Valmet M-76 in .308W
ra...@ihlpm.att.com
American Rifleman tested it a couple of years back. It even had a folding
stock.
There was also the Valmet M-78, a heavy barrel version that was a clone
of the SAW AK-47, the RPK. It came in 5.56mm, 7.62 x 39, and 7.62mm NATO
versions.
Bumble Bee in CA sold the 7.62mm NATO version. It had a fixed stock.
Odin International during the Reagan years imported all three calibers;
they had a stamped sheet metal receiver. Some were even imported with
a side-folding wood stock.
Eventually, Bumble Bee sold the Valmet M-78A2, which switched to a forged
metal receiver.
They came with tritium capsules on both the front and rare sights.
The IMI Galil which is also based on the forged Valmet M-76 receiver
was also produced in a 7.62mm NATO version.
Also, for a short time Yugoslavia imported semi-auto version of their
RPK clone in 7.62mm NATO. It had colling fins on the barrel as well
as a quick change facility for it.
Too bad El Presidente' George Herbert Walker Bush decided to give give
Americans the proverbial stab-in-the-back with the import ban...
Panu Wilska
#Yes, there was a version of the Valmet AK-47 clone chambered for 7.62mm NATO;
#American Rifleman tested it a couple of years back. It even had a folding
#stock.
#There was also the Valmet M-78, a heavy barrel version that was a clone
#of the SAW AK-47, the RPK. It came in 5.56mm, 7.62 x 39, and 7.62mm NATO
#versions.
#Bumble Bee in CA sold the 7.62mm NATO version. It had a fixed stock.
#Odin International during the Reagan years imported all three calibers;
#they had a stamped sheet metal receiver. Some were even imported with
#a side-folding wood stock.
#Eventually, Bumble Bee sold the Valmet M-78A2, which switched to a forged
#metal receiver.
#They came with tritium capsules on both the front and rare sights.
#The IMI Galil which is also based on the forged Valmet M-76 receiver
#was also produced in a 7.62mm NATO version.
Actually VALMET rifles exist in many different variations. The export
models have been mostly M76,M78 and M86. There are also different versions
of each model.
The basic model is M62, the assault rifle of Finnish military. It is
based on AK-47, but has many improved features. The designer of AK-47
once said "you Finns have not just copied the idea of AK-47, but you
are only ones who have improved it cleverly". Valmets have been produced
in following calibers: 7.62x39, .308 WIN and .223 NATO. The military
uses 7.62x39.
M76 was originally sporter (semi-automatic) version of M62, looking
just the same. For export models and experimental purposes many
long-barreled and also wood-stocked variations were developed. Those
are mostly what you can find in U.S.
The Valmet rifles have originally milled frame and internals. For
M76 series some "plate-frame" (don't know right word) guns were
produced. It was soon discovered that the quality and accuracy suffered
if the frame was not milled. So, buy only milled Valmets.
Most manufacturers like Russians and Chinese use plate frames, but
they are not even close to the quality.
Valmet M86 is .308 version of M62, looking out just the same. .308
models were made also from M76, but not in large scale.
Mounting scope on Valmet may be complicated, but a small company
in Finland has specialiced in that question. As the Valmet has no
scope mount and fitting scope on the top is not recommended a
variety of side-mounted scopes have been developed. The manufacturer
still uses scopes mounted on top, but as Valmet owners know, that is
not wise as the top "lives" or is "not stabile".
Those special mounts however place scope on the middle-line and they
still allow to use Valmet's normal sights AT THE SAME TIME as scope
if shooter decides not to aim through scope. That company also produces
reflex-silencers for all Valmet models and by inquiry for any gun that
exists. For more information, send me a mail.
I have the original military version M62, fitted with Russian
PSO-2 4x36 sniper scope (adopted from Dragunov) and reflex-sound-supressor.
The scope has performed exellently, best results have been 4 cm circle
for 10 shots at 150 metres. I think that is enough for any self-loading
weapon. The silencer works also as a compensator and allows accurate
firing and aiming through scope even on full-autofire bursts. The frame
has also rubber buffers at the rear to pervent noise and recoil.
The thing I like most in Valmet is the unbelieveable reliability. If the
gun jams, the reason can paractically be only damaged magazine. The origi-
nal magazines are not the best, I recommend to use Russian AK-47 magazines
as they fit to 7.62x39 model.
I Hope this game something,
Panu Wilska
Finland
ra...@ihlpm.att.com
|models have been mostly M76,M78 and M86. There are also different versions
|of each model.
There was even a bullpup model, the M-82 that was availible in
the USA.
|The basic model is M62, the assault rifle of Finnish military. It is
|based on AK-47, but has many improved features. The designer of AK-47
|once said "you Finns have not just copied the idea of AK-47, but you
|are only ones who have improved it cleverly".
The original tube-style grip doesn't look like it is very comfortible,
but the plastic grips of the last M-78s imported into the USA feel
better than the pistol grip on the HK-91.
|M76 was originally sporter (semi-automatic) version of M62, looking
|just the same. For export models and experimental purposes many
|long-barreled and also wood-stocked variations were developed. Those
|are mostly what you can find in U.S.
Interarms used to import a version with an odd-looking plastic
stock.
|The Valmet rifles have originally milled frame and internals. For
|M76 series some "plate-frame" (don't know right word) guns were
|produced. It was soon discovered that the quality and accuracy suffered
|if the frame was not milled.
"plate-frame" appears to be what is called a "stamped metal receiver."
| So, buy only milled Valmets.
The stamped metal Valmets were the only ones availible in the US for
years and years.
|Most manufacturers like Russians and Chinese use plate frames, but
|they are not even close to the quality.
However, for a couple of years Valmet sold a sniper rifle version
of the Valmet M-78 in at least two calibers (7.62 x 39 and 7.62mm NATO)
that had a skeletonized pistol grip - stock assembly just like the
Soviet SVD rifle. Since both the SVD and M-78 have a stamped metal
receiver, just how accurate are these particular sniper rifles?
|Valmet M86 is .308 version of M62, looking out just the same. .308
|models were made also from M76, but not in large scale.
Only because of Bush; I bet you could sell every single Valmet
M86 from the factory in the US if you got them through customs...
|That company also produces
|reflex-silencers for all Valmet models and by inquiry for any gun that
|exists. For more information, send me a mail.
(a) What is a "reflex-silencer?" [Vaima? (sp)]
(b) Since Valmet assault rifles have a flash suppressor pinned in
place, how is the silencer attached onto the barrel?
|The silencer works also as a compensator and allows accurate
|firing and aiming through scope even on full-autofire bursts. The frame
|has also rubber buffers at the rear to pervent noise and recoil.
Please explain this rubber buffer as there is none on Valmet M-78's
imported into the US.
|The thing I like most in Valmet is the unbelieveable reliability. If the
|gun jams, the reason can paractically be only damaged magazine. The origi-
|nal magazines are not the best, I recommend to use Russian AK-47 magazines
|as they fit to 7.62x39 model.
The 7.62mm NATO models originally used modified Heckler & Koch G-3
magazines that were milled down on the sides to reduce the width and
attachment pieces welded onto the front and back. They seemed to be
of Swedish manufacture originally, but I could be mistaken...
Panu Kolju
...
#There was even a bullpup model, the M-82 that was availible in
#the USA.
Yes, I have seen pictures of this one too, not so many were made and common
caliber was .223 . "Plastic" body/frame, our paratroopers used to test a model
close to this, but thanks to this "big" front sight some paratroopers who test
jumped with it lost few teeth it was abandoned and civil verson was developed
and mostly sold abroad to US atleast, mostly in semiauto shape.
#|The basic model is M62, the assault rifle of Finnish military. It is
#|based on AK-47, but has many improved features. The designer of AK-47
#|once said "you Finns have not just copied the idea of AK-47, but you
#|are only ones who have improved it cleverly".
#The original tube-style grip doesn't look like it is very comfortible,
#but the plastic grips of the last M-78s imported into the USA feel
#better than the pistol grip on the HK-91.
...Tube stock is easy to manufacture but I agree partly with You, but it's
also pretty easy to use tube stock too. Tube, plastic and wood are been used
in USA sold models.
#|M76 was originally sporter (semi-automatic) version of M62, looking
#|just the same. For export models and experimental purposes many
#|long-barreled and also wood-stocked variations were developed. Those
#|are mostly what you can find in U.S.
#Interarms used to import a version with an odd-looking plastic
#stock.
True...
#|The Valmet rifles have originally milled frame and internals. For
#|M76 series some "plate-frame" (don't know right word) guns were
#|produced. It was soon discovered that the quality and accuracy suffered
#|if the frame was not milled.
#"plate-frame" appears to be what is called a "stamped metal receiver."
# So, buy only milled Valmets.
Milled receiver can stand much heavier treatment than stamped receiver
RKs = ARs expecially in military use.
#The stamped metal Valmets were the only ones availible in the US for
#years and years.
I think most of the early 70's models were made of stamped receivers.
#|Most manufacturers like Russians and Chinese use plate frames, but
#|they are not even close to the quality.
True...
#However, for a couple of years Valmet sold a sniper rifle version
#of the Valmet M-78 in at least two calibers (7.62 x 39 and 7.62mm NATO)
#that had a skeletonized pistol grip - stock assembly just like the
#Soviet SVD rifle. Since both the SVD and M-78 have a stamped metal
#receiver, just how accurate are these particular sniper rifles?
You mean the front grip, right? You caqn instal a new currently manufactured
grip to it if You like to, it's kind of better looking, atleast to my eyes :).
I used both during my army service and think that the new grip is better than
the "holed" grip. Those holes were made to ease the cooling when shot a lot
with these guns. The new grip model has ventilation below and on top of the
grip and is better shaped.
I would dare to say it's as accurate as this type of gun can be, stamped
receiver models are, as far as I know, as good in civil use (no heavy
treatment) as it would be with milled receivers, but ofcourse milled is
stronger in heavy use and will be a choise "for ever use".
Finnish army abandoned the use of stamped receiver models after a test serie
was tested in service use and many of them were found not to stand the heavy
service without more or less faults with the receiver, but again I say this is
the case in with really heavy use with these guns.
#|Valmet M86 is .308 version of M62, looking out just the same. .308
#|models were made also from M76, but not in large scale.
#Only because of Bush; I bet you could sell every single Valmet
#M86 from the factory in the US if you got them through customs...
I bet Sako/Valmet is crying loud for this reason and because their "hunter"
model for hunting/plinking purposes that is based to RK 62/AK-47 lock
mechanism will most likely be banned too now too...
#|That company also produces
#|reflex-silencers for all Valmet models and by inquiry for any gun that
#|exists. For more information, send me a mail.
#(a) What is a "reflex-silencer?" [Vaima? (sp)]
Well, Panu Wilska can explain this more detailed, but it's not Vaime's
silencer, but BR-product's silencer. I shot a Uzi in full auto with this and
the sound of the gun is somewhat "neat" like beas having quiet consert:
"Hrrrrrrrrrrrrr, click" :).
#(b) Since Valmet assault rifles have a flash suppressor pinned in
#place, how is the silencer attached onto the barrel?
Again the other Panu will probably explain this more closely, but the pin is
removed and I think there is screws on the barrel and you just remove the
flash subressor and turn the silencer on, right Panu W.?
#|The silencer works also as a compensator and allows accurate
#|firing and aiming through scope even on full-autofire bursts. The frame
#|has also rubber buffers at the rear to pervent noise and recoil.
#Please explain this rubber buffer as there is none on Valmet M-78's
#imported into the US.
Rubber buffers are used in eg. silenced assault rifles to reduce the locks
noice in shooting, it's not a standard part of the gun.
#|The thing I like most in Valmet is the unbelieveable reliability. If the
#|gun jams, the reason can paractically be only damaged magazine. The origi-
#|nal magazines are not the best, I recommend to use Russian AK-47 magazines
#|as they fit to 7.62x39 model.
I agree.
#The 7.62mm NATO models originally used modified Heckler & Koch G-3
#magazines that were milled down on the sides to reduce the width and
#attachment pieces welded onto the front and back. They seemed to be
#of Swedish manufacture originally, but I could be mistaken...
I wonder if they were Swedish made, I doub it, but can't deny it neather...
Panu Kolju
--
**************** University of Lappeenranta, Finland = Suomi
* Panu Kolju * "Too bad that the good persons usually are
* ko...@lut.fi * the most silent ones these days..."
**************** Alas vihre{ ekofasismi!!
Panu Wilska
#|Actually VALMET rifles exist in many different variations. The export
#|models have been mostly M76,M78 and M86. There are also different versions
#|of each model.
#There was even a bullpup model, the M-82 that was availible in
#the USA.
I know that, I've test-fired it. Here it was sold only in WERY limited
scale.
#|The basic model is M62, the assault rifle of Finnish military. It is
#|based on AK-47, but has many improved features. The designer of AK-47
#|once said "you Finns have not just copied the idea of AK-47, but you
#|are only ones who have improved it cleverly".
#The original tube-style grip doesn't look like it is very comfortible,
#but the plastic grips of the last M-78s imported into the USA feel
#better than the pistol grip on the HK-91.
#|M76 was originally sporter (semi-automatic) version of M62, looking
#|just the same. For export models and experimental purposes many
#|long-barreled and also wood-stocked variations were developed. Those
#|are mostly what you can find in U.S.
#Interarms used to import a version with an odd-looking plastic
#stock.
#|The Valmet rifles have originally milled frame and internals. For
#|M76 series some "plate-frame" (don't know right word) guns were
#|produced. It was soon discovered that the quality and accuracy suffered
#|if the frame was not milled.
#"plate-frame" appears to be what is called a "stamped metal receiver."
#| So, buy only milled Valmets.
#The stamped metal Valmets were the only ones availible in the US for
#years and years.
Sounds really strange, how can they be so stupid at VALMET?
#|Most manufacturers like Russians and Chinese use plate frames, but
#|they are not even close to the quality.
#However, for a couple of years Valmet sold a sniper rifle version
#of the Valmet M-78 in at least two calibers (7.62 x 39 and 7.62mm NATO)
#that had a skeletonized pistol grip - stock assembly just like the
#Soviet SVD rifle. Since both the SVD and M-78 have a stamped metal
#receiver, just how accurate are these particular sniper rifles?
They are quite qood, but the stamped frames so not last so long as
milled ones, the milled ones are in fact "immortal". Sniper versions
longer barrel correct much of what stamped frame loses.
#|Valmet M86 is .308 version of M62, looking out just the same. .308
#|models were made also from M76, but not in large scale.
#Only because of Bush; I bet you could sell every single Valmet
#M86 from the factory in the US if you got them through customs...
#|That company also produces
#|reflex-silencers for all Valmet models and by inquiry for any gun that
#|exists. For more information, send me a mail.
#(a) What is a "reflex-silencer?" [Vaima? (sp)]
Reflex silencers circulate exhaust-gases reducing so even supersonic noise.
they cover the barrel for half of silencers leght, the part wich is in
front of barrel is like "normal2 silencer, the rear part is the gas
circulating space.
#(b) Since Valmet assault rifles have a flash suppressor pinned in
#place, how is the silencer attached onto the barrel?
The flash supressor is removed, you can remove it by heating it over
cosane fire and insulator plate over the flame and when the glue
melts hamnmer the lock-pin away. Then screw it of. There you have
even screws for silencer. :)
#|The silencer works also as a compensator and allows accurate
#|firing and aiming through scope even on full-autofire bursts. The frame
#|has also rubber buffers at the rear to pervent noise and recoil.
#Please explain this rubber buffer as there is none on Valmet M-78's
#imported into the US.
the rubber buffer is not standard equipment, it is an invention from
same guy who developed those scope-mounts and silecers. It is is
u-shaped (in a way) and placed uder the recoil-spring in the rear end
of the frame. It stops the bolt hitting the rear.
#|The thing I like most in Valmet is the unbelieveable reliability. If the
#|gun jams, the reason can paractically be only damaged magazine. The origi-
#|nal magazines are not the best, I recommend to use Russian AK-47 magazines
#|as they fit to 7.62x39 model.
#The 7.62mm NATO models originally used modified Heckler & Koch G-3
#magazines that were milled down on the sides to reduce the width and
#attachment pieces welded onto the front and back. They seemed to be
#of Swedish manufacture originally, but I could be mistaken...
I still recommedn AK-47 magazines
Panu
Lahtinen Antti Jussi
# (a) What is a "reflex-silencer?"
The reflex silencer is a tubular one-chambered silencer that
basicly divies the powder gases into two separate flows, and
turns these flows to collide with each other within the chamber.
This mostly eliminates the muzzle blast and flash, but does not
affect the velocity of the bullet.
When firing a gun with reflex silencer, one can hear only the noise
of firing atction and the sonic crack of the bullet.
Reflex silencer is manufactured by "Vaime" in Finland. Vaime also
manufactures variuos conventional multi-chambered silencers.
# (b) Since Valmet assault rifles have a flash suppressor pinned in
# place, how id the silencer attached onto the barrel?
The pin is removed, and the flash suppressor is unscrewed and
removed. The silencer uses the same thread as flas suppressor,
and can be simply screwed in place.
Apparently there was a test model of the reflex silencer that
fitted _over_ the flash suppressor. (unconfirmed)
# The orginal tube-style grip doesn't look like it is very comfortable,
# but the plastic grips of the last M-78 imported into the USA feel
# better than the pistol grip on the HK-91.
The Finnish Defence Forces have upgraded the M-62 handgrips
(both pistol and foregrip) several times, and the present plastic
models are very good. Since the manufacture of assault rifles
moved from Valmet to Sako, you could ask Sako about the present
upgrades (and does they fit into M-78).
# There was even a bullpup model, the M-82 that was available in the USA.
The M-82 was rejected by military because some basic faults.
1) cocking handle was awarkward and caused injuries
2) ejection port flung the spent cases to the faces of left-
handed users
3) the iron sights were not very good
There is rumours of improved version of M-82, but I havn't seen
the weapon yet.
# Please explain this rubber buffer as there is none on Valmet M-78's
# imported into the US.
At least two different buffers exists, bolt buffer and brass buffer.
Bolt buffer is placed inside the frame, and it prevents the bolt
carrier from making noise when carrier is in the rearmost postion.
Brass buffer fits in the rear side of ejection port, and it shields
the shell casings from denting when they are ejected. (I have a
Valmet Petra .30-06, and the brass buffer is a must for a reloader.)
--
Antti Lahtinen : Justice is Only a Whish of a Weak
al7...@cs.tut.fi :
Mika Jalava
Lahtinen Antti Jussi <al7...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi> wrote:
# Reflex silencer is manufactured by "Vaime" in Finland. Vaime also
# manufactures variuos conventional multi-chambered silencers.
I believe BR-tuote (BR-product) has the patent on Reflex type
silencers. Maybe Vaime also makes them, I'm not sure.
# Apparently there was a test model of the reflex silencer that
# fitted _over_ the flash suppressor. (unconfirmed)
At least it would be much bulkier, as the flash suppressor is rather
big. On the plus side, you could make a kind of bayonet locking
mechanism that would make it very quick to install/remove the
silencer. I don't see why one should need that option, though, as the
Reflex silencer makes the gun only a bit over 2 inches longer than it
is with the flash suppressor (about half of the silencer is around the
barrel, behind the muzzle).
BTW, does BR-tuote make the Reflex (TX4 or TX8?) also for Valmets in
.223?
Mika