38-40 vs 44-40
Lowell
nothing but trouble. I just started shooting the 38-40 and it is like a
dream in comparison. Granted, maybe I just got lucky, but I am now
wondering why more people do not shoot the 38-40 instead of the 44-40.
List of problems with the 44-40: The 44-40 is a different diameter from
the .44 Special and .44 Magnum. However, the gun manufacturers and
reloading die people just don't get it. The bore on my Ruger was 0.430"
(probably left over from a .44 Magnum). The throats were undersized.
NO ACCURACY AT ALL. The factory lead bullets were 0.427" and the
factory jacketed bullets were 0.425". When I tried to use oversized
bullets (.44 Magnum) to match the bore, the chambers were too tight for
them to seat. Similar problems with the reloading dies. They were set
up for larger bullets (particularly the neck expander) and the 0.425"
jacketed bullets dropped right through the neck. I had to get another
neck expander and turn it down.
On the other hand, the 38-40 is just one size. The Uberti barrel,
chambers, and throats are all correctly sized. So are the loading dies
and the bullets. Everything works like childs play.
So why aren't more people using the 38-40? If I would have known this
years ago, I would have skipped the 44-40 and went right to the 38-40.
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Dr JP Hrisoulas
Now don't be bad mouthing a cartridge that has been said "has killed more men,
good and bad, and more game than any other center fire cartridge..."
The .44 WCF is a rifle/carbine round, that has been in use since 1873...and as
such, had to evolve a bit...SAAMI didn't exist waaaay back when and well,
"standards" weren't exactly "standard"...
#List of problems with the 44-40: The 44-40 is a different diameter from
#the .44 Special and .44 Magnum. However, the gun manufacturers and
#reloading die people just don't get it. The bore on my Ruger was 0.430"
#(probably left over from a .44 Magnum). The throats were undersized.
#NO ACCURACY AT ALL. The factory lead bullets were 0.427" and the
#factory jacketed bullets were 0.425". When I tried to use oversized
#bullets (.44 Magnum) to match the bore, the chambers were too tight for
#them to seat. Similar problems with the reloading dies. They were set
#up for larger bullets (particularly the neck expander) and the 0.425"
#jacketed bullets dropped right through the neck. I had to get another
#neck expander and turn it down.
#
This was a major fault with the Ruger revolver that reluctantly Ruger finally
acknowledged and fixed at no cost. If you were shooting a "modern made" Colt,
or most any of the Italian Colt copies you would probably not had that problem
as they are all made for the .429" diameter projectile. When you really "need"
the .427" projectile is when you start in with the older guns, like a Colt made
in the early 20th Cent and earlier, and well Winchester rifles had barrel
diameters running from .427" up to .430" or so...(Here's where it pays to slug
the bore...)
If the pistol/revolver/rifle has the problems you mentioned above, it's the
FIREARM that has the problem, NOT the cartridge.
I have shot well over 10K of this round in various rifles/carbines along with
revolvers and pistols and well, it works..
JPH
Dr JP Hrisoulas
Metallographer, Lecturer
Author: The Complete Bladesmith
The Master Bladesmith
The Pattern Welded Blade
HCI: Dedicated to seeing a woman laying dead, rather than alive legally
carrying a handgun.
LtC NVDoM
http://www.Atar.com
ho...@phonet.com
# Hello!!
#
# Now don't be bad mouthing a cartridge that has been said "has killed
# more men, good and bad, and more game than any other center fire
# cartridge..."
#
# The .44 WCF is a rifle/carbine round, that has been in use since
# 1873...and as such, had to evolve a bit...SAAMI didn't exist waaaay
# back when and well, "standards" weren't exactly "standard"...
snip
# This was a major fault with the Ruger revolver that reluctantly
I have heard this rumor before, but it is not true. I had a bad Ruger
44-40. I sent it back to Ruger twice (at my cost). They failed to fix
it twice and the second time sent a very snotty letter saying that they
had checked the gun thoroughly and found that it met all their
manufacturing standards (bore 0.430" and cylinder throats 0.425"). The
letter, from Dick Belieau, said that if I was not happy, I should
contact a "custom" gunsmith. I did and paid him to finish
manufacturing the gun for Ruger. No more Rugers for me.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dr JP Hrisoulas
#I have heard this rumor before, but it is not true. I had a bad Ruger
#44-40. I sent it back to Ruger twice (at my cost). They failed to fix
#it twice and the second time sent a very snotty letter saying that they
#had checked the gun thoroughly and found that it met all their
#manufacturing standards (bore 0.430" and cylinder throats 0.425"). The
#letter, from Dick Belieau, said that if I was not happy, I should
#contact a "custom" gunsmith. I did and paid him to finish
#manufacturing the gun for Ruger. No more Rugers for me.
#
How long ago was this?? Back when the Vacquero (I am thinking this is the mod
you are referring to?? Correct me if I am mistaken..) first hit the "Cowboy"
market alot of us "cowboys" had the same problem and well, we deluged Ruger
with all sorts of letters, calls and all and they (Ruger) said that they'd fix
them (finally) and well, they did... They weren't happy about it but they fixed
them. Every one in my club out here in Las Vegas, (there were three..) that
sent their's in got them back fixed.. sadly it took waaay too long for Ruger to
do it (if you ask me..9 weeks??), but they did it
Anyone with half a brain (which I guess, given Ruger's stance on some things,
they don't employ many...) would know that you most certainly can swage down a
bullet in a revolver chamber throat, but to expect that same bullet, now some
0.005" or so UNDERSIZE to obturate UP that amount in the barrel..well it isn't
going to happen. You'll have that bullet "bouncing down the barrel" and any
sort of accurate shooting will be pretty much out of the question.
Anyway, to me it's the gun's fault...It's the maker's fault for putting out an
inferior product.. Usually Ruger has been pretty good in the past, and sadly,
this is no longer the case.
To bad mouth any chambering cause the gun's not made "right"..that doesn't make
sense...
JPH
Dr JP Hrisoulas
Metallographer, Lecturer
Author: The Complete Bladesmith
The Master Bladesmith
The Pattern Welded Blade
HCI: Dedicated to seeing a woman laying dead, rather than alive legally
carrying a handgun.
LtC NVDoM
http://www.Atar.com
ho...@phonet.com
# # I have heard this rumor before, but it is not true. I had a bad
# # Ruger44-40. I sent it back to Ruger twice (at my cost). They
# # failed to fix it twice and the second time sent a very snotty
# # letter saying that they had checked the gun thoroughly and found
# # that it met all their manufacturing standards (bore 0.430" and
# # cylinder throats 0.425"). The letter, from Dick Belieau, said that
# # if I was not happy, I shouldcontact a "custom" gunsmith. I did and
# # paid him to finishmanufacturing the gun for Ruger. No more Rugers
# # for me.
#
# How long ago was this?? Back when the Vacquero (I am thinking this is
# hit the "Cowboy" market alot of us "cowboys" had the same problem and
# well, we deluged Ruger with all sorts of letters, calls and all and
# they (Ruger) said that they'd fix them (finally) and well, they
# did... They weren't happy about it but they fixed them. Every one in
# my club out here in Las Vegas, (there were three..) that sent their's
# in got them back fixed.. sadly it took waaay too long for Ruger to
# do it (if you ask me..9 weeks??), but they did it
#
# Anyway, to me it's the gun's fault...It's the maker's fault for
# putting out an inferior product.. Usually Ruger has been pretty good
# in the past, and sadly, this is no longer the case.
#
# To bad mouth any chambering cause the gun's not made "right"..that
# doesn't make sense...
It was about 6 - 7 years ago. It is a Ruger Vaquero. Accuracy was
TERRIBLE. It could only shoot 6" to 9" groups from a rest at 50 feet.
The first time I sent it in (a week after I bought it NIB), Ruger took
over 2 months before they returned it. The replaced the cylinder; they
did not ream the old one out. Unfortunately, the new cylinder was just
as bad. It was more variable, but the throats were still undersized
and two of the chambers were too tight to chamber factory ammo, let
alone my handloads. I sent it back a second time. This time they only
kept it about 6 weeks. However, they did absolutely nothing and sent
the snotty letter back with it.
The gunsmith I sent it too reamed out the chambers with a standard 44-
40 reamer (no big throats for .44 Magnum bullets), opened up the
throats and recut the forcing cone. I decided not to spend the money
to get a custom, properly sized barrel. Still, the groups are 1/3 of
what they were when I got it from Ruger.
Yes, I agree it was an inferior product, but I still cannot see gun
manufacturers or die manufacturers putting out a good product that may
see bullets as small as 0.425" (factory half-jacketed, flat-nosed, soft-
points), through 0.427" (most "real" 44-40 bullets) to as large as
0.431" (.44 Mag lead bullets). The advantage of the 38-40 is that
everyone seems to be working on the same page.
Anyway, I am glad that Ruger did take care of you, but they did not
with me and the snotty letter decided it for me. NO MORE RUGERS FOR ME.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
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