"Tactical" Scopes for AR-15
Steve Caupp
for some help on this subject.
First, and it may not be that important, I was under the impression
that "tactical" simply referred to a small, low powered scope that
allowed quick acquisition of a target. I've seen posts and articles
that make me think not (the issue of price entered into one
discussion). So just what does "tactical" mean in terms of scopes, or
is it one of those terms (like magnum) that gets bandied about by the
marketing types at their whim?
Is there really an advantage to using a low powered scope on a rifle
of this sort?
If so, here's what I think would be the criteria ("discuss", as they
say):
Small size
Long eye relief
Low power (4x?)
Red dot (of 3.5 MOA)
What about the low priced scopes like the Tasco and BSA scopes below
$100?
How do I mount this bad boy on an A-2 upper?
Are there advantages or disadvantages to using the "see through"
mounts that allow use of the iron sights as well (assuming that's even
possible with an A-2 upper)?
Steve Caupp
sca...@one.net
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Spike43
#for some help on this subject.
#
#First, and it may not be that important, I was under the impression
#that "tactical" simply referred to a small, low powered scope that
#allowed quick acquisition of a target. I've seen posts and articles
#that make me think not (the issue of price entered into one
#discussion). So just what does "tactical" mean in terms of scopes, or
#is it one of those terms (like magnum) that gets bandied about by the
#marketing types at their whim?
#
#Is there really an advantage to using a low powered scope on a rifle
#of this sort?
#
#If so, here's what I think would be the criteria ("discuss", as they
#say):
#
#Small size
#
#Long eye relief
#
#Low power (4x?)
#
#Red dot (of 3.5 MOA)
#
#What about the low priced scopes like the Tasco and BSA scopes below
#$100?
#
#How do I mount this bad boy on an A-2 upper?
#
#Are there advantages or disadvantages to using the "see through"
#mounts that allow use of the iron sights as well (assuming that's even
#possible with an A-2 upper)?
#Steve Caupp
Steve,
Yes, the term "Tactical" means: "Our marketing boys want to sell a lot of
these", and usually means the product is finished in black.
Your AR scope needs to be tailored to whatever the main use of your rifle is.
If you're using it for seriously long-range target, varmit, or sniping type
shooting, you might well want something like a 4-12x, possibly with a
rangefinder/drop compensator.
On the other hand, if you envision it more for plinking and/or defensive use,
you might want a 'red dot'. If you prefer a std scope, certianly something low
powered like a 1.5-4x or a fixed 2.5x
I have one of each. An Aimpoint on my CAR, and a Leopold 2.5-7x on my AR. If I
had to chose one for the most all around use, it would be the Aimpoint,
(especially if I was concerned about defensive use), otherwise a low-power
variable.
Spike
NRA, GOA, SAF, MCRGO, SCOPE
Democrats: The party of Spin, Posturing, Demonization, Fear Mongering, Racial
Division & Class Warfare.
Givemelunar
insight,traing,abitility and scopes more of enhancement, also such as
collapsable shoulder staock.. more towards "assault" , or in competition as
"open" vs. stockgun or factorybase .......could be and have been wrong
and way off base.....:)
Jerry Houston
news:9mtn3n$8ro$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
: ... So just what does "tactical" mean in terms of scopes, or
: is it one of those terms (like magnum) that gets bandied about by the
: marketing types at their whim?
Probably means about as much as "ballistic" does when applied to a piece of
nylon cloth. It's a buzz-word, calculated to manipulate us into getting
more excited about the product being offered.
"Tactics" is the science of applying military forces in a battle, and moving
them around during an engagement. It's frequently used to describe methods
used to gain an advantage of some kind, even when the confrontation is not
military, such as during an intense business meeting.
As an adjective, "tactical" <whatever> would of course be used to specify a
particular kind of <whatever>, as opposed to any other kind. The classic
example is tactical nuclear weapons as opposed to strategic nuclear weapons.
Any way you look at it, unless that 'scope lets you deploy and apply
combatants differently than some other kind of 'scope would (maybe a
strategic 'scope?), it ain't hardly tactical.
But the word conjures up images of a skirmish or firefight, quickens the
pulse a little, and that's what the advertiser wants. In essence, it means
whatever you, or anyone else, think it means. If it sells 'scopes, it's
done its job.
Jerry in Seattle
Frank
You can get a lock on handle scope mount at a reasonable price from
http://www.gunkits.com/ and they fit all standard AR15's. The best
looking scope on the rifle is on in black matte non-reflective
finish..It also allows for see through to sights...The power ??
What fits you best...I use a four power cross hair at 100 yds...
Frank....
> ...
Plink
#Is there really an advantage to using a low powered scope on a rifle
#of this sort?
It sure helps those of us with "tired eyes" get on target faster.
Being able to shoot faster and get out of a situation faster qualifies
it as "tactical" in my book.
#What about the low priced scopes like the Tasco and BSA scopes below
#$100?
I have one of each. Neither mounted on an AR-15 though. The Tasco
seems of higher quality and has lived its life mounted on a shotgun
that gets a steady diet of slugs and full power buck. The mounting
bolts are soft and stretched, needing replacement. The local gun shop
provided a set that is much stronger and I've had no problems
otherwise. The zero never drifts, even under the high recoil.
The BSA is mounted on a gentle recoiling Marlin Camp Carbine and it's
really a nice unit. Very accurate and light. If I did it over, I'd
have used the Tasco on it though. It's just a better unit overall.
#How do I mount this bad boy on an A-2 upper?
They fit standard Weaver rails. Just use the mounting base of your
choice. There are many to choose from.
#Are there advantages or disadvantages to using the "see through"
#mounts that allow use of the iron sights as well (assuming that's even
#possible with an A-2 upper)?
Advantage: if your battery dies, or the sight stops functioning for
whatever purpose, you can use your iron sights.
Disadvantage: It raises the sight even higher. Often to the point
where it's impossible to get a good cheek to stock weld.
I like the option, but have yet to find a setup that works for me. Let
us know what you try and how it works out. :)
Mike
R.M.R.
#First, and it may not be that important,I was under the impression that
"tactical" simply referred to a small, low powered scope that allowed
quick acquisition of a target. I've seen posts and articles that make me
think not (the issue of price entered into one discussion). So just what
does "tactical" mean in terms of scopes, or is it one of those terms
(like magnum) that gets bandied about by the marketing types at their
whim?
tac·ti·cal (tkt-kl)
adj.
relating to, or using tactics.
relating to, used in, or involving military or naval operations that are
smaller, closer to base.
First what do you consider a tactical rifle?I'm sure many types of
rifles other then ARs have been used.I'm sure someone can give you a
better definition but I see optics in three categories1,Target,
2,Hunting,and 3,Tactical.
What I consider tactical on my 16" Bushmaster is a Leupold/Gilmore 35mm
w/4 minute dot.A longer barrel or different rifle could change that.
-------------------------------------------------------------
#What about the low priced scopes like the Tasco and BSA scopes below
$100?
------------------------------------------------------------
That's up to you and your wallet,I've killed a lot of cans with cheaper
scopes that cost less then that however I wouldn't use one if the can
shot back however I have heard good things about the BSA line but never
tried one.
------------------------------------------------------------
#How do I mount this bad boy on an A-2 upper?
-------------------------------------------------------------
With a A.R.M.S. #2 Mount see thru.
http://www.armsmounts.com/list.html
The worst thing you could do to an expensive or cheaper scope/sight is
put it on a cheap mount.
-------------------------------------------------------------
#Are there advantages or disadvantages to using the "see through" mounts
that allow use of the iron sights as well (assuming that's even possible
with an A-2 upper)?
-------------------------------------------------------------
That's kind of self explanatory wouldn't you say.What if your glass
breaks.Even the cheapest mounts I've seen are see thru.That's the way
they are basically made just some are better made (fit and finish) then
others.You'll notice that in the different price ranges,as I said Don't
Go Cheap
As far as the word magnum goes pretty much the magnums I've seen are
just that,As in a large bottle of liquor or wine.Larger then normal as
in .22lr/.22magnum 38special/.357 .44/.44 magnum and so on.Then again
before the.22 mag came out a .22 long could of been call a magnum
compared to a .22 short if the word was used much back then,if at all.
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum)
ken_...@bellsouth.net
#discussion). So just what does "tactical" mean in terms of scopes, or
#is it one of those terms (like magnum) that gets bandied about by the
#marketing types at their whim?
Oh, that's easy. A "tactical" scope is one that has those
cool-looking tall windage & elevation knobs, mildot reticle, and a
sunshade at least eight inches long.
Seriously, "tactical" has about lost all meaning. If you really want
to know what the pros use, ask them. I'll bet it is a pricey brand of
optic, like Leupold, Zeiss, S&B, etc.
For us backyard plinker types, something a little more affordable is
fine.
#Is there really an advantage to using a low powered scope on a rifle
#of this sort?
In my opinion, a standard AR-15 would benefit from the addition of a
light, small, unobtrusive, low-mag, tough scope.
Handy enough for quick use but not big enough to get in your way or
weigh the rifle down.
#If so, here's what I think would be the criteria ("discuss", as they
#say): Small size long eye relief Low power (4x?) Red dot (of 3.5 MOA)
That is about in the ballpark for my 'opinion' on what is proper for a
non-flattop AR or other fairly light military rifle. I have a Tasco
PDP5 red dot sight mounted on a see-through carry handle mount.
#What about the low priced scopes like the Tasco and BSA scopes below
#$100?
Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't put a sub-$100 *scope* on an
AR-15, especially not any sort of variable power, and most certainly
not one made by the bottom feeders of the industry. A fixed-power,
compact Burris, Nikon, Weaver, or Leupold would be what I'd look at.
Red dots, I think, are a different story. I have had good luck -- so
far -- with the inexpensive Tasco Pro-point sights, the PDP5 and
PDP111. I bought each for less than $50.
#How do I mount this bad boy on an A-2 upper?
A good-quality steel carry handle mount, preferably see-through. I
like to have a backup in case something happens to my optic, so I like
to be able to see my iron sights. There is no significant downside to
using a see-through mount system as far as I know, as long as we're
not talking about those stupid rings that put your scope up so high
your cheek weld turns into a pect-weld.
Clint McKee
The mass marketers (check any gun rag) have always bastardized terms like,
"Tactical", "National Match", "Target", "Varmint",..................
But these things do mean something. Problem is, most companies who actually
build such things cannot afford full page adds in every gun mag. Or ANY gun
rag, for that matter. You'll need to find the folks that specialize in such
things to get such things. Ask the advance users in your clubs, check the
news groups, go to the Nationals, ....
As for true Tactical scopes, the trend has been, for years, quality red dot
systems.
Take a weekend at our acclaimed website and have a hard look at the Colt
Tactical red dot sight. We offer it standard with a 3 MOA dot, and they are
user changeable up to something like 15 MOA. The *_Real*_ Tactical guys use
them, every day, and even the schools that teach Tac stuff to anybody who
will pay are finding how fragile almost all sighting devices are. They do
NOT find this system so, however. Gosh, the Navy SEALs use them.
Please take a look at this true Tactical sighting device, as well as our
true Tactical offerings at the url below.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the very kind interest!
Clint
Now, with on line ordering!
http://www.fulton-armory.com
http://www.fultonarmory.com
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were our countrymen. -- Samuel Adams, speech at the
Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.
<ken_...@bellsouth.net> wrote
# On 2 Sep 2001 12:35:03 -0400, Steve Caupp <sca...@one.net> wrote:
#
# #discussion). So just what does "tactical" mean in terms of scopes, or
# #is it one of those terms (like magnum) that gets bandied about by the
# #marketing types at their whim?
#
# Oh, that's easy. A "tactical" scope is one that has those
# cool-looking tall windage & elevation knobs, mildot reticle, and a
# sunshade at least eight inches long.
#
# Seriously, "tactical" has about lost all meaning. If you really want
# to know what the pros use, ask them. I'll bet it is a pricey brand of
# optic, like Leupold, Zeiss, S&B, etc.