tip seems like it would be a GREAT
crow
#bullet. It's easy to get over 4,000 ft/sec with this in the .243,
and the
#bullet's BC is higher than the .223 55-grain Ballistic Tip (meaning
it will
#shoot flatter and retain velocity better)....snip
Hey, John,
I haven't seen the .243 55 grain Ballistic Tip; out here in the
sticks we don't get new stuff very often. Does it really have a higher
BC than the .223 version? I thought that the BC of the longer,
skinnier bullet would be higher than the shorter, fatter bullet at the
same weight, assuming the same bullet material and same muzzle
velocity. What's going on here?
Tom
The way to do it is thus:
Go deer hunting; one will be assured of many crows. Carry multiple
firearms. If the crows aren't around, surely the squirrels will be. Perhaps
a ferral hog will walk by.
Now for crow hunting , carry the .243 because many large bucks will surely
be surprised.
Humorous satire,
Tom
Plano TX
Andrew George <Ch...@isomedia.COM> wrote in article
<66qcmv$a...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# Christopher Lym wrote:
# #
# # E.G. Clayton (cla...@rouge.phys.lsu.edu) wrote:
# # : As to the title of this thread, does't it seem a bit dangerous to
# # > smallest, and #4 works great (so I've heard).
# --
# Andrew George
# ch...@isomedia.com
#
#
Bill Oertell
Hmmm...I wonder how my 125 gr .30 cal Nosler BTs squiting out of my
.300 Win Mag will do to a crow. Muzzle velocity is near 3,500 fps, and
the bullet's BC is darned good, too. The bullet expands very rapidly,
so I'd think there'd be very little left of whatever crow you hit with
it. I gotta give this a try sometime.
Bill
gmcm...@phnxpop1.phnx.uswest.net
Bill Oertell wrote:
# Hmmm...I wonder how my 125 gr .30 cal Nosler BTs squiting out of my
# .300 Win Mag will do to a crow. Muzzle velocity is near 3,500 fps, and
# the bullet's BC is darned good, too. The bullet expands very rapidly,
# so I'd think there'd be very little left of whatever crow you hit with
# it. I gotta give this a try sometime.
#
# Bill
POP!!!red and black fog
TANKIE
#Hmmm...I wonder how my 125 gr .30 cal Nosler BTs squiting out of my
#.300 Win Mag will do to a crow. Muzzle velocity is near 3,500 fps, and
#the bullet's BC is darned good, too. The bullet expands very rapidly,
#so I'd think there'd be very little left of whatever crow you hit with
#it. I gotta give this a try sometime.
#
# Bill
#
I like the way you think! How would an M14 do for crows? A 308 should
get a 125 up to near 3000 fps. That ought to shoot pretty flat. I carried an
M14 in the Army. How does the M14 group at 100 yards? Can you put a decent
scope on them? How much do they cost? How about the Norinco version? (I have
a norinco 45 that is as good as a Colt). Thanks.
rutledge
Bill Oertell wrote:
#
# Hmmm...I wonder how my 125 gr .30 cal Nosler BTs squiting out of my
# .300 Win Mag will do to a crow. Muzzle velocity is near 3,500 fps, and
# the bullet's BC is darned good, too. The bullet expands very rapidly,
# so I'd think there'd be very little left of whatever crow you hit with
# it. I gotta give this a try sometime.
#
# Bill
I can't tell ya about crows, but about 5-6 years ago I used 'em on a
jackrabbit hunt using a Ruger #1V in .300 Win Mag.
It didn't "red mist", but I'd get an airborn cloud of hair, bunny
innards scattered though the sage brush, and the mangled hide looked
like it went through a chipper. :-( As my baby sister said ... "Oooh,
ick! ... can I try??"
I'm waiting to get some of 'em moly coated and run 'em through my
brother in law's Warbird and go coyote huntin'.
Tom
hald
The best crow medicine I've used was a Remington 700 BDL in .17 Rem. A 25g
bullet at 4100fps is about as good a crow pill as I've seen. Plus there is no
recoil to move the scope before bullet impact. Only with a .17 will you see a
red fog before the black expansion...
Check out my graphic on this web page...
http://www.wideners.com/22.jpg No, I didn't make the shot at 250 yards, but I
set up the shot and helped him make it. (Rem 700-V .22-250 with a Nosler 40g
bullet and Varget powder) Velocity was over 4000 fps, but recoil moves the
crosshairs before impact.
We used this target:
http://www.wideners.com/target.jpg
The shooter fired a group at 250 yards, and then taped a dime on the group
where he thought the next shot would go... Yep, center! We spent $5 or so
trying to get a 5 shot group inside the dime. Never did get one. I'd love to
see a dime with a 5 shot group.
In article <66rb49$c...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, john...@ix.netcom.com says...
#
#I have shot a few crows (more than a dozen, less than a hundred) with
#rifles of various calibers, from the .177 pellet rifle to the .30-'06.
#They ALL work, as long as you stay within the caliber's limitations.
#
# Yep I cut out a bunch of stuff to save bandwidth... HMD
Vvmfuno
# Hmmm...I wonder how my 125 gr .30 cal Nosler BTs squiting out of my .300 Win
Mag will do to a crow. Muzzle velocity is near 3,500 fps, and ># the bullet's
Sounds like somefolks like the sheer joy of killing. Holy Jesus. Glad I am not
a crow. This guy ever try sexual intercourse?
Beats the hell out of blasting crows with a .300 Magnum!
Fluid
Someone wrote:
# I haven't seen the .243 55 grain Ballistic Tip....Does it really have a higher
# BC than the .223 version? I thought that the BC of the longer,
# skinnier bullet would be higher than the shorter, fatter bullet at the
# same weight..
From the Nosler Manual:
.224/55-grain BTip = .267 BC
.243/55-grain BTip = .276 BC
Just goes to prove that "common knowledge" is a dangerous thing if we
are to be accurate. I'd have thought the same thing, but Nosler says
differently. Since you can push the 6mm bullet out of a .243, etc.
considerably faster than from any .220 Swift or .22-250, the .243/55
will perform better as far as downrange ballistics is concerned.
Jay T
David Richards
In article <679os4$o...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, Vvmfuno <vvm...@aol.com> wrote:
## Hmmm...I wonder how my 125 gr .30 cal Nosler BTs squiting out of my .300 Win
#Mag will do to a crow. Muzzle velocity is near 3,500 fps, and ># the bullet's
#BC is darned good.
#
#Sounds like somefolks like the sheer joy of killing. Holy Jesus. Glad I am not
#a crow. This guy ever try sexual intercourse?
Or in the case of farmers, for the sheer joy of reducing the crow population.
# Beats the hell out of blasting crows with a .300 Magnum!
#
Gryffin
In article <679os4$o...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, vvm...@aol.com (Vvmfuno) wrote:
#> # Hmmm...I wonder how my 125 gr .30 cal Nosler BTs squiting out of my
.300 Win
#> Mag will do to a crow. Muzzle velocity is near 3,500 fps, and ># the
bullet's
#> BC is darned good.
#>
#> Sounds like somefolks like the sheer joy of killing. Holy Jesus. Glad
I am not
#> a crow.
I dunno if it's a love of killing, or a dislike of cleaning up. Shooting
crows with a .300 Magnum would sorta turn 'em into instant mulch. Nothing
left to clean up. So maybe he's just lazy ;{>
--
Gryffin
gry...@gryffnet.com
"Never attribute to malice that which can
be adequately be explained by stupidity."
RiverRat
Vvmfuno wrote:
#
# Mag will do to a crow. Muzzle velocity is near 3,500 fps, and ># the bullet's
# BC is darned good.
#
# Sounds like somefolks like the sheer joy of killing. Holy Jesus. Glad I am not
#
Yeah, it does.... but we don't have to get the crow's permission!
Fluid
Someone wrote:
#
# ...Glad I am not a crow. This guy ever try sexual intercourse? Beats
# the hell out of blasting crows with a .300 Magnum!
Don't knock it if you haven't tried it!! %^)
Jay T
John Clifford
# #Sounds like somefolks like the sheer joy of killing. Holy Jesus. Glad I
am not
# #a crow. This guy ever try sexual intercourse?
##
# # Beats the hell out of blasting crows with a .300 Magnum!
That's why there's a day, and a night. Shoot all the crows you can during
the day, and... reload at night?
cowboyza
.223 is a bit of overkill and the bullet travel would make me mad since it
could hurt somebody a mile or so down the road, please be responsible when
you eliminate nuisance animals. I'd use a 22 LR with a scope if a rifle is
in order , or a shotgun, but not a high powered cartridge
Happy Trails to you,
Until We Meet Again
Fluid
Someone wrote:
#
# .223 is a bit of overkill and the bullet travel would make me mad since it
# could hurt somebody a mile or so down the road, please be responsible when
# you eliminate nuisance animals. I'd use a 22 LR with a scope if a rifle is
# in order , or a shotgun, but not a high powered cartridge
You'd use a high powered cartridge if you hunted crows at ranges over
150 yards, as many do. The .223 is hardly "overkill" at these ranges.
The fact that a .22RF doesn't "hurt" someone over a mile away is hardly
a recommendation. ANY cartridge, rifle, pistol or shotgun, can injure
the innocent IF the shooter is irresponsible in insuring a safe area for
bullet overtravel. An unsafe shooter is just as dangerous with a .22RF
or a shotgun as he is with a .223. The only difference is the location
of the spent bullet's eliptical-shaped impact zone.
As varmint hunters we need to focus on the safety of the act, not on the
equipment used. I've shot ravens with a bow and arrow, but even that
weapon could have injured someone behind the target if I had not been
paying attention to the overtravel area. The above poster put it
perfectly: "please be responsible when you eliminate nuisance animals".
Jay T
KMiddle532
#
##.223 is a bit of overkill and the bullet travel would make me mad since it
##could hurt somebody a mile or so down the road, please be responsible when
##you eliminate nuisance animals. I'd use a 22 LR with a scope if a rifle is
##in order , or a shotgun, but not a high powered cartridge
You must live in the"land of retarded crows", the rest of us can't get in
.22Lr. range of them, and around here, the .223 is pushed to it's limit,
personally, I don't take shots that don't have a sound backstop, and if you've
ever read the warnings on a box of .22Lr.
you would know that the range is stated at 1 1/2 miles.
KM in NC
TANKIE
I came out of work (in suburban setting) Wensday and had one of those ugly SOBs
crowing mockingly at me from on top of a light pole. Easily under 25 yards.
They are extremely plentiful and un afraid of man in Virginia. I`ve heard of
one being shot from a car with a 12 guage passing by the crow eating a road
kill. However, in areas where guns are fired they are no where to be seen.
Jonathan M. Spencer
In article <67rcpi$3...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, cowboyza
<cowb...@worldnet.att.net> writes
#.223 is a bit of overkill and the bullet travel would make me mad since it
#could hurt somebody a mile or so down the road, please be responsible when
#you eliminate nuisance animals. I'd use a 22 LR with a scope if a rifle is
#in order , or a shotgun, but not a high powered cartridge
A 22LR simply does not have the range to hit small targets like crows at
200-250 yards. The 223 has that range and, with soft point bullets, the
bullet breaks up on impact with the crow or the earth if you miss. The
22LR is more likely to rocochet, under these circumstances, than the
high velocity calibres.
I suspect you think we're talking about shooting crows whilst they are
in the air? We're not. And I would strongly urge people not to shoot
.22LRs into the air either.
--Jonathan
Jonathan Spencer -- forensic firearms examiner
Keith Borer Consultants
Mountjoy Research Centre, Durham, England, DH1 3UR
tel: +44 191 386 6107 fax: +44 191 383 0686