.380 Is it a 9mm short?
bobron
I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT. Also, I read an article on the
9mm Makarov that said that the diameter of the 380 was only slightly
shorter than the diameter of 9mm luger. In addition felt recoil was only
about 10 percent less and muzzle energy suffered only slightly to the
luger. If this is true, then shouldn't the 380 be a fairly effective
defensive carry gun due to it's combination of shootability, compactness,
and power?
Tom Mosca
Dear Bob,
The .380 ACP is also known as the 9mm Short, 9mm Kurtz (German
for "short"), and 9x17mm. As you know, the 9mmP (Parabellum, also
9mm Lugar, 9x19mm, or just 9mm) uses the same bullets, though at
much greater velocities. There is also a 9x18mm, developed for folks
who want more power than the 9x17mm, but not so much as the 9x19mm,
or are prohibited from owning weapons in military calibers (e.g.
Italy), or want a smaller gun than typical 9mmP, but more power than
the 9x17mm (e.g. French police). The .380 ACP does not have power
comparable to the 9mmP, or even the 9x18mm. The second number refers
to case length.
Take care, Tom
On 6 Mar 1997, bobron wrote:
# I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
# version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT. Also, I read an article on the
# 9mm Makarov that said that the diameter of the 380 was only slightly
# shorter than the diameter of 9mm luger. In addition felt recoil was only
# about 10 percent less and muzzle energy suffered only slightly to the
# luger. If this is true, then shouldn't the 380 be a fairly effective
# defensive carry gun due to it's combination of shootability, compactness,
# and power?
#
#
# BOB bob...@fairfieldi.com
#
#
#
Karl F. Bloss
I have a short discussion about 9mm caliber equivalencies on my
Makarov FAQ:
http://www.enter.net/~bloss/makfaq.html
There's also a pointer there to an article on the rec.guns FAQ web
site.
Regards,
-Karl
"bobron" <bob...@fairfieldi.com> wrote:
#I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
#version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT. Also, I read an article on the
#9mm Makarov that said that the diameter of the 380 was only slightly
#shorter than the diameter of 9mm luger. In addition felt recoil was only
#about 10 percent less and muzzle energy suffered only slightly to the
#luger. If this is true, then shouldn't the 380 be a fairly effective
#defensive carry gun due to it's combination of shootability, compactness,
#and power?
+=================================+
| Karl and Kristina Bloss |
| bl...@enter.net |
| http://www.enter.net/~bloss |
| <PGP encrypted mail preferred> |
+=================================+
Dan Brown
"bobron" <bob...@fairfieldi.com> wrote:
# I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
# version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT. Also, I read an article on the
9mm Short (or 9mm Kurz) is a correct designation for the .380
ACP, but there is no relation to the 9mm Parabellum. The bullets are
the same diameter, 0.355" nominal, though the .380 usually uses
lighter bullets than the 9mmP. The .380 has significantly less power
than the 9mmP.
--
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, da...@value.net
Finger bro...@holmes.uchastings.edu for public key & Geek Code
E-Mail published at my discretion.
Larry L. Taylor
In article <5fmn1c$2...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "bobron" <bob...@fairfieldi.com>
wrote:
# I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
# version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT. Also, I read an article on the
# 9mm Makarov that said that the diameter of the 380 was only slightly
# shorter than the diameter of 9mm luger. In addition felt recoil was only
# about 10 percent less and muzzle energy suffered only slightly to the
# luger. If this is true, then shouldn't the 380 be a fairly effective
# defensive carry gun due to it's combination of shootability, compactness,
# and power?
#
The caliber is the same, but the weight of the bullet will vary. Most
.380 autos will use either a 90 or 95 grain bullet; the 9mm typically will
not use bullets below 115 in the same (caliber). Velocities can be
significantly higher for a 115 grain bullet out of a 9mm as opposed to the
lighter bullet in the .380.
You could carry one, but I'll stick to the 9mm as the minimum, thanks.
--
"The gene pool needs some chlorine"
Larry L. Taylor
john
I believe there is also a slight difference in case diameter too.
The 9mm's case is 0.380 or 9.65 mm while the case diameter for
the .380 is .373 or 9.47 mm.
john
brennan
Bob,
bobron <bob...@fairfieldi.com> wrote in article
<5fmn1c$2...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
# version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT.
Jahwohl! 9mm Kurtz (that's "short" in English)
# Also, I read an article on the
# 9mm Makarov that said that the diameter of the 380 was only slightly
# shorter than the diameter of 9mm luger. In addition felt recoil was only
# about 10 percent less and muzzle energy suffered only slightly to the
# luger. If this is true, then shouldn't the 380 be a fairly effective
# defensive carry gun due to it's combination of shootability, compactness,
# and power?
Handguns are marginal, anyway, for efficient defense work. Some don't even
trust the standard 9mm. Any gun is better than no gun, but by the time you
get down to a short 9mm, you're in some pretty iffy territory unless you
can guarantee a brain-shot.
Gerry
Steve
Yes a .380acp is a 9mmshort....it is called 9mm Corto and 9mm Kurz in
Europe (both meaning short)...
It is too underpowered to be effective for self defense...beats a rock,
but not recommended.
Daniel Slone
On 6 Mar 1997, bobron wrote:
# I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
# version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT. Also, I read an article on the
# 9mm Makarov that said that the diameter of the 380 was only slightly
# shorter than the diameter of 9mm luger. In addition felt recoil was only
# about 10 percent less and muzzle energy suffered only slightly to the
# luger. If this is true, then shouldn't the 380 be a fairly effective
# defensive carry gun due to it's combination of shootability, compactness,
# and power?
#
.380 is also called 9mm short (9x17 vs 9x19 fr the luger)
9x19 and 9x17 share a diameter of .356
9x18 (makarov) has a diameter of .36_ ???? (.363 ?)
In reloading 95 grain .380 bullets in 9x19, I was able to easily get 1450
fps. The .380 shoots these around 1000 fps. As muzzle energy increases
as to the square of the velocity, the 9x19 had more than TWICE the
muzzle energy.
The reason why .380's recoil like 9x19's is because they are usually
blowback. Shooting a locked breech .380 is very mild.
The 9mm makarov is only slightly more powerful than the .380, and so is
very weak when compared to the 9mm luger.
IMO, it's the shootability and compactness part that make .380's suitable
for CCW. Their power is fairly marginal. Still, I carry one.
Dan
Doug Heinen
bobron wrote:
#
# version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT.
Yes, my .380 AMT Backup is stamped 9mm kurz which is German for "short".
Too short a barrel for any decent acuracy, but a fine close range
gut-gun. I'd opt for a 9mm over the .380 any day. Rounds are cheaper,
slightly larger (mass) gun will offer less recoil. Many will argue that
a .45 will still be better yet. Choose what is right for you: fit,
comfort and accuracy. You have to hit what you aim at no matter what you
shoot! Sorry if I rambled on...
doug
Karl F. Bloss
"brennan" <gbre...@umich.edu> wrote:
#Jahwohl! 9mm Kurtz (that's "short" in English)
Just a nitpick:
It's "Jawohl" and "Kurz."
-Karl Friedrich <-- guess where I grew up ;-)
Karl F. Bloss
Daniel Slone <slo...@ava.bcc.orst.edu> wrote:
#9x18 (makarov) has a diameter of .36_ ???? (.363 ?)
9x18M bullets are usually sized .364", but .363" are common as well.
Makarovs tend to have relatively large variance in bore size.
-Karl
John Bischoff
The .380 ACP is actually a pretty effective round. It almost gets up to
the .38 Spl class. It's very efficient - with just enough room for the
powder needed in the case, unlike the .38 Spl which has room for 'way
too much powder.
Remember that the police in Europe carried .32 ACP for many decades, and
may still for all I have heard.
Jim Sherman
Doug Heinen wrote:
#
# bobron wrote:
# #
# # I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
#
# Yes, my .380 AMT Backup is stamped 9mm kurz which is German for "short".
Jim continues the string:
My R61 is marked 9mm Mak or the slide but the barrel is marked 9mm
SHORT. It shoots the 380ACP but evidently FEG changed its mind on what
to ship and changed barrels. As an alloy framed PPK size pistol it
really barks with the 380ACP. I don't believe I'd like it with the Mak.
I shoot and reload both and until I have to shoot soembody with either I
guess I won't be able to say which is the most effective- I can just
take somebody else's word for it.
Karl F. Bloss
Jim Sherman <jshe...@willmar.com> wrote:
#My R61 is marked 9mm Mak or the slide but the barrel is marked 9mm
#SHORT. It shoots the 380ACP but evidently FEG changed its mind on what
#to ship and changed barrels. As an alloy framed PPK size pistol it
#really barks with the 380ACP. I don't believe I'd like it with the Mak.
Just be very careful what you feed this sucker. 9x18M cartridge in a
380 (if you can even chamber it), could be catastrophic. .364"
bullet in a barrel meant for .356".
Craig Hull
On 6 Mar 1997 10:14:52 -0500, "bobron" <bob...@fairfieldi.com> wrote:
#I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
#version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT.
True but quite misleading as stated. Physically it is just slightly
smaller. In terms of power it is much smaller.
#Also, I read an article on the
#9mm Makarov that said that the diameter of the 380 was only slightly
#shorter than the diameter of 9mm luger. In addition felt recoil was only
#about 10 percent less and muzzle energy suffered only slightly to the
#luger. If this is true, then shouldn't the 380 be a fairly effective
#defensive carry gun due to it's combination of shootability, compactness,
#and power?
Felt recoil will depend on the gun. The recoil of a small .380 may be
more objectionable than a 9mm in a larger gun. The only guns in either
calibre I have found unpleasant had grips that did not fit my hand.
The .380 is beyond question vastly inferior to the 9mm as a defensive or
target round. So why do I own one? Because it was available in a gun
which better suited my needs than a 9mm. I carry it as a backup and when
I can not practically or comfortably conceal a larger weapon. I also have
a .22 for times that even the .380 is too large. (Actually I had the .22
first. I got the .380 because after moving to Atlanta I was encountering
more times when the .45 was impractical and the .22 left me feeling too
vulnerable.) And while the 9mm is a better cartridge, a .380 at hand is
far better than a 9mm at home or in the glove box.
I would recommend the 9mm over the .380. But if the gun you like and will
use, carry and practice with is a .380, buy it. It's not inadequate. Just
be sure to practice enough to be sure you can place your shots when
scared shitless and be sure to load it with top quality ammo. Don't even
think about carrying something this small with a full metal jacket round.
And please, carefully think through when you will and when you will not
use it. If you ever need it, it's too late to think about it. And
whatever happens, you will have to live with. So think it through long
and hard before you decide to carry.
--
Craig
Arrogance seeks to knows all the answers,
Wisdom seeks to understand the questions.
Cliff in Atlanta
I agree.
I carry my Sigma SW380 only when I can't sufficiently conceal
my Glock 19.
st...@grove.ufl.edu
# "brennan" <gbre...@umich.edu> wrote:
#
# #Jahwohl! 9mm Kurtz (that's "short" in English)
#
# Just a nitpick:
#
# It's "Jawohl" and "Kurz."
#
# -Karl Friedrich <-- guess where I grew up ;-)
You may think you are nitpicking, but actually you are pointing out
something very significant about modern German.
I supect that you mean to imply that you grew up in Germany. If that is
the case, I suspect you also know that for the last 400 years or so,
Germany has been updating spellings of words every 70-100 years to keep up
with drift in proununciation.
I have seen Kurtz in print with reguard to the 9x17 cartrage way to many
times for it to be a misprint.
This reminds me of the whole Neanderthal vs. Neandertal controversy. The
"h" was silent since about 300 years ago, but was retained in the spelling
until about 80-90 years ago. This was after the discovary and naming of
Neanderthal Man. Considering that English words which come from French,
came over a span of time in which the French had 7 spelling systems, why
should German words which make their way into English be any different?
Mike
Miguel A. Gonzalez
The way I understand it, .380 and 9mm Kurtz (Short in German) are the
same caliber, as opposed to 9mm Luger aka 9mm Parabellum, which is
what Americans know as 9mm.
"... the right of the people to keep and arm bears
shall not be infringed."
0-
Miguel A. Gonzalez
Keith Whaley wrote:
#
# Miguel A. Gonzalez wrote:
# >
# > The way I understand it, .380 and 9mm Kurtz (Short in German) are the
# > same caliber, as opposed to 9mm Luger aka 9mm Parabellum, which is
# > what Americans know as 9mm.
# >
# > "... the right of the people to keep and arm bears
# > shall not be infringed."
# > 0-
#
# Sorry, Miguel, but there IS no 9mm without some modifier behind it.
# There are some 9 to 12 separate and distinct 9mm's of some sort, I'd
# guess,
Could you provide a list?
# but not even Americans call any cartridge a 9mm without
# specifying *which* 9mm they are talking about.
Not necessarily. When you ask anyone about 9mm, without any modifier, it is assumed
that you are talking about 9mm Parabellum/Luger/Auto pistol.
#
# All you are specifying by saying 9mm is that it is probably a .355"
# diameter bullet. Shape - straight or taper - and all the other
# identifiers matter immensly.
#
# keith
Actually, 9mm is closer to .38". Aren't there some .38 cal revolvers that can be
modified to shoot 9mm Parabellum? Or maybe I'm thinking .45 Colt to .45 ACP.
Keith Whaley
Miguel A. Gonzalez wrote:
#
# The way I understand it, .380 and 9mm Kurtz (Short in German) are the
# same caliber, as opposed to 9mm Luger aka 9mm Parabellum, which is
# what Americans know as 9mm.
#
# "... the right of the people to keep and arm bears
# shall not be infringed."
# 0-
Sorry, Miguel, but there IS no 9mm without some modifier behind it.
There are some 9 to 12 separate and distinct 9mm's of some sort, I'd
guess, but not even Americans call any cartridge a 9mm without
specifying *which* 9mm they are talking about.
All you are specifying by saying 9mm is that it is probably a .355"
diameter bullet. Shape - straight or taper - and all the other
identifiers matter immensly.
keith
Fianna Consultation
Miguel A. Gonzalez wrote:
# # Sorry, Miguel, but there IS no 9mm without some modifier behind it.
# # There are some 9 to 12 separate and distinct 9mm's of some sort, I'd
# # guess,
#
# Could you provide a list?
9x19 (9mm Parabellum), 9x21, 9x23, .38 ACP, .38 Super, 9x25, 9x18
Makarov (not actually 9mm but called that anyway), 9mm Largo, 9mm
Magnum, .357 Sig, .356 TS&W, .45-38, etc... There's an even dozen and
these are just the ones I could come up with off the top of my head.
# # but not even Americans call any cartridge a 9mm without
# # specifying *which* 9mm they are talking about.
#
# Not necessarily. When you ask anyone about 9mm, without any modifier, it is assumed
# that you are talking about 9mm Parabellum/Luger/Auto pistol.
Unfortunately, you're probably right. American culture has an almost
pride in inexactitude in communication. (Gross generalization warning in
effect.)
# #
# # All you are specifying by saying 9mm is that it is probably a .355"
# # diameter bullet. Shape - straight or taper - and all the other
# # identifiers matter immensly.
# Actually, 9mm is closer to .38". Aren't there some .38 cal revolvers that can be
# modified to shoot 9mm Parabellum? Or maybe I'm thinking .45 Colt to .45 ACP.
Nope, 9mm is approximately .355. The .38 Special and .357 Magnum have
nominal bore diameters of .357. The only reason they're called 38
caliber is because the .38 special is a derivative of the .38 S&W which
had an actual bore diameter of .38. It used a rebated or heeled bullet,
however so the inside diameter of the case was actually .357. The
rebated or heeled bullet is where the base of the bullet is actually
smaller than the diameter of the bullet body, much like the .22 LR.
--
Jeff James
cai...@wolfenet.com
kyrie...@aol.com
# Miguel A. Gonzalez wrote:
#
#which is what Americans know as 9mm.
#Keith Whaley replied:
#
# Sorry, Miguel, but there IS no 9mm without some modifier behind it.
# There are some 9 to 12 separate and distinct 9mm's of some sort, I'd
# guess
# and Miguel A. Gonzalez retorted:
#Could you provide a list?
The following come immediately to mind:
9 m/m Browning
9 m/m Kurz (.380 ACP, 9 m/m Corto, 9 m/m Browning Short, etc.)
9x23 m/m Largo
9 m/m Luger (9x19, 9 m/m Parabellum, etc.)
9x18 m/m Makarov (though the true bullet diameter is not a 9 m/m)
9 m/m Magnum
9 m/m Mauser Export
9x18 m/m Ultra
9x23 m/m Winchester
There are a host of others; you might want to consult your copy of "Cartridges of the World".
# but not even Americans call any cartridge a 9mm without
# specifying *which* 9mm they are talking about.
#
#Not necessarily. When you ask anyone about 9mm, without any
#modifier, it is assumed that you are talking about 9mm
#Parabellum/Luger/Auto pistol.
I'm sorry, but you are incorrectly projecting your own assumptions on everyone else. Keith does not make that assumption, nor do I.
# All you are specifying by saying 9mm is that it is probably a .355"
# diameter bullet. Shape - straight or taper - and all the other
# identifiers matter immensly.
#Actually, 9mm is closer to .38".
Sorry, but you are in error. Keith has correctly cited the correct bullet diameter of the bullet used in 9 m/m Luger cartridges.
Regards,
Kyrie
Miguel A. Gonzalez
Keith Whaley wrote:
#
# >
# > >
# > > Miguel A. Gonzalez wrote:
# > > >
# > > > same caliber, as opposed to 9mm Luger aka 9mm Parabellum, which is
# > > > what Americans know as 9mm.
#
# <<snipped>>
#
# KW said:
# > > .... not even Americans call any cartridge a 9mm without
# > > specifying *which* 9mm they are talking about.
#
# > Not necessarily. When you ask anyone about 9mm, without any modifier, it is
# > assumed ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# > that you are talking about 9mm Parabellum/Luger/Auto pistol.
#
# KW says:
# Yes, necessarily.
# And furthermore, that is *only* assumed by folks that don't KNOW that
# there are any such other 9mm's, not those who shoot at least 2 or three
# themselves!
That was my point!
# I personally shoot 9mm Largo, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Kurtz, 9x23R (both
# incantations) and 9mm Makarov.
Good for you.
#
# KW said:
# > > All you are specifying by saying 9mm is that it is probably a .355"
# > > diameter bullet. Shape - straight or taper - and all the other
# > > identifiers matter immensely.
#
# Miguel said:
# > Actually, 9mm is closer to .38". Aren't there some .38 cal revolvers that can be
# > modified to shoot 9mm Parabellum? Or maybe I'm thinking .45 Colt to .45 ACP.
#
# KW says:
#
# "...closer to a .38..." than to what?
Closer to .38" not closer to A .38. Simple conversion, otherwise you are right.
# A 9mm Luger bullet and almost all the other 9mm's bullets actually
# measure .355-.356" diameter.
# Any ".38" revolver cartridge made in this country measures .357-.358"
# and that is where the .357 Magnum came from - bullet diameter.
# There are NO 9mm's that actually measure .38" diameter. Neither 9mm's
# NOR what we call .38's do. . .
#
# Miguel asked:
# > Could you provide a [9mm] list?
#
# KW says:
# Sure I can:
# - 9mm Luger (9x19mm Parabellum)
# - 9mm Largo (9x23mm, also called the 9mm Bayard, 9mm Bayard Long or 9mm
# Bergmann-Bayard)
# - 9mm Steyr (another 9x23mm cartridge, if you measure the case length)
# - 9mm Glisenti
# - 9mm Ultra (also called the 9mm Police)
# - 9x21mm (used in Italy primarily, but also France and Mexico)
# - 9mm Mauser (sometimes called the 9mm Export)
# - 9mm Federal (a rimmed version of the 9mm Parabellum, made recently by
# Fed. Ctg. Co.)
# - 9mm Browning Long
# - 9mm Russian Makarov (also called the 9x18mm, this is one that uses a
# .363" diameter bullet!)
# - 9mm Winchester Magnum (of identical dimensions to the 9mm Largo, but
# loaded much higher. This is also a 9x23mm, just like the Largo is. Don't
# use the Magnum in a Largo, whatever you do!)
# - .38 Colt Automatic (also called the .38 ACP here and the 9x23R in
# Europe)
# - .38 Super Colt Automatic (also 9x23R in Europe, but loaded hotter than
# the .38 ACP)
# - 9mm Corto (Italy), 9mm Kurtz (Germany) and 9x17mm or the 9mm Browning
# Short elsewhere in Europe - (also called the .380 ACP in this country)
#
# - - -Gee, I only came up with 14!
Gee, I guess you just like to nitpick and rub your knowledge in. Like I replied on
another post, unless you are more knowledgeable about firearms than the average person,
or actually shoot these calibers, chances are you would have never heard of most of
them.
#
# Hope this helps you understand that there is a whole huge world out
# there that shoots LOTS of various 9mm cartridges,
I already knew that.
# that are called all
# sorts of names, but never only "9mm!"
Like I said above, you either didn't read into my post or you are just nitpicking on
semantics in order to show that you are more knowledgeable. Chances are, that when
someone says they have a 9mm, due to its popularity, it will be a 9mm Luger and
probably they will just call it a "9mm."
#
# That's why it's important to specify WHICH 9mm you are talking about.
True enough. When talking about calibers other than 9mm Luger/Parabellum, chances are
that the modifier WILL be used.
# .
#
# keith whaley
gtg...@aol.com
In article <5gjgpm$e...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "Miguel A. Gonzalez" <Mig...@gonzalez.dungeon.com> writes:
##
## All you are specifying by saying 9mm is that it is probably a .355"
## diameter bullet. Shape - straight or taper - and all the other
## identifiers matter immensly.
##
## keith
#
#Actually, 9mm is closer to .38". Aren't there some .38 cal revolvers that
#can be
#modified to shoot 9mm Parabellum? Or maybe I'm thinking .45 Colt to .45 ACP.
#
#
#
as a matter of fact keith is right, but you are partly right. 9mm is close to the same caliber as a .38special. but a .38spl uses the same diameter as .357mag. it is the .38spl that is anachronous. in another thread we have been having the discussion on if you can use 9mm para in a .38 revolver, the consensus was, except one model with interchangable cylinders, it is not possible since the 9mm para is a tapered case, even though the bullets are approximately the same size(.355 vs .357)
i hope this cleared thing up,
fortune favors the prepared mind, luck is the residue of design,
good luck
g
Alexander Eichener
On 18 Mar 1997 kyrie...@aol.com wrote:
# # Miguel A. Gonzalez wrote:
# #
# # The way I understand it, .380 and 9mm Kurtz (Short in German) are
That would be 9mm kurz, without the baroque "t".
# #Could you provide a list?
#
# The following come immediately to mind:
#
# 9 m/m Browning
A very nice and undeservedly forgotten cartridge.
# 9 m/m Kurz (.380 ACP, 9 m/m Corto, 9 m/m Browning Short, etc.)
# 9x23 m/m Largo
# 9 m/m Luger (9x19, 9 m/m Parabellum, etc.)
# 9x18 m/m Makarov (though the true bullet diameter is not a 9 m/m)
# 9 m/m Magnum
# 9 m/m Mauser Export
# 9x18 m/m Ultra
# 9x23 m/m Winchester
Add 9mm Centrefire Revolver (also called .380 Revolver, and not to be
confused with the British .380-200 service cartridge).
Add 9mm Steyr (not identical to 9mm Bergmann-Bayard aka Largo).
Add 9mm Federal (rimmed revolver cartridge).
Add 9 x 21 Jaeger and 9 x 21 IMI.
--
Alexander Eichener, Heidelberg
New and old address, valid again: c...@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
Another address, already valid: c...@oink.rhein.de (a bit slower)
Do not use aeic...@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de anymore (mail is forwarded).
^HeadsUP^
On 8 Mar 1997 20:35:19 -0500, Doug Heinen <povt...@WOLFENET.com>
wrote:
#bobron wrote:
##
## I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly smaller
## version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT.
#
#Yes, my .380 AMT Backup is stamped 9mm kurz which is German for "short".
#Too short a barrel for any decent acuracy, but a fine close range
#gut-gun. I'd opt for a 9mm over the .380 any day. Rounds are cheaper,
#slightly larger (mass) gun will offer less recoil. Many will argue that
#a .45 will still be better yet. Choose what is right for you: fit,
#comfort and accuracy. You have to hit what you aim at no matter what you
#shoot! Sorry if I rambled on...
#
#doug
#
I agree with Doug. You have to find a handgun that best fits YOUR
particular needs and comfort. I am confined to a wheelchair and carry
a Berreta 84N Cheeta .380 ACP as my main means of defence. I also own
a Sig Sauer 239 Compact 9mm and a Beretta 92FS. The weight of those
two guns combined with their recoil just don't work for me as a main
day-to-day weapon.
Accuracy, the most important issue, is usallay discussed when
compairing .380 to 9mm. As with any gun, it's make, model, and size
have a LOT to do with this. Most .380's are very small, with a short
barrel, sloppy recoil, and low capacity mags. What I like about the
Beretta Cheeta is the fact that the 84N fells like your are handling a
true defence weapon. It's weight, size, and design are excellent. I am
a very good shot with all three of my handguns, but that came from
many hours on the firing line and many spent rounds. As anybody will
tell you, the more you use ONE particular gun, the better you will be
with it. From 15 to 20 yards, I can rapid fire 10 rounds head or chest
into a 4 inch pattern with my .380. It was once said to me that 10
well placed .380 rounds will bring down ANY opponent you may
encounter.
As far as stopping power is concerned, Remmington .380 ACP 105 Grain
Full Metal Jacket Hollow Points will tear the crap out of a Dallas
Yellow Pages phone book, just as good as a 9mm. A friend of mine just
bought a Desert Eagle .50 cal and refers to my .380 as my "sissy" gun.
My response to him is where is his prized cannon on any given day or
night of the week. . . at home in it's case while my Cheeta .380 sits
comfortably at my side in its shoulder holster. I think you get my
point.
^HeadsUP^
Joe
# #bobron wrote:
# ##
# ## I read in a gun magazine that the 380 caliber is just a slightly
smaller
# ## version of 9mm. They called it 9MM SHORT.
I have a LLAMA .380 which I reload the ammo for. If you are referring to
the actual diameter of the bullet,(the piece that comes out the front of
the barrel) they are the same. The case is a different length, however.
Being a fairly new reloader (under 2 years of reloading experience) I even
tried to cut down a case from the 9mm Parabelum (spelling ?) to see if I
could come up with my *own* idea. It didn't work for me.
Maybe other, more experienced people have had success, but for the life of
me, I don't even know if it would be worth it.
My 2 cents.
--
Joe
jca...@mindspring.com
Peter Stadlmaier
Hi !
Alexander Eichener <c...@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
#On 18 Mar 1997 kyrie...@aol.com wrote:
## # Miguel A. Gonzalez wrote:
## #
## # The way I understand it, .380 and 9mm Kurtz (Short in German) are
#That would be 9mm kurz, without the baroque "t".
## #Could you provide a list?
##
## The following come immediately to mind:
##
## 9 m/m Browning
#A very nice and undeservedly forgotten cartridge.
## 9 m/m Kurz (.380 ACP, 9 m/m Corto, 9 m/m Browning Short, etc.)
## 9x23 m/m Largo
## 9 m/m Luger (9x19, 9 m/m Parabellum, etc.)
## 9x18 m/m Makarov (though the true bullet diameter is not a 9 m/m)
## 9 m/m Magnum
## 9 m/m Mauser Export
## 9x18 m/m Ultra
aka "9mm Police"
## 9x23 m/m Winchester
#Add 9mm Centrefire Revolver (also called .380 Revolver, and not to be
#confused with the British .380-200 service cartridge).
#Add 9mm Steyr (not identical to 9mm Bergmann-Bayard aka Largo).
#Add 9mm Federal (rimmed revolver cartridge).
#Add 9 x 21 Jaeger and 9 x 21 IMI.
Add 9mm Frommer
Add 9mm Glisenti
Any more ?
Peter
"Shit happens !" (c) by Forrest Gump
Sgt.. William C. Kennedy III
The .380 ACP is referred to as the 9mm Corto (Italian for short) by
may European manufacturers. This does not mean that it can be used
in the 9mm like the .22 short can in some .22 arms. The .380 is
dimensionally different from the 9mm and the 9mm headspaces in the
case mouth, hence the .380 would suffer from a condition of excessive
headspace in the 9mm. (I know, the 9mm was designed to headspace on the
taper of the cartridge by Georg Luger, but it just ain't that way any
more, 'nuff said?) You could probably cut down the .380 case, ream the
case mouth and anneal the front 1/3 of it, but why? .380 brass isn't
all that expensive!
Good shooting
Bill
Alfredo A. Maia
On 19 Mar 1997 20:40:04 -0500, "Joe" <jca...@mindspring.com> wrote:
#I have a LLAMA .380 which I reload the ammo for. If you are referring to
#the actual diameter of the bullet,(the piece that comes out the front of
#the barrel) they are the same. The case is a different length, however.
They are VERY different. :=20
1) 0.380 ACP is a straight walled shell. 9 mm is kind of conical.
2) 0.380 ACP has 0.374 in diam. at the base. 9mm has 0.391 in.
#Being a fairly new reloader (under 2 years of reloading experience) I =
even
#tried to cut down a case from the 9mm Parabelum (spelling ?) to see if I
#could come up with my *own* idea. It didn't work for me.
Some times I have this same idea.=20
#Maybe other, more experienced people have had success, but for the life =
of
#me, I don't even know if it would be worth it.
It wouldn't be worth the trouble. Even in my country 0.380 shell are not =
so
expensive. Much cheaper than 9 mm shells.
#--=20
#Joe
#jca...@mindspring.com
#