Glock Slam-Fire Malfunction?
Nice Guy Eddie
have been the AMT backup, but I'm not sure. All I know is that it's
never happened to me (although I haven't really fired enough rounds to
say that it never will). I also clean my gun REALLY well after going to
the range every time. Do the guys who rent them clean them that often?
I haven't ever heard anyone who had this problem. Personally, I
wouldn't worry about it.
Steve
Eaco + Associates
#So I called my local rental range. They no longer rent out Glocks
#because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
#a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
#the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
#They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
#including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
#stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
This sounds rather bogus to me. I suspect there is some other
reason they don't rent Glocks any more. Is the range in the Boston area?
I own a couple Glocks and have shot thousands of rounds through
them with no problem. My normal Glock break in method is to shoot 500
rounds before I even consider maybe cleaning just to get a good breakin.
A slam fire, IMHO is almost (I'm tempted to say 100%) impossible
with the basic Glock design as I understand it
Can you let us know the name of this range?
DVC
--
Regards,
>>Dick<<
RMALKIN
a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
We'll have to wait and see what the consensus is on this but in the
meantime I'll offer my gut-feel speculation:
There's a HELLUVA lot of Glocks out there and they've been out there in
big numbers since the mid-80's. Certainly a design flaw of this magnitude
would have garnered some mention on the 'net or in the glossy mags or in
the shooting schools by now given the immense scrutiny Glocks have come
under since their introduction. And there's been 5 incidents at this range
alone????
- Rob
Joel A. Frahm
--snip--
# They say that when
#a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
#the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
#They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
#including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
#stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
#
#Has this happened to any Glock users out there?
Nope. Not yet, anyway.
# Or is this a case of
#bad gun handling where a finger may have strayed onto the trigger and
#it was blamed on the gun? Has this happened to anyone with any other
#semi-auto? Could such a malfunction even make a Glock go full-auto?
#
I suppose it's possible for any gun to get the firing pin wedged in the
extended position, and then maybe cause slam fires. More likely, the
round won't chamber as it tries to slide up the boltface under the extractor,
it'll hit the extended firing pin and either push it back flush with
the boltface or, just hang there and jam.
My friends P-89DC has gotten the firing pin jammed up twice, both
times the firing pin was removed and it was discovered that brass
shavings had gotten into the firing pin hole, and kept the pin from
striking the primer with enough force, i.e. light strikes. This
is far more likely to happen than something jamming the pin so it
sticks out. I encourage anyone with a Ruger P-series to check
the pin more often than you think you have to. My friend's seems
to get shavings in there every few hundred rounds. His problem
may have been related to a case we found, where the primer was
completely missing, probably fell out of a worn primer pocket
from too-often reloaded brass.
I'm taking down the Glock 22 tonight to have a looksee, though.
Maybe the pin is designed differently than I remember. Most
pins are designed such that debris is pretty likely to cause a
light strike, but hardly a slamfire.
#If this can happen, I don't think I want a Glock after all...
#
Well, it can happen with ANY gun. If you shoot enough, some
sort of dangerous malfunction will probably happen to you.
Make sure your saftey habits are good enough so that when
it does happen no one gets hurt. Remember, the life you save,
could be mine, dammit. :-)
-Joel (fr...@colorado.edu)
p.s. what's the drill for a slamfiring pistol? I assume you just
keep it pointed downrange and try to keep the muzzle down, finger
off the trigger, two hands on the gun. Certainly don't drop the
thing! That's my plan anyway.
Rob Province
<vi...@ll.mit.edu> wrote:
(snip)
# So I called my local rental range. They no longer rent out Glocks
# because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
# a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
# the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
# They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
# including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
# stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
#
# Has this happened to any Glock users out there? Or is this a case of
# bad gun handling where a finger may have strayed onto the trigger and
# it was blamed on the gun? Has this happened to anyone with any other
# semi-auto? Could such a malfunction even make a Glock go full-auto?
#
# If this can happen, I don't think I want a Glock after all...
I find this hard to beleave. My Glock 19 is from 1988 and has NEVER
given me a single worry. Glocks are designed to go off when you pull the
trigger, NO EXCEPTIONS. Of course I take VERY good care of my firearms,
but even if they never cleaned it I don't feel that a slam-fire would
accure, the gun would simple sieze up with filth. I would also question
the users lack of experence (and I'm sure there is one).
Rob Province
rsp...@nic.smsu.edu
div...@dlep1.itg.ti.com
# So I called my local rental range. They no longer rent out Glocks
# because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
# a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
# the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
# They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
# including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
# stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
#
# Has this happened to any Glock users out there? Or is this a case of
# bad gun handling where a finger may have strayed onto the trigger and
# it was blamed on the gun? Has this happened to anyone with any other
# semi-auto? Could such a malfunction even make a Glock go full-auto?
I have never had it happened....and I have never heard of it happening.
I figure, as much testing and use the Glocks have had...somebody
would have found it, and made it really public.
paul milligan
h...@Glue.umd.edu (Dave bd Hsu) wrote:
~~In article <950302152...@LL.MIT.EDU>,
~~H. E. M. Viggh <vi...@ll.mit.edu> wrote:
~~#So I called my local rental range. They no longer rent out Glocks
~~#because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
~~#a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
~~#the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
IMHO, your range is full of crap. If not, why haven't we heard of this before ?
~~#They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
~~#including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
~~#stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
RULE 3 : Keep your finger off the trigger.
Even more so on a gun with no separate external safety.
( Like revolvers, and Glocks )
~~Hypothesis:
~~ 1) Range used to rent Glocks almost exclusively
~~ 2) Range requires that you buy their ammo for use in rentals
~~ 3) Range is not known for keeping their rental guns clean
~~ 4) Range uses ultra-economy no-name reloads with slow, dirty
~~ powder
~~ 5) Range is about to discover their new rental selection requires almost
~~ constant cleaning for other, new problems, but slamfires are history
~~
Amen to the above.
Did anyone else notice the 60 Minutes thing last week on the 'E Corp ?'
Some outfit that does high-security / black arts government stuff.
It seems one of their employees was cleaning his Glock in his hotel room,
AND THE DAMNED GLOCK JUST WENT OFF ! ( and killed a lady in the next room).
Couldn't have been that THE ASSHOLE DIDN'T UNLOAD HIS GUN TO CLEAN IT !?!
If they're like my local range, you wouldn't want to shoot one of their
rentals without cleaning it yourself, or at least scraping some of the crap off.
I would be a whole lot more likely to suspect broken parts due to severe
abuse / lack of giving a damn by your range.
Steve White
: So I called my local rental range. They no longer rent out Glocks
: because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
: a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
: the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
: They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
: including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
: stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
Cleaning helps. In this case, the firing pin. I owned 2 Glocks, a 22 and
17. Never had a problem like this. I maintain my Colt every so offen by
pulling the firing pin and cleaning the thing. Only takes a minute or two.
Glock is a very good pistol, I question this range that had the slam fire.
I would buy the Glock 21 if the company would sell the pistol with 2 mags.
Since Sig (220) sells 2 magazines with their pistols, I'm looking at them.
Still have time Glock, money is still in my wallet. (If there is a Rep
reading this)
Steve
Dave bd Hsu
#because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
#a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
#the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
#They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
#including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
#stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
My only question is this: "and where does that dirt come from?"
Glocks have a well-earned reputation for being able to go from NIB to
thousands and thousand of rounds through with no maintenance at all.
No cleaning, no lube, nada. They're among the better guns at surviving
the "bury in dirt/sand/mud, dig up, shake off, operate" test. My limited
experience with them is that they don't get all that dirty with factory
ammo, either.
PURE SPECULATION FOLLOWS.
The Glock has so few moving parts, it's possible that in this particular
case, the buildup of dirt first manifests itself in this way, while most
other firearms would have failed in a less-catastrophic way much earlier,
forcing the range to clean them.
Hypothesis:
1) Range used to rent Glocks almost exclusively
2) Range requires that you buy their ammo for use in rentals
3) Range is not known for keeping their rental guns clean
4) Range uses ultra-economy no-name reloads with slow, dirty
powder
5) Range is about to discover their new rental selection requires almost
constant cleaning for other, new problems, but slamfires are history
Just curious if this reflects the situation at all.
-dave
--
Dave Hsu <h...@glue.umd.edu>
"The only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden violence."
- UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali
Bite Me ATF
#Thanks again to everyone that answered my questions regarding Glocks
#vs Sigmas. Based on them I am leaning towards the Glock, either the
#19 or 23. However, I decided that I should invest some range rental
#time to make a final decision.
#
#because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
#a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
#the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
#They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
#including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
#stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
#Has this happened to any Glock users out there? Or is this a case of
#bad gun handling where a finger may have strayed onto the trigger and
#it was blamed on the gun? Has this happened to anyone with any other
#semi-auto? Could such a malfunction even make a Glock go full-auto?
#
#If this can happen, I don't think I want a Glock after all...
first, i would tend to blame the ammo. could have been bad range reloads with
the primers sticking out.
but there was a case here where a cop said his glock 18 discharged when it was
hit by a softball, i posted the whole story a while back. butthe local word is
that the cop was screwing around with the gun, but its in the report as a
malufunction due to softball. of course cops dont lie.
also know of a story where a guy tossed a glock on his bed and it went off,
store owner told me it happened to one of his friends and had it been any one
else he wouldn't have believed it.
Personally, i believe glock is dealing with the same kind of crap that AUDIS
went through with "unatttended accleeration" (when people claimed their audis
were taking off at full speed even though they were stnading on the breaks)
people are blaimng glocks for all sorts of things now and of course lawyers are
suing about it. Gaston Glock even had to come into town to defend his gun from
a law suit. Apparently a cop shot a fleeing woman in the back of her head, he
was chasing her with his finger on the trigger. well glock won the suit.
having shot both the glock and sigma i would definately choose the glock any
day. but betwween a glock and a USP, i would pick the usp any day.
thomas
Second Amendment Is For Everyone
: In article <950302152...@LL.MIT.EDU>, "H. E. M. Viggh" <vi...@ll.mit.edu> writes...
H. E. M. Viggh
So I called my local rental range. They no longer rent out Glocks
because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
Has this happened to any Glock users out there? Or is this a case of
bad gun handling where a finger may have strayed onto the trigger and
it was blamed on the gun? Has this happened to anyone with any other
semi-auto? Could such a malfunction even make a Glock go full-auto?
If this can happen, I don't think I want a Glock after all...
Jack D'
# I read about this with another type of gun... I think it might
#have been the AMT backup, but I'm not sure. All I know is that it's
#never happened to me (although I haven't really fired enough rounds to
#say that it never will). I also clean my gun REALLY well after going to
#the range every time. Do the guys who rent them clean them that often?
# I haven't ever heard anyone who had this problem. Personally, I
#wouldn't worry about it.
#Steve
In the past slam fires _did_happen with glocks. This is why they came out
with an upgrade kit. The slam fires only occured in older G17's and G19's.
One of my G19's needed the upgrade The word on the street was that there
was a recall, but not according to Glock Inc. They did tell me that there
was an upgrade. The upgrade consists of a new firenig pin (stainless) and
a couple of spring cups w\ new springs and another item ...damn i cant
remember the proper name of it.. but it's the little thing that blocks the
fireing pin from going forward you can see it on the underside of the
slide.
Before mine was upgraded i was able to push the fireing pin forward
manualy with the internal safty inguaged via the little metal tang. After
the upgrade i was unable to do that.
I do not know if another than the G17,G17L, G19's were affected.
PS I'm working on a Glock page I have a few pics there and am looking for
more. Later I will scan some pics of my Glock knife, shovel, 33rd mags,
and other Glock accs. including some after market stuff. Some of the pics
were modified in Corel paint.
http//www.best.com/~jdnails/glock.html
_______________________________________________________________
jdn...@best.com Klinton, Can you say_by_by in '96
75104,17...@compuserve.com <*> <*>
http://www.best.com/~jdnails /
~~~~~~Freedom\\Not Free any more, you need to buy it now.~~~~~~
Sanford E. Walke IV
: In article <950302152...@LL.MIT.EDU>, "H. E. M. Viggh"
: <vi...@ll.mit.edu> wrote:
: (snip)
I would have to agree. This sounds like either a bogus story, or extremely
poor maintenance on the part of the range. I personally know of a glock 17
with over 60,000 rounds through it without cleaning. It's never slam-fired.
I seldom clean my G22, and it's never slam-fired.
-----
Sandy
se...@izzy.net
"Cuius testiculos habes, habes cordia et cerebellum."
I don't speak for anyone but me, and sometimes not even that.
Doug Gwyn
# One of my G19's needed the upgrade The word on the street was that there
#was a recall, but not according to Glock Inc. They did tell me that there
#was an upgrade.
It was (is) a free upgrade for all Glock pistols manufactured before
November 1991, and all owners who sent in their warranty cards should
have received notification and instructions long ago. It was not
technically a "recall", but for practical purposes if you consider it
as such you'll have the right general idea. There is no excuse to
not take advantage of the upgrade (which was accompanied by an offer
to install tritium sights at a discount while the gun was in the shop).
#The upgrade consists of a new firenig pin (stainless) and a couple of
#spring cups w\ new springs and another item ...
I don't know that it is actually stainless steel, but the replacement
parts are nickel-colored (as opposed to the original black Tenifer),
which makes it easy to tell upon field-stripping whether the upgrade
has been installed.
The spring cups weren't involved. Besides the striker safety and
striker, the upgrade included a new connector. There may have been
one or two other parts; I'd have to go look it up..
When I had mine done, Glock replaced a couple of other unrelated parts
at no charge, because apparently they thought they were worn or damaged.
I appreciated that..
# Before mine was upgraded i was able to push the fireing pin forward
#manualy with the internal safty inguaged via the little metal tang. After
#the upgrade i was unable to do that.
Yes, at least on a Glock 22 I could force the striker forward past
the safety block before the upgrade, but not afterward. It took
quite a bit of pressure and if it ever did cause a mishap it would
have been more of a "floating firing pin" kind of mishap than a true
"slam fire".
Jason and Heather
# So I called my local rental range. They no longer rent out Glocks
# because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
# a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
# the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first
# round. They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five
# incidents, including one that happened to an employee before they
# decided to stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
my bogometer's tripping. every time the slide of a Glock is racked,
the trigger bar hangs up on the striker tang, retracting the firing
pin. you can watch this yourself: dry fire a Glock, then slowly
retract the slide. you can see the firing pin still protruding from
the breech face. as you let the slide forward again, the firing pin
will suddenly disappear when the slide comes within 1/4" of battery.
something would have to go wrong with the trigger bar to striker
tang lockup in order for a slam fire to occur. that part of the
gun rarely simply doesn't get very dirty. even if it did, the design
of the gun positively prevents the trigger bar from slipping off the
striker _unless_the_trigger_is_pulled_.
of course, if someone had been tampering with the disconnector, the
trigger bar might not be reset correctly... say, one of the bozos
down at that range hasn't been messing around with one of those
3.5 lb. trigger kits from Alchemy Arms now, has he?
# If this can happen, I don't think I want a Glock after all...
*shrug* up to you... my advice is buy the Glock, and keep it far,
far away from "gunsmiths" who think they know how to make the
perfect gun better.
jason
--
"...my fellow neuronaughts were all linked up, plugged
in, speed crazed, and increasing the bandwith of love."
CARL...@UMN.MR.EDU
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` stei...@indirect.com `,`,`,`
Frank Crary
Sanford E. Walke IV <se...@izzy.net> wrote:
#: # So I called my local rental range. They no longer rent out Glocks
#: # because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
#: # a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
#: # the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
#: # They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction...
#: I find this hard to beleave. My Glock 19 is from 1988 and has NEVER
#: given me a single worry. Glocks are designed to go off when you pull the
#: trigger, NO EXCEPTIONS. Of course I take VERY good care of my firearms,
#: but even if they never cleaned it I don't feel that a slam-fire would
#: accure, the gun would simple sieze up with filth. I would also question
#: the users lack of experence (and I'm sure there is one).
#I would have to agree. This sounds like either a bogus story, or extremely
#poor maintenance on the part of the range...
I don't believe even poor maintaince could make a Glock "slam fire".
For that to happen, the firing fin has to be jammed forward, so
that the force of the slide closing will cause it to fire.
But, once, I did reassemble my Glock incorrectly, so that
the firing pin was held forward by the firing pin safety.
(This happens, by the way, when you fully disassemble the
slide then put the firing pin and safety back in in the
wrong order.) The gun did not slam fire. Instead, the stuck
firing prevented the round from being chambered at all.
In normal operations, the back of the round slides up,
under the extractor and against the forward face of the
slide. The the firing pin is jammed forward, then the
round can not slide into place, the slide can not close
and the firing pin doesn't get close to the primer.
Honestly, I don't see how you could _make_ a Glock
"slam fire".
Frank Crary
CU Boulder
Jack D'
# I read about this with another type of gun... I think it might
#have been the AMT backup, but I'm not sure. All I know is that it's
#never happened to me (although I haven't really fired enough rounds to
#say that it never will). I also clean my gun REALLY well after going to
#the range every time. Do the guys who rent them clean them that often?
# I haven't ever heard anyone who had this problem. Personally, I
#wouldn't worry about it.
#Steve
In the past slam fires _did_happen with glocks. This is why they came out
with an upgrade kit. The slam fires only occured in older G17's and G19's.
One of my G19's needed the upgrade The word on the street was that there
was a recall, but not according to Glock Inc. They did tell me that there
was an upgrade. The upgrade consists of a new firenig pin (stainless) and
a couple of spring cups w\ new springs and another item ...damn i cant
remember the proper name of it.. but it's the little thing that blocks the
fireing pin from going forward you can see it on the underside of the
slide.
Before mine was upgraded i was able to push the fireing pin forward
manualy with the internal safty inguaged via the little metal tang. After
the upgrade i was unable to do that.
I do not know if another than the G17,G17L, G19's were affected.
Dan Brown
: Would suggest that you all do a little more thorough research before you
: express
: opinions which might affect the safety of others. Glock pistols have had
: problems
: with slam-fires for years, and recently have been guilty of firing out of
: battery, with
: resultant damage to pistol and shooter.
: Perhaps your very own pistol is subject to a current recall.
Would suggest that you provide documentation of this claim.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and the claim that a
pistol which has an enormous reputation for reliability also has a
serious safety problem is an extraordinary claim.
I haven't experienced this problem with my G23, but I haven't
shot it too much (about 200 rounds so far). However, from my examination
of the mechanism, and texts I have read about it, I don't see any way
this could happen without a serious component failure (broken trigger
assembly, for instance).
--
Dan Brown, KE6MKS
da...@acme.csusb.edu -- finger for PGP 2.6.1 public key
Don't Tread on Me
The Polymath
}I would buy the Glock 21 if the company would sell the pistol with 2 mags.
}Since Sig (220) sells 2 magazines with their pistols, I'm looking at them.
}Still have time Glock, money is still in my wallet. (If there is a Rep
}reading this)
Note that the G21 with one pre-ban magazine and +2 floor plate holds more
rounds than a P220 with two stock magazines (15+1 vs. 2x7+1). Of course,
the P220 is far better suited to concealed carry.
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: holl...@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp "Learning about the U.S. from the popular
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. media is like learning about plumbing by
Santa Monica, CA 90405 sitting in a cesspool." -- Michael Phelps
Bigwaffen
express
opinions which might affect the safety of others. Glock pistols have had
problems
with slam-fires for years, and recently have been guilty of firing out of
battery, with
resultant damage to pistol and shooter.
Perhaps your very own pistol is subject to a current recall.
Gary Coffman
#Thanks again to everyone that answered my questions regarding Glocks
#vs Sigmas. Based on them I am leaning towards the Glock, either the
#19 or 23. However, I decided that I should invest some range rental
#time to make a final decision.
#
#So I called my local rental range. They no longer rent out Glocks
#because they feel that they are a safety hazard! They say that when
#a Glock gets some dirt in just the right place near the firing pin,
#the gun can go off when you rack the slide to chamber your first round.
#They called this a "Slam-Fire" malfunction. They had five incidents,
#including one that happened to an employee before they decided to
#stop renting the Glocks out. They till sell them though.
#
#Has this happened to any Glock users out there? Or is this a case of
#bad gun handling where a finger may have strayed onto the trigger and
#it was blamed on the gun? Has this happened to anyone with any other
#semi-auto? Could such a malfunction even make a Glock go full-auto?
#
#If this can happen, I don't think I want a Glock after all...
Relax. Slamfires can happen with any closed bolt semi-auto where
the bolt carries the firing pin or striker, IE damn near all of
them. *But* it *really* has to be caked with crud for this to
happen, IE the firing pin channel has to be so clogged that the
pin cannot move from the forward position.
The SKS has recently caught flack for this as well, primarily from
people with a vested financial or emotional investment in other
weapons. The dirty little secret is that a Colt can do this too,
or a M1 Garand, or AR-15. You *really* have to neglect them to make
this happen though.
With even minimal routine cleaning, slamfires should be exceedingly rare.
The "problem" with weapons like the Glock and the SKS is that they are
so reliable in function when filthy that they can continue to operate
without cleaning until they are so clogged that they can slamfire. Many
other guns would stop working long before this point. So they won't
slamfire because they won't chamber or fire at all due to crud buildup.
If you clean a Glock or SKS as frequently as you *have* to clean other
weapons to retain function, neither the Glock nor the SKS will slamfire
either.
Gary
--
Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | ga...@ke4zv.atl.ga.us
Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | |
Doug Gwyn
#indeed. i have also heard of claims that Glocks would fire out
#of battery, so i decided to check them out for myself. ...
#this made me curious how other pistols compared. ...
Thanks for the interesting information!
Another factor here would be the relative likelihood of the pistol
to not fully seat the slide after cycling. I've actually seen this
happen several times on the Glock 22 I usually practice with.
Usually I can tell from the feel of the preceding shot that the slide
has not seated home, but it is worrisome that the recoil buffer
spring is not strong enough to force the slide home. If there is a
really good fix for this I'd like to know about it.
Jack D'
#In article <3jdole$q...@xring.cs.umd.edu> jdn...@best.com (Jack D') writes:
## One of my G19's needed the upgrade The word on the street was that there
##was a recall, but not according to Glock Inc. They did tell me that there
___ Snippag____
#The spring cups weren't involved. Besides the striker safety and
#striker, the upgrade included a new connector. There may have been
#one or two other parts; I'd have to go look it up..
Just FYI
I watched the gunsmith install my upgrade,as he only charged me freight
on the parts and i didn't want my gun going from CA to GA. I saw the cups
while he installed them.
As for the SS vers teflon coated I am not 100% sure I too would have to
look it up. But I am at least 85% sure :-))
Asta'
..
Emmanuel Baechler
# Would suggest that you provide documentation of this claim.
# Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and the claim that a
# pistol which has an enormous reputation for reliability also has a
# serious safety problem is an extraordinary claim.
#
# I haven't experienced this problem with my G23, but I haven't shot it
# too much (about 200 rounds so far). However, from my examination of
# the mechanism, and texts I have read about it, I don't see any way
# this could happen without a serious component failure (broken trigger
# assembly, for instance).
It would be very nice if someone did thoroughly study and document
this problem. It would be even better if this documentation was
available on the net.
Although I did never have any problem with my personal G21, I saw a G20
and a G23 going into burst mode on a range.
I have no idea of the cause of the problem, I do however suspect that
it is a quite subtle combination of various factors.
--
Emmanuel Baechler. | Tel.: ++41-21-314-29-06
Etat de Vaud | Fax: ++41-21-314-45-55
Service des Hospices Cantonaux | e-mail: baec...@lia.di.epfl.ch
Office Informatique | or: baec...@liasun6.epfl.ch
Les Allieres | Standard Disclaimer
CH-1011 Lausanne Switzerland
Jason and Heather
# Bigwaffen (bigw...@aol.com) wrote:
# : Would suggest that you all do a little more thorough research
# : before you express opinions which might affect the safety of
# : others. Glock pistols have had problems with slam-fires for
# : years, and recently have been guilty of firing out of battery,
# : with resultant damage to pistol and shooter. Perhaps your very
# : own pistol is subject to a current recall.
#
# Would suggest that you provide documentation of this claim.
indeed. i have also heard of claims that Glocks would fire out
of battery, so i decided to check them out for myself. what i
found out was that my Glock *would* dry-fire if the slide was
held back a small amount (~1mm). the slide is not "out of battery"
at this point. firing it at this position would reduce the amount
of distance the slide has to move before unlocking, however.
examining the mechanism, it seems that this play could be reduced
nearly to zero if a slightly larger disconnector were used. that
would engage the ridge on the inside of the slide more quickly.
this made me curious how other pistols compared. thanks to the
helpful guys down at the local range, (who also became curious when i
told them about this) i have dry fired over a dozen different
varieties of pistol while pulling back slightly on the slide.
Berettas have a lot of slop (2-3mm). most other types have comparable
tolerances to the Glock. 1911 pistols seem to have the least. (more
kudos for John Moses Browning!)
as for the "damage to pistol and shooter" claim, hogwash. Glocks
do blow up if you push them hard enough. (gasp!) the design is
such that it fails in a predictable and relatively (for an exploding
device) safe manner. the most common complaint is a pinched or
blistered trigger finger. it would be nice if guns couldn't
be made to blow up, period. there isn't a gun around that can make
that claim. i'm happy with a pistol that won't blow up if treated
right, and if i should do otherwise, will fail in a non-catastrophic
manner.
jason
--
Stark raving sane.
ROSENCRANTZ & GUILDENSTERN ARE DEAD
Dillon Pyron
In article <3ji70c$3...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bigw...@aol.com (Bigwaffen) writes:
#Would suggest that you all do a little more thorough research before you
#express
#opinions which might affect the safety of others. Glock pistols have had
#problems
#with slam-fires for years, and recently have been guilty of firing out of
#battery, with
#resultant damage to pistol and shooter.
#Perhaps your very own pistol is subject to a current recall.
#
# Para bellum, ALEX
#
Please document, oh anonymous one.
dillon
dillon...@amd.com
PADI AI-54909 USPSA A-26031
"You don't expect me to talk"
"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die"
"Oh"
T Perez
: Would suggest that you all do a little more thorough research before you
Since you have obviously done research on this, please tell us where you
get your data from. After all, your fact/opinion might affect the safety
of others.
Hal
(BTW, to everyone who has a preference in firearms, there's no need to
bad mouth a particular firearm just because you happen to not like it.)
Jack D'
Glock slamfires were a FACT there were numberious posts and bulletens
in reguards to this 1-2 years back. I will try to dig up a copy for you
guys. This problem occured in pre 1991 modles. Any of you that have access
to a Compu$serve acct. In the firearms area search for files relating to
glock and you will see 2 one is from 1992. That one gives alot of info
pertaining to the slamfires. The other states the serial numbers of the
guns affected. I am trying to get premission to post these.
I believe that AOL also has similar files on this topic. Do a software
search and type in Glock...If that doesn't work go to Keyword Guns in the
forum
there is a specific Glock area and it has been around for quite a long
time.. the people there may be able to get ya' a copy of the recall notice.
I am not anti_glock in any way...I have 2 of 'em.
I know i saved a copy of the so called Upgrade (realy a recall) notice
on disk...but I have to go through at least 300-400 to find it. I will try
though. Only because this information is _Fact_..
..
paul milligan
~~In article <1995030819...@herald.indirect.com> stei...@indirect.com (Jason and Heather) writes:
~~#indeed. i have also heard of claims that Glocks would fire out
~~#of battery, so i decided to check them out for myself. ...
~~#this made me curious how other pistols compared. ...
~~
~~Thanks for the interesting information!
~~Another factor here would be the relative likelihood of the pistol
~~to not fully seat the slide after cycling. I've actually seen this
~~happen several times on the Glock 22 I usually practice with.
~~Usually I can tell from the feel of the preceding shot that the slide
~~has not seated home, but it is worrisome that the recoil buffer
~~spring is not strong enough to force the slide home. If there is a
~~really good fix for this I'd like to know about it.
Sounds like maybe it's dry and dirty ?
Dave bd Hsu
Emmanuel Baechler <baec...@lia.di.epfl.ch> wrote:
## Would suggest that you provide documentation of this claim.
## Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and the claim that a
## pistol which has an enormous reputation for reliability also has a
## serious safety problem is an extraordinary claim.
#
#It would be very nice if someone did thoroughly study and document
#this problem. It would be even better if this documentation was
#available on the net.
All I can say is:
Where are you, Peter Alan Kasler, when we need you? 'been mighty quiet
since the announcement of the Glock/S&W lawsuit...
Daniel Brewster
slide
has not seated home, but it is worrisome that the recoil buffer
spring is not strong enough to force the slide home. If there
is a
really good fix for this I'd like to know about it.
Well, many reasons for this -- what type of ammo are you using? I
recently purchased a die set from Dillon that resized the brass in
such an odd way that I can't describe it, but that's beside the
point. This reloaded ammo will function flawlessly within my Sig
228, but just plain will not allow my Glocks to go into battery.
Ahh, what to do? Find some ammo that you pd gun functions with
everytime & stick with it!
fwiw, dan
--
Daniel Brewster -- 72002,1322 -- Speak for myself, nobody else.
DavidW7198
go into battery. Sig is a mixed bag... I have Hansen .40 S&W TMJ that
works well in S&W Sigmas & Glocks, but wont work in my Sig P-229
reliably.... Winchester USA 180gr. TMJ & Silvertips and Load-X 180gr.
TMJ reloads work well...
Glocks have notoriously tight 9mm chambers... so use VERY high quality
reloads like Load-X or use factory ammo...
___________________________________________
David Welling
NRA Life Member
Jason and Heather
#
# Another factor here would be the relative likelihood of the pistol
# to not fully seat the slide after cycling. I've actually seen this
# happen several times on the Glock 22 I usually practice with.
# Usually I can tell from the feel of the preceding shot that the slide
# has not seated home, but it is worrisome that the recoil buffer
# spring is not strong enough to force the slide home. If there is a
# really good fix for this I'd like to know about it.
i've experienced the same thing. in my case it was a bad batch of
reloads. (a very bad batch indeed. some .38 specials from the same
source jammed Heather's revolver up tight. the only malfunction
we've had with it.)
it may be that the recoil spring is just loosening up with age.
i've noticed that it's a lot easier to rack the slide of my G21
now than it was when new. so far, it hasn't affected function at
all. Glock should be able to send you a replacement spring at a
reasonable price. Wolff also makes a variety of springs, some of
them are 'extra power'.
this might be a good excuse to buy a Harrt's Recoil Reducer too.
they replace the standard guide rod, and Glock versions have a
captive spring included. "But honey, I'm just replacing the worn
out parts on my gun. It's not a new toy! Honest!"
jason
ps. limp wristing could also be causing this. if the spring doesn't
get fully compressed it might not have enough power to chamber the
next round. if it's just happening with this one Glock though, the
spring's probably at fault.
--
"More life, more love, more freedom, more choice!" - MORTAL, Painkiller
Dean Speir
the following is offered by someone who has been tracking this
and related stories for the past 42 months. It is intended to
give some of the more vociferous Nay-sayers their first clue!
I've been involved with Glocks since early '86 when as a Federal
licensee I obtained two of the first in this country for transfer
to friends who had been panting like hot warthogs over this
radical new Austrian technology. Problem was, I was not allowed
to transfer them because the Suffolk County (NY) chief licensing
officer refused to allow it since such a firearm in civilian
hands would prove "an unjustifiable risk."
Only through the good offices of NRA-ILA and my own efforts,
after eleven months, the Sheriff folded his hand and stalked
off to Evanston, IL where he crashed his County-owned car at
0515 one morning and is now out of office and on criminal
probation related to another alcoholic driving incident.
Ironically, most of the local police departments as well as
Suffolk County all carry Glock 9X19mms or .40S&Ws now.
Glock's Karl Walter bullshit us the entire time I fought HIS
fight, insisting that the battle would have to be fought first
in NYC before Suffolk County. I had civilian-legal Glocks 17
months BEFORE two acquaintances of mine pulled it off in
NYC by revealing that the then Police Commissioner, Ben
Ward (a civilian), had a Model 17 on his carry license! Glocks
were approved for NYC licensees 36 hours later!
In my 4-1/2 years of writing the "Industry Intelligencer" column
for GUN WEEK, I uncovered a number of alarming events related
to Glock malfunctions, design flaws, quiet design changes, and
pre-trial settlements involving not only catastrophic failures
but mishaps. I wrote about these from 12/91 until I resigned my
weekly GW column in May 1994. Two major features have also
been published in gun-zines:
"Shadows Cloud Glock Perfection" for the April '93 GUN &
SHOOTER, and something I can't begin to translate in summer
993 in the German VISIER.
I have documented (not "heard about," but documented!) over
five dozen catastrophic Glock failures, photographed ruined
guns, injured hands (the most recent at Gunsite 3 June '94 with
a Model 21) and such.
I have an extensive file of both independent and U.S. Government
laboratory reports on Glocks gone bad and often ka-BOOM!, most
with reloaded, handloaded or remanufactured ammunition, but NOT
all! Some of the metallurgical reports would cause anyone to foul
their boxer shorts... but I have to keep some of those in
perspective since they are authored by "Independent Experts"
retained by entities contemplating civil actions against Glock.
The "Slam-Fire Heard 'Round The World" occurred in an LEO's
bedroom 2 January 1992 when an officer preparing for duty,
released the slide of his Model 19 to chamber a round of
124-grain Hydra-Shok. The duty weapon was rushed to the range
when a Glock certified Master Armorer was easily able to
replicate the malfunction on demand.
The only time he could not replicate the slam-fire" was when the
Model 19 spontaneously lapsed into burst fire, always an exciting
happenstance. And although Glock insisted that the officer's
Glock 19 had been tampered with, within two weeks of the event,
the company began "upgrading" the 1200 issued Models 19 with
the six new parts:
> A reformed trigger bar
> Firing pin/striker
> Firing pin safety plunger and plunger spring
> Extractor
> Spring-loaded bearing
This event also directly led to the April 1992 Glock Technical
Bulletin which announced the scheduled "Upgrade" (let none dare
call it a recall!) of all Glocks imported prior to October 1991.
Anyone concerned about their own Glock pistol, there is a toll
free number dedicated to this very matter: 1-800-828-2781. The
"upgrade" program endues today, and encompasses all Models
17, 19, 20, 21, 22 and 23 imported prior to mid-Autumn, 1991.
As recently as 13 February in Dallas/Fort Worth area, a brand
new Model 20 Glock experienced a near catastrophic event when
the fourth ever round, a factory new 180-grain JHP!, through the
pistol detonated out-of-battery and cracked the frame. The
striker was, upon inspection by a Glock certified armorer,
discovered to be locked forward with the tip protruding through
the breech face, thus rendering the 10mm an open bolt pistol.
This, incidentally, occurred to a member of the rec.guns group,
and he may or may not come public with it since this has been
expeditiously handled and he is now the owner of another brand
new Model 20.
As an indication of my credibility, Glock's corporate counsel and
V.P. (who appears to be actually ramrodding the Smyrna, GA
company now) Paul Jannuzzo went into AMERICAN HANDGUNNER
two years go and attempted to dismiss me as a "gossip columnist."
When that failed to have any salutary effect, their corporate
policy last year became that no Glock advertising shall appear in
any periodical in which my byline occurs.
For the record, I own a Glock 21 and love it. It is the softest
shooting, most accurate out-of-the-box .45ACP I've ever owned!
But I am VERY particular about the kind of ammunition it shoots,
because it, and all Models 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24, WILL not only
fire significantly out of battery, but has a chamber which is not
fully supported in that critical area over the feed ramp.
I have a distinctively marked factory new 230-grain JHP round
which was struck while the slide was out of battery,
so I know first hand that it CAN and DOES happen.
Gaston Glock has wrought an extraordinary design, one that has
had an incredible impact on the firearms industry and the law
enforcement community world wide.
But Glock "perfection" is slightly illusory, and you may have
noticed that even they have tacitly acknowledged this by dropping
that "bug" (or sub-logo) from their corporate advertising in the
past year.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * *
* Dean Speir / ntr...@prodigy.com
*
* Founding Member: Firearms Fourth Estate
*
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * *
* "It's not a perfect world out there, which is why many of us *
* have guns in the first place!" - the late Waldo Lydecker *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * *
paul milligan
NTR...@prodigy.com (Dean Speir) wrote:
~~In regard to the Glock slam-fire / malfunctions contentiousness,
~~the following is offered by someone who has been tracking this
~~and related stories for the past 42 months. It is intended to
~~give some of the more vociferous Nay-sayers their first clue!
[......]
Ok, let me get this straight... ( I WANT a clue ! )...
You personally know of over sixty cases of Glocks spontaneously
sorting themselves back into spare parts, right ?
You personally know of Glocks going 'full-auto' all by
themselves, right ?
You personally OWN, SHOOT, AND LOVE YOUR GLOCK 21, right ?
OK, now that I have the facts straight... now give me clue:
Are you nuts ? Or do you just have a death wish ?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you think that this gun is subject to these failure modes, how
could you ever pick one up and shoot it ? I would refuse to be
on the range with one !
~~I have documented (not "heard about," but documented!) over
~~five dozen catastrophic Glock failures, photographed ruined
~~guns, injured hands (the most recent at Gunsite 3 June '94 with
~~a Model 21) and such.
[.......]
~~The only time he could not replicate the slam-fire" was when the
~~Model 19 spontaneously lapsed into burst fire, always an exciting
~~happenstance. And although Glock insisted that the officer's
~~Glock 19 had been tampered with, within two weeks of the event,
~~the company began "upgrading" the 1200 issued Models 19 with
~~the six new parts:
[.......]
~~For the record, I own a Glock 21 and love it. It is the softest
~~shooting, most accurate out-of-the-box .45ACP I've ever owned!
~~But I am VERY particular about the kind of ammunition it shoots,
~~because it, and all Models 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24, WILL not only
~~fire significantly out of battery, but has a chamber which is not
~~fully supported in that critical area over the feed ramp.
Jason and Heather
#
# You personally know of over sixty cases of Glocks spontaneously
# sorting themselves back into spare parts, right ?
#
# You personally know of Glocks going 'full-auto' all by
# themselves, right ?
#
# You personally OWN, SHOOT, AND LOVE YOUR GLOCK 21, right ?
#
# OK, now that I have the facts straight... now give me clue:
#
# Are you nuts ? Or do you just have a death wish ?
#
# If you think that this gun is subject to these failure modes, how
# could you ever pick one up and shoot it ? I would refuse to be
# on the range with one !
um, i won't presume to speak for Mr. Speir, but it's not that hard
to figure out.
Glocks are not perfect.
"Glock - Perfection" doesn't mean that any more than "Good to the
last drop" means that the dregs of my Folgers instant will be
a gustatory delight, or that the LAPD is really bound to "Protect
and Serve" me.
i must thank Mr. Speir for pointing out some very true FACTS about
Glock pistols. these discoveries don't make me feel any less confident
about my own G21. i just know not to do dumb things like f*** with
the disconnector trying to get a lighter pull, or shoot +++P+++
ammunition in it because a truly "perfect" gun would be able to
handle it.
it has also inspired me to curiosity about other types of guns.
i've discovered that EVERY gun will fire "out of battery", some even
more significantly so than Glocks. (remember, "significant" means
a millimeter.) i've discovered that many other weapons have chamber
cutouts for the feed ramp, or the extractor, or even witness holes.
(some barrel manufacturers advertise 1911 barrels that have been
specifically redesigned to eliminate these.)
and i've personally seen barrels from MANY different brands of gun
busted wide open. frankly, i'm surprised it doesn't happen more
often. when you consider that hundreds of thousands of guns and
billions of rounds of ammunition are manufactured every year, a
quality control system with a 99.99% safety record will still
produce a fair number of lemons.
so Glocks are just guns like any other, and we're back to selecting
them on the same basis you'd select any other gun, not some fluff
that the marketing drones thunk up.
jason
--
A little government and a little luck are necessary in
life but only a fool trusts either of them
P.J. O'ROURKE
Carlos Dwa
I recently purchased some used Glock mags.
In order to get a half decent price I
had to buy more than I want for myself.
Some are drop free -some are not.
The non drop free mags are in excellent
condition. Some look like they have never
been used at all. The drop frees' exhibit
a little wear but are in good condition.
Of course these will work in both the
Glock22 and Glock23 but will protrude
from the model 23 about as much as a +2
base plate.
I'm offering them for $65 -non dropfree
and $75 for dropfree. In lots of five
or more only -mix as you please.
I don't have many -I just hate the shipping
thing. First come first serve. Add $10
bucks for shipping and insurance per order.
Oh -no offense but please don't
ask for me to send you one or two mags.
This is the rock bottom price. I am only
getting two free mags for my trouble so
take it or leave it.
email for details.
ps I also have a few Scherer mags in 9mm and
40 for Glocks they hold 33 and 31 rounds
respectivly and are $95
Carlos
Dan Brown
: I have documented (not "heard about," but documented!) over
: five dozen catastrophic Glock failures, photographed ruined
: guns, injured hands (the most recent at Gunsite 3 June '94 with
: a Model 21) and such.
Just to make sure, you've also documented numerous catastrophic
failures of the Beretta 92, right? Of these over five dozen catastrophic
failures, how many were solely the fault of the gun? IOW, how many
resulted not from poor ammunition (double-charged, squib round, etc), or
abuse (modification, home gunsmithing, etc), but were in fact the result
of a serious design flaw?
BTW, as you probably know, the 1911 chamber isn't fully supported
over the feed ramp either. Does this make that pistol unsafe too?
Russ Kepler
Dan Brown <da...@acme.csusb.edu> wrote:
# BTW, as you probably know, the 1911 chamber isn't fully supported
#over the feed ramp either. Does this make that pistol unsafe too?
Why do you think there are steel plates in the Pachmayer grip panels?
*Every* firearm has failures, some catastrophic. I believe that there
has been an unfortunate focus on the Glocks primarily because of their
newness.
The failures from an SAA without a transfer bar firing when dropped on
it's hammer, the pre-model 80 1911 firing when dropped 6 or more feet
on it's muzzle, the Remington mdl 700 firing coming off safety, all of
these are "expected" in some sense because we've been dealing with
some of them for years. The Glock is new, and therefore a focus is
made on it's failures, even when they may well be a less common
occurance than other failures with which we're more familiar.
--
Russ Kepler posting from home ru...@bbxrbk.basis.com
Please don't feed the Engineers
Dean Speir
#Just to make sure, you've also documented numerous catastrophic
#failures of the Beretta 92, right? Of these over five dozen
catastrophic
#failures, how many were solely the fault of the gun? IOW, how many
#resulted not from poor ammunition (double-charged, squib round, etc),
or
#abuse (modification, home gunsmithing, etc), but were in fact the
result
#of a serious design flaw?
Now you've got it!
Yeah, that's what I do... I take the gun shop grapevine BS and track
it down. Then when the fat guy in the CAT Diesel cap leaning on the
end of the gun store counter scratching his greasy beard repeats the
story with some wild variations, I'm reasonably confident that I know
what the actual story is... NOT because "well, it's what I heard some-
where from someone."
It's called "critical thinking" (skepticism) and good journalism. (Do
you have a problem with that? Does this threaten the very fabric
of everything you thought you knew???
That's what I do. I document! That's why when I publish I get called
nasty names, but I don't get hauled into court.
Breakout of catastrophic failures?
Most were ammo related with the Glocks. (This was NOT the case
with the M9s, however.)
However, the Glock has some design features which make it
especially susceptible to catastrophic failure...
<> It will fire out of battery.
<> The fire control system does not reset /retract the tip of
the firing pin/striker until the latter part of the forward
travel of the slide.
<> The three larger chambered Glocks lack full case support
in the chamber area over the feed ramp.
And, AND!, there are a lot of people out there who like to reload
45ACP, 10mm and .40S&W, and many of them own Glocks. And
their case generation is of indeterminate age, perhaps weak in
the web area.
But what of the Model 20 which went up with factory new ammo
on the fourth round ever through it!?! Or the Model 21 (WA460 U.S.)
which injured a U.S. Customs Agent on it's 22nd or 23rd ever round,
a 185-grain WW STHP?!?
Make your own decisions... just be better informed, is all!
And, I DO appreciate your own skepticism.
Dean Speir
Firearms Fourth Estate
fjp...@prodigy.com
debjohn
[...]
: However, the Glock has some design features which make it
: especially susceptible to catastrophic failure...
I'm curious. Have these "features" caused any Glock Models 17, 18, or 19
to self-destruct? These first pistols were engineered for military, not
just law-enforcement or civilian, use, and with the fairly high-pressure
NATO 9mm round. The oft-mentioned military trials of these first Glock
pistols went, according to all accounts of which I am aware, extremely
well, and did not result in any catastrophic failures. If you have
evidence to the contrary, I'd be rather interested.
[...]
: <> The three larger chambered Glocks lack full case support
: in the chamber area over the feed ramp.
I suspect that this is the most significant design problem, and it does
not much affect the Glock 17, 18, or 19. "Major 9mm" proved those models,
at least, to be sufficiently robust in that area.
[...]
: Make your own decisions... just be better informed, is all!
Amen.
: And, I DO appreciate your own skepticism.
And I appreciate yours.
Cheers,
debjohn
Jason and Heather
#
# However, the Glock has some design features which make it
# especially susceptible to catastrophic failure...
#
# <> The fire control system does not reset /retract the tip of
# the firing pin/striker until the latter part of the forward
# travel of the slide.
given. how does this contribute to catastrophic failure?
# <> It will fire out of battery.
i have had the slide fail to close a few times. (reloaded ammo with
bulged cases. won't use THAT supplier again.) i did notice that in
those cases the slide and barrel were completely unlocked. (you could
see the brass through the ejection port.) in doing my own "out of
battery" dry fire tests, i've found that it won't fire at that point,
but will fire at the point where the slide and barrel are locked,
but not 100% forward. this is still potentially dangerous, since
it reduces the time given for pressure to subside.
what conditions would allow the slide and barrel to lock, but prevent
the slide from moving all the way home? i would like to know what to
look out for.
has Glock indicated that they might redesign the disconnector?
it appears that there is some slack space before it engages the
ramp on the inside of the slide. (bad ascii warning.)
free space
|
v
_________ front of slide this way
__U_/ \_____ as seen from below
seems to me you could use a slightly larger disconnector tang to make
it engage the ramp a little quicker. or simply mill the ramp a few
.001" wider.
_________
__UU/ \_____
or
__________
__U/ \_____
might work.
jason
--
"...my fellow neuronaughts were all linked up, plugged
in, speed crazed, and increasing the bandwith of love."
CARL...@UMN.MR.EDU