How to organically get rid of scale
RBLeague
FHart32003
the dormant oil would not be appropriate, however there is a new ultra light
oil that can be used on growing plants Check with Gardens Alive! atr
1-812-537-8650 to see if they have an oil spray product that could be used in
your case.
Jon Shemitz
>
> How do I get rid of scale organically on my palm tree?
Spraying with soap works.
--
http://www.midnightbeach.com - Me, my work, my writing, and
http://www.midnightbeach.com/hs - my homeschool resource pages
Zhanataya
Does pythreium count as organic? It is made from chrysanthemums. There is a
product X-clude. that works very well on all the palms I use. Locally a radio
gardening talk show host recommends pet shampoo or dip mixed with water for
scale. I don't know the portions.
Zhanataya
FHart32003 wrote:
--
MZ
Zhanataya
I've accumulated a lot of nicknames.
Your information takes X-clude off the organic list. It's got Piperonyl Butoxide,
Technical*......2.200% listed as an active ingredient. That's disappointing, cuz I
really like the way it works on scale.
What does the Technical* mean?
Zee
m&v wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:57:06 -0500, Zhanataya
> <Zhan...@nospam-earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >I'm not well versed on what is organic, certified organic or none of the above.
> >Does pythreium count as organic? It is made from chrysanthemums. There is a
> >product X-clude. that works very well on all the palms I use. Locally a radio
> >gardening talk show host recommends pet shampoo or dip mixed with water for
> >scale. I don't know the portions.
> >
> >Zhanataya
> >
>
> Yes Zhanataya, (phonetically pronounce that for me please!) pyrethrum
> is certified organic if it does not contain a synergist called
> pipernol butoxide, aka PBO's in the process. That will be listed on
> the label, but not in the "active" ingredient list. Since it is only
> a catalyst, it does not have to be listed as "active." But it makes
> pyrethrins, which are sometimes actually pyrethroids (not pyrethrum at
> all, not even related molecularly)! Confused? Okay, pyrethrum is
> crushed chrysanthemums...pyrethrins are the active poison in
> pyrethrum, and pyrethroids are synthetic, but don't even resemble the
> real thing, so it is just another bs way of fooling people. Don't use
> anything with PBO's, not inside or outside.
>
> Just my (educated) opinion...using flea shampoos and stuff on plants?
> I wouldn't, only because the surfactant in these shampoos may be toxic
> to leaf cell structure and cause phototoxicity. We don't know,
> because these things are not labeled for use on plants. Especially if
> you spent a lot of money on a plant that is now dead from a surfactant
> meant to degrease a dog!
>
> Victoria
--
MZ
m&v
ntba...@globec.com.au
there is a homemade recipe using cooking oil to make white oil.
i'm sure there is a recipe on my remedies page.
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you'
<http://www.globec.com.au/~ntbandit/>
"old age and treachury will overcome youth and skill"
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Wendy B G
>Technical*......2.200% listed as an active ingredient. That's
>disappointing, cuz I
>really like the way it works on scale.
>
>What does the Technical* mean?
It refers to the purity grade of the chemical. "Technical grade" means fairly
impure (maybe 90-95% pure). "Reagent grade" means highly purified, usually at
least 99% pure. "Spectroscopic grade" means extremely pure, usually at least
99.99% pure.
Technical grade is much cheaper. It could have God-knows-what other chemicals
as residuals from the synthesis process just left in it. Since chemical
purification is an art unto itself (lots of fun for us chemists, but very
expensive on a manufacturing scale), higher purity grades are exponentially
more expensive.
The piperonyl butoxide they use will probably be a brown liquid, instead of the
clear liquid of the pure chemical. The total of 2.200% would be a
weight-per-weight percent of the chemical in the drum, so the actual
concentration of the piperonyl butoxide would be slightly less--- the rest
would be gunk, such as unreacted butanol.
By the way, I love your name, Zhanataya! Where are you from originally? I also
enjoy your postings.
Regards,
Wendy Goldberg, M.S., Chemistry
craig sweet
m&v wrote:
Certified organic by whom? Texas, and 5 other states have a uniformed certification
program..from what I understand the USA hasn't got one yet. I have been using Hot
Pepper Wax for scale with excellent results.
m&v
<Zhan...@nospam-earthlink.net> wrote:
>It's zhon aah ta (long a) yuh. Zhan, Zenny, Zee, they work. With a name like mine
>I've accumulated a lot of nicknames.
>
>Your information takes X-clude off the organic list. It's got Piperonyl Butoxide,
>Technical*......2.200% listed as an active ingredient. That's disappointing, cuz I
>really like the way it works on scale.
>
>What does the Technical* mean?
>
>Zee
>
Im not sure what the *Technical means, but it is great to see it
finally listed in the actives. Can you find pyrethrum without PBO's
in your area?
V
Zhanataya
craig sweet wrote:
I suppose certified by which ever certifying agency you trust the most. Or if growing
edibles for market, whichever agency has the most influence with your target customers.
I was just using the phrase to emphasize I don't know anything. It's just this year I'm
starting to grow vegetables. If I can keep them alive through their life cycle, then I
plan to learn how to protect them organically for the next spring garden.
Hot pepper was works well for me against tea scale, but the Florida brown scale thinks
it's manna from heaven. :-)
Zhanataya
Zhanataya
Wendy B G wrote:
> > It's got Piperonyl Butoxide,
> >Technical*......2.200% listed as an active ingredient. That's
> >disappointing, cuz I
> >really like the way it works on scale.
> >
> >What does the Technical* mean?
>
> It refers to the purity grade of the chemical. "Technical grade" means fairly
> impure (maybe 90-95% pure). "Reagent grade" means highly purified, usually at
> least 99% pure. "Spectroscopic grade" means extremely pure, usually at least
> 99.99% pure.
>
> Technical grade is much cheaper. It could have God-knows-what other chemicals
> as residuals from the synthesis process just left in it. Since chemical
> purification is an art unto itself (lots of fun for us chemists, but very
> expensive on a manufacturing scale), higher purity grades are exponentially
> more expensive.
>
> The piperonyl butoxide they use will probably be a brown liquid, instead of the
> clear liquid of the pure chemical. The total of 2.200% would be a
> weight-per-weight percent of the chemical in the drum, so the actual
> concentration of the piperonyl butoxide would be slightly less--- the rest
> would be gunk, such as unreacted butanol.
>
> By the way, I love your name, Zhanataya! Where are you from originally? I also
> enjoy your postings.
> Regards,
> Wendy Goldberg, M.S., Chemistry
I am amazed on a regular basis the wealth of information and talent there is on
this news group.
Being a chemist, I doubt the advertising agencies pull you in on the 'to good to be
true' commercials. I cheated my way through high school chemistry, and wasn't
required to take it after that. I know, wrong attitude, but I'll not try to
defend my teenage wisdom.
What does Piperonyle Butoxide do for the X-clude? Why is it necessary?
I'm a native prune picker. I was born California. I'm a first generation
American. I never had a chance to meet my relatives in europe, so I don't know the
origin of the name.
Zhanataya
RRWINTE
>From: Zhanataya <Zhan...@nospam-earthlink.net>
>Date: 2/14/99 10:34 PM EST
>Message-id: <36C795D6...@nospam-earthlink.net>
I have had success using Insecticidal Soap with a little rubbing alcohol mixed
in.
Zhanataya
RRWINTE wrote:
> >Subject: Re: How to organically get rid of scale
>
> I have had success using Insecticidal Soap with a little rubbing alcohol mixed
> in.
Against hard shelled scale? Did it do anything to the adults? How often did
you have to repeat spray? Have you done this on Ficus? This sorta tells you
where my problem areas are.
Zhanataya
Elsie
again. I would let it drip down into the stalk, where the leaves arise,
but the scale got worse and worse. I read on this group how you can lop
off the plant and grow new tops, so I will try that when chance of
freeze is past. I couldn't bring it back in the house, and it lives now
only because we haven't had a hard freeze. It did kill a lot of scale,
but it didn't stop it. (I have now used the nasty Di-Syston, hoping that
will get all the little baddies before I lop it....)
Elsie
USDA Zone 8b, Texas, with a southeast Texas AND a gulf influence...
Sunset Zone 28/31 (on the cusp)
--
Zhanataya
really crunched for time. At home I have a screw pine, it gets scale and mealy on a
regular basis. I saturate a handi wipe with alcohol and wipe down the leaves/fronds.
I hold the leaf with one hand and pinch the leaf tight between a fold of handi wipe
and pull off the scale. This way you can get most of the adults with their babies.
If it's hard shell scale, the momma protect the babies under her shell until they are
mature enough to go crawling. On a pony tail palm the scale is usually on the tender
new growth, or at least heaviest there, but they usually aren't at the leaf/stalk
joint, that tissue isn't that tender.
This may not be the answer to your scale problem, but it's one way to spend a mind
numbing hour.
I remember that thread. When he said "lop off an old friends head (of 25 years); I
had a real Highlander mental flash. I have a ponytail I've been thinking of doing it
to just to see. But mine has been working hard to stay pretty for me. So I'll
probably go buy a new one to behead, one I don't have a relationship with.
I don't know if alcohol is organic. I haven't quite got that sorted out.
Zhanataya
Vicki Surratt
I had a ponytail that got scale, and no matter what I did, I couldn't get rid of it.
So I lopped it off. It began to grow new shoots so I thought everything was going to
be okay. But then the scale returned. I have a feeling it was still on the plant
somewhere. I finally threw it away because I didn't want the scale to reach an older
ponytail plant that my grandmother gave me. It's about 9' tall and some 50+ years
old. I didn't want to take a chance on that one getting the scale.
Take Care!
Vicki Surratt
gea...@earthlink.net
zone 9
RRWINTE
>Date: 2/15/99 3:49 PM EST
>Message-id: <36C8886D...@nospam-earthlink.net>
>
>
>
>RRWINTE wrote:
>
>> >Subject: Re: How to organically get rid of scale
>>
>> I have had success using Insecticidal Soap with a little rubbing alcohol
>mixed
>> in.
>
> Against hard shelled scale? Did it do anything to the adults? How often
>did
>you have to repeat spray? Have you done this on Ficus? This sorta tells you
>where my problem areas are.
>
>Zhanataya
>
Apparently the rubbing alcohol helps the soap to penetrate the waxy layer of
the shell. The correct amount to add is about 1/2 to 1 cup of alcohol to the
spray mixture. It is best to spray this at a time when the sun will not be
beating down on it - cloudy days or late in the day.
I have not used this on Ficus, so I suggest you spray a small area to see if
there is any negative effects.
Hope this helps.
Wendy B G
>
Ethanol (drinking alcohol, like vodka) is definitely organic, since it is
produced as a waste product of metabolism by microorganisms (yeasts).
Isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) is a synthetic chemical, produced from petroleum.
However, don't worry about it, because isopropanol will simply evaporate, and
won't persist in the environment. It's only toxic if you drink it. Isopropanol
works by penetrating the waxy shell of the scale, making it more permeable to
the soap.
However, if you are an organic purist, you can always use 150 proof vodka
instead of isopropanol. At least your scale will die smiling ;-)!
Wendy
Zhanataya
until after business hours to spray. It's bound to smell like an emergency room.
Zhanataya
Zhanataya
RRWINTE
>Date: 2/15/99 9:15 PM EST
>Message-id: <19990215211548...@ng12.aol.com>
>
>>Subject: Re: How to organically get rid of scale
>>From: Zhanataya <Zhan...@nospam-earthlink.net>
>>Date: 2/15/99 3:49 PM EST
>>Message-id: <36C8886D...@nospam-earthlink.net>
>Yes, I have been successful using this mixture against hard shelled scale.
>Apparently the rubbing alcohol helps the soap to penetrate the waxy layer of
>the shell. The correct amount to add is about 1/2 to 1 cup of alcohol to the
>spray mixture. It is best to spray this at a time when the sun will not be
>beating down on it - cloudy days or late in the day.
>
>I have not used this on Ficus, so I suggest you spray a small area to see if
>there is any negative effects.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
mixture. Sorry about missing that the first time around.
Wendy B G
>
>I had a ponytail that got scale, and no matter what I did, I couldn't get rid
>of it.
>So I lopped it off. It began to grow new shoots so I thought everything was
>going to
>be okay. But then the scale returned.
I suggest you get a new hairdresser. If my ponytail got scale and began growing
new shoots after I lopped it off, I would probably shave my head ;-).
Wendy
Vicki Surratt
> >I've been lurking in here for awhile, I hope no one minds if I jump in.
> >
> Welcome! The life of a newsgroup is the participants, so the more the merrier.
Thanks! This NG seems to be filled with some pretty nice and knowledgeable
people. :-)
> >I had a ponytail that got scale, and no matter what I did, I couldn't get rid
> >of it.
> >So I lopped it off. It began to grow new shoots so I thought everything was
> >going to
> >be okay. But then the scale returned.
>
> I suggest you get a new hairdresser. If my ponytail got scale and began growing
> new shoots after I lopped it off, I would probably shave my head ;-).
> Wendy
Hehehe... Yeah, I could use a new one, but that's a whole other story...
The good news is my grandmother's big ponytail didn't get the scale. After 50
years of nursing it, she entrusted it to me to carry on. I'd be devastated if
something happened to it.
m&v
<Zhan...@nospam-earthlink.net> wrote:
> Against hard shelled scale? Did it do anything to the adults? How often did
>you have to repeat spray? Have you done this on Ficus? This sorta tells you
>where my problem areas are.
>
>Zhanataya
>
Insecticidal soap is labeled for use on scale insects, of which there
are several types. They all look hard bodied, but the fatty acid in
the soap serves to break down the exoskeleton on the insect, exposing
it to the elements and it will die of one of several things, one of
which is desiccation. I have never used alcohol mixed in with it, as
it is totally not necessary. I have used alcohol swabs to remove
large infestations of scale immediately, followed by a spray program
using insecticidal soap. Follow the label direction.
Victoria
Elsie
Zhanataya wrote:
>
> My questions were geared toward finding an answer for curing scale at work, where I'm
> really crunched for time. At home I have a screw pine, it gets scale and mealy on a
> regular basis. I saturate a handi wipe with alcohol and wipe down the leaves/fronds.
> I hold the leaf with one hand and pinch the leaf tight between a fold of handi wipe
> and pull off the scale. This way you can get most of the adults with their babies.
> If it's hard shell scale, the momma protect the babies under her shell until they are
> mature enough to go crawling. On a pony tail palm the scale is usually on the tender
> new growth, or at least heaviest there, but they usually aren't at the leaf/stalk
> joint, that tissue isn't that tender.
>
> This may not be the answer to your scale problem, but it's one way to spend a mind
> numbing hour.
>
> I remember that thread. When he said "lop off an old friends head (of 25 years); I
> had a real Highlander mental flash. I have a ponytail I've been thinking of doing it
> to just to see. But mine has been working hard to stay pretty for me. So I'll
> probably go buy a new one to behead, one I don't have a relationship with.
>
> I don't know if alcohol is organic. I haven't quite got that sorted out.
>
> Zhanataya
I tried the manual labor, too. Many, many times. But they grew faster
than I could pull them off. And they were down in the "joints", nice and
protected. I really worked hard on that thing! I hate using the hard
stuff, but it's either that or the garbage can at this point.
Elsie
lop in about a month. (Hopefully the Di-Syston is working internally
...I can only wait and see. The other option is the garbage can. And
it's about 6 feet tall - well, anyway, at this point :-))
--
Elsie
USDA Zone 8b, Texas, with a southeast Texas AND a gulf influence...
Sunset Zone 28/31 (on the cusp)
Vicki Surratt wrote:
>
> I've been lurking in here for awhile, I hope no one minds if I jump in.
>
> I had a ponytail that got scale, and no matter what I did, I couldn't get rid of it.
> So I lopped it off. It began to grow new shoots so I thought everything was going to
> be okay. But then the scale returned. I have a feeling it was still on the plant
> somewhere. I finally threw it away because I didn't want the scale to reach an older
> ponytail plant that my grandmother gave me. It's about 9' tall and some 50+ years
> old. I didn't want to take a chance on that one getting the scale.
>
Zhanataya
different? Not counting the diapers.
Zhanataya
Elsie wrote:
Vicki Surratt
:-)
Take Care!
Vicki Surratt
gea...@earthlink.net
zone 9
Elsie wrote:
> Thanks for your observation, Vicki. Jump in anytime. I'll be trying the
> lop in about a month. (Hopefully the Di-Syston is working internally
> ...I can only wait and see. The other option is the garbage can. And
> it's about 6 feet tall - well, anyway, at this point :-))
>
> --
J.W.Penwill
m&v
Cooking oil clogs up the stomata on the plants leaves and literally
smothers it. In winter, one can use dormant oils, also labeled for
use on plants and very effective.
Victoria
Elsie
would lose!! ;-}
Elsie
USDA Zone 8b, Texas, with a southeast Texas AND a gulf influence...
Sunset Zone 28/31 (on the cusp)
m&v
>Oh, don't get me started on the kids vs. plants! I'm afraid the kids
>would lose!! ;-}
>
>Elsie
>USDA Zone 8b, Texas, with a southeast Texas AND a gulf influence...
>Sunset Zone 28/31 (on the cusp)
If you were a man, I'd ask you to marry me! :) We feel the same way
about kids. Like em, but we like em if they're YOURS.
V
Elsie
experience! Of course, how I speak depends upon a given hour on a given
day, and what they've done or not done. And right now, I'd trade my
youngest (23 years old) in for just about any old plant!
Elsie
USDA Zone 8b, Texas, with a southeast Texas AND a gulf influence...
Sunset Zone 28/31 (on the cusp)
--
Zhanataya
Ann
>Actually, Victoria, I have three that ARE mine! So I speak from
>experience! Of course, how I speak depends upon a given hour on a given
>day, and what they've done or not done. And right now, I'd trade my
>youngest (23 years old) in for just about any old plant!
Ha! I'd trade my oldest (18 years _old_...now there's an oxymoron)
for just about anything some days.
Ann
Gardening in Zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
Fix the from: 9 is the spam trap!
Elsie
And then there are the days we'd PAY someone to take them! Siigghh... Oh
well, we can always dream.
--
Brenda G. Tataryn
: >> >Subject: Re: How to organically get rid of scale
Meditate...contact the scale deva and ask her to call off the hoardes.
Talk to the scale and ask for them to go outside or to another area and
leave you scalefree.I give all critters a time line of 3 days.I tell them
to leave..at the 3 day mark..I wipe em off!
Bren.
--
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