Richmond 1997 Bank Robbery
Ken Grubb
http://dsc.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=86&cpi=21141&gid=403&channel=DSC
Watched an FBI Files episode on Discovery Channel a few hours ago. It
followed the FBI and Richmond PD in their efforts to capture two men
(Lafawn Bobbitt and Rashi Jones) who wounded a teller, seriously
wounded a bank guard who was left blind by his injuries, and murdered
another teller (Lori Robinson) in a January 30, 1997 robbery of a
Nationsbank bank in Richmond, Virginia.
Both BGs were captured, convicted, and sentenced to life without
parole. Also nabbed another BG who bought two of the guns--conspiracy
before the fact as he admitted knowing they were gonna rob the bank
when he gave 'em the guns. He also got life without parole.
Guns used by the robbers were a Loricin .380, Intratec TEC-9, and an
AR. In the re-enactment, the guard was armed with a revolver. Could
not tell from the video and the show never specified what he was
carrying.
Bad Guy #1 (BG1) went in brandishing the Loricin .380 and carried the
AR slung muzzle down apparently under a jacket.
Bad Guy #2 (BG2) went in brandishing the TEC-9.
BG1 used the .380 to wound the one teller, kill the other, shoot at
and miss another employee, then his gun malfunctioned. BG1 attempted
to clear it, apparently unsuccessfully. Gun was recovered with a
broken firing pin.
BG2 tried to shoot the guard, but the TEC-9 malfunctioned and BG2
didn't get off a shot. BG2 was apparently trying to clear the weapon
as several unfired 9mm cartridges were recovered at the scene, but no
spent 9mm casings.
#From the still images, the re-enactment, and the video presentation
prepared for the trial, it looked to me as though BG2 was perhaps 6
feet from the guard, and BG1 was upwards of 15 feet away but then
moved up alongside BG2 to perhaps take out the guard himself.
The guard took the opportunity and fled out the front door pushing
along the lone customer towards safety. BG1 switched to the AR and
gave chase. The customer got away with a slight arm wound from the
AR. The guard suffered multiple gunshot wounds from the AR. BG1
returned inside to assist BG2 collecting the money.
In an INCREDIBLY bold move, the wounded guard drew his weapon and
returned inside the bank. He engaged the BGs, but was unable to put
'em down. Unfortunately it did not seem that he even hit 'em. BG1
engaged the guard and again gave chase as the guard again fled
outside. BG1 shot the guard again hitting him in the temple and
permanently blinding the guard.
A passerby heard the shots inside and notified two Richmond PD
officers who were parked about 80 yards away. The two officers took
up positions at the front and rear of the bank.
Police Officer #1 (PO1) went to the wounded guard who told PO1 the
situation inside. PO1 called in an ambulance. BG1 came out shooting
with the AR, and PO1 engaged with his handgun. PO1 emptied the mag,
changed mags, and said he expected 'em to try and flank him to take
him out.
BG1 and BG2 came out the other entrance and engaged PO2. PO2 was
moving to assist PO1, but retreated to cover as BG1 fired on him. PO1
and PO2 linked up and pursued the BGs on foot across a cemetery. BGs
crossed a stone wall and the officers lost 'em.
Couple of very interesting observations.
The BGs were VERY BAD and VERY STUPID men who didn't realize the power
of what they had. Whether one was just crowned Gun Nut of the Year,
or one doesn't know the breech from the bore, an AR commands more
respect than any handgun and no sane person is gonna attempt to draw
against an AR leveled at 'em unless they KNOW they're dead anyway.
The BGs probably coulda snatched the money with no resistance, gotten
away, and they simply woulda been two more armed robbers in the stack.
But they went in blasting right away so they received the focus of the
FBI and local law enforcement as dangerous murderers.
Of the three weapons the BGs wielded, the AR was far and away the most
reliable and most potent, but that's the one they didn't employ going
in the door.
The guard displayed tremendous courage for going back INSIDE the bank,
wounded by multiple .223s, armed only with a handgun. There were bank
employees still inside, and he had no way of knowing whether they
alive or dead.
With perfect 20/20 hindsight from the comfort of my computer, I point
out the guard had a chance inside the bank when both BGs had
malfunctioned weapons that he could have drawn a holstered revolver
and shot two men from about 6 feet away. No uniformed security force
in America today would issue anything less than a .38 Special, and 3
rounds into each one at 6 feet should be adequate for even a novice
marksman to effect a "Stop". He chose instead to flee and get the
customer to safety, and in that he succeeded. I suspect this is a
"training issue" in that I would surmise many uniformed bank security
personnel are trained and cautioned to "give it up" during a
robbery--the liability lawyers mindset. This presumed policy avoiding
confrontation led to his blinding, and I do sincerely hope he got a
very substantial monetary settlement from Nationsbank (now BOA).
A bank guard, probably making between $8 and $15 an hour, isn't likely
to have attended LFI, FAS, Gunsite, etc. on his off time. If he had,
he'd probably still be working and seeing, and there would be two dead
robbers rather than two lifers in federal prison. Not much he could
have done to save the teller. BGs just walked in, started blasting,
and killed her.
Even if they had walked in and started blasting with the AR, if I'd
been a customer carrying inside, I would gone for it. Maybe they kill
me, maybe they don't. Maybe I get one or both of 'em, maybe I don't.
Can't see sitting by and making it easy for 'em. If they do get me,
maybe I get both their spleens, they live with a weakened immune
system, catch AIDS, and suffer a horrible death behind bars.
Ken Grubb
Lower Paxton Twp, PA
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Scott
news:bpaegn$d8l$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# http://tinyurl.com/varg
#
http://dsc.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=86&cpi=21141&gid=403&channel=DSC
<snip>
# If they do get me,
# maybe I get both their spleens, they live with a weakened immune
# system, catch AIDS, and suffer a horrible death behind bars.
Dare to dream!
These creeps should have gotten 30 days in the electric chair.
Scott
old hoodoo
"Ken Grubb" <ken....@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bpaegn$d8l$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
http://dsc.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=86&cpi=21141&gid=403&c
hannel=DSC
> ...
Nick Hull
"Scott" <sco...@localaccess.com> wrote:
# "Ken Grubb" <ken....@comcast.net> wrote in message
# news:bpaegn$d8l$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
# # http://tinyurl.com/varg
# #
# http://dsc.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=86&cpi=21141&gid=403&cha
# nnel=DSC
#
# <snip>
#
# # If they do get me,
# # maybe I get both their spleens, they live with a weakened immune
# # system, catch AIDS, and suffer a horrible death behind bars.
#
# Dare to dream!
#
# These creeps should have gotten 30 days in the electric chair.
They should never have gotten out of the bank alive
--
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
Twangdaddy
Hell, jaywalkers and people with too many parking tickets have gotten the death
penalty in Texas! What's yer point? ;-)
Personally, what I wanna see are some of them Enron sumbitches not just hung,
but I wanna see their heads on sticks put up around the Capitol lawn in
Washington, DC along with a few DC politico heads to go with'em! - SBW
FigrSk8te
#
God Bless Texas!
Sounds like the cops needed some more training as well.
BTMO
"Twangdaddy" <> wrote
# Personally, what I wanna see are some of them Enron sumbitches not just
hung,
# but I wanna see their heads on sticks put up around the Capitol lawn in
# Washington, DC along with a few DC politico heads to go with'em! - SBW
You paint an interesting mental picture...
:-)
Jon Oblad
[...]
# If they do get me,
# maybe I get both their spleens, they live with a weakened immune
# system, catch AIDS, and suffer a horrible death behind bars.
#
# Ken Grubb
You bring up an interesting point concerning self defense gun use.
Sometimes people will call an attempted SDGU a failure if the defender
is killed. While less fortunate, it cannot be considered a failure if
the aggressor is also killed, or sufficiently wounded such that it
leads to their arrest. The defender did not sucessfully defend
themselves, but if they have defended the aggressors next potential
victim. Or victims.
- Jon Oblad
Ken Grubb
# You bring up an interesting point concerning self defense gun
# use. Sometimes people will call an attempted SDGU a failure if
# the defender is killed. While less fortunate, it cannot be
# considered a failure if the aggressor is also killed, or
# sufficiently wounded such that it leads to their arrest.
The SWAT standard for an armed encounter is said to be: If anyone dies
[be they police, bystander, or perpetrator] then something, somewhere,
on some level has gone wrong.
This is an admirable goal, but as I'm not a police officer, much less
SWAT, I suppose I adhere to a modified SWAT standard: If an innocent
person (private citizen, police officer, security guard, etc.) dies,
then something, somewhere, on some level has gone wrong.
Whenever an innocent person dies because of the criminal actions of
another, I consider it a failure. That said, the failure is mitigated
somewhat if one or more of the criminal perpetrators is killed in the
encounter--and mitigated to a greater extent if one or more innocents
are saved. Life for a life would give me some solace, but it's not
what I would strive to a achieve.
I guess it's all semantics, but I do indeed get what you are saying.
# The defender did not successfully defend themselves
Sometimes there just isn't anything more one can do. Sometimes the
odds are insurmountable. I'm reminded an incident in which a police
officer was killed during a routine traffic stop for a minor
infraction. The officer was wearing a vest, was armed with a .357
Magnum, and he got off 5 good hits into his assailant's chest. The
assailant got off one shot from a .22 that mortally wounded the police
officer. The assailant survived to stand trial and get life. The
incident was captured on the dash mounted camera, and has been seen by
some.
# but if they have defended the aggressors next potential victim.
# Or victims.
For all the criticisms of the FBI in the April 1986 Miami incident,
one must observe that SA Grogan and SA Dove gave their lives to
prevent the deaths of others.
Ken Grubb
Lower Paxton Twp, PA
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Ken Grubb
#Sounds like the cops needed some more training as well.
When one is armed with handgun and facing a rifle wielding attacker,
one isn't availed of many choices.
Ken Grubb
Lower Paxton Twp, PA