Canadian SS109?

[Dave]

I wanted to confirm some details about the canadian equivalent of the
SS109 .223 mil spec ammo. The lot I saw did not have the green tip and
it was labeled "C77". Is this the 62 grain penetrator round? Thanks.

[Jeff Bryant]

Dave wrote:
#
# I wanted to confirm some details about the canadian equivalent of the
# SS109 .223 mil spec ammo. The lot I saw did not have the green tip and
# it was labeled "C77". Is this the 62 grain penetrator round? Thanks.

Yes it is. I sliced one lengthwise with my Moto Tool and the steel
penetrator is VERY HARD! You can not hacksaw through it--you have to
use a cutting wheel or something like it. I haven't tried it on steel
plate or thick wood, but that baby is going through lots of something
before it stops.

[bahn...@ij.net]

In article <6fbrqm$i...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,

Dave <mdi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
#
# I wanted to confirm some details about the canadian equivalent of the
# SS109 .223 mil spec ammo. The lot I saw did not have the green tip and
# it was labeled "C77". Is this the 62 grain penetrator round? Thanks.

#
#

Yup, the green tip is for the US M855 cartridge. It seems that the Canadian
armed forces don't use our color coding or even the came nomeclature! It's
like they're a whole seperate country or something! AFAIK the C77 round is
the Canadian SS109, equivialant to our M855. Look for the little NATO symbol
on the headstamp (a circle with crosshairs).

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

[Hodgson Todd]

I just happen to have a cross-sectioned C77 bullet sitting on my desk in a
mounting block. It definately has a moderately hard steel penetrator
ahead of the lead core. I can't remember the MicroVickers hardness number
(it was awhile ago that I did the test) but I do recall not being overly
impressed. It's hard, but it's not THAT hard (ie it ain't tungstun unless
they've gone and softened it up some). The mass was c.62 gr, but the
bullet was a little mangled when I massed it so it could have been on the
light side.

I think the lack of a green tip may be because we only have one ball round
and one tracer round so the ball round just 'goes natural'.

Warm Hearth!
Jake

Dave (mdi...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: I wanted to confirm some details about the canadian equivalent of the
: SS109 .223 mil spec ammo. The lot I saw did not have the green tip and
: it was labeled "C77". Is this the 62 grain penetrator round? Thanks.
:

[Lance M. Johnston]

Dave wrote in message <6fbrqm$i...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#I wanted to confirm some details about the Canadian equivalent of the
#SS109 .223 mil spec ammo. The lot I saw did not have the green tip and
#it was labeled "C77". Is this the 62 grain penetrator round? Thanks.

Yup! Hold a magnet to it.

--
Every gun owner MUST read "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross
Follow this to the amazon.com bookstore and get a copy for around $20.00
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1888118040/1324-8534431-653301

[Rod Regier]

In article <6fduda$o...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, bahn...@ij.net writes:

[snip]

# Yup, the green tip is for the US M855 cartridge. It seems that the Canadian

# armed forces don't use our color coding or even the came nomeclature! It's
# like they're a whole seperate country or something! AFAIK the C77 round is
# the Canadian SS109, equivialant to our M855. Look for the little NATO symbol
# on the headstamp (a circle with crosshairs).

Each bureaucracy believes it has the best system :-)

The C77 round (which is 5.56 NATO compliant) was the first issue
5.56 NATO ammunition in the Canadian supply system, so there was
no need for color-coding.

(For the same reason that the M193 cartridge, being the first
of that class in the US supply system, was not color coded).

The Canadian C7 (M16A2 equiv), C8 (M16A2 shorty equiv) and
C9 (M249 equiv) rifles and SAW's have always had the
fast-twist barrels.

[m. a. mallini]

Well, I have some SS109 rounds from Portugal and Israel, and in spite of the
fact that both are "whole separate countries", they are both marked with a green
tip. Go figure.

Live Long and Prosper!

jay

--
----------------------------------------------------------
Death (or at least silence) to trolls!
----------------------------------------------------------
Does It Really Happen? .... It Can Happen.
----------------------------------------------------------

bahn...@ij.net wrote in message <6fduda$o...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#In article <6fbrqm$i...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,
# Dave <mdi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
##
## I wanted to confirm some details about the canadian equivalent of the
## SS109 .223 mil spec ammo. The lot I saw did not have the green tip and
## it was labeled "C77". Is this the 62 grain penetrator round? Thanks.
##
##
#
#Yup, the green tip is for the US M855 cartridge. It seems that the Canadian
#armed forces don't use our color coding or even the came nomeclature! It's
#like they're a whole seperate country or something! AFAIK the C77 round is
#the Canadian SS109, equivialant to our M855. Look for the little NATO symbol
#on the headstamp (a circle with crosshairs).
#
#-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
#http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
#

[Joseph D. Whittemore III]

In article <6fbrqm$i...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, mdi...@ix.netcom.com says...
#
#I wanted to confirm some details about the canadian equivalent of the
#SS109 .223 mil spec ammo. The lot I saw did not have the green tip and
#it was labeled "C77". Is this the 62 grain penetrator round? Thanks.
#

Should be. Canada never used anything other than the steel core in .223
so they never needed to color code the tips to distinguish between 55gr
ball and 62gr SteelCore

A magnet will attract the head of any SteelCore .223

[Steve Podleski]

Jeff Bryant wrote:
I haven't tried it on steel

# plate or thick wood, but that baby is going through lots of something
# before it stops.

I've been told that the penetrator can go through APC armour.

--
steve podleski
Everett, WA

[CLINTON L Crafton Jr]

Steve Podleski <sdp...@romulus.ca.boeing.com> writes:

#I've been told that the penetrator can go through APC armour.

You were told wrong.

[Robert Schommer]

Steve Podleski wrote:
#
# Jeff Bryant wrote:
# I haven't tried it on steel
# # plate or thick wood, but that baby is going through lots of something
# # before it stops.
#
# I've been told that the penetrator can go through APC armour.
#
# --
# steve podleski
# Everett, WA

Hi Group,
I was at a gun show over the weekend and saw a target plate of steel,
about 1/2" thick. .300 Mag FMJ rounds went right through (nice clean
holes) while SS109's only got about 2/3 the way through (with a fairly
large craters). I would think SS109's would not have any trouble with
3/8" steel plating.
-Rob

[Gary Chambers]

Hodgson Todd <hodg...@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote:
: I just happen to have a cross-sectioned C77 bullet sitting on my desk in a

: mounting block. It definately has a moderately hard steel penetrator
: ahead of the lead core. I can't remember the MicroVickers hardness number

Just for info, I have mounted one of these in epoxy
bakelite and sectioned and polished it for display. A quick test of
hardness, if memory serves, gave a HRC hardness of 47. The US equivalent
(of which I have lots, and have mounted several) was a little harder,
about HRC 53, and the microstructure was slightly visibly less tempered.

GC

[Benjamin F. Hawkins]

Dear Group:

I have conducted an experiment with the Canadian SS-109. From 40 yards
distance I fired one round at an 8"x10", 3/8" thick steel plate (T-1),
which was standing vertically on a 4"x4" piece of channel to which it was
welded. The plate and channel were free standing on a steel post with a
flat, horizontal plate welded to the top to form a table. The rifle was a
Colt "Government Model" AR-15 with standard length GI barrel. The round
knocked the plate off the stand cleanly, but close inspection showed VERY
LITTLE damage to the T-1 plate. It would be stretching it to say that
there was even a small ding, although the point of impact was clearly shown
by the ring of material left by the disintegrating bullet.

Next I fired one round of NATO 7.52x51 steel cored FMJ military surplus
Swedish ammunition at the same plate from the same distance. In this case
the rifle was a Springfield M1A with the standard length GI barrel. At
first I thought that I had missed the plate because it didn't fall
immedately. A close inspection of that shot showed a hole about 1/2"
diameter had been punched VERY cleanly through the plate. The sides of the
hole were very nearly straight and there was no discernable dimple on the
backside.

Steel cored .308 gives me a whole new definition of the word "cover", not
to be confused with the word "concealment".

FWIW.

Best regards to all.
Ben Hawkins

Steve Podleski <sdp...@romulus.ca.boeing.com> wrote in article
<6fuldk$d...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...

# Jeff Bryant wrote:
# I haven't tried it on steel
# # plate or thick wood, but that baby is going through lots of something
# # before it stops.
#
# I've been told that the penetrator can go through APC armour.
#
# --
# steve podleski
# Everett, WA

#
#
#

[JBrooks]

I have fired SS109s out of a 16" AR-15 barrel at a 3/8" steel plate at 100
yards. Went through.

In my experience, the SS109 is an excellent penetrator against a single
piece of steel. It does not do so well against layers of sheet steel, like
a car door. Tumbles too easily. Same with 30-06 AP, but that stuff is much
better than SS109.

The SS109 is one great performer.

John

Robert Schommer wrote in message <6fuviu$e...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
#Steve Podleski wrote:
##
## Jeff Bryant wrote:
## I haven't tried it on steel
## # plate or thick wood, but that baby is going through lots of something
## # before it stops.
##
## I've been told that the penetrator can go through APC armour.
##
## --
## steve podleski
## Everett, WA
#
#Hi Group,
#I was at a gun show over the weekend and saw a target plate of steel,
#about 1/2" thick. .300 Mag FMJ rounds went right through (nice clean
#holes) while SS109's only got about 2/3 the way through (with a fairly
#large craters). I would think SS109's would not have any trouble with
#3/8" steel plating.
#-Rob
#

[Benjamin F. Hawkins]

Yes, of course I meant 7.62mm. It's the keyboard's fault. But, I type
better than I shoot. Scary huh?
Ben.