Why didn't Beretta sue Taurus??
Paul Jane
Hello there,
I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
The only logical reason that I have come up with is the fact that
the Taurus shoots rather miserably (I shot one at my club, and it was
one of the worst experiences I've ever had...), but that would still
justify Beretta suing them for ruining their reputation... *LOL* Could
someone please enlighten me on this subject? I'm very curious about this
one. Thanks in advance...
Yours,
Paul
Dan Smith
Simple, Tarus has a contract with Beretta to produce a copy of the 92 and
other models.
Joshua R. Poulson
Paul Jane <pau...@total.net> writes:
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
# never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
# of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
Because they were licensed. The Taurus factory made Berettas for
Beretta for a time, and part of the deal was that they could continue
making them if they wanted to.
Scott Manthe
In article <647g8s$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, Paul Jane <pau...@total.net> wrote:
#Hello there,
#
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
#never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
#of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
#
# The only logical reason that I have come up with is the fact that
#the Taurus shoots rather miserably (I shot one at my club, and it was
#one of the worst experiences I've ever had...), but that would still
#justify Beretta suing them for ruining their reputation... *LOL* Could
#someone please enlighten me on this subject? I'm very curious about this
#one. Thanks in advance...
#
#Yours,
#
# Paul
Two reason come to mind- either the patent on the design ran out or Taurus
licensed the design from Beretta.
Scott A. Manthe
Internet Representative,
John Guffey Custom Cues
E-Mail: sc...@siu.edu
http://www.netgate.net/~hc3/guffeycues/
Lawson G. Stone
Paul Jane wrote:
#
# Hello there,
#
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
# of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
#
# The only logical reason that I have come up with is the fact that
# one of the worst experiences I've ever had...), but that would still
# justify Beretta suing them for ruining their reputation... *LOL* Could
# someone please enlighten me on this subject? I'm very curious about this
# one. Thanks in advance...
#
# Yours,
#
# Paul
I think the reason is in the history of the two companies. The sale of
the Beretta factory in Brazil seems to have included tools, machines,
dies, everything needed to manufacture the pistol. Here's the exerpt
from the "company history" on Taurus' home page, explaining BOTH the
connection with Smith&Wesson aned Beretta. Note ALL of what follows is a
quotation:
"Here comes one of the fun parts! Smith & Wesson had been purchased by a
conglomerate named Bangor Punta. In 1970, Bangor Punta also
purchased Forjas Taurus. Thus, the two companies became "sisters". S&W
never owned Taurus. They were both independent companies.
However, during the next seven years, a great deal of technology and
methodology was passed between the two. What may come as a surprise
to some is that as much of what was "right" in Porto Alegre was sent to
Springfield as was sent from Springfield to south of the equator.
"1977 saw our present ownership buy Forjas Taurus outright from Bangor
Punta. At once a quest to improve overall quality of Taurus product
was initiated. Also, the company now began a dynamic expansion program.
"Now, here comes the other fun part! Beretta won a huge contract in 1974
to produce small arms for the military and government of Brazil. Part of
the deal had been that Beretta construct a Brazilian factory and use
Brazilian labor. This they did, in the southwestern coastal city of Sao
Paulo.
When the contract ran out in 1980, Beretta sold the plant, literally
"lock, stock and barrel," to Forjas Taurus. Taurus now owned everything
that
once belonged to Beretta, including drawings, tooling, machinery, and a
very experienced work force. Forjas Taurus was in the pistol business!
--
//////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Lawson G. Stone輸sbury Theological Seminary邑ilmore, KY 40390
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////
"I never practice. I open the case once in a while and throw in a
piece of meat." Wes Montgomery, Jazz Guitarist, told to Jim Hall.
Mark Horning
#
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
#of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
#
# The only logical reason that I have come up with is the fact that
#one of the worst experiences I've ever had...), but that would still
#justify Beretta suing them for ruining their reputation... *LOL* Could
#someone please enlighten me on this subject? I'm very curious about this
#one. Thanks in advance...
#
#Yours,
#
# Paul
#
Actualy, what would be the procedure for an Itallian company attempting to
sue a Brazillian company? I doubt Beretta could realy do much. Anything
they did would have to be on a country by country basis. (verry expensive)
Mark E. Horning mhor...@netcom.com
Teacher Teacher, how can you teach, when all the grownups just want you to
preach, how can you teach the kids to think for themselves, with all the
censors stealing books from your shelves -- Leslie Fish
Dogwodwind
#why Beretta
#never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
#of the 92-series
I thought Taurus was made on old Berrata machinery.
Boom
Taurus bought the plant, tools, dies and all from Beretta.
Paul Jane <pau...@total.net> wrote in article
<647g8s$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# Hello there,
#
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
# never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
# of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
#
# The only logical reason that I have come up with is the fact that
# the Taurus shoots rather miserably (I shot one at my club, and it was
# one of the worst experiences I've ever had...), but that would still
# justify Beretta suing them for ruining their reputation... *LOL* Could
# someone please enlighten me on this subject? I'm very curious about this
# one. Thanks in advance...
#
# Yours,
#
# Paul
#
#
#
Ragnar
Beretta and Taurus at one time had a licensing agreement. Essentially,
Taurus was the Brazilian manufacture of Beretta handguns. A few years ago
taurus began producing their own designs, but you can still see the
resemblance.
Ragnar
--
To reply remove BITEME from the address.
Paul Jane wrote in article <647g8s$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#Hello there,
#
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
#never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
#of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
#
# The only logical reason that I have come up with is the fact that
#the Taurus shoots rather miserably (I shot one at my club, and it was
#one of the worst experiences I've ever had...), but that would still
#justify Beretta suing them for ruining their reputation... *LOL* Could
#someone please enlighten me on this subject? I'm very curious about this
#one. Thanks in advance...
#
#Yours,
Christopher Lym
Paul Jane (pau...@total.net) wrote:
: I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
: never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
: of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
: The only logical reason that I have come up with is the fact that
: the Taurus shoots rather miserably (I shot one at my club, and it was
: one of the worst experiences I've ever had...), but that would still
: justify Beretta suing them for ruining their reputation... *LOL* Could
: someone please enlighten me on this subject? I'm very curious about this
: one. Thanks in advance...
Taurus guns are generally decent in quality, from what I've seen. Your
experience must be one of the exceptions (there's always an exception,
right?).
Please check:
http://www.taurususa.com for the whole story on Taurus firearms. THis
should answer your legal questions.
Chris
David M. Miller
Sue for what? not patent infringement.the double action automatic goes back
to Walther, and so does the cam lockup on the beretta barrel assembly-both
decades old. Honest, I have a Taurus 99, and I have fired the beretta. Yes,
the taurus is a clone. for that matter, the glock, the 1911 and IBM
computers are imitated, with varying degrees of success. The sincerest form
of flattery, no? Dave
Paul Jane <pau...@total.net> wrote in article
<647g8s$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# Hello there,
#
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
# never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
# of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
#
# snip
ACantu8905
#Hello there,
#
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
#of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
#
# The only logical reason that I have come up with is the fact that
#the Taurus shoots rather miserably (I shot one at my club, and it was
#one of the worst experiences I've ever had...), but that would still
#justify Beretta suing them for ruining their reputation... *LOL* Could
#someone please enlighten me on this subject? I'm very curious about this
#one. Thanks in advance...
#
#Yours,
#
# Paul
Because Taurus (legally) bought the tooling and the plans for the 92 from
Beretta when they purchased the plant they were produced at in Brazil. The
story I heard was that Beretta built a plant to make pistols for the Brazilian
military and police, and when the contract expired, they couldn't do anything
with the plant (Brazilian law prohibits ownership of pistols in 9mm caliber).
Beretta sold the whole works to Taurus, who built pistols specifically for
import to the US. Anyone else have anything else to add?
Alex
P.S.--I've had a PT99AF for about nine years, never had a problem with it. I
like it better than the Beretta models because a) has a frame mounted safety,
b) better balanced, and c) bought it about 50% cheaper than the pricy
Berettas!
"When you shoot a mime, should you use a silencer?" Steven Wright
TaurusM605
Mike Gilliam
Paul Jane wrote in message <647g8s$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
#never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
#of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
Taurus didn't copy the design of the Beretta 92 series. Beretta
manufactured the model 92 in Brazil as a requirement for a Brazilian
military contract. When the contract ran out in 1980, they sold the factory
to Taurus. This included all machinery, drawings and tooling for the 92
pistol without any licensing or royalty contracts. Taurus was free to
manufacture and market the model 92's under their own name without any worry
about liability.
Mike
TSBench
In article <647g8s$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, Paul Jane <pau...@total.net> writes:
#Hello there,
#
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
#never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
#of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
#
#
Probably because Beretta sold Taurus the tooling to make them.
Regards,
TSB
Bill Walker...Producer and Cohost of The Shooting Bench radio
program...Curator of Small Arms, US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum in Quincy,
MA....General Manager, WDIS-Radio, Norfolk, Massachusetts.
Furger713
#I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
#never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
#of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)?
my understanding is that Beretta built the model 92 in Brazil for the military
there, and then sold the tooling off to Taurus when the military contracts
were complete. In effect, a licensed copy... although over the years the two
designs have developed slightly apart
Lee DeRaud
Paul Jane wrote:
#
# Hello there,
#
# I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
# never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
# of the 92-series (I happen to own one of those, an Italian-made 92F)??
#
Um...I'm a little unclear on the details but basically Beretta had a
contract to build pistols for the Brazilian military and built a factory
in Brazil to do so. Contract expired, the Taurus people bought the
tooling, the rest is history. This all happened, what, 15-20 years ago?
What I don't know is a) did Taurus actually license the then-current
design and/or b) are/were there any patents extant on the Beretta design
that would have made (a) necessary?
In any case, it's not like Taurus 'ripped off' Beretta, any more than
Bushmaster/Olympic/etc ripped off Armalite/Colt/etc on the AR15/M16.
Copying a non-copyrighted/non-patented design is not illegal, as long
as no attempt is made to pass off the copy as the original...the
difference in the brand name etc and the divergence in the designs
over the years makes that unlikely in this instance.
Now in the case of Glock vs Sigma, that was *not* about copying the
design per se: it was straight-up patent infringement - Gaston Glock
was smart enough (or greedy enough, your call) to patent several key
elements of the Glock design.
Lee
Dan Brown
mhor...@netcom.com (Mark Horning) wrote:
# Actualy, what would be the procedure for an Itallian company attempting to
# sue a Brazillian company? I doubt Beretta could realy do much. Anything
# they did would have to be on a country by country basis. (verry expensive)
Well, they could (assuming that there was really a cause of
action) sue in the USA, since both companies have plenty of contact
with this country; they could probably sue in any other contry where
they both have dealings.
--
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, da...@value.net
Finger bro...@holmes.uchastings.edu for Geek Code
E-Mail published at my discretion.
K9BNF
When WWII broke out. Baretta moved their operation to Brazil.
Even took their gunsmiths with them. They set up a factory there and at the
end of the war they left some engineers in Brazil to help Brazil
get things going. Product was junk at first but today they are
putting out a great product. With the blessings of Beretta.
John.....K9BNF.....Milwaukee, Wis
Milwaukee Police Officer Retired.
Good Police Work is 95% B.S.
G_Marcat
Paul Jane ha scritto nel messaggio <647g8s$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
Hello there,
I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta never
happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design of the
92-series
Paul
And why the SIG don't do legal actions against the Spanish firm STAR who has
copied the SIG's models?
Ciao by Graziano
personal page./ pagina personale:
http://www.users.iol.it/gmarcat/
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/downs/8091
hagedorn
In article <64aca4$7...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, dogwo...@aol.com says...
#
##why Beretta
##never happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design
##of the 92-series
#
#I thought Taurus was made on old Berrata machinery.
It is. Beretta SOLD the machinery to Taurus.
TSBench
In article <64ad7g$7...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, acant...@aol.com (ACantu8905)
writes:
# (Brazilian law prohibits ownership of pistols in 9mm caliber).
# Beretta sold the whole works to Taurus, who built pistols specifically for
# import to the US. Anyone else have anything else to add?
I think what Brazilian law really does is prohibit the sale of NEW 9mm
pistols made anywhere but in Brazil (to protect Taurus and other domestic
makers, if there are any.) There was no prohibition on selling USED 9mms.
This is why a while ago, Beretta, Sig, and a lot of others were offering
U.S police departments even up trade-ins of new .40S&W pistols for the
departments old, used 9mms, since they could ship them to South America and
get more for them than they can sell the new .40s for in the US.
black...@vnet.ibm.com
Paul Jane ha scritto nel messaggio <647g8s$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
| Hello there,
|
| I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta never
| 92-series
| Paul
I thought that Beretta sold their Brazillian factory, and tooling
to Taurus? Along with the rights to continue manufacturing the
Model 92?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Dan Campbell | I'm a ventriloquist - I can speak for anyone! |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- Remove the vowels from "ventriloquist" to send e-mail.
Pierce Leonberger
black...@vnet.ibm.com wrote in message <64v2qd$k...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# Paul Jane ha scritto nel messaggio <647g8s$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#| Hello there,
#|
#| I'm posting this short message to ask if anyone knows why Beretta
never
#| happened to sue Taurus due to the fact that they copied the design of the
#| 92-series
#| Paul
#
#I thought that Beretta sold their Brazillian factory, and tooling
#to Taurus? Along with the rights to continue manufacturing the
#Model 92?
#
#=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
#| Dan Campbell | I'm a ventriloquist - I can speak for anyone! |
#=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
#- Remove the vowels from "ventriloquist" to send e-mail.
#
#
This is quoted text from the Taurus International Web Page
http://www.taurususa.com/comphist.htm
Now, here comes the other fun part! Beretta won a huge contract in 1974 to
produce small arms for the military and government of Brazil. Part of the
deal had been that Beretta construct a Brazilian factory and use Brazilian
labor. This they did, in the southwestern coastal city of Sao Paulo. When
the contract ran out in 1980, Beretta sold the plant, literally "lock, stock
and barrel," to Forjas Taurus. Taurus now owned everything that once
belonged to Beretta, including drawings, tooling, machinery, and a very
experienced work force. Forjas Taurus was in the pistol business!
BTW: I own a Taurus PT-101 which is the same as the Beretta 96 and I love
it.
Later,
Pierce