Sig Trailside - Any Experience with Red Dots?
Alan F. Pilcher
sight on the Trailside pistol? Especially any of you with experience
with the Optima 2000 or the DocterSight light weight sights?
Did you mount it on the barrel dovetail or in the rear sight dovetail
(slide)? If on the rear of the slide did the sight affect the
pistol's mechanical operation at all? If you mounted on the slide,
how'd you do it? Where'd you get the mounting adapter?
If mounted on the barrel, did the forward positioning make for a
smaller sight picture and more difficult aiming? Does removal for
cleaning mess up the sight's alignment?
Thanks in advance for info.
Regards,
Alan Pilcher
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#
# Are there any Sig Trailside owners out there who have used a red dot
# sight on the Trailside pistol? Especially any of you with experience
# with the Optima 2000 or the DocterSight light weight sights?
# Did you mount it on the barrel dovetail or in the rear sight dovetail
# (slide)? If on the rear of the slide did the sight affect the
# pistol's mechanical operation at all? If you mounted on the slide,
# how'd you do it? Where'd you get the mounting adapter?
# If mounted on the barrel, did the forward positioning make for a
# smaller sight picture and more difficult aiming? Does removal for
# cleaning mess up the sight's alignment?
#
# Thanks in advance for info.
# Regards,
# Alan Pilcher
Never mounted a red dot on a trailside, but have mounted a "1 EER
Leupold.
You can't mount anything heavy on the slide because it's a blowback
design.
The top of the barrel is dovetailed to accept standard rimfire 3/8"
scope mounts. I didn't have any trouble finding a set for a 1" tube.
I bought mine from Leupold, though several brand choices were
available.
No trouble with the forward mount for me because the scope I bought
was specially designed for this purpose - EER, extended eye relief.
I can't imagine you will have any trouble with a 20mm or 30mm dot
sight.
One thing to keep in mind is that if you scope overhangs the barrel
by the crown, it's going to get splattered from the muzzle blast.
Overhand the breach, and it's not very bad.
Yes, you have to remove the scope mounts to clean.
Dave
David Wisniewski
# sight on the Trailside pistol? Especially any of you with experience
# with the Optima 2000 or the DocterSight light weight sights?
# Did you mount it on the barrel dovetail or in the rear sight dovetail
# (slide)? If on the rear of the slide did the sight affect the
# pistol's mechanical operation at all? If you mounted on the slide,
# how'd you do it? Where'd you get the mounting adapter?
# If mounted on the barrel, did the forward positioning make for a
# smaller sight picture and more difficult aiming? Does removal for
# cleaning mess up the sight's alignment?
Evolution Gun Works can make you a custom mount for your Optima. You
will need to send in the slide and barrel so it can be fitted properly.
Cost is $75 http://www.egw-guns.com/parts/parts_scopemounts1.htm
-David
davi...@erols.com
Stanley Rosenblum
difficult to control when using with open sights. The addition of a
Simmons red dot along with a barrel weight made the gun much more fun to
shoot. I'm still not thrilled with its accuracy, since it costs about
twice as much as my .22 colt with about equal results.
If you're comfortable with the gun without additional weight, I expect
you'll be satisfied with a rear mounted dot sight.
If, however, you find problems with its light weight, go for a barrel
mounted one.
Loyd
version, so the sight reaches from the muzzle to the breach when mounted
with the front mount as far forward as possible. My gun seems to shoot more
accurately with the Red Dot forward.
I shoot bulleseye with it and clean the pistol between each match. I always
try to put the sight back in the same spot but there can be slight
variations is the point of aim each time I remount the sight. Tightening the
screws on the ramp, which is part of the barrel, seems to be part of the
problem. Too loose and the sight will move by itself. Too tight and the
point of aim seems to move slightly to the right.
A bigger problem with the Trailside is finding good ammo for it. The only
ammo I've found that always loads reliably is Eley Tenex, which I can't
afford to use very often. I got a box and use it as a benchmark when
examining individual bullets from cheaper, standard ammo.
The TrailSide is still more accurate with the Red Dot than shooting it with
iron sights, and it's more accurate than any other bulleseye gun I've used,
although I've never had a chance to shoot a Smith&Wesson model 41.
"Alan F. Pilcher" <afpi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:9norrn$m21$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
> ...
Nicole Hamilton
# My gun seems to shoot more accurately with the Red Dot
# forward.
Putting more weight out toward the muzzle tends to reduce recoil. That's
probably all that's going on.
# I shoot bulleseye with it and clean the pistol between each
# match.
You're probably overcleaning. A .22 bullseye pistol doesn't need to be
cleaned any more often than perhaps every few hundred rounds or every month
or two, whichever comes first. Anyway, every time you do clean, you need to
shoot some fouling shots to get the gun to settle back down again.
# I always try to put the sight back in the same spot but
# there can be slight variations is the point of aim each
# time I remount the sight.
Yipes. You have to remove, then remount the red dot every time you clean?
And you =still= clean after every match?
A. You're =definitely= cleaning too often.
B. What's the size of your group that you can put up with this?
C. Who has the time to rezero for each match? (It takes me several trips
to the range to tweak the sights on a new gun to be just right, giving me
the best long-term scores. After that, I may continue to tweak maybe one
click every couple months. I can't possibly imagine how you could be
competitive if your sights have moved every time you shoot this gun.)
C. I'd get a different gun if a red dot was important.
# The TrailSide is ... more accurate than any other bulleseye
# gun I've used, although I've never had a chance to shoot
# a Smith&Wesson model 41.
I'd be more interested to know how your gun did against the others you =did=
shoot, if only to know your standards of comparison. Compared to a Ruger Mk
II or a S&W 22A, yes, I expect many shooters might judge the Trailside a
better gun. Compared to a 41, I'd expect a fairly even split of opinions,
slightly favoring the 41. Compared to a Pardini SP (which is what I shoot)
or a Hammerli SP20, 280, or 208, or some other top BE guns, I expect most
people would judge the Trailside as inferior.
Anyway, with a good .22 bullseye gun, what does it mean to say it's "more
accurate?" All the good ones are capable in a rest with good ammo of
one-hole groups at the 50' distance used for national match. What's more
important are the ergonomics: trigger (2 stage? adjustable? rolling vs.
crisp?), grip, weighting, etc., and how well that fits your own needs. Who
cares how accurate the gun is. What you should care about is how accurate
you are with it.
Nicki
Loyd
every time you fire the TrailSide but I'm going to try your suggestion.
You're right about the problems of resighting the pistol after every
cleaning. I don't like to push the cleaning rod from the muzzle to the
breach, but cleaning less often makes sense.
My bulleseye shooting is just a club event. In theory we're only competing
against our own scores and having fun. No one is spending much money on it.
I'm still trying to find inexpensive, standard ammo that shoots well. My
TrailSide seems to have more feeding problems than anyone else.
Thanks again for your suggestions.
"Nicole Hamilton" <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote in message
news:9nt33a$55c$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
# "Loyd" <Loyd.P...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
# A. You're =definitely= cleaning too often.
# B. What's the size of your group that you can put up with this?
# C. Who has the time to rezero for each match? (It takes me several trips
# to the range to tweak the sights on a new gun to be just right, giving me
# the best long-term scores. After that, I may continue to tweak maybe one
# click every couple months. I can't possibly imagine how you could be
# competitive if your sights have moved every time you shoot this gun.)
# C. I'd get a different gun if a red dot was important.
My eyes are old. The Red Dot is important, and most nights I'm not real
competetive.
# # The TrailSide is ... more accurate than any other bulleseye
# # gun I've used, although I've never had a chance to shoot
# # a Smith&Wesson model 41.
#
# I'd be more interested to know how your gun did against the others you
=did=
# shoot, if only to know your standards of comparison. Compared to a Ruger
Mk
At 50 feet the Trailside gets me about 100 more points than the Mark II did.
I've only used a Mark II a few times. It was very accurate from a bench rest
but it was large for my hand. Since I put on Sig's wooden grips the
TrailSide fits my hand well and, at the end of the day, its lightness
doesn't make my point of aim jiggle like the bull-barrel Mark II did.
I used a Browning MiniMark before the TrailSide. You can't clean the bore on
the BuckMarks from the breach and to clean the action you still have to take
the Red Dot off. I picked up around 200 points when I moved from my MiniMark
to the TrailSide even though I wasn't used to it yet, but neither the Ruger
nor the Browning were as finiky about feeding as the TrailSide is. While
others shoot Green Tag and standard velocity ammo without trouble, it jams
my TrailSide as early as the fourth target. Eley is the only thing I've
found that always works. Part of the trouble seems to be powder fouling on
the plastic clips the TrailSide uses.
I'm not familiar with the Pardini and would have to drive 700 miles to get a
look at one. Why do you like it? What ammo will it take? What makes it shoot
better standing than the others?
# Anyway, with a good .22 bullseye gun, what does it mean to say it's "more
# accurate?" All the good ones are capable in a rest with good ammo of
# one-hole groups at the 50' distance used for national match. What's more
# important are the ergonomics: trigger (2 stage? adjustable? rolling vs.
# crisp?), grip, weighting, etc., and how well that fits your own needs.
Who
# cares how accurate the gun is. What you should care about is how accurate
# you are with it.
Nicole Hamilton
# Thanks for your assistance. The Sig-Hammerli manual says
# to clean after every time you fire the TrailSide but I'm going
# to try your suggestion.
Manuals always say clean after every use but that just doesn't pass reality
tests with anyone who's shooting .22 regularly (e.g., matches at least once
a week). What I would say makes sense is to be sure to clean each time you
expect you're putting the gun away for more than a couple weeks.
# My eyes are old. The Red Dot is important, and most nights
# I'm not real competetive.
Believe me, I'm 50 years old myself and I understand. I shoot with
Aimpoints on both my Pardinis and they are nice. Otoh, I also think the
benefits of a red dot can be oversold. I also shoot air pistol and 1911 and
also, service rifle, all of these with iron sights and my scores
(percentages, I mean) are about the same. The thing is, all you really need
to be able to see clearly is the front sight. The rear sight and the target
are =supposed= to be a blur. The trick is just to make sure it's the same
blur every time. :)
# At 50 feet the Trailside gets me about 100 more points than
# the Mark II did.
Wow. This can't possibly be out of 300, so I assume it must out of 900? Or
do you mean 2700?
My own experience is that a good gun does make an immediate difference in my
scores but find it's about 5% or less.
# TrailSide fits my hand well and, at the end of the day, its lightness
# doesn't make my point of aim jiggle like the bull-barrel Mark II did.
An exercise the top shooter on my team has convinced me to try and which
does seem to help is some weight training, just lifting 5 or 10-lb weights
and holding them out to build strength. You might find that'll help you,
too.
# ... neither the Ruger nor the Browning were as finiky about feeding
# as the TrailSide is. While others shoot Green Tag and standard
# velocity ammo without trouble, it jams my TrailSide as early as the
# fourth target. Eley is the only thing I've found that always works.
# Part of the trouble seems to be powder fouling on
# the plastic clips the TrailSide uses.
More likely, it's just that you're shooting a European pistol. They tend to
have problems with CCI. I used to shoot nothing but CCI in my S&W 22A but
found that it was simply impossible when I got the Pardini. CCI is a little
longer and waxier than other brands and binds in the European magazines.
You may find, as I did, that Federal 711B Target or 900B Match will feed
acceptably, at a whole lot lower cost than Eley.
# I'm not familiar with the Pardini and would have to drive 700 miles
# to get a look at one. Why do you like it? What ammo will it take?
# What makes it shoot better standing than the others?
The best thing about the Pardini SP (http://www.nygord-precision.com) is the
trigger. It's absolutely wonderful. It's two-stage, meaning there's a
take-up, then a break, and it's all fully adjustable. If you've never shot
an adjustable two-stage trigger, you have no idea what you're missing. It's
like legalized cheating.
The gun itself is rather heavy (especially, muzzle-heavy) with some
spring-loaded moving weights in the muzzle but the result is also that the
recoil characteristics are great for the timed and rapid stages. The grip
is also very good, though not quite as good as the Morini grip on my Steyr
air pistol.
What can I say? I liked my SP so much I went out and bought the Pardini HP
centerfire version in .32 S&W also. It's just a wonderful gun and though,
for me, the cost difference between the Pardini and the Hammerlis was
immaterial to my choice (in for a penny, in for a pound :), it's nice to
know that it's also something of a bargain, only a couple hundred more than
a 41 (but a =lot= more gun) and hundreds less than the Hammerlis (which I
didn't like nearly so much.)
Nicki