Does anybody currently manufacture DA/SA 10MM auto??

[john]

Guess I'm being stubborn about my next handgun purchase. I've decided
to go with the 10MM cartridge but I want a full, possibly medium frame
double action/single action auto. So far I have not turned up anything
currently being manufactured.

There was an Outdoor Sportsman's Expo here in Phoenix. I had the
opportunity to shoot numerous handguns and calibers. Glock, Ruger,
S&W, Savage, Beretta and a couple I likely forgotten had booths set up
at the shooting range. A few bucks to cover the cost of ammo, the
public got to shoot anything the manufactures brought with them. I
felt like a kid with a dollar in his pocket at a candy store. My
biggest disappointment was the S&W Governor and my favorite was the
Beretta PX. Far as I'm concerned the 410 revolvers are a joke but I
loved S&W's lightweight Scandium frame. Two delightful surprises were
the economically priced Savage Axis rifle and Ruger's SR 9 and 40.
Both are well worth the low cost. Handling and shooting a few of the
Classic series S&W revolvers had me wishing I could hit the lottery.

I'm not trying to open up a can of worms but I don't particularly care
for Glocks but they had the only 10MM at the expo. At Glock's booth I
shot a sub-compact 9MM, medium frame 45ACP then the full sized 10MM.
The 10 felt like love at first sight after shooting it. The 10MM was
dead on accurate, near perfect fit for my hand and the felt recoil was
less than the snappy feeling sub-compact 9MM. With the near magnum
velocity of the 10MM I'm sold on it. Sorry I don't know Glock model or
generation numbers.

Guess I'm showing my age but I'm not fond of Tupperware frames but I'm
really stubborn about not having a manual safety. Save the flames!! I
know how safe the Glocks are but it is me I'm worried about. The one
and only time in my life I was forced to point a gun at a bad guy set
on robbing (or worse) me and my wife. I had my 45 pointed at him with
my finger on the trigger and thumb on the engaged safety lever. In all
honesty I was scared shootless. If I ever find myself in a similar
confrontation, in fear of my and/or wife's well being. I don't know if
I would follow the #1 safety rule and keep my finger off of the
trigger till I'm ready to shoot. Shortly after the incident I went
back to carrying a revolver.

So if it is out there. I want a SA/DA 10MM auto, preferably but not
absolutely necessary, a metal frame but only if I can find one with a
manual safety lever as my next car gun. If such a gun exists I'd
really appreciate your recommendations.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Diogenes]

The Tanfoglio Witness line (imported by European American Armory) has
a wide selection of 10mm pistols in steel frame, polymer frame, full
size and compact. They also offer a number of competition variants in
their Elite series. I have a full size steel frame 10mm (with .45
conversion kit) and it has become my favorite full size belt gun..

Their website is http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

Catalog download is http://www.eaacorp.com/EAA2012Catalog.pdf .

You can usually find a number of Witnesses listed on Gunbroker.
----
Diogenes

[Martin Eastburn]

How about the trade name - .40 instead of the 10.
Martin

[Diogenes]

On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 23:07:23 +0000 (UTC), john <zivend...@yahoo.com>
wrote:


#SNIP<
#
#So if it is out there. I want a SA/DA 10MM auto, preferably but not
#absolutely necessary, a metal frame but only if I can find one with a
#manual safety lever as my next car gun. If such a gun exists I'd
#really appreciate your recommendations.

When I wasn't looking that damn gremlin put in the wrong home url for
EAA:

Correct one is http://www.eaacorp.com/

Also I forgot to mention that the Witness safety can be engaged with
the hammer at full cock, so you can carry it in Condition One just
like a 1911. Another big point in its favor.
----
Diogenes

[DJ]

I think that most if not all commercial 10mm is loaded exactly the same
as .40S&W, which is after all the shortened 10mm. Does anyone know of
any full power 10mm?
DJ

[Argent]

EAA Witness is your only choice, given your preferences. Unless you
can find a used S&W 1006.

[Steve W.]

Do you know what load you were shooting in the 10mm? I ask because the
.40 S&W is in the same range as the 10mm and the ammo is MUCH easier to
find in multiple types of loadings. They handle just about the same as
far as the recoil.

--
Steve W.

[Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley]

On Monday, April 2, 2012 3:43:29 AM UTC-6, DJ wrote:
# I think that most if not all commercial 10mm is loaded exactly the same
# as .40S&W, which is after all the shortened 10mm. Does anyone know of
# any full power 10mm?

Most .40S&W runs about 1,000fps and 400fpe. Most 10mm is only a hair more. HOWEVER, you can get full power 10mm with 1,350fps and 728fpe here:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=114

[pjlewis]

Hi Steve
try this cartage & gun to match.
The gun is a Ruger new model black hawk in 30 carbine.
I have one & wow it is always on target & has plenty of
power to spare. here is the stats.
Unique cartridge

Few cartridges are known by the name of the firearm that fires them, and the
M1’s fodder—the .30 Caliber carbine round, is one of them. The .30 caliber
carbine round is a true intermediate round, much larger than just about any
handgun round, while at the same time falling shorter than most rifle
rounds. Metrically it is around 7.62x32mm, just shorter than the classic
Russian 7.62x39mm used by the AK-47 and SKS carbines and as such usually
fires a lighter bullet. Ballistically the round with 110-grain bullet will
break 1900fps and generate 880-foot pound of energy. Compare that to the
vaunted .45ACP, which, even in its fastest loadings will generate around
600-foot pounds of energy and it is clear that the .30 carbine packs a heavy
punch when compared to handgun rounds.

When compared to tactical rifle rounds like the 7.62x39mm, which typically
delivers around 1500-foot pounds of energy, the carbine is outclassed.
However I’d like to think that the .30 carbine round is ok with that, as it’s
what it was designed for.

Caliber Foot Pounds Energy

357MAG 400~
30 Carbine 880~
7.62x39mm 1500~

See where the term ‘intermediate cartridge ‘comes from when describing the
..30 caliber carbine?

The round is impressive against soft targets and provides reliable and
controllable firepower. Recoil is mild in the carbine and it is often
referred to my firearms writers as “The Girlfriend Gun,” for their
popularity with the prettier of our species.


Paul J.

[Stanley Schaefer]

On Apr 2, 3:43=A0am, DJ <nospam2...@q.com> wrote:
# I think that most if not all commercial 10mm is loaded exactly the same
# as .40S&W, which is after all the shortened 10mm. Does anyone know of
# any full power 10mm?

# DJ
#
Yeah, the stuff out of my press...

You have to be pretty deep in the pocket to shoot much factory 10.
Even brass is up to over 30 cents each, when it can be found. The
local Sportsman's had one dusty box of 10mm on the shelf, think it was
a 180gr loading.

Glockish clones CAN be had with metal frames or you could build your
own. Lone Wolf supplies frames and slides. I've got 10mm and .45
barrels for my long slide, just needs a barrel, mag and recoil spring
change to swap calibers. So a 20L or 21L, depending.

Safety is in your head, not a flipper on the frame or slide. Some
folks are hard to convince, though. If you really want to go old
school, you can get a Smith 610, uses moon clips. No flipper on that,
either. DA/SA, too. Doesn't toss that expensive brass all over the
landscape.

Stan

[Shall not be infringed]

#
# Also I forgot to mention that the Witness safety can be engaged with
# the hammer at full cock, so you can carry it in Condition One just
# like a 1911. Another big point in its favor.

Providing that mechanical things never fail, I have to agree.

[Larry]

In article <jlbsbu$70m$1...@news.albasani.net>, lion...@consolidated.net
says...
#
# How about the trade name - .40 instead of the 10.
# Martin

Some people prefer the full power 10mm cartridge. The .40 was developed as a
reduced recoil load.

[Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley]

On Thursday, April 5, 2012 5:44:10 AM UTC-6, Larry Caldwell wrote:
# Some people prefer the full power 10mm cartridge. The .40 was developed as a
# reduced recoil load.

That is generally no longer the case - most 10mm ammo produced by the large ammo companies today produces virtually identical ballistics to the .40 ammo produced by the same companies.

Most .40S&W runs about 1,000fps and 400fpe. Most 10mm is only a hair more.

Picking 4 180gr loads at random from Federal's website:
AE10A 10mm 1030fps
P10HS1 10mm 1030fps
AE40R1 .40S&W 1000fps
P40HS1 .40S&W 1000fps

[cemo33]

Larry <lar...@peaksky.com> wrote:

# In article <jlbsbu$70m$1...@news.albasani.net>, lion...@consolidated.net
# says...
# #

# # How about the trade name - .40 instead of the 10.

# # Martin
#
# Some people prefer the full power 10mm cartridge. The .40 was developed
# as a reduced recoil load.

A humorous take on the .40: http://vintagepistols.com/40isbad.html

[RJM]

I have a S&W 1006 10mm, and I really like it. I know it's not made
anymore, but they're easy to get on gunbroker.com and gunsamerica.com.
It has basically the SA/DA that you want, adjustable sights,
stainless, etc.

[Mike Fontenot]

On 04/05/2012 03:56 PM, Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley wrote:
#
#
# [...] most 10mm ammo produced by the large ammo companies today produces virtually identical ballistics to the .40 ammo produced by the same companies.
#
# Most .40S&W runs about 1,000fps and 400fpe. Most 10mm is only a hair more.
#

BuffaloBore: 1350 ft/s, 782 ft-lbs, for 180gr
DoubleTap: 1305 ft/s, 756 ft-lbs, for 180gr.

--
Mike Fontenot

[noylj]

Get a Para LDA in .40S&W. Scrap the barrel and get a Bar-Sto 10mm Auto
barrel.
I only shoot my own reloads and my 10mm loads are no where close to .
40S&W (originally known as short and whimpy for a very good reason).

[Solaratov]

On Fri, 6 Apr 2012 14:15:06 +0000 (UTC), cemo33
<markd...@myf41rp01nt.net> wrote:

#Larry <lar...@peaksky.com> wrote:
#
## In article <jlbsbu$70m$1...@news.albasani.net>, lion...@consolidated.net
## says...
## #
## # How about the trade name - .40 instead of the 10.
## # Martin
##
## Some people prefer the full power 10mm cartridge. The .40 was developed
## as a reduced recoil load.
#
#A humorous take on the .40: http://vintagepistols.com/40isbad.html


Clever article, thanks for sharing!

S.

[Mike Fontenot]

On 04/06/2012 02:26 PM, Mike Fontenot wrote:
#

# BuffaloBore: 1350 ft/s, 782 ft-lbs, for 180gr

# DoubleTap: 1305 ft/s, 756 ft-lbs, for 180gr.
#

The above muzzle energies are incorrect ... BB has it wrong on their
box, and the DT number is wrong for two reasons: I calculated it from
the incorrect BB number, and I also did the calculation wrong. Here is
a correction:
____________________________________

I've noticed before that the muzzle velocity and muzzle energy quoted by
some manufacturers are sometimes not mutually consistent ... for some
given bullet weight, there is a direct relationship between velocity and
kinetic energy: if you specify one of them, the other quantity is
determined.

For example, my BuffaloBore 180 gr 10mm cartridges list (on the box)
1350 ft/s and 782 ft-lb. Those values aren't consistent. It's fairly
easy to show that the muzzle energy E, in ft-lb, is equal to

E = 2.22 M v v,

where M is the bullet weight in grains, and v is in thousands of feet
per second. So for v = 1.35 (BuffaloBore's quoted 180 grain muzzle
velocity, in thousands of feet per second), we get

E = (2.22) (180) (1.35) (1.35) = 728 ft-lb.

So apparently BuffaloBore accidentally interchanged the last two digits,
when they wrote 782 ft-lb on their box.

Using that same equation for 180gr DoubleTap's 1305 ft/s velocity, you
get 681 ft-lb (which agrees with what I've seen advertised).

Using 1300 ft/s velocity for Underwood's 180 gr cartridges, you get 675
ft-lb (which is also very close to their advertised 676 ft-lb).

[Petey]

Solaratov wrote:

# On Fri, 6 Apr 2012 14:15:06 +0000 (UTC), cemo33
# <markd...@myf41rp01nt.net> wrote:
# #

# #A humorous take on the .40: http://vintagepistols.com/40isbad.html

#
#
# Clever article, thanks for sharing!

And kind of ironic too with a silhouette of a Luger ("pussified" totally
unreliable with the least amount of fouling in it) pistol in the background.
;-)

[Larry]

In article <jlurbh$4d7$1...@news.albasani.net>, mlf...@comcast.net says...

# On 04/06/2012 02:26 PM, Mike Fontenot wrote:
# #
# # BuffaloBore: 1350 ft/s, 782 ft-lbs, for 180gr

# # DoubleTap: 1305 ft/s, 756 ft-lbs, for 180gr.
# #
#

# The above muzzle energies are incorrect ... BB has it wrong on their

# box, and the DT number is wrong for two reasons: I calculated it from
# the incorrect BB number, and I also did the calculation wrong. Here is
# a correction:

Out of curiosity, I looked up the .40 and 10mm data on Federal's web site.
For the 180 grain hydra-shock they claim about 1000/1030 fps and 400/425 ft-
lbs. respectively. Was the BuffaloBore data from a rifle barrel?

[Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley]

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:52:08 AM UTC-6, Larry Caldwell wrote:
# Was the BuffaloBore data from a rifle barrel?

No - Buffalo Bore specializes in producing full power ammunition. Their 10mm balistics are obtained from a Glock Model 20, a Colt Delta Elite, and a Para Ordinance 1911 with Nowlin 5 inch barrel. See

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=114

[Stanley Schaefer]

# Out of curiosity, I looked up the .40 and 10mm data on Federal's web site.

# For the 180 grain hydra-shock they claim about 1000/1030 fps and 400/425 ft-
# lbs. respectively. Was the BuffaloBore data from a rifle barrel?

Doesn't have to be, you can get BB's ballistics out of a handgun
barrel easily with reloads(or boutique ammo). The major US makers
have 10mm dialed waaay down. If you want a lot more zip, reload with
a Nosler 135 gr. There are published loads that can get that one up
into the 1600 fps area. Might be a little uncomfortable shooting the
higher-end loads with the metal-framed guns, flexi-frame Glocks are
pretty comfy, though.

Stan

[Mike Fontenot]

On 04/11/2012 03:52 AM, Larry wrote:
# In article<jlurbh$4d7$1...@news.albasani.net>, mlf...@comcast.net says...
#
# Out of curiosity, I looked up the .40 and 10mm data on Federal's web site.
# For the 180 grain hydra-shock they claim about 1000/1030 fps and 400/425 ft-
# lbs. respectively.

If you use that equation I gave, you get 399.6 ft-lb for 1000 ft/s, and
423.9 ft-lb for 1030 ft/s, so Federal's data was consistent. But their
10mm offering IS a fairly mild load, compared to BB, DT, or Underwood
... it DOES seem to be true that a lot of 10mm commercial offerings are
little if any hotter than .40S&W offerings.

#Was the BuffaloBore data from a rifle barrel?
#

They don't say (on their box). I suspect that it was for a full-size
1911 (5" barrel), but I'm just guessing. The relationship between
muzzle velocity and muzzle energy doesn't depend on barrel length,
though, or on any other variables (other than bullet weight). But of
course, velocity and energy increase quite a bit as the barrel length is
increased.

--
Mike Fontenot