Unhappy with Jeff Bartlett at GIbrass.com
Amy Lewis
GIBrass.com. I spoke with Jeff on the phone to make the order. I understood
that these were to be new and unfired Lake City 72 cases.
I got them today, and it was immediatly clear that they were not. They had
very obviously been fired, all were scratched up, many dented, some
unusable.
So I called Jeff back in Kentucky and asked him about this. His answers were
disappointing. It became clear quite quickly that he thinks he can con a
woman and tell her anything he wants and she will believe it.
I asked him why there are all scratched up and dented, and why they had
carbon burned into the insides if they were new and unfired.
His answer: "Oh, that's just the graphite from the powder that was in them,
and the dents and scratches are from the demilling machinery. You can size
them and you will notice very little resistance at all, so you know they
were not fired."
Well, this was pretty disappointing. I didn't challenge him on the phone, I
wanted to think my response over first. When I did respond I sent him the
following email:
-----------------
Dear Jeff,
I have been shooting for 38 years, and reloading for 5 years. I know what a
fired case looks like, and I know there's no such thing as graphite in
gunpowder, nor does it get burned into the inside of a new and unfired case
like I see with these. Moreover, sizing them, as you suggested, is not going
to tell me anything about them other than that they were sized when they
were decapped.
They are all scratched, discolored, and dented. So let us be quite honest
with each other. They are NOT new cases.
I might be a girl, but I'm not stupid.
I think you should change your website to reflect that they are not new and
unfired cases, because to claim that they are is false advertising and
dishonest.
I am saddened at this Jeff, I had thought we had a decent business
relationship. I hope we can move beyond this and deal with each other in a
more forthright manner.
--
Amy Lewis
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There are many like it but this one is mine...
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Ragnar Danneskjold
news:b5thp7$qp6$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu:
# I am saddened at this Jeff, I had thought we had a decent business
# relationship. I hope we can move beyond this and deal with each other
# in a more forthright manner.
I wouldn't do business with the guy after he lied to me...
Johnny Johnson
# I ordered 2000 new and unfired .30-06 cases from Bartlett Reloaders at
# GIBrass.com. I spoke with Jeff on the phone to make the order. I understood
# that these were to be new and unfired Lake City 72 cases.
[snip]
Good to read in T.P.G that you got it all sorted out and that they were
merely disassembled cases from unfired military loads.
Amy Lewis
have to admit to it. It seems that the black inside the cases is explained
by a tar sealant that the military uses, and all the dents and scratches are
because this brass has not been treated very well since 1972.
I didn't know about the tar sealant, and had never heard of graphite in
powder before, but what I did realize was that the bottoms of the primer
pockets were virgin original brass untouched by any tool and obviously never
saw a primer detonation.
So I emailed an apology to Jeff Bartlett and have to admit to having been an
idiot on here as well.
<sigh>
Amy Lewis
--
markie
"Amy Lewis" <amyl...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:b5thp7$qp6$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# I asked him why there are all scratched up and dented, and why they had
# carbon burned into the insides if they were new and unfired.
#
# His answer: "Oh, that's just the graphite from the powder that was in
them,
# and the dents and scratches are from the demilling machinery.
I buy brand new cases from Remington & Winchester, they are frequently
dented, esp. around the mouth area. Even new cases get dented in shipping
and handling.
Rusty Shackleford
<amyl...@pacbell.net> wrote:
#I have been shooting for 38 years, and reloading for 5 years. I know what a
#fired case looks like, and I know there's no such thing as graphite in
#gunpowder,
Amy;
Uncoated gunpowder is typically yellow in color, and the black color
we all are used to is in fact the graphite coating put on by the
manufacturer to make the power flow better and control the burn rate.
Gpery
#gunpowder, nor doe
Sorry Amy there is graphite in gunpowder. However from your description of the
cases having "burned into the inside of the case" sounds like these cases were
indeed fired.
Michael Adams
sealant. I use some finger nail polish remover to get that sealant from the
case mouth. I think straight acetone works as well as anything, but would
only use it outside as it is very flammable. I have always had good service
from Jeff Bartlett. I too bought some of those cases and they were similar
to what you received. Not very pretty, but do appear to be new.
Michael Adams
Texas
Ken Marsh
Amy Lewis <amyl...@pacbell.net> wrote:
#Well gee, since posting this I have realized that I was totally wrong and I
#have to admit to it.
I'm glad this was resolved. I have had a few dealings with Mr Bartlett
and always to my satisfaction.
# It seems that the black inside the cases is explained
#by a tar sealant that the military uses, and all the dents and scratches are
#because this brass has not been treated very well since 1972.
A lot that era of of .30-06 ammo was "repacked". Supposedly '72
production was made for ARV BARs and later was repacked in clips for
M1's. Later still it was demilled.
GI brass takes more case prep than anything else I can think of, but
there is nothing safer in an M1 Garand.
Ken.
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Dr JP Hrisoulas
I have been doing business with Mr. Bartlett for geeze 15 plus years, brass,
projectiles, ammo cans, powder and all that and I think that maybe you should
take a second look at the cases. He sells ALOT of pulled down cases, mil-surp
and well, these have a sealant that looks alot like burned powder to the
"untrained eye" (It is a very tar like lacquer used to make the cartridge
watertight).
Now if he told you these were new commercial cases, that is one thing, but
unfired mil-surp cases, well they can get a tad beat up. I have had new
"virgin" cases come in dinged, dented, bashed and tarnished. And believe me,
the "powers that be" do not take any great care (if at all) in handling cases.
They are scrap, that's the way they are dealt with "in the system".
Take a look at the primer pocket bottoms and see if they look fired, that's the
best way.
Like I said before, I have been doing business with him for a long time and if
he said they were unfired, I would believe him.
Hope this helps
JPH
Dr JP Hrisoulas
Metallographer, Lecturer
Author: The Complete Bladesmith
The Master Bladesmith
The Pattern Welded Blade
HCI: Dedicated to seeing a woman dead, rather than alive and legally carrying a
handgun.
COL. NVDoM
http://www.Atar.com
John N. Kessler
Good for you. It takes a lot of courage to readily admit to a mistake.
That cancels out any embarrassment you may have felt over this issue. I
wish we could all admit to our mistakes like you have.
good shooting, JK
Plink
<amyl...@pacbell.net> wrote:
#So I emailed an apology to Jeff Bartlett and have to admit to having been an
#idiot on here as well.
Amy,
We all make mistakes from time to time. I know I've made some doosies.
You're in good company. :)
Mike
richard elliott
you have my respect.
Richard
Johnny Johnson
##and I know there's no such thing as graphite in gunpowder
#
# Sorry Amy there is graphite in gunpowder. However from your description of the
# cases having "burned into the inside of the case" sounds like these cases were
# indeed fired.
Wasn't fired: the "black" was the old sealant used in military rounds
between the case and projectile (aka: "bullet" <g>).
ED ROGERS
arises.
J David Phillips
No sweat. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone has , at some time or
another, jumped to wrong conclusions. The telling point about making
mistakes, is what we do once we realize we have made one. At that point in
time, is when our true character comes to the surface.
That you were 'woman' enough to come back and explain your 'errors', and
admit fault, says loads about what kind of a woman you are. Thanks for
being a credit to our shooting fraternity, and our newsgroup.
--
J. David Phillips
A-1 Pawn & Jewelry
1925 S.E.Hwy 19
Crystal River, Florida, 34429
352-795-2777
flm...@tampabay.rr.com
"Amy Lewis" <amyl...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:b5ul6r$6us$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...