Mace vs Easy Off
Dave Goldstein
#
# In article <55...@mimsy.umd.edu> infmx!gr...@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell) writes:
# #In article <55...@mimsy.umd.edu> rpa...@Think.COM (Ralph Palmer) writes:
# ##Easy Off oven cleaner will probably blind the person if you get him in the eyes.
# ##It is basically Sodium Hydroxide and is real nasty stuff, enough to make you
# ##get a self cleaning oven.
# ##
I would not recommend this, most Easy Off products have Lye or similar and
I think it against Federal Law to use this kind of product for what you intend.
Dan Sorenson
(Dave Goldstein) writes:
## ##Easy Off oven cleaner will probably blind the person if you get him in the eyes.
## ##It is basically Sodium Hydroxide and is real nasty stuff
#I would not recommend this, most Easy Off products have Lye or similar and
#I think it against Federal Law to use this kind of product for what you
#intend.
It is quite possibly against Federal law to use this in such a manner,
but one might do well to remember that an improvised weapon is better than
no weapon at all, and that a jury tends to not punish those obviously
defending themselves. I would caution, however, that if you carry oven
cleaner as a weapon that you exercise all the restraint you would with a
loaded firearm. While not a "deadly" weapon, it is unlikely a jury would
look upon a newly-blind 17 year-old defendant the same way they might a
17 year-old mugger who was shot and lived.
While working on the farm in my youth, I often did chores for my
neighbors while they were gone. Soon, people I didn't know would ask me
to do their chores, and these people had dogs or other animals that didn't
know me. I found the "Mailman's Friend" worked well. This is a plant
sprayer filled with vinegar. It doesn't blind that I could tell in all
of my "animal testing," but it does cause incredible watering of the eyes
and a good burning sensation. Perhaps this might be an alternative? It
can also be kept in a plastic water pistol without hurting the plastic.
<Dan Sorenson, z1...@exnet.iastate.edu, vik...@iastate.edu, Dod #1066>
< Iowa State University and I have agreed to disagree on most things.>
< The problem with the Danegeld is that the Danes keep coming back. >
PAUL N. RITTER
In article <56...@mimsy.umd.edu>, vik...@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
#
# (Dave Goldstein) writes:
#
### ##Easy Off oven cleaner will probably blind the person if you get him in the
eyes.
### ##It is basically Sodium Hydroxide and is real nasty stuff
#
##I would not recommend this, most Easy Off products have Lye or similar and
##I think it against Federal Law to use this kind of product for what you
##intend.
#
# It is quite possibly against Federal law to use this in such a manner,
#but one might do well to remember that an improvised weapon is better than
#no weapon at all, and that a jury tends to not punish those obviously
#defending themselves. I would caution, however, that if you carry oven
#cleaner as a weapon that you exercise all the restraint you would with a
#loaded firearm. While not a "deadly" weapon, it is unlikely a jury would
#look upon a newly-blind 17 year-old defendant the same way they might a
#17 year-old mugger who was shot and lived.
#
# While working on the farm in my youth, I often did chores for my
#neighbors while they were gone. Soon, people I didn't know would ask me
#to do their chores, and these people had dogs or other animals that didn't
#know me. I found the "Mailman's Friend" worked well. This is a plant
#sprayer filled with vinegar. It doesn't blind that I could tell in all
#of my "animal testing," but it does cause incredible watering of the eyes
#and a good burning sensation. Perhaps this might be an alternative? It
#can also be kept in a plastic water pistol without hurting the plastic.
#
#<Dan Sorenson, z1...@exnet.iastate.edu, vik...@iastate.edu, Dod #1066>
#< Iowa State University and I have agreed to disagree on most things.>
#< The problem with the Danegeld is that the Danes keep coming back. >
#
I would als o suggest the small cans of hair spray. I know that the
companies are making cans small enough to stick in your pocket or purse.
You might also try different types of spray cologne or perfumes. Not only
will they temporarily(?) blind the attacker, but also make it easier to
identify them if caught.
Who knows, it might or might not work...Just a thought.
The Polymath
} I would als o suggest the small cans of hair spray. I know that the
} companies are making cans small enough to stick in your pocket or purse.
} You might also try different types of spray cologne or perfumes. Not only
} will they temporarily(?) blind the attacker, but also make it easier to
} identify them if caught.
} Who knows, it might or might not work...Just a thought.
You're going to trust your life to "Who knows, it might or might not work
..."?
In fact, hair spray won't work. I've seen it demonstrated. Think about
it. Millions of women spray themselves with that gunk daily. You think
the manufacturers are going to risk law suits or, worse, loss of market
share by making it painful?
Perfume and cologne usually contain a fair amount of alcohol, which may be
better than nothing. If it were the best I could do, I'd carry a spray
bottle of rubbing alcohol. (In fact, I once did. The cops who searched me
[a long story] didn't even ask what was in it).
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: holl...@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (310) 450-9111, x2483 No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA 90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
The Terminator
#it. Millions of women spray themselves with that gunk daily. You think
#the manufacturers are going to risk law suits or, worse, loss of market
#share by making it painful?
Hair spray alone won't do it, but how about hair spray and a cigarette lighter.
Put the lighter in front of the hairspray bottle spray to get the stream
started, and click the lighter. (I did this once; fun!) It's hard to commit
assault when your head's on fire. :-)
James P. Callison
# companies are making cans small enough to stick in your pocket or purse.
# You might also try different types of spray cologne or perfumes. Not only
# will they temporarily(?) blind the attacker, but also make it easier to
# identify them if caught.
If it doesn't, you could always pull out your trusty lighter and *POOF*
instant flame-thrower. With a side order of Crispy Perepetrator... :-)
Err...no, I prefer Original Recipie... ;-)
One of the (supposedly) better deterrents is this stuff which foams
up on contact with the perp's face, blinding him, whether he shuts his
eyes or not, and marks him with a dye which doesn't wash off.
James
James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator OU Law Library
Call...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu /\ JPCa...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
I don't know if it's "Voodoo Economics" or not,
but friends, we're in deep voodoo.
--Ross Perot
Masahiro Sayano
sy...@athena.mit.edu (The Terminator) writes:
#Hair spray alone won't do it, but how about hair spray and a cigarette lighter.
#Put the lighter in front of the hairspray bottle spray to get the stream
#started, and click the lighter. (I did this once; fun!) It's hard to commit
#assault when your head's on fire. :-)
I'm not sure that's such a good idea. You must be willing to take the
chance that the spray can has enough pressure in it so that the flames
don't go back into the can and burst the can. Could be messy. I don't
know what the likelihood of this is; I've only heard third-hand that a
local kid got burned a few years back doing something similar when the
can lost pressure.
MS
Jake Hodgson
James Callison asks about dye sprays.
There is one which has been aggressivly marketed in Canada called
'Dye Stop' (I would rather the perp 'dye NOW' but, I guess it's a
matter of taste :) which forms a green foaming mass of dye on the
perps face.
The catch? I saw it tested on a consumer show.
1) The effective range is about 10-15 ft
2) It took at least 10 seconds to start foaming
(not counting the 5 seconds or so it took the tester to hit the
manaquin with the obviously low pressure stream)
3) The human subject washed the stuff off his head, hands, arms in
about 3 minutes. (the stuff is supposed to stick for up to 7
DAYS)
Now, in fairness, it may be that the dye leaves a residue which
fluoresces under UV light or something, but it was no way near the 'permanent'
marker that the ads claim.
That asside, in the time it took to use the spray (hit target, foam
action) Mr. F.H. Lunatic (the F.H. is for Freaking Homicidal) could close
the distance, take away the can, bludgeon you to death with it, skin you,
and make a coat and he wouldn't even be marked for orderly disposal by the
constabulary as any dye could be washed away. I was not impressed, but then
again, I didn't excpect to be. The whole design philosophy of this product
is flawed.
I think you'd be farther ahead with a paper bag of fine black pepper
(honest constable, I was just on my way home to make Cajun pepper steak
when this goof jumped me...). It's still a poor replacement for a P7
full of HydraShocks, but I can't carry one legaly anyway so the point
is moot.
From what I have heard/read, the only really effective chem sprays are
either near fatal anyway, or based on capsicum oleoresin (sp?) in a fair
concentration (>5%). I also hear the cap sprays make pretty good popcorn
topping :). Of course, they're illegal here too, so I'm back to my bag
of pepper and my 'firm, purposeful stride'.
(BTW, I don't actually carry a bag of pepper.)
Warm Hearth!
Jake
Jake Hodgson____________________________________________________________
HODG...@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA | All skill is in vain when
Disclaimer: It must be my doing because | an angel pisses in the
THIS bunch won't take | touchhole of your musket.
responsibility for ANYTHING | -old German proverb
Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona
# Greetings!
#
# sy...@athena.mit.edu (The Terminator) writes:
#
# #Hair spray alone won't do it, but how about hair spray and a cigarette lighter.
# #Put the lighter in front of the hairspray bottle spray to get the stream
# #started, and click the lighter. (I did this once; fun!) It's hard to commit
# #assault when your head's on fire. :-)
#
# I'm not sure that's such a good idea. You must be willing to take the
# chance that the spray can has enough pressure in it so that the flames
# don't go back into the can and burst the can. Could be messy. I don't
# know what the likelihood of this is; I've only heard third-hand that a
# local kid got burned a few years back doing something similar when the
# can lost pressure.
#
DON'T DO THIS!
But, if you're gonna, supply the flame *before* spraying. The initial
cloud of spray can blow back onto your face before igintion, this may
well cause detonation of the cannister as the temperature will rise
quickly, and aerosol cannisters do not tolerate heat very well.
I don't think lack of pressure can allow the fire to ignite
within the cannister as there isn't any air inside (I don't think
there is, anyway). However, as the pressure lowers, the flame
(and the heat) gets closer to the cannister and once the cannister
gets hot enough (even nearly empty), ka-booom.
I must confess it was a lot of fun, though. Right-Guard seemed
to work exceptionally well - and you could carry it to school cuz
you could claim you were taking it to P.E. (Phys Ed) for use after
your shower. It really *is* amazing how fast a group of bullies
disappear with flame in their faces!
But, again I say
D O N ' T D O T H I S !
A child was injured recently here in Phoenix with a can of hair
spray and a lighter (blew back in his face).
P.S. Anybody know a good way to make a gas-station attendant *really*
nervous?? (We've had some fun with that one, too!)
--
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy. However, 4 out of 5 US murders are
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?" - Andrew Ford
gtephx!fo...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu OR !uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax!gtephx!forda
[MODERATOR: Okay, kids, I think the "mace versus easy off" topic has
pretty much run its course, don't you agree? I think any more on this
will get forwarded to rec.arts.kitchen .... Though one might be tempted
to observe that a Glock 21 is sufficently simply to use in self defense
that it could be labeled, umm, "easy off" ... (sorry) ]
John De Armond
#I'm not sure that's such a good idea. You must be willing to take the
#chance that the spray can has enough pressure in it so that the flames
#don't go back into the can and burst the can. Could be messy. I don't
#know what the likelihood of this is; I've only heard third-hand that a
#local kid got burned a few years back doing something similar when the
#can lost pressure.
Gad! Don't they teach ANY chemistry or physics at Caltech anymore?
Hint: Flames don't happen where there is no oxidizer. Such as the
inside of an aerosol can.
Back to the topic of chemicals and self-protection. I think we should
look again at the purpose of self-defence weapons. That is to stop
the immediate attack. Leaving the perp blinded, disabled or dead
is icing on the top but the stop is what protects. None of these
concoctions stand a chance.
I've splashed conc sulfuric acid in my eyes before. I spent a week
with bandages over my face as a result. Far from being stopped, I was
more than capable of dashing for the eyewash and activating it. If
this won't cause an incapacitating injury, what do you think a
little Easy-off or hair spray is going to do? That's right, NOTHING
except make the guy REAL MAD.
The worst and most painful thing I've ever had on my face is MACE. I
once MACE'd myself in order to determine if it was a credible defence
for my wife to use before she got ethusiastic about shooting. The
pain was almost unbearable but I WAS able to squeeze off a few
simulated shots at my imaginary target. Now if you're dead and the
perp is unarmed and MACE'd when the police arrive, he can claim that
he merely spoke to you and you overreacted and maced him. Fearing for
his life from such an unstable person, he killed you in self-defence.
Unless there are witnesses or other evidence, he might just get away
with it.
Pretty much the same situation with so-called stun guns. A stun gun
might incapacitate a small person but all it did to me was hurt and
make me mad. I've put one of these things in my wife's hands
and challenged her to put me down. She never has. If your never
allowed to put the thing against the perp, you don't have even a slight
chance. That convinced her to take the NRA training and get a gun.
Now I'm bigger than most at 6'7"/300 lbs but against that fact consider
an agressive perp, perhaps stoned or more likely drunk. The impaired
senses can easily make up for what I have in bulk. I'm not addressing
the casual perp right now. These types are by definition scared away
by any counter agression. The ones we carry self-defence weapons
for are the ones who are NOT deterred by counter agression.
When it comes down to this situation, there is only one sure way to
stop the perp and that is to physically disassemble his central
nervous system. That simply requires a gun. Nothing else will
reliably do the job. Torso shots are good and are the shots of first
choice but forward motion stops when the head explodes.
A rather morbid ryme used to make its rounds around the department when
I was a volunteer cop:
Two shots to the body and one to the head..
Before he hits the ground, you know he'd dead.
You ain't gonna do that with a can of oven cleaner!
John
--
John De Armond, WD4OQC | To teach is to learn twice.
Rapid Deployment System, Inc. |
Marietta, Ga | Gun control is hitting the shootoff chickens
j...@dixie.com |
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta? Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
[MODERATOR: Okay folks, really, let's put this one to rest....]