NAA Cap and Ball Carry Gun?
John Sabotta
firearm-related show late Sunday nights (don't know the name) and I heard a
radio ad for North American Firearms. They were talking about a
cap-and-ball revolver they were producing, and they were implying that this
would be a suitable choice as a self-defense carry weapon! They were also
talking about how convenient it was, as (since it's a cap and ball black
powder weapon) you could order it directly from them by mail! Now, I am not
that familiar with black powder shooting, and I don't want to step on
anybody's toes, but is a cap-and-ball pistol really a suitable choice as a
carry gun? This seems bizarre, to say the least. Is NAA serious about
this?
JS
(I realize that people in the "good old days" routinely carried cap and
ball revolvers, but that was then, this is now...I am willing to be
corrected by any knowledgeable black powder shooter, of course.)
Robert Gibson
#> be a suitable self-defense weapon....or is this too bizarre?
Hi John,
A charcoal burning revolver for carry in this day and age? Does seem a
bit strange and anachronistic at first glance....almost weird, right?
However, let's give it some thought and consider some points.
1.- They AREN'T REGULATED in any way, shape or form. **VERY BIG POINT**
2.- With the right powder charge they can be quite accurate at normal
pistol ranges. I have both Colt and Remington repro 44 revolvers
that are very accurate with about 22-23grains of fffg black powder.
A Ruger "Old Army" 44 would be a top choice....nothing more than a
charcoal burning 44 Blackhawk for all intent and purposes.
3.- With modern accessories...Wonder Wads (tm), Spit Ball (tm), etc.
a charcoal burner revolver can be loaded up and stored for a fair
amount of time and be ready for instant use....within reason, of
course. If you carry it around in the rain for several days don't
be too surprised if you pull the trigger and it just goes -POP-
instead of ***BANG***.
4.- Some of the smaller 36 caliber Cap 'n Ball revolvers are, in fact,
quite small and quite easy to conceal.
5.- Wars, battles, skirmishes, and feuds 'n arguments have been fought
and settled using the Cap 'n Ball revolver...it is a known item; it
works quite well with reasonable care and maintenance.
OK let's balance this against one and only downside to the charcoal pistol:
1.- You get only six (6) shots and then you must reload....this can be
a chore and is *much* more time consuming than ejecting spent cases
and sliding in fresh cartridges.
IMHO this is the only drawback to black powder Cap 'n Ball as carry pistol,
reloading is a bit involved and takes some amount of time to accomplish.
Would I want to carry a Cap 'n Ball as my carry pistol? Nope.....not if I
had a choice in the matter and something better was available.
Would I carry a Cap 'n Ball if it was all that was available? Yes, no doubt
about it.
Just my 2-cents worth....YMMV.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
O.___. Mr. Robert C. Gibson
)V O.___. NRA Life Member, elected 12-20-71
/% ( V ,____ O.___. NRA High Power Rifle Expert
/ % o/L ,___--- V "Gun Control is hitting your target"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Glenn E. Meyer
Sabotta) wrote:
# I was just listening to the local talk radio station which carries a
# firearm-related show late Sunday nights (don't know the name) and I heard a
# radio ad for North American Firearms. They were talking about a
# cap-and-ball revolver they were producing, and they were implying that this
# would be a suitable choice as a self-defense carry weapon! They were also
# talking about how convenient it was, as (since it's a cap and ball black
# powder weapon) you could order it directly from them by mail! Now, I am not
# that familiar with black powder shooting, and I don't want to step on
# anybody's toes, but is a cap-and-ball pistol really a suitable choice as a
# carry gun? This seems bizarre, to say the least. Is NAA serious about
# this?
#
It's on their Web page, so it seems to be real!
JeffPMil
I have thought the same thing. Are these regulated or not?
Apparently not since you can own or buy a black powder weapon without FFL.
Can you carry one in TX, without running afoul of the current law?
Is this a replica/curio and ergo exempt?
Intelligent minds want to know...
Be seeing you,
Number 6
Ken Floyd
: . . . is a cap-and-ball pistol really a suitable choice as a
: carry gun? . . .
: JS
I think a black powder pistol would be an excellent carry gun. At the first
sign of trouble you point the thing up in the air and squeeze the trigger.
This will result in billows of thick blue smoke which will provide excellent
cover for you to run away. [This is called the "squid" technique, and is
sure to start turning up in those "Self Defense Tactics" courses.]
Ken Floyd
Livermore, Colorado
Peter H. Proctor
#From: jeff...@aol.com (JeffPMil)
#Subject: Re: NAA Cap and Ball Carry Gun?
#Date: 27 Nov 1995 18:11:55 -0500
#My .02 worth ....
#I have thought the same thing. Are these regulated or not?
#Apparently not since you can own or buy a black powder weapon without FFL.
#Can you carry one in TX, without running afoul of the current law?
#Is this a replica/curio and ergo exempt?
#Intelligent minds want to know...
#Be seeing you,
#Number 6
Texas law exempts everything made before 1899. This includes cartrage
guns, everything. Might even incule full autos ( there were a few before
1899 ). OTOH, it treats cap-and-ball pistols made after that date just
like modern wonder-nines.
Suggestion: look for a S&W safety hammerless "lemon squeezer" with a
serial number below 116,000. You can get one cosmetically-ugly, but in good
working condition for about $150 at a gunshow. Good trigger, weighs about 19
oz. You need to load your own ammo tho ( 146 g HBWC over 12 g. FFFg or
pyridex equivalent is OK-- the original load was about 16 gr. fffg, if memory
serves. ). Also, almost any S&W or colt spur-trigger revolver was made
before 1892. Anything that says Forehand and wadsworth was made before 1891.
I've got a DA model-3 S&W in 44 Russian, made about 1891. 44 Russian is
essentially identical to regular 44 special, long considered one of the best
stopping rounds. The ballistics of pistol rounds has not changed much in 100
years.
PHP
Natural Born Cereal Killer
#I was just listening to the local talk radio station which carries a
#firearm-related show late Sunday nights (don't know the name) and I heard a
#radio ad for North American Firearms. They were talking about a
#cap-and-ball revolver they were producing, and they were implying that this
#would be a suitable choice as a self-defense carry weapon!
I don't care if it's made by elves on enchanted forges and
quenched in virgin yak blood, it's not a suitable carry weapon. I'll
elaborate on that in a moment.
# They were also
#talking about how convenient it was, as (since it's a cap and ball black
#powder weapon) you could order it directly from them by mail!
Funny, when I hear this the first thing I think of is buying a
Gateway 2000 computer. It may be no worse than any other computer, and
in fact seems to be a fairly good machine, but to me "convenience" goes
far beyond ordering over the phone at 3:00am or having all service done
by simply filling out a UPS form. There's a lot more to having a reliable
gun that requires a local 'smith with parts in stock, a working knowledge
of the gun, and some experience with the firearm in question. Just try
getting a fairly common gun like a Remington Model 48 taken care of,
let alone your "mail order BP revolver" to see this point.
Now then, 150 years ago the BP revolver was a great carry gun
because it was the most reliable carry gun and packed the most firepower
available. Today, it's a pathetic choice. Times have changed. You
don't drive a Model A Ford as your daily commute vehicle, why would you
trust your *life* to a gun that is of similar reliability compared to the
modern models easily available?
I own a Ruger Old Army in .45, and it's the best pistol I've
ever owned. Frankly, I think it's one of the best cap-and-ball revolvers
available, and I've done a few modifications myself for increased
reliability and accurracy. I'll put my Old Army up against any other
cap-and-ball revolver out there, but I would *never* consider it a carry gun.
1) it's too damn big. Orson Wells couldn't conceal this thing!
2) when I pull the trigger, 99% of the time I am rewarded with
a loud *BANG* and a convenient smoke screen. That other 1% I get an
enemic "click" or perhaps a "pa-putt!" and have to check for a blocked
barrel, which means removing the cylinder. This is not carry reliability.
3) reloading. I can't use speedloaders, let alone swap magazines.
The best I could do is carry three loaded cylinders, one in the gun and
two on my carry rig. Simple to change -- turn a screw 1/4 turn, pull
out cylinder pin/ramrod, eject cylinder and hope I don't screw up and put
it just a bit over half-cock, grab new cylinder, fumble into position
and work hammer carefully to get all the locks in place, work cylinder
pin, cock and drop once to verify operation. Total time? Maybe ten
seconds if I practice a lot and everything works well. If I screw up?
Back home to the tool bench to unstick the cylinder. Let us not
forget that carrying this rig in a warm car and then walking down the
parking ramp in freezing winter weather is enough to get water
condensation and a mis-fire on wet powder. Primers tend to work
pretty well, but caps aren't so reliable. Then there's a split cap
jamming up the cylinder -- another worry primers don't cause.
4) accurracy. My Old Army is more accurate than I am, when I
do my part right. But I don't measure BP with a scale -- I use a powder
measure. If my new batch of powder is a little finer I'm off target,
let alone what happens if I forget to add the powder. At 25' I don't
suppose this will be a major problem -- if it goes off it's going to
hit center mass, but I rather like my guns to hit what I shoot at, not
just somewhere in the general vicinity.
5) cost. Price an Old Army and you're looking at around $300
for a bare, stock, plain item. They hold their value quite well. For
that kind of money you can get a clean, good, used Smith in .357 with
Pachmayer grips, three-dot sights, etc...
My life isn't worth that 1% mis-fire rate. If it goes "click"
when I'm targeting a deer I'll be annoyed, but I'll go home that night.
If it goes "click" when I'm targeting some goblin intent upon my bodily
harm? Not worth the risk to me or the cost to my bank account and
my loved ones.
I firmly believe the Old Army is the best of the C&B revolvers,
but just as I don't drive a Model A, I don't carry an Old Army if I
have a choice in the matter.
And forget the legal laxity of black powder -- if you have to
use it, I'll bet dollars to donuts that the police won't take a lax
view because you had percussion caps instead of primers, and I doubt
the District Attorney will either.
--
* Dan Sorenson, DoD 1066, Cereal Killer, z1...@exnet.iastate.edu *
* Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. *
* The town was burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need *
* those sheep anyway. That's our story and we're sticking to it. *
Brad Staff
#Apparently not since you can own or buy a black powder weapon without FFL.
#Can you carry one in TX, without running afoul of the current law?
#Is this a replica/curio and ergo exempt?
From section 46.01of the Texas penal code:
...
(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to
expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy
generated by an explosion or burning substance or any
device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does
not include antique or curio firearms that were
manufactured prior to 1899 and that may have, as an
integral part, a folding knife blade or other
characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter.
...
(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or
adapted to be fired with one hand.
...
It appears that a modern black powder handgun is considered a "handgun" for
the purposes of carry, but ANY handgun manufactured prior to 1899 isn't
considered a "handgun" or a "firearm", legal to carry without a permit!
Are there any shootable antique handguns worth carrying? What do they cost?
Regards,
Brad
Fred Miller
#My .02 worth ....
#
#I have thought the same thing. Are these regulated or not?
#Apparently not since you can own or buy a black powder weapon without FFL.
Not Fed. reg's but there are many State regs. Here in NY, you MUST have
a State "ticket" for it. I often have a .50 cal. Hopkins & Allan Boot Pistol
in my van. Sure it's a single shot, but that's often all that's required,
and second, a .495 patched soft lead ball with 55 gr. of Black Canyon
behind it is a formidable fast moveing object that I wouldn't want to
be hit with.<G>
Fred
**************************************************
* Fred A. Miller fmi...@lightlink.com FidoNet: 1:260/750.0 *
**************************************************
Peter H. Proctor
snip... Texas law
#It appears that a modern black powder handgun is considered a "handgun" for
#the purposes of carry, but ANY handgun manufactured prior to 1899 isn't
#considered a "handgun" or a "firearm", legal to carry without a permit!
#Are there any shootable antique handguns worth carrying? What do they cost?
#Regards,
#Brad
Some possibilities;
1) Just about any old spur trigger revolver is an antique. Most companies
stopped making these by 1892.
2) Any S&W safetty hammerless "lemon squeezer" in 38 S&W with a serial number
under 116000.
3) Any Iver Johnson which opens with a lever on the left. BTW. IJ moved the
patent dates to the butt in 1900 ( quick screen ).
4) Forehand and Wadsworth change their name to "Forehand Arms Co. " in 1890.
Stopped manufacturing in 1903 or so...
Expect to pay $150-200 for a shootable gun. Less if you look around...
5) Centruy international sells Nagants made before 1899 mail order (!) for
less than $100. 1-800-644-8164. Ammo may be a problem. This afternoon,
I'm going to see if 32 S&W longs work ( as I have been told ). Most likely
Nagant ammon will become available sometime, Right now, everyone seems to be
sold out. Bertram makes Boxer cases.
For the really adventurous:
Old S&W model 3's in 44 russian or 44/40 cost about $400-500 in shootable
shape. These cartriges are about as good as 44 special, one of the best
rounds for self-defense.
PHP
Joe Clark
Natural Born Cereal Killer <z1...@exnet.iastate.edu> wrote:
#jo...@aa.net (John Sabotta) writes:
#
##I was just listening to the local talk radio station which carries a
##firearm-related show late Sunday nights (don't know the name) and I heard a
##radio ad for North American Firearms. They were talking about a
##cap-and-ball revolver they were producing, and they were implying that this
##would be a suitable choice as a self-defense carry weapon!
#
# I don't care if it's made by elves on enchanted forges and
#quenched in virgin yak blood, it's not a suitable carry weapon. .....
Don't you have an opinion?
# Now then, 150 years ago the BP revolver was a great carry gun .....
#available. Today, it's a pathetic choice. Times have changed. ......
Rabid dogs and muggers are that much tougher today?
# 1) it's too damn big. Orson Wells couldn't conceal this thing!
Is the North American Firearms C&B the size of a Walker?
# 2) when I pull the trigger, 99% of the time I am rewarded .....
#barrel, which means removing the cylinder. This is not carry reliability.
Can you name an auto thats 100%?
# 3) reloading. I can't use speedloaders, let alone swap magazines.
When taking on an army, just call for air cover!
#condensation and a mis-fire on wet powder. Primers tend to work
#pretty well, but caps aren't so reliable. Then there's a split cap
#jamming up the cylinder -- another worry primers don't cause.
The American Revolution was almost called off due to rain, but they
had flintlocks. With the advent of caplocks and revolvers, the American
Civil War really should have never been started.
# 4) accurracy. My Old Army is more accurate than I am, ........
#hit center mass, but I rather like my guns to hit what I shoot at, not
#just somewhere in the general vicinity.
Maybe the target would hold still for a cartridge gun?
# 5) cost. Price an Old Army and you're looking at around $300
Price of a Barret 50 BMG?
# And forget the legal laxity of black powder -- if you have to
Could I retain you as my attorney?
I may not be as opinionated as you, but I'm certian that the laws of
physics and physiology haven't changed much lately, reliability has
gotton no worse, and there are jurisdictions which are less restrictive
and punitive of non-firearms than of a "Dirty Harry".
C&B might not be that bad a compromise if the only other legal choice is
roll over and play dead.
Jwrawles
#Are there any shootable antique handguns worth carrying? What do they
For under $400, there are quite a few models that can be found, but
virtually none of these are in potent big bore chamberings. You can
readily find:
Colt M1889 Navy (.38) ALL are pre-1899
Colt New Police .32 (serial number below 4,200)
Colt New Pocket Model (ser. # below 10,500)
Colt "New Army" or "New Navy" .38s and .41s (ser. # below 91,200)
Smith and Wesson .32s and .38s. (Spur trigger or modern guarded trigger,
single action of double action--LOTS of variations, and fairly common.
Note: Some of these are post-1898. Check applicable references before
buying.
Various copies of the .32 and .38 S&Ws, made by Iver Johnson, Warner Arms,
H&R, Forehand and Wadsworth, et cetera. (Again, some are post-1898, and
are tougher to research for dates than S&Ws.)
Under $800 is a much bigger list. All of the above listed models, plus:
Various Smith and Wesson D.A big bores. Most of these are chambered in
.44 Russian, which is NOT factory produced (but great if you handload),
plus a few .44-40s, et cetera. Nicer specimens can be expensive, but less
eye appealing "shooters " with nice bore and good mechanical condition are
out there if you take the time to look around...
Colt Model 1878 D.A. .44-40, .45 Colt, etc.
Colt Lightning and Thunderer .38s and .41s (ser. # below 107,500)
If given no price restrictions, the list gets even bigger, and includes
lots of nice bige bores that are suitable for self defense: :-)
Colt Single Action Army (SAA) and Bisely revolvers with serial numbers
between 163,000 and 182,000 (1896 to 1898 production.) Earlier guns have
iron frames rather than steel, and are not generally considered safe to
shoot modern loads.
S&W Model 3 revolvers
S&W New Model 3 revolvers
S&W .45 Schofield revolvers
S&W D.A. First Model, "Favorite", "New Navy", and "Frontier" revolvers
Colt New Service (first year production (1898) only. (Ser. # below 250)
(I've got one in .45 Colt (serial # under 50, in fact) for my "carry"
piece.
It only took me five years to find it... ;-) )
Remington Model 1875 and 1890 Revolvers. (mainly .44-40s)
and many others...
When i ship pre-1899 revolvers, I just ship it straight to the customer's
doorstep, with no Form 4473 or Brady Law hassles. Remember these are not
"firearms" under federal law! However, keep in mind that some local or
State (i.e. Kalifornia) restrictions may apply, but since I am a Idaho
Citizen, I consider that YOUR responsibility. (I can't be expected to
keep track of 50 sets of state laws plus countless city and county laws.)
Jim Rawles, Proprietor The obligatory quote...
Clearwater Trading Co. "A billion he-ah,
c/o P.O. Box 2289 and a billion they-ah...
Orofino, Idaho 83544 And pretty soon you're talking
voice: (208) 476-4440 about REEEEAL money."
e-mail: Jwra...@aol.com - Senator Everett Dirksen
Let me know if you'd like my UPDATED and expanded catalog of
shootable antique guns (primarily pre-1899 production "No FFL"
Mausers and Winchesters), gun accessories (mainly clips and
magazines), ammunition, backpacks, sleeping bags, waterproof
gun/gear cases, and coins. (Due to AOL e-mail length restrictions,
you'll get the catalog in two parts.) You can also now read my new
shareware novel, The Gray Nineties. It is piece of speculative survival
fiction about a socio-economic collapse and its aftermath. Hard copies
are *NOT* available, but you can download a soft copy of the entire
text
free of charge from the web site at:
http://www.eskimo.com/~hmcom/4/db/gn/cover.html
Natural Born Cereal Killer
## I don't care if it's made by elves on enchanted forges and
##quenched in virgin yak blood, it's not a suitable carry weapon. .....
#
#Don't you have an opinion?
I have many. One of them is the value of my life. If I have
to use a carry gun I'm likely not blasting a rattlesnake in the woods.
Rather I'm blasting something that is quite intent upon my bodily harm
to a severe degree. At that moment, I *want* air support, a radio to
call in a fire mission, personal bodyguards consisting of SeALs backing
up Secret Service, and a full suit of plate mail with Kevlar and trauma
plates behind it.
And if wishes were horses beggars would ride. I'm not able to
aquire those resources yet, so I settle with the best my money can buy.
Given the same purchase cost, my money is better spent upon a reliable
gun suitable for daily carry -- and to my mind factory ammunition or
careful reloads in a reliable revolver or semi-auto beats any C&B gun.
#Rabid dogs and muggers are that much tougher today?
Yes -- they don't run away when the gun goes "click," and
appear to be far less likely to let you drop your wallet and run home
to the shop so you can clear that jammed primer. It's not the threat
I worry about -- it's the consequences if I *need* a gun and it fails.
## 1) it's too damn big. Orson Wells couldn't conceal this thing!
#Is the North American Firearms C&B the size of a Walker?
Not quite -- note I was using my own Old Army as the basis
for my position. Your NAF might be 100% reliable, aim itself, and
curl up at the foot of your bed each night keeping watch, but in my
experience such C&B revolvers are the rare exception, not the rule.
#Can you name an auto thats 100%?
No. Can you name one that requires a tool bench, hemostats,
jewlers screwdrivers, and fifteen minutes to clear a typical jam?
#When taking on an army, just call for air cover!
I've got five shots, so anything over two is an army if
I'm carrying a C&B. Do I call in air cover with the CB radio or
can I use a cell phone? My luck I'd have to call collect from
a pay phone and they won't accept the charges. I like to operate
from this assumption -- I do so hate being disappointed when my
plans fall apart due to things I cannot control.
#The American Revolution was almost called off due to rain, but they
#had flintlocks. With the advent of caplocks and revolvers, the American
#Civil War really should have never been started.
I do note the number of battles fought in rain, snow, and
otherwise inclement weather were rather few for either war. Muggers,
dogs, and armies are much less considerate these days and will insist
upon attacking without much thought to weather conditions or my
discomfort. Funny how that has come about as weapons became better
suited to functioning in all conditions.
#Maybe the target would hold still for a cartridge gun?
Maybe the target will let me fire a few test rounds so I
know where it's hitting with today's load?
## 5) cost. Price an Old Army and you're looking at around $300
#Price of a Barret 50 BMG?
If you can carry one concealed or in a holster I submit that
the Barret is a trivial expense compared to your food budget.
## And forget the legal laxity of black powder -- if you have to
#Could I retain you as my attorney?
Would you want to? If you shoot somebody with a BP gun it
is no less a shooting than any other, and you can expect the law
enforcement types to take an interest. "Golly gee, Occifer Bob, he
done plugged him with a black powder pistol! Guess it's not as much
of a shooting, is it?" "Hyuk, I guess not Deppity Doug, let's write
him up a citation for littering and go find a donut." What do you
propose a person do, answer to a justified shooting with only himself
as counsel? If you won't buy a house without an attorney, why would
you defend yourself without one handy?
#I may not be as opinionated as you, but I'm certian that the laws of
#physics and physiology haven't changed much lately, reliability has
#gotton no worse, and there are jurisdictions which are less restrictive
#and punitive of non-firearms than of a "Dirty Harry".
You likely aren't as opinionated, the laws of physics haven't
changed, and there may be jurisdictions that just shrug and give you
a "community service" medal if you're in a justified shoot.
I don't live in that jurisdiction, and I don't expect to ever
be in one. I fully intend to plan for the worst. After all, that is
why one carries a weapon in the first place.
#C&B might not be that bad a compromise if the only other legal choice is
#roll over and play dead.
Point is, that is not the only other legal choice, and I don't
believe "compromise" is a proper way to negotiate my choice of body
temperature and residence.
Carrying a firearm is a deadly serious responsibility, and should
be taken as such. Given the consequences of failure in any aspect, I
do not see any reason to accept less than the best I can get.
And that's why I'm such an opinionated jerk on this issue.
RGI...@ua1vm.ua.edu
rec.gunner, who's a threat to cereal plants everywhere, being very negative
and vocal. IMHO he's spent so much time p**sing 'n moaning about all of the
trees that he's missed the overall beauty of the forest. ;-)
A cap 'n ball pistol as a viable carry weapon? Push comes to shove I think
YES, it is quite doable. Four possiblities jump immediately to mind: Colt's
Sheriff's Model 1851 (5" bbl) & 1862 Police (5-1/2" bbl), both in 36 caliber;
Colt's 31 caliber Wells Fargo (4" bbl); and the New Model Pocket Remington
(4" bbl) also in 31 caliber. These are all handy sized cap 'n ball revolvers
that did yeoman duty as "concealed carry" pistols of the last century. They
remain just as deadly now as they were then....they will easily wound or kill
if the skill level of the pistolero is up to the task. Any of the revolvers
will give you at least 5 shots, and the Sheriff's Model is a 6-shooter if my
memory serves me right. They are all available as repro-revolvers at what I
consider to be nominal sums....say between $125 to $200 tops.
Heck, I've seen both 1851 and 1860 Colt 44's with shortened 4" barrels...while
still a bit of a handful and maybe somewhat hard to conceal just think of the
firepower possiblities....6 shots with 44 caliber lead balls. Now that would
would be guarantied to get someone's undivided attention.
I've fired my BP repro-revolvers off 'n on now since about 1962....maybe I've
just been lucky, or maybe I just pay attention to details....but for whatever
reason I've yet to have a missfire. I did have the cylinder on my repro 1858
jam once on a burst cap....I've since solved that by using cap retainers cut
from surgical tubing. I should also mention that all of my BP revolvers have
had broken flat springs replaced at odd intervals over the years...this is a
glitch that rears it's ugly head for most BP revolvers using these old style
springs. Bottom line, do your maintenance and take care of your pistol and
it will give you excellent service.....true for any firearm from any age.
Is the cap and ball a first choice for concealed carry in this day and age?
Of course not....no one in their right mind would say so. OTOH that doesn't
mean that it wouldn't work if you had nothing better to carry.
All the nitpicking 'n harping about modern firearms technology or ultra-pure
BS about calling air strike missions or artillery fire support not withstand-
ing the cap and ball revolver can do the job, even here in the techno-1990's.
It's just not the first choice...or second, or even third...but it will work,
regardless of other opinions on the subject. That's all the original poster
really wanted to know in the first place.
Natural Born Cereal Killer
#This thread has been batted around now for a week or two with one particular
#rec.gunner, who's a threat to cereal plants everywhere, being very negative
#and vocal. IMHO he's spent so much time p**sing 'n moaning about all of the
#trees that he's missed the overall beauty of the forest. ;-)
You may be quite right. I fully admit that I'm an opinionated,
arrogant, cynical, and crotchety old man at heart, which tends to color my
posting style. On the plus side, I'm rarely disappointed. ;-)
[list 'O guns snipped]
#consider to be nominal sums....say between $125 to $200 tops.
That is a very nominal sum, and if one cannot afford more I would
not suggest that they go unarmed and count their pennies. However, I am
still o the opinion that there are quite likely better guns on the market
for the same price, and that one should in this case go for the best they
can afford. Self-defense is just far too important.
#Heck, I've seen both 1851 and 1860 Colt 44's with shortened 4" barrels...while
#still a bit of a handful and maybe somewhat hard to conceal just think of the
#firepower possiblities....6 shots with 44 caliber lead balls. Now that would
#would be guarantied to get someone's undivided attention.
One additional advantage: the unburnt powder will cause a nice
bit of abrasion to the skin, sort of a very mini-shotgun in addition to
a large chunk of noticable lead. I've often wondered if this would not
provode some additional one-shot stop capability due to temporary
blindness in the part of the target? Food for thought. The velocity
would be down, of course, but at typical self-defense ranges this should
not prove to be too great a handicap.
#I've fired my BP repro-revolvers off 'n on now since about 1962....maybe I've
#just been lucky, or maybe I just pay attention to details....but for whatever
#reason I've yet to have a missfire.
You are one of the few I've ever heard of. I can't use my Old
Army as a definative example since I've been playing with it so much and
I may have gone beyond the limits of reliability in one area or another,
The Thompson rifle is much more reliable in terms of consistent ignitions,
and of course I'm including the time I went through a tin of Remington caps,
but in my 20 or so years of BP shooting I recall a few misfires on each gun.
I've not had one on any of my smokeless firearms. Jams, yes, but no misfires.
Given a choice, an important distinction in this argument, I have to go with
the ones that perform more reliability.
Which isn't to say that the BP guns aren't just a blast to play with!
#Is the cap and ball a first choice for concealed carry in this day and age?
#Of course not....no one in their right mind would say so. OTOH that doesn't
#mean that it wouldn't work if you had nothing better to carry.
I don't recall that being under dispute. On the other hand, and
perhaps I'm misinterpreting the original query, I was under the impression
that the question was whether a C&B revolver was a suitable carry weapon.
Given the other options available, I'll stand by my argument that it is not.
Certainly it will do the job, but it isn't my first choice.
Food for Thought: I find myself in a quandary here. I fully admit
to being a stingy sort of guy most of the time. I spent weeks scanning the
newspaper before I bought a $300 used car to commute with. On the other
hand, I wouldn't recommend this as a strategy for my wife or a friend.
Yet here I am adding my electro-tuppence to an argument concerning a
defensive weapon! While I know the readership is quite able to make up
their own mind, I can't shake the thought of some lurker taking my
opinion as gospel, and perhaps doing so with tragic consequences.
During this entire thread I continually reflected upon some
poor guy, back against the wall, pulling a BP revolver and getting an
anemic "pop" for his efforts. Sorry, but I can't quite accept that
sort of consequence for my stingy advice. Thus, I choose to always
err on the side of caution in this sort of discussion, and always
recommend the best one can get.
Perhaps another discussion would be the best carry gun in a
given price range?
Sanford E. Walke IV
: During this entire thread I continually reflected upon some
: poor guy, back against the wall, pulling a BP revolver and getting an
: anemic "pop" for his efforts. Sorry, but I can't quite accept that
: sort of consequence for my stingy advice. Thus, I choose to always
: err on the side of caution in this sort of discussion, and always
: recommend the best one can get.
I think part of this discussion started from the idea of carrying a cap and
ball revolver because it's quasi-legal to do, as opposed to carrying a modern
firearm, which is totally illegal in some localities. It's not a question
of which is better, but which is less likely to get you a felony conviction
if you get found out.
--
Sandy se...@izzy.net
"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out
right ban, picking up every one of them... 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all
in,' I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
--U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), "60 Minutes," February 5, 1995
I don't speak for anyone but myself, and sometimes not even that.