Flash fire at VA shooting range
Glenn S.
(that I know of) that lets you shoot AR-15's.
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/05/flash-fire-virginia-beach-shooting-range-injures-seven
Flash fire in Virginia Beach shooting range injures seven
By Patrick Wilson
The Virginian-Pilot
© May 11, 2008
Seven people were injured today — two critically — when a flash fire
started at an indoor shooting range in Virginia Beach, the fire
department said.
The fire started about 1:30 p.m. at A&P Arms' Lynnhaven Shooting
Range, 2664 Lishelle Place, said Battalion Chief Leon Dextradeur of
the Virginia Beach Fire Department.
Seven of the 15 people in the range at the time were injured, he said.
The two people in critical condition suffered from burns to their
faces and smoke inhalation, he said. They were taken to Sentara
Norfolk General Hospital. Two people with less serious injuries also
were taken to Sentara Norfolk.
Two other victims with less serious injuries were taken to Sentara
Virginia Beach General Hospital. Another victim did not want to go to
a hospital, Dextradeur said.
There are three shooting ranges in the facility. There was an
explosion at the end of range 3, Dextradeur said, which started a
flash fire that spread quickly toward people at the other end.
“It was a very rapid onset of fire,” he said.
The cause has not been determined. Authorities from the Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives are at the scene helping
with the investigation.
The fire was under control in about 30 minutes and was largely
contained to range 3, Dextradeur said.
More than 40 firefighters responded.
The manager of the shooting range declined to be interviewed.
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Herb Martin
"Glenn S." <Glen...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:g09cnn$8e9$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# Luckily, I missed it. A&P is the only indoor range in SE Virginia
# (that I know of) that lets you shoot AR-15's.
#
# http://hamptonroads.com/2008/05/flash-fire-virginia-beach-shooting-range-injures-seven
#
# Flash fire in Virginia Beach shooting range injures seven
#
# By Patrick Wilson
# The Virginian-Pilot
# Š May 11, 2008
#
# Seven people were injured today - two critically - when a flash fire
# started at an indoor shooting range in Virginia Beach, the fire
# department said.
No updates yet on causes, but apparently something similar blew out
a wall at the same range several years ago.
Dust explosion or "build up of gases/chemicals" were mentioned as
possible causes of the EARLIER incident.
Be interesting to hear the details of the actual cause.
Rex
Glenn S. wrote:
# Luckily, I missed it. A&P is the only indoor range in SE Virginia
# (that I know of) that lets you shoot AR-15's.
#
# http://hamptonroads.com/2008/05/flash-fire-virginia-beach-shooting-range-injures-seven
#
# Flash fire in Virginia Beach shooting range injures seven
#
# By Patrick Wilson
# The Virginian-Pilot
# © May 11, 2008
#
# Seven people were injured today — two critically — when a flash fire
# started at an indoor shooting range in Virginia Beach, the fire
# department said.
#
# The fire started about 1:30 p.m. at A&P Arms' Lynnhaven Shooting
# Range, 2664 Lishelle Place, said Battalion Chief Leon Dextradeur of
# the Virginia Beach Fire Department.
#
# Seven of the 15 people in the range at the time were injured, he said.
#
# The two people in critical condition suffered from burns to their
# faces and smoke inhalation, he said. They were taken to Sentara
# Norfolk General Hospital. Two people with less serious injuries also
# were taken to Sentara Norfolk.
#
# Two other victims with less serious injuries were taken to Sentara
# Virginia Beach General Hospital. Another victim did not want to go to
# a hospital, Dextradeur said.
#
# There are three shooting ranges in the facility. There was an
# explosion at the end of range 3, Dextradeur said, which started a
# flash fire that spread quickly toward people at the other end.
#
# “It was a very rapid onset of fire,” he said.
#
# The cause has not been determined. Authorities from the Bureau of
# Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives are at the scene helping
# with the investigation.
#
# The fire was under control in about 30 minutes and was largely
# contained to range 3, Dextradeur said.
#
# More than 40 firefighters responded.
#
# The manager of the shooting range declined to be interviewed.
Dennis Mickey
Herb Leong
Glenn S. <Glen...@cox.net> wrote:
#Luckily, I missed it. A&P is the only indoor range in SE Virginia
#(that I know of) that lets you shoot AR-15's.
#
#http://hamptonroads.com/2008/05/flash-fire-virginia-beach-shooting-range-injures-seven
#
#Flash fire in Virginia Beach shooting range injures seven
I've done a bit of end-of-day sweeping up at ranges and there can be a lot of
unburned powder in front of the line.
/herb
zxcvbob
# Wow! Any idea what could cause that?
Gunpowder on the floor. Perhaps unburned powder from thousands of .22
pistol shots that nobody ever swept up after? My bullseye league (95%
shooting .22's) sweeps up after every match and there's always lots of
powder on the floor.
Bob
Mk VII
coconut matting in front of the firing points that was not regularly
shaken.
R.L. Horn
wrote:
# Gunpowder on the floor. Perhaps unburned powder from thousands of .22
# pistol shots that nobody ever swept up after?
That was my thought. Back when it was relatively common for folks to set up
backyard ranges with "mufflers" (a length of insulation-lined drain pipe or
open-ended box or somesuch), the occasional fire was just taken for granted.
pyotr filipivich
(Herb Leong) wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 22:30:30 +0000 (UTC) in
rec.guns :
=In article <g09cnn$8e9$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>,
=Glenn S. <Glen...@cox.net> wrote:
=#Luckily, I missed it. A&P is the only indoor range in SE Virginia
=#(that I know of) that lets you shoot AR-15's.
=#
=#http://hamptonroads.com/2008/05/flash-fire-virginia-beach-shooting-range-injures-seven
=#
=#Flash fire in Virginia Beach shooting range injures seven
=
=I've done a bit of end-of-day sweeping up at ranges and there can be
a lot of
=unburned powder in front of the line.
Call me ignorant ("Hi Ignorant!") but how can you get unburned
powder, at a shooting range? Especially in such apparent quantities
that you can notice it when sweeping up?
I really don't know, and would like to buy a clue.
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. "
Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD
(A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)
Doug White
completely. This is especially true of handguns, 22's in particular.
The vast majority of 22 long rifle ammo is designed to work in rifle
barrels, and blows a lot of unburned powder out of a short barrel. Any
range that has a lot of shooting will accumulate considerable quantities
of unburned powder over time.
In addition to what gets blown out of the barrel, there can even be
unburned powder left in the cartridge case. I've cleaned a variety of
pistols where there were unburned powder flakes mixed in with the rest of
the fouling. Some powders & loads are much more prone to this than
others.
Doug White
jadel
Not all the powder in a charge burns when a cartridge is fired. The
unburned bits spew out in front of the muzzle. When thousands of
rounds are fired indoors, it adds up. Outdoors the wind blows it
away, but you can see the effect if you shoot over fresh snow.
J. Del Col
Don Bruder
ever made spits out at least SOME amount of unburned powder with every
round.
Maybe that means a single grain (like grain of sand, not weight) per
round for .22 or similar. Maybe for something like a .30-06 with "hot"
loads, it means as much as a hundred of those little grains. Or for
something in between, some other number. Regardless of exact numbers per
round, the powder that doesn't burn is subject to the same laws of
physics as the bullet that goes downrange when you pull the trigger.
It's gotta go SOMEWHERE, and that somewhere is the floor.
Now fire off a whole bunch of rounds, each one of them contributing its
tiny amount of unburned powder...
One grain of sand doesn't make a beach. But a few million grains of sand
is getting started on the idea. Ever sweep a tiled floor that looks
relatively clean? But when you get done sweeping, I bet that you manage
to pile up a quarter cup or more of sand in your typical 200 square foot
kitchen...
Same thing for powder at the range. You may not be able to see it, but
it's there. Sweep the floor, and you'll find yourself a surprising pile
of powder. Drop a lit match on it, or otherwise give it an excuse, and
you damn-well better believe that it's gonna go "fwoosh!"
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Jim
are just too short.
Gunny_2008
What they said is true. If there is more powder in the cartridge than can
be burned before the bullet exits the barrel, it just gets blown out the
muzzle. Some burns up in mid-air, giving a nice flash, but a lot of it just
falls to the floor. Multiply the small amount by the thousands of rounds
fired in a day and even more over several days. I used to sweep up at an
indoor Army range, with a nice smooth concrete floor, back in the early
70's. You normally couldn't even see the powder on the floor because it
was spread out so evenly and finely, like dust. If you sweep up at the end
of a busy firing day, you end up with quite a pile of soot and powder. If
you believe it's just dust, dump it out somewhere safe and throw a cigarette
butt on it from a safe distance. Watch the pretty fireball. LOL Now, if
you don't sweep up and let it go for several days or weeks there would be
quite a collection and all it would take is a spark to set it off. That
sucker would burn hot and fast. I'll bet that's what happened, unless the
fire marshall finds another solution, like frayed wires or a busted gas
line.
Knut Piwonski
pyotr>but how can you get unburned
pyotr>powder, at a shooting range?
Easy, by not completely burning
the powder in cartridge/barrel.
e.g.
How´s a .22lr round to know
whether it will be fired by a handgun?
After a box of 50 or 100 through a pistol,
lot´s of yellow stuff (unburnt or only partially
burnt powder) will remain on the floor,
2-3m from the muzzle.
kind regards
Knut Piwonski
--
- to reply please use fulllastnamedotfirstoffirstnameatarcordotde -
Omelet
gwh...@alum.mit.edu (Doug White) wrote:
# Contrary to popular opinion, most firearms don't burn the powder
# completely. This is especially true of handguns, 22's in particular.
# The vast majority of 22 long rifle ammo is designed to work in rifle
# barrels, and blows a lot of unburned powder out of a short barrel. Any
# range that has a lot of shooting will accumulate considerable quantities
# of unburned powder over time.
#
# In addition to what gets blown out of the barrel, there can even be
# unburned powder left in the cartridge case. I've cleaned a variety of
# pistols where there were unburned powder flakes mixed in with the rest of
# the fouling. Some powders & loads are much more prone to this than
# others.
#
# Doug White
..22 LR in some guns being some of the worst.
I've gotten powder flakes in my face when firing my IJ .22.
I've learned to go ahead and wear safety glasses over my regular glasses.
--
Peace! Om
"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein
pyotr filipivich
<pi...@arcor.de> wrote on Wed, 14 May 2008 12:33:31 +0000 (UTC) in
rec.guns :
=Hello!
=pyotr>but how can you get unburned
=pyotr>powder, at a shooting range?
=
=Easy, by not completely burning
=the powder in cartridge/barrel.
LOL - well, duh! (I'm laughing at myself.)
Thanks for the answers. Just another day I find something to make
me say "Well now, that's different."
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
The two oldest cliches in the book are "The Good Old Days were
better." and "After all, these are Modern TImes."
Stuart Wheaton
#
# One grain of sand doesn't make a beach. But a few million grains of sand
# is getting started on the idea. Ever sweep a tiled floor that looks
# relatively clean? But when you get done sweeping, I bet that you manage
# to pile up a quarter cup or more of sand in your typical 200 square foot
# kitchen...
#
# Same thing for powder at the range. You may not be able to see it, but
# it's there. Sweep the floor, and you'll find yourself a surprising pile
# of powder. Drop a lit match on it, or otherwise give it an excuse, and
# you damn-well better believe that it's gonna go "fwoosh!"
#
Add to this that finely ground particles of metal are also capable of
burning quite well, and the shavings and droplets of lead and copper
from passing through the barrel end up in the same place as all the
unburned powder.
Stuart
.