legal shotgun barrel length in US & Canada?
clanross
co-worker is planning a trip to Alaska via the AlCan and would like to take
a shotgun along for family protection/noise making whilst in Griz country.
The shotgun was purchased at a pawn shop and appears to have an 18 inch
barrel, but he wants to make sure it is not confiscated at the Canadian
border by an over-zealous border guard, thereby causing a rash of
unnecessary problems. Any suggestions. Could it be as simple as sticking a
tape measure down the barrel when the action is closed (without a shell in
the chamber)? Thanks in advance for the thoughts
Afterthought: Does anyone have any better ideas than magnum slugs from a 12
ga. for general protection in big bear country? Will this just piss the
bear off, making things uglier?
TIA.
r^3
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Please find out about rec.guns at http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/rec.guns
Doug Owen
clanross wrote:
#
# Greetings. How does one measure the length of a shotgun barrel? A
# co-worker is planning a trip to Alaska via the AlCan and would like to take
# a shotgun along for family protection/noise making whilst in Griz country.
# Could it be as simple as sticking a
# tape measure down the barrel when the action is closed (without a shell in
# the chamber)?
That's close enough to how it's done.
I'm not sure what the minimum barrel length is. When I went up (some
years back) you could get all the info you needed from AAA (the American
Auto Assn, not who you were thinking). I'm not sure they're as
gun-helpful these days.
The rub then was a gun permit, you're not allowed to just tote one about
there (like we don't let foreign folks pack in our country). A hunting
license is usually all it takes, but out of the question here. I'd
check it out first, there was a 'gun permit' for incidental use (I had a
..22 rifle and a couple of bricks), but I nearly started a riot when I
asked for the forms at the border. Was finally sent to the copshop in
the next town (who didn't know what to say except 'it's covered with
your non-resident hunting license'). Other police stations thought the
rangers did it. Never did get it.
Expect to loose the gun at the border if you don't know the rules in
detail.
#
# Afterthought: Does anyone have any better ideas than magnum slugs from a 12
# ga. for general protection in big bear country? Will this just piss the
# bear off, making things uglier?
You mean like 'common sense'? How many tourists a year get eaten, do
you think? The 12 gauge is of more use defending home and hearth back
in Dodge from the 2 legged animals.
As a pacifier for your friends, how about ammo his wife or kids might
stand a chance of using? Maggie slugs can be a bit to handle. If noise
is what you want, it's hard to beat blanks. The bears don't really know
the difference.
As far as the gun goes, when the Alaska folks did a bunch of tests for
bear protection for highway workers they concluded the big belted mags
were maybe a mite better than slugs from a pump gun, sometimes, but
overall, the 12 gauge was the best choice. Neat report, I got it from
the NRA a while after the trip.
Still recommend the .22 and a pile of ammo.
Ken Grubb
# How does one measure the length of a shotgun barrel?
Very carefully. ;^)
# A co-worker is planning a trip to Alaska via the AlCan and would like
# to take a shotgun along for family protection/noise making whilst in
# Griz country. The shotgun was purchased at a pawn shop and appears to
# have an 18 inch barrel, but he wants to make sure it is not confiscated
# at the Canadian border by an over-zealous border guard
Two issues here.
First is US law.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/nfa.htm
"Firearm. (a) A shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches
in length; (b) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified
has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of
less than 18 inches in length;
...
For purpose of this definition, the length of the barrel on a shotgun or
rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle
and the face of the bolt, breech, or breechlock when closed and when the
shotgun or rifle is cocked. The overall length of a weapon made from a
shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon
measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore."
Second issue is Canadian law.
http://travel.state.gov/tips_canada.html
There is a section on weapons.
# Afterthought: Does anyone have any better ideas than magnum slugs
# from a 12 ga. for general protection in big bear country? Will this
# just piss the bear off, making things uglier?
.44 Magnum may draw a bear's attention. 12 gauge slugs and .30-06
bullets tend to deter a bear's interest in you.
--
Just my $1.37
(federal tax $.83, state tax $.31, Internet tax $.21, my $.02)
Ken Grubb
Bellevue, WA
Rod Regier
# Greetings. How does one measure the length of a shotgun barrel? A
# co-worker is planning a trip to Alaska via the AlCan and would like to take
# a shotgun along for family protection/noise making whilst in Griz country.
# The shotgun was purchased at a pawn shop and appears to have an 18 inch
# barrel, but he wants to make sure it is not confiscated at the Canadian
# border by an over-zealous border guard, thereby causing a rash of
# unnecessary problems. Any suggestions. Could it be as simple as sticking a
# tape measure down the barrel when the action is closed (without a shell in
Action empty, cocked. Measured from breech face to crown of barrel.
18.5" for semi-autos in Canada. Your associate won't be able to bring most
"cosmetically challenged" semi-auto shotguns into Canada.
Safe bet is a pump with conventional stock and 18" or longer brl.
If you stick with 18" or longer barrels you'll have less hassles.
The rules are more complicated than that, but most Cdn customs and LEOs
don't understand the exact letter of the rules.
Arco Employee
http://www.state.ak.us/adfg/ ). I will let someone with more experience
answer about barrel length. In general a shotgun with slugs is considered a
suitable bear gun ( but not magic ). Placement of the slug is essential,
and even with a heart and lungs that have been destroyed a brown bear can
continue to come after you for a few minutes. The company I work for only
offers two choices for firearms while in the field, 375 H&H magnum or a pump
action 12 gauge.
Last week an experienced outdoorsman was killed by a single bite to the
head, this was after getting two shots off from a .280 Rem. rifle.
Avoiding them is the best option, but shooting is sometimes your only
option.
Tmm
looksha"at"hotmail.com
"Firearms in Alaska and Canada
State firearms laws and regulations as they relate to hunters in Alaska are
simple and pragmatic. Carrying hunting rifles and shotguns through Canada is
also generally simple.
In Alaska, hunters may generally possess and use firearms with few
restrictions. State law prohibits the following firearms:
Fully automatic firearms
Rifles with a barrel length less than 16 inches
Shotguns with a barrel length under 18 inches and
Rifles or shotguns under 26 inches in total length.
Rifles, shotguns and handguns are legal for hunting in Alaska. Rimfire
cartridges generally may be used only for small game. See the Alaska Hunting
Regulations for details.
Handguns may not be carried concealed except while a person is actually
engaged in lawful hunting, trapping, fishing or other lawful outdoor
activity that “necessarily involves the carrying of a weapon for personal
protection.” This statutory exemption recognizes the necessity for
protecting firearms from rain or extreme cold. Firearms carried in vehicles
must either be in plain sight or, if concealed, out of reach of vehicle
occupants. As a matter of safety, firearms being transported to or from the
field must always be unloaded.
There are firearms restrictions in certain national park units. For current
information about firearms in these areas, contact one of the Alaska Public
Lands Information Centers.
When crossing the border into Canada, remember that you are responsible for
declaring ALL firearms in your possession. Declared rifles and shotguns
generally may be carried through Canada while in transit to Alaska. Handguns
may not be carried into Canada. US citizens may find it helpful to register
firearms with US Customs before traveling through Canada in order to prove
ownership. For additional information on carrying firearms in Canada, write
or call:
Revenue Canada
Customs, Excise, and Taxation
Transportation Division
Ottawa, Ontario
CANADA K1A 0L5
Telephone (613) 993-0534
Note: In the future, Canada will be inaugurating a new set of rules and
regulations dealing with the importing and movement of firearms. If you have
any questions, Canada Customs asks that you call 1-800-731-4000."
clanross wrote in message <7j29qe$4p8$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
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Smokin Joe
until it contacts the breech face. If you see any of the rod sticking out, you're illegal. You might use 18.25" just to
be on the safe side.
Mark Crispin
# A
# co-worker is planning a trip to Alaska via the AlCan and would like to take
# a shotgun along for family protection/noise making whilst in Griz country.
Good idea.
# The shotgun was purchased at a pawn shop and appears to have an 18 inch
# barrel, but he wants to make sure it is not confiscated at the Canadian
# border by an over-zealous border guard, thereby causing a rash of
# unnecessary problems. Any suggestions.
Do you know if the barrel has been shortened to 18", or if it was
manufactured as an 18" barrel? If the latter, you're probably OK; most
likely, the barrel is 18.5" to give you some breathing room (especially if
a gunsmith needs to clean up the muzzle).
If it was shortened to 18", then you had better take it to a gunsmith and
get a professional verdict. The problem with a barrel that is exactly 18"
is that if it measures one micron shorter, it's an sawed-off shotgun
(hence the 18.5"), an NFA firearm in the US and a prohibited firearm in
Canada.
If the gunsmith says it's short, call BATF, tell them that you
inadvertantly purchased an NFA weapon at a pawn shop and you wish to
surrender/dispose of it immediately. You might try asking if it'd be
alright to surrender the illegal barrel and keep the rest of the gun; a
new barrel isn't that much. They'll probably want to see the bill of sale
from the pawn shop.
You may also need to get a lawyer, but IMHO if you contact BATF first,
ask for explict instructions, and follow them to the letter, they'll
accept your claim to be an innocent purchaser. The pawn shop will be in
deep shit though.
I'm certain that you have an 18.5" barrel, and are therefore OK.
# Afterthought: Does anyone have any better ideas than magnum slugs from a 12
# ga. for general protection in big bear country? Will this just piss the
# bear off, making things uglier?
A short-barrel 12 ga with rifled slugs is an appropriate bear gun.
When I'm on my property in Alaska, I use 1 3/8 oz Brenneke slugs in an
18.5" Mossberg 500 pump 12ga, and have ordinary magnum slugs as a backup.
I think that the Brennekes will provide deeper penetration. Some guys
like to alternate their load between slugs and 00 or 000 buck. The buck
will maximize your chance of a hit, but the pellets are really too small.
You do *not* want to fire until the bear is within 25 yards, and of course
not unless he's charging. Most bear charges are bluffs, and the bear will
break off at the last moment. Once you shoot, you've guaranteed that it
will be a fight to the death. Shooting her at 100 yards is going to piss
her off.
So, give the bear as much opportunity as possible to break off; don't
shoot until she's (usually it is a sow with cubs) within range to inflict
a stopping, mortal injury.
At 25 yards, she'll be touching you in one second. You aren't going to be
able to get off more than 1 or possibly 2 rounds before she's on top of
you and even if you stop her the inertia will keep her going. Step aside!
Give more leeway to a black bear than to a griz. It is much less serious
to have a black bear touch you than a griz. So, err on the side of *not*
shooting with a black bear (some bluff charges get to 5 yards). If a
black bear touches you, fight back vigorously -- you'll get beaten up, but
it won't be pleasant for her either and she may decide to leave you alone.
Never surrender to a black bear; a few black bears have treated surrender
as "meal time".
Most black bears are terrified of humans, and will scoot up the nearest
tree, even abandoning their cubs. Black bear sows have whined piteously
from a high tree branch as humans grab their cubs, but don't come down.
The small matter that humans eat black bears has something to do with
this.
With a griz, err on the side of caution; you do *not* want to risk a griz
touching you. If one does, surrender is the only course of action; a griz
can knock your head off. It's very rare for a griz to eat humans;
usually, it just wants to kill the threat and make sure that it's dead.
A griz will hang around for hours, to see if you move or groan. If a griz
starts to bury you or starts feeding on you, then you have no choice but
to fight, but your chances of living to tell about it are quite small.
Humans don't eat griz. Griz avoid us, but they aren't terrified of us the
way black bears are.
-- Mark --
* RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. *
* Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. *
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
PDC
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Barrel length is measured from muzzle to breech face. Attached compensators,
flash hiders etc. don't count as barrel.
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Russel Brooks
# a shotgun along for family protection/noise making whilst in Griz country.
You better check with Canadian border police. When I drove from
San Jose to Fairbanks via the Alaskan Highway (in a Honda
Civic!) a couple years ago they were particularly looking for
firearms. I don't know if any types are allowed.
cheers... Russ
Arco Employee
Tmm
looksha"at"hotmail.com
clanross wrote in message <7j29qe$4p8$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
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Barry E. Henley
470 mm
Barry
--
b...@mindspring.com
Barry E. Henley - Acworth, GA - USA
http://www.mindspring.com/~beh
Michael E. Stora
the muzzle inside the barrel with the action closed and cocked (if it makes
a difference). Make is 18 1/4 to allow for error, repairs, etc. Side step
the Candada issue by shipping the gun by common carrier (UPS, FedEx, etc -
not US Mail) to Alaska first. Make sure you adresses it to yourself in
care of the someone there, and it is all legal.
Mike