Is it possible to have too much organic material?
Debs
I live in an area with young soil, meaning that the soil is still
developing over rubble left by a retreating, still active, glacier.
Topsoil, if they want to call it that, is expensive ($450 US for 6
yards of about 1/4 wood chips, 1/4 sand, 1/4 peat and who knows what
else). However, I have an almost unlimited supply of compostable
materials available to me, including:
seaweed, seashells and starfish or other fish waste, waste grain from
a brewery, wood chips, spruce needles, vegetable waste (I volunteer at
a local food bank and can get LOTS of spoiled vegetables and fruit),
horse manure, straw and hay, shredded newspaper, and on a more limited
basis, leaves and cut grass. I also have about half an acre of old
growth timer built upon some real nice humusy peat like soil I can
draw on, if necessary, although I'd rather not disturb my prolific
wild blueberries. What little native soil on the unforested area
there is has an extremely high clay content.
I guess my question would be, is it possible to have too much organic
material mixed in with what little soil is readily available to me? I
do realize that I have to keep amending my soil, but isn't there such
a thing as overkill? Everything I read indicates that I should add as
much organic material to my soil as possible. It almost seems that
the heat of the decomposition of my soil would help counteract the
fact that I live in a place that gets over 100 inches of rain a year
and temperatures that hover in the high 50's to mid 60's during the
warm part of the year. Our ground is frozen solid for at least four
months per year.
It is actually more financially feasible to have a ratio of 25% clay
soil and 75%, or even more organic, decomposing material than to
import expensive "soil" and amend it.
Any opinions?
Debbie, Juneau, AK
Zone 4,5, or 6 depending on where you stand
m&v
In <3546bbf8...@news.ptialaska.net> de...@ptialaska.net (Debs)
writes:
>I guess my question would be, is it possible to have too much organic
>material mixed in with what little soil is readily available to me?
Not a chance in the world you could have too much organic matter in
the soil. Too little is far more a problem than too much. You can
plant directly in compost and have very healthy plants.
I
>do realize that I have to keep amending my soil, but isn't there such
>a thing as overkill?
Not if you compost the material before you add it.
Everything I read indicates that I should add as
>much organic material to my soil as possible. It almost seems that
>the heat of the decomposition of my soil would help counteract the
>fact that I live in a place that gets over 100 inches of rain a year
>and temperatures that hover in the high 50's to mid 60's during the
>warm part of the year. Our ground is frozen solid for at least four
>months per year.
>
There is some truth to this. The more organic matter you use, the more
microbial activity the soil will establish, and believe it or not, the
more microbes you have, the more heat you will have in the soil. Not
limited to the decomposition, necessarily, but due to the high energy
process of those life forms in the soil.
>It is actually more financially feasible to have a ratio of 25% clay
>soil and 75%, or even more organic, decomposing material than to
>import expensive "soil" and amend it.
>
>Any opinions?
>
>Debbie, Juneau, AK
>Zone 4,5, or 6 depending on where you stand
>
It would be a giant waste of money to pay for imported top soil.
Create your own which is how the earth does it naturally, by adding
organic matter in huge tons of it. Clay is a far better soil, than is
sand. Clay is rich in most elements, sand has sand. If you have some
volcanic rock to add to your soil, my opinion is that you would get far
more value spending money on volcanic material, like lavasand...than
you would paying for topsoil. The lavasand helps with the cation
exchange capacity of the clay, unlocking many of the otherwise tied up
elements...Clay, negative charge...lavasand, positive charge cation.
Load the compost on darlin, especially seaweed!
Victoria
Ed Kosiba
Victoria,
When you say "Lavasand" are you talking about "Perlite" or some
other type of material? I am currently re-locating my garden from some
raised beds made of PT lumber (don't know about leaching, but when I
pulled up the stacked 4X4's, there was definite DECAY there ...) to a
larger area of former sod. The sod stripping (bermuda and fescue) was
pure fun, and the clay soil is pretty pathetic. Adding vermiculite,
perlite,
leaf mold, and some soil from the raised beds definitely improved things
greatly (after much tilling), but I was considering adding coarse sand and
or more perlite or vermiculite. Lavasand, if this is different from
perlite,
sounds like it might be yet another interesting additive. Thanks - Ed
m&v wrote:
( ...
> It would be a giant waste of money to pay for imported top soil.
> Create your own which is how the earth does it naturally, by adding
> organic matter in huge tons of it. Clay is a far better soil, than is
> sand. Clay is rich in most elements, sand has sand. If you have some
> volcanic rock to add to your soil, my opinion is that you would get far
> more value spending money on volcanic material, like lavasand...than
> you would paying for topsoil. The lavasand helps with the cation
> exchange capacity of the clay, unlocking many of the otherwise tied up
> elements...Clay, negative charge...lavasand, positive charge cation.
> Load the compost on darlin, especially seaweed!
>
> Victoria
--
"Please remove the underscore character in my e-mail
address to reply (Anti-SPAM measure)"
Bill Morgan
In article <3546bbf8...@news.ptialaska.net>, de...@ptialaska.net (Debs)
wrote:
> I live in an area with young soil, meaning that the soil is still
> developing over rubble left by a retreating, still active, glacier.
And you're counting on it not advancing again, of course.
> Topsoil, if they want to call it that, is expensive ($450 US for 6
> yards of about 1/4 wood chips, 1/4 sand, 1/4 peat and who knows what
> else). However, I have an almost unlimited supply of compostable
> materials available to me, including:
>
> seaweed, seashells and starfish or other fish waste, waste grain from
> a brewery, wood chips, spruce needles, vegetable waste (I volunteer at
> a local food bank and can get LOTS of spoiled vegetables and fruit),
> horse manure, straw and hay, shredded newspaper, and on a more limited
> basis, leaves and cut grass. I also have about half an acre of old
> growth timer built upon some real nice humusy peat like soil I can
> draw on, if necessary, although I'd rather not disturb my prolific
> wild blueberries. What little native soil on the unforested area
> there is has an extremely high clay content.
$450.00 *is* expensive. you've got plenty of material to work with, so save
the cost. You might want to avoid the fish waste--it could result in a
smelly compost pile, and might attract scavengers. And if you're planning
on mixing the material directly into the soil (vs prior composting), the
scavenger issue is especially important: you don't want something digging
up your garden every night.
OTOH, dried and peletized fish waste is sold commercially as a fertilizer.
>
> I guess my question would be, is it possible to have too much organic
> material mixed in with what little soil is readily available to me? I
> do realize that I have to keep amending my soil, but isn't there such
> a thing as overkill?
It all depends on what you're trying to grow. Some plants of desert, rocky
alpine and other barren habitats don't need much organic matter. If planted
into highly organic soils, they are easily overrun by weeds. For some, root
rot might also be an issue.
For *most* of the commonly grown plants, it would be very difficult to add
too much organic material.
>Everything I read indicates that I should add as
> much organic material to my soil as possible. It almost seems that
> the heat of the decomposition of my soil would help counteract the
> fact that I live in a place that gets over 100 inches of rain a year
> and temperatures that hover in the high 50's to mid 60's during the
> warm part of the year. Our ground is frozen solid for at least four
> months per year.
You might also consider building cold frames. That could extend your
growing season. Some people even heat cold frames with decomposing material
(usually manure, though). Some people use cold frames and then build an
A-frame plastic mini-greenhouse around that: this really extends the
season.
>
> It is actually more financially feasible to have a ratio of 25% clay
> soil and 75%, or even more organic, decomposing material than to
> import expensive "soil" and amend it.
Yep, save the bucks.
Regards,
Bill
--
Bill Morgan
wtmo...@pilot.msu.edu
Center for Room Temperature Confusion
m&v
In <354803D1...@traveller.com> Ed Kosiba <eko...@traveller.com>
writes:
>Victoria,
>When you say "Lavasand" are you talking about "Perlite" or some
>other type of material? I am currently re-locating my garden from
some
>raised beds made of PT lumber (don't know about leaching, but when I
>pulled up the stacked 4X4's, there was definite DECAY there ...) to a
>larger area of former sod. The sod stripping (bermuda and fescue) was
>pure fun, and the clay soil is pretty pathetic. Adding vermiculite,
>perlite,
>leaf mold, and some soil from the raised beds definitely improved
things
>greatly (after much tilling), but I was considering adding coarse sand
and
>or more perlite or vermiculite. Lavasand, if this is different from
>perlite,
>sounds like it might be yet another interesting additive. Thanks - Ed
Lavasand is a red material, which is mined in New Mexico where it is
plentyful. It is far superior to any course sand, perlite or
vermiculite in that it benefits the soil in several ways. One way is
that it holds water at the exact level necessary, serving the capilary
action of that type of water in soil. Lavasand also has a catio
exchange capacity which greatly increases the level of absorbtion of
nutrients by root hairs, especially, but not limited to tight clay
soils. It is classified as being a paramagnetic material in that
helps, by its cation exchange capacity, to unlock elements which
ordinarily are held very tightly to the clay particulates. Clay is
very tiny, the lavasand is large. Read more about it at
http://www.dirtdoctor.com
Twin Mountain Rock is the main provider of all lavasand to this area of
Texas and elsewhere. Think about it....where is the MOST fertile soil
in the land? Could it be Hawaii, or Madagascar? And what about Hawaii
makes it topographically different than most places on Earth? Active
volcano possibly? Very recent lavaflow? When I say recent, I could
mean 10,000 years, not yesterday. I cannot say enough about lavasand
as an additive, both interesting and beneficial.
Victoria
T. Postel
In article <3546bbf8...@news.ptialaska.net>, de...@ptialaska.net (Debs) was, um, like:
>I guess my question would be, is it possible to have too much organic
>material mixed in with what little soil is readily available to me?
>Any opinions?
>
>Debbie, Juneau, AK
>Zone 4,5, or 6 depending on where you stand
>
My 2 cents: What do you want the soil to do? Fresh compost and
mulch are generally too loose to hold large roots so trees need some
clay, sand, rock etc. For veggies & ornamentals, well you can grow
stuff in the compost bin ya know...
-m
Chris Owens
de...@ptialaska.net (Debs) writes:
> I live in an area with young soil, meaning that the soil is still
> developing over rubble left by a retreating, still active, glacier.
> Topsoil, if they want to call it that, is expensive ($450 US for 6
> yards of about 1/4 wood chips, 1/4 sand, 1/4 peat and who knows what
> else). However, I have an almost unlimited supply of compostable
> materials available to me, including:
>
> seaweed, seashells and starfish or other fish waste, waste grain from
> a brewery, wood chips, spruce needles, vegetable waste (I volunteer at
> a local food bank and can get LOTS of spoiled vegetables and fruit),
> horse manure, straw and hay, shredded newspaper, and on a more limited
> basis, leaves and cut grass. I also have about half an acre of old
> growth timer built upon some real nice humusy peat like soil I can
> draw on, if necessary, although I'd rather not disturb my prolific
> wild blueberries. What little native soil on the unforested area
> there is has an extremely high clay content.
>
> I guess my question would be, is it possible to have too much organic
> material mixed in with what little soil is readily available to me? I
> do realize that I have to keep amending my soil, but isn't there such
> a thing as overkill? Everything I read indicates that I should add as
> much organic material to my soil as possible. It almost seems that
> the heat of the decomposition of my soil would help counteract the
> fact that I live in a place that gets over 100 inches of rain a year
> and temperatures that hover in the high 50's to mid 60's during the
> warm part of the year. Our ground is frozen solid for at least four
> months per year.
>
> It is actually more financially feasible to have a ratio of 25% clay
> soil and 75%, or even more organic, decomposing material than to
> import expensive "soil" and amend it.
>
> Any opinions?
Unless you are growing a very limited number of plants [e.g., cactuses]
that don't want organic matter in the soil, no, you can't really go overboard.
Skip the seashells, starfish, and other fish waste, though.
Chris Owens
JFR
How expensive is it, what results do you see, and how do you know it is
the real thing? Not to be too cynical ;^), but sounds like potential
scam material (take sand and add iron oxide particles to it).....
When were there volcanoes in NM?
John R>
m&v
>
>How expensive is it, what results do you see, and how do you know it
is
>the real thing? Not to be too cynical ;^), but sounds like potential
>scam material (take sand and add iron oxide particles to it).....
>
>When were there volcanoes in NM?
>
>John R>
I answered this in email. John R, If you would be so kind to forward my
email to the newsgroup, I'd be very greatful.
Victoria