My neighbors cat keeps CRAPPING in my from garden.
David Boll
: Please, don't anyone flame me for this. Please, please, please.
: I'm not advocating this.
: My neighbor shoots the cats that come into his yard with a low
: power bb gun. As far as I know, he hasn't done any permanent
: damage (yet?). I think he tries to hit them in the back leg,
: but he does avoid the head.
Flame? Heck, I'll sign your neighbor up for a medal. I don't own any pets,
and I'm completely tired of picking up cat poop in the back and dog poop
in the front. If I had a BB gun, I'd do the same.
I have heard on one interesting technique for dog poop: Pour some bacon
grease over it. The offending dog then cleans up its own mess!
---------------
Dave Boll db...@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com
"The speed of time is one second per second"
Ken Klaser
db...@vcd.hp.com (David Boll) wrote:
There is a felt BB gun pellet that is used for cleaning the bore, that
could also be used to surprise an unwanted small animal without
hurting them or causing any kind of permanent damage. Unfortunately
the company they were available from has gone out of buisness (I
think). Thier company name was Beeman.
Dr Pepper
lee...@adnc.com (Ken Klaser) wrote:
>db...@vcd.hp.com (David Boll) wrote:
>>: Please, don't anyone flame me for this. Please, please, please.
>>: I'm not advocating this.
>>: My neighbor shoots the cats that come into his yard with a low
>>: power bb gun. As far as I know, he hasn't done any permanent
>>: damage (yet?). I think he tries to hit them in the back leg,
>>: but he does avoid the head.
>> Flame? Heck, I'll sign your neighbor up for a medal. I don't own any pets,
>> and I'm completely tired of picking up cat poop in the back and dog poop
>> in the front. If I had a BB gun, I'd do the same.
I've had the same problems and solved them by trapping the cat then
wetting him down with the hose. He leaves, mad, but uusually for
good.
If I caught anyone shooting MY cat with a bebe gun or similar, I would
be visiting him witha baseball bat to explain the problem with
cruelty to animals.
Dr Pepper
10 - 2 - 4
Vicki Elberfeld
Dr Pepper (ches...@ridgecrest.ca.us) wrote:
: If I caught anyone shooting MY cat with a bebe gun or similar, I would
: be visiting him witha baseball bat to explain the problem with
: cruelty to animals.
Here's what bothers me about the attitude of cat owners who let their
pet run all over: They don't like it if you teach it a lesson by bb gun
or such, because that's cruelty to an animal that isn't capable of making
moral choices. Yet their cat is out there slowly torturing, then
killing, a lot of neighborhood wildlife. The cat may not be morally
responsible, but the owner, who lets the cat out to commit this mayhem on
other people's property, certainly is. Something's wrong here. Owners
ought to look at their own actions, and keep their cats indoors or off
other peoples' properties by some other method. In any case, they ought
to quit whining about cruelty to animals when they are responsible for
far worse cruelty.
- Tom, who hates cats but has never harmed one
Jack Dingler
Yeah! I agree! And to whoever keeps feeding my black & white tomcat. Stop
it so maybe he'll stay around some!
And to the local churches who have been so gracious to provide the giant
litter boxes divided in half with a net. Thanks a million! I really save
kitty litter money in the summer.
Oops Sorry... Responding to the wrong post. :)
About the BB gun, I prefer wrist-rocket sling shots. Less suspicious in the
city, faster to reload and very quiet. A neighbor hood stray has learned to
cross far down the street and go far around my property. No relation between
statements mind you.
BTW I love my cats. But toms will be toms. I just keep the neosporin handy.
--
_ ___
/ \/ \ Jack Dingler | Some have said, "Don't bother, it's
##=========(=)[| Dallas, Tx | already been done before." I'm just
\_/\___/ JDin...@onramp.net | glad my parents didn't know any better.
A. Veller
In article <31FCF3...@xtraonline.com>, Jack Dingler
<ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
> > Dr Pepper (ches...@ridgecrest.ca.us) wrote:
> >
> > : If I caught anyone shooting MY cat with a bebe gun or similar, I would
> > : be visiting him witha baseball bat to explain the problem with
> > : cruelty to animals.
> >
> > Here's what bothers me about the attitude of cat owners who let their
> > pet run all over: They don't like it if you teach it a lesson by bb gun
> > or such, because that's cruelty to an animal that isn't capable of making
> > moral choices. Yet their cat is out there slowly torturing, then
> > killing, a lot of neighborhood wildlife. The cat may not be morally
> > responsible, but the owner, who lets the cat out to commit this mayhem on
> > other people's property, certainly is. Something's wrong here. Owners
> > ought to look at their own actions, and keep their cats indoors or off
> > other peoples' properties by some other method. In any case, they ought
> > to quit whining about cruelty to animals when they are responsible for
I'm not so sure about all this.
I'm one of those "good neighbours" who keeps their pets inside,
nevertheless a lot of my friends (ans I myself) think it might not be such
a wise thing to do, because you take away a lot of their "natural state".
I admit it might not be nice to look at a cat killing a bird, but on the
other hand a UK study (1) has shown that domesticated cats that run around
freely do a lot for the natural balance.
Cats that run free eat (or kill) a lot of insects, rodents and birds,
which on their turn would eat lots of seeds and plants. This, in the end,
means that your neighbour's cat, apart from pooping in your flower beds,
may well be helping your garden along by killing some creatures that would
eat or destroy your precious plants.
Every coin has its flip side, and natural ecology is not as easy and
straightforward as it seems.
(1) No I cannot give an exact quote for the study, but it was conducted by
a investigative science teacher who set up an experiment which involved
all the people in a selected area in rurla UK. They were asked to keep all
the animals that their cats brought home from their hunts, after which
these animals were determined and catalogued. I saw a programme about this
guy several times on TV (BBC). Someone else might remember the details.
Thomas Dyson
>Yeah! I agree! And to whoever keeps feeding my black & white tomcat. Stop
>it so maybe he'll stay around some!
>
>BTW I love my cats. But toms will be toms. I just keep the neosporin
handy.
>
Just out of curiosity, but why don't you get your cat fixed? He would
probably be more inclined to stay at home then.
Veronica
Ken
>a wise thing to do, because you take away a lot of their "natural state".
I don't think cats (and dogs) are still a part of that natural chain.
They no longer have a natural habitat (other than in our houses), and
have been pretty much removed from the food chain. When they are the
eaten, people tend to get pretty upset. As I understand it, well-fed
housecats eat more birds than half-starved feral cats do - something
about having more energy and doing it more for fun than survival.
>I admit it might not be nice to look at a cat killing a bird, but on the
>other hand a UK study (1) has shown that domesticated cats that run around
>freely do a lot for the natural balance.
My understanding has been that domestic cats do more to throw off
whatever natural balance is left than restore it. And it makes sense,
because of their incredible advantage. They are fed daily, protected
from the elements, disease and injury, and usually from the perils
associated with reproduction. The closest they have to a natural
predator is the speeding car. Think about it - they really do have a
tremendous advantage over critters that are scrounging on their own to
survive.
>Cats that run free eat (or kill) a lot of insects, rodents and birds,
>which on their turn would eat lots of seeds and plants. This, in the end,
>means that your neighbour's cat, apart from pooping in your flower beds,
>may well be helping your garden along by killing some creatures that would
>eat or destroy your precious plants.
I have to admit that having a cat around (which I do, against my
wishes) has done wonderful thing for keeping the rabbits at bay. But
there is no way for me to know how much insect damage I get from the
bugs that would have been eaten by the birds that she ate.
>Every coin has its flip side, and natural ecology is not as easy and
>straightforward as it seems.
100% true! But cats have nothing to do with natural ecosystems -
they, like dogs, have been completely domesticated, and it's only the
overflow that run wild.
>(1) No I cannot give an exact quote for the study, but it was conducted by
>a investigative science teacher who set up an experiment which involved
>all the people in a selected area in rurla UK. They were asked to keep all
>the animals that their cats brought home from their hunts, after which
>these animals were determined and catalogued. I saw a programme about this
>guy several times on TV (BBC). Someone else might remember the details.
I didn't see this program; I live in the US, not UK; I doubt that
things are that much different there.
This is not a diatribe against cats - or the writer of this article.
It's merely my opinion.
Sabra
Vicki Elberfeld
A. Veller (ave...@vnet3.vub.ac.be) wrote:
: In article <31FCF3...@xtraonline.com>, Jack Dingler
: <ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
: > > Dr Pepper (ches...@ridgecrest.ca.us) wrote:
: > >
: > > : If I caught anyone shooting MY cat with a bebe gun or similar, I would
: > > : be visiting him witha baseball bat to explain the problem with
: > > : cruelty to animals.
: > >
: > > Here's what bothers me about the attitude of cat owners who let their
: > > pet run all over: They don't like it if you teach it a lesson by bb gun
: > > or such, because that's cruelty to an animal that isn't capable of making
: > > moral choices. Yet their cat is out there slowly torturing, then
: > > killing, a lot of neighborhood wildlife. The cat may not be morally
: > > responsible, but the owner, who lets the cat out to commit this mayhem on
: > > other people's property, certainly is. Something's wrong here. Owners
: > > ought to look at their own actions, and keep their cats indoors or off
: > > other peoples' properties by some other method. In any case, they ought
: > > to quit whining about cruelty to animals when they are responsible for
: I'm not so sure about all this.
: I'm one of those "good neighbours" who keeps their pets inside,
: nevertheless a lot of my friends (ans I myself) think it might not be such
: a wise thing to do, because you take away a lot of their "natural state".
If that's true, and if removing their natural state is a bad thing (I
think that anything one can do to change cats' nature is a good thing, but
then I'm biased :) then we should consider cats to be in a class with other
undomesticable (if that's a word) animals, and not keep them.
: I admit it might not be nice to look at a cat killing a bird, but on the
: other hand a UK study (1) has shown that domesticated cats that run around
: freely do a lot for the natural balance.
Well, I read an article that said that cats kill way more of the local
fauna than we give them credit for, and play havoc with local
species diversity. Makes sense to me, but I'm too lazy to delve into it
further.
: Cats that run free eat (or kill) a lot of insects, rodents and birds,
: which on their turn would eat lots of seeds and plants. This, in the end,
: means that your neighbour's cat, apart from pooping in your flower beds,
: may well be helping your garden along by killing some creatures that would
: eat or destroy your precious plants.
Most of the critters negatively impacting my garden are insects,
and it seems to be that cats kill a lot of insect-eating birds.
: Every coin has its flip side, and natural ecology is not as easy and
: straightforward as it seems.
But at base it's really about property rights. Whether people have the
right to keep their pets on other people's property.
A. Veller
In article <4tlpmp$n...@news.ecn.bgu.edu>, uvel...@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Vicki
Elberfeld) wrote:
Ah but then in Belgium we have no choice but to tolerate them. They have
the legal status of "half-wild animal" which means that they can be
domesticated, but when they are running around freely they are considered
to fall under the hunting laws (game). Cats are classified as a not to be
hunted species.
So basically here at least there is not much you can do if your
neighbour's cat is savaging your garden, but to deter it without harming
it.
Mark Ikemoto
I just got the August 96 issue of the Damark Catalog. They sell all
kinds of nifty unusual gadgetry, high-tech toys, etc. On page 61:
Protect Your Yard and Garden from Pests
The ultrasonic Pest Deterrent uses high-frequency tones to encourage
birds, squirrels, dogs, cats, and rodents to stay away. Humans can't
hear the sound at all, but for the pests, it's like front row seats
at a loud concert! They just can't stand it...so they move on. You
have your choice of three different deterrent modes: dogs and cats,
rodents and rabbits, and birds-- or a combination of the three! Safe
and humane, the Pest Deterrent has two different area settings to
better match the size of your yard or garden. Covers up to 6,000 sq.
ft.
Item no. B-8810-466700. Free shipping and handling! $79.99
Also available: Additional speaker with wire: $29.99 S/H free!
Item no. B-8810-466707.
Damark phone #: 800-729-9000
Mark
A. Veller
> >Every coin has its flip side, and natural ecology is not as easy and
> >straightforward as it seems.
> 100% true! But cats have nothing to do with natural ecosystems -
> they, like dogs, have been completely domesticated, and it's only the
> overflow that run wild.
The point of the programme that I mentioned in my post suggested exactly
the opposite. The gist of the conclusion was: we might think that
domesticated cats do nothing fo our ecosystem, but in fact they do a lot.
The bulk of the effect quoted was positive.
These are not my conclusions, they were the conclusion of the study
conducted by the British scientist. (I wish I could provide correct
pointers).
I know that your reactions are not against cats, and although I have a cat
(which I keep *inside*) I am not a fanatic. Sometimes it's necessary to
pull out the squirt gun and on some occasions I would even consider the
local fire depts. fire hose :-)
All I want to say is that what we think is true is not necessarily true in
reality. Isn't it also popular belief that people can catch a cold when
they go outside with wet hair?
So: Here's a study claiming that *in the UK* loose domestic cats do a lot
*for* the ecosystem. I know they have had a nasty effect on australian
wildlife e.g., but maybe its still something to consider in your ara. (We
could all start a local experiment and compare notes with the original
scientist, I'm sure he'd love that!).
Wilona1
In article <4tmd8h$3...@news.net-connect.net>, HubbaTubbaBubba writes:
>Finally, cats transmit all sorts of diease to people ... the most
>recent one cats are being linked to is asthma ... 'cat scratch fever'
>is that a myth?
Cat scratch fever .... one of my friends' son once befrinded a stray
kitten and of course got some scratches .... not long after he went to the
doctor for some reason and Dr. found some suspicous lumps in his lymph
nodes, suspected cancer and did a biopsy and other tests. Finally found
this tiny bit of resideue from cat's claws scratching him -- we were all
scared to death he had cancer, when it was just cat scratch fever!!!!!!
Can happen if you get scratched by a wild or stray cat.
*****************************************************************
"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it ...
Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it." --Goethe
****** Martha E. Knowles ***** Wil...@aol.com ******
Gardening: USDA Zone 9, Central Florida
*****************************************************************
HubbaTubbaBubba
Jack Dingler <ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
>Vicki Elberfeld wrote:
>>
>> Dr Pepper (ches...@ridgecrest.ca.us) wrote:
>>
>> : If I caught anyone shooting MY cat with a bebe gun or similar, I would
>> : be visiting him witha baseball bat to explain the problem with
>> : cruelty to animals.
>>
Yea, get a life, another one, 'cuz you won't have yours when it's
done, meet Mr. .45!!! Not ok to plunk a stray cat with a BB gun but
is ok to club a human with a baseball bat. Geez, some people ...
>> Here's what bothers me about the attitude of cat owners who let their
>> pet run all over: They don't like it if you teach it a lesson by bb gun
>> or such, because that's cruelty to an animal that isn't capable of making
>> moral choices. Yet their cat is out there slowly torturing, then
>> killing, a lot of neighborhood wildlife.
If you live in an urban area, few don't, no such thing as 'wildlife',
nothing so a cat could torture ... Another poster said 'ecosystem',
again in an urban setting a few trees, shrubs, grass, an ecosystem?
Not! Bugs, maybe, otherwise that's an overstatement. Who eats the
fish in the stream behind the house? Is there fish in the ditch, ah..
stream? Nit-pick but ...
> The cat may not be morally
>> responsible, but the owner, who lets the cat out to commit this mayhem on
>> other people's property, certainly is. Something's wrong here. Owners
>> ought to look at their own actions, and keep their cats indoors or off
>> other peoples' properties by some other method. In any case, they ought
>> to quit whining about cruelty to animals when they are responsible for
>> far worse cruelty.
>>
>> - Tom, who hates cats but has never harmed one
>Yeah! I agree! And to whoever keeps feeding my black & white tomcat. Stop
>it so maybe he'll stay around some!
Yeah! I agree with Tom to, even that last statement. Now this other
person ought to keep the cat in the house and you wouldn't have that
problem, rather the other people wouldn't have that problem! Here's
hopeing your cat returns one more time and then meets its demise at
the hands of the 'wildlife' the next time out visiting the
'ecosystem'.
>About the BB gun, I prefer wrist-rocket sling shots. Less suspicious in the
>city, faster to reload and very quiet. A neighbor hood stray has learned to
>cross far down the street and go far around my property. No relation between
>statements mind you.
Sling Shot! Now that IS way cool. Wish I'd thought of it! Yeah!
No, folks I can't say I've done actual harm to a cat ... I'll say,
Shoot 'em!, but I haven't, wouldn't be upset if someone else did,
clean shot, not me though ...
What I have done is trap two of the neighborhood cats and brought them
to the SPCA. Guess they're bow strings now, they never came back...
Bye Kitties!
You know there are leash LAWS for both CATS and dogs in most cities,
counties??? Yapper, sure is. Where people get off thinking it's ok
to make THEIR pet someone else's problem AND then have the gall to
whine, no, demand, other people put up with it, is beyond me! Your
cute, cuddley, intelligent (bahahaha!), loveable cat is stupid vermon
to me.
Hey I heard that asprin with in milk will give them a pleasant death,
anyone know if that's true???
Finally, cats transmit all sorts of diease to people ... the most
recent one cats are being linked to is asthma ... 'cat scratch fever'
is that a myth? I know its been suggested that you lose the cat when
you bring baby home... old wife's tail?, yea, maybe so, but I know its
been restated in recent years (last two) ...
What are the others?
Now if there be a cat that kills wood roaches, well I'd get one or two
of them, turn 'em lose and let 'em breed uncontrollably.
Wendy McGough
>(1) No I cannot give an exact quote for the study, but it was conducted by
>a investigative science teacher who set up an experiment which involved
>all the people in a selected area in rurla UK. They were asked to keep all
>the animals that their cats brought home from their hunts, after which
>these animals were determined and catalogued. I saw a programme about this
>guy several times on TV (BBC). Someone else might remember the details.
I saw this show as well, but I came away with a totally different perspective.
I was under the impression that this study proved that cats were doing a lot
of damage to the local song bird population, and that in England people
are now being encouraged to restrain their little kitties somehow, or at least
give the birds some warning by having the cats wear a bell. Different show
maybe? I distinctly remember watching the cat owners handing over the day's
kill at the front door to the collectors after having stored them in their
fridge overnight because it was just so revolting to think of that dead,
pest-ridden thing next to the cheddar and Milties's pork pies, even if it was
in a plastic bag. It was found that the kills were just bored kitty play
things and totally unnecessary as food. The study did not include
effect on blood pressure rates of irate gardening neighbours.
Wendy
Alberta Canada Zone 3
Chad James Segura
A. Veller (ave...@vnet3.vub.ac.be) wrote:
: In article <4tlpmp$n...@news.ecn.bgu.edu>, uvel...@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Vicki
: Elberfeld) wrote:
: > A. Veller (ave...@vnet3.vub.ac.be) wrote:
: > : In article <31FCF3...@xtraonline.com>, Jack Dingler
: > : <ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
: > But at base it's really about property rights. Whether people have the
: > right to keep their pets on other people's property.
: Ah but then in Belgium we have no choice but to tolerate them. They have
Last I heard, Belgium is a democracy, so you can do something---lobby to
have this stupid law changed. I'm surprised that other countries in the
EEC put up with this.
: the legal status of "half-wild animal" which means that they can be
: domesticated, but when they are running around freely they are considered
: to fall under the hunting laws (game). Cats are classified as a not to be
: hunted species.
: So basically here at least there is not much you can do if your
: neighbour's cat is savaging your garden, but to deter it without harming
: it.
If you're willing to risk the consequences of getting caught, you could
still get rid of the cats. However, I'm speaking as an American, where
property rights are almost sacrosanct (and most of us have a bit of the
rebel in us).
Chad
Jim McLaughlin
In <aveller-0108...@tregsmc1.vub.ac.be>
ave...@vnet3.vub.ac.be (A. Veller) writes:
>
>In article <wmcgough.3...@dres.dnd.ca>, wmcg...@dres.dnd.ca
(Wendy
>McGough) wrote:
>
>> In article <aveller-3007...@tregsmc1.vub.ac.be>
>ave...@vnet3.vub.ac.be (A. Veller) writes:
>was also said that the cats equally function as pest controls.
Interesting. While at the U. of Minn. 30 some years ago I read a
study that showed cats to be a major factor in the control of
grashoppers (significant to U.S. Midwesterners) as well as other
insects, moths and the like. A second,perhaps minor point: problems
with large dogs damaging gardens and harassing, killing birds and
wildlife doesn't seem to be the emotional trigger that cats, raccoons,
squirrels are. Perhaps it's how you view your garden: enough for all to
be welcome (kids too) or something to be defended.
Rae
Vancouver, B.C.
Chad James Segura
A. Veller (ave...@vnet3.vub.ac.be) wrote:
: > >Every coin has its flip side, and natural ecology is not as easy and
: > >straightforward as it seems.
: > 100% true! But cats have nothing to do with natural ecosystems -
: > they, like dogs, have been completely domesticated, and it's only the
: > overflow that run wild.
: The point of the programme that I mentioned in my post suggested exactly
: the opposite. The gist of the conclusion was: we might think that
: domesticated cats do nothing fo our ecosystem, but in fact they do a lot.
: The bulk of the effect quoted was positive.
How well can you read? The answerer understood your point and counterpointed
that the effects were not positive.
: These are not my conclusions, they were the conclusion of the study
: conducted by the British scientist. (I wish I could provide correct
: pointers).
This study was recently discussed by posters in rec.birds. The study's
conclusions were counter to almost all other British studies on the topic.
You selectively used one study to make your point.
: I know that your reactions are not against cats, and although I have a cat
: (which I keep *inside*) I am not a fanatic. Sometimes it's necessary to
: pull out the squirt gun and on some occasions I would even consider the
: local fire depts. fire hose :-)
: All I want to say is that what we think is true is not necessarily true in
: reality. Isn't it also popular belief that people can catch a cold when
: they go outside with wet hair?
And this must mean that what you think is true is also not necessarily true
in reality.
: So: Here's a study claiming that *in the UK* loose domestic cats do a lot
: *for* the ecosystem. I know they have had a nasty effect on australian
: wildlife e.g., but maybe its still something to consider in your ara. (We
: could all start a local experiment and compare notes with the original
: scientist, I'm sure he'd love that!).
The experiment goes on every day in my neighborhood, something I am trying
to stop by trapping, education, etc.
Remind me to skip Belgium on my next European tour.
Chad
Jack Dingler
HubbaTubbaBubba wrote:
>
> Jack Dingler <ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
> < Lotsa snips >
>
> >Yeah! I agree! And to whoever keeps feeding my black & white tomcat. Stop
> >it so maybe he'll stay around some!
>
> Yeah! I agree with Tom to, even that last statement. Now this other
> person ought to keep the cat in the house and you wouldn't have that
> problem, rather the other people wouldn't have that problem! Here's
> hopeing your cat returns one more time and then meets its demise at
> the hands of the 'wildlife' the next time out visiting the
> 'ecosystem'.
I've lost a few Tom's in my life, but I doubt that any eco-system ever
had anything to do with it. Usually cats in the city are taken out with
cars and .22s.
On a side note... We have a local wilderness preserve decorated with
hundreds of beer bottles. Funny how humans feel the need to trash every
ecosystem they visit.
Vicki Elberfeld
: ...A second,perhaps minor point: problems
: with large dogs damaging gardens and harassing, killing birds and
: wildlife doesn't seem to be the emotional trigger that cats, raccoons,
: squirrels are. Perhaps it's how you view your garden: enough for all to
: be welcome (kids too) or something to be defended.
This one's simple. Most people don't leave their dogs free to roam the
neighborhood. When they do, people do get upset at damage they cause.
Also, in my experience, dogs don't kill nearly as many creatures, and dogs
are more interested in the killing than in the torture foreplay that cats
love so much. Also, dogs have a passion about their killing, while cats
have a cold blooded, vivisectionist's attitude.
- Tom
A. Veller
> In article <aveller-3007...@tregsmc1.vub.ac.be>
ave...@vnet3.vub.ac.be (A. Veller) writes:
>
>
> >(1) No I cannot give an exact quote for the study, but it was conducted by
> >a investigative science teacher who set up an experiment which involved
> >all the people in a selected area in rurla UK. They were asked to keep all
> >the animals that their cats brought home from their hunts, after which
> >these animals were determined and catalogued. I saw a programme about this
> >guy several times on TV (BBC). Someone else might remember the details.
>
> I saw this show as well, but I came away with a totally different
perspective.
> I was under the impression that this study proved that cats were doing a lot
> of damage to the local song bird population, and that in England people
> are now being encouraged to restrain their little kitties somehow, or at
least
> give the birds some warning by having the cats wear a bell.
I remember they said that in some areas this was indeed a problem, but it
was also said that the cats equally function as pest controls.
Different show
> maybe? I distinctly remember watching the cat owners handing over the day's
> kill at the front door to the collectors after having stored them in their
> fridge overnight because it was just so revolting to think of that dead,
> pest-ridden thing next to the cheddar and Milties's pork pies, even if it was
> in a plastic bag.
I think they stored it in the deepfreeze actually, which would not give
the pests a big chnce of doing any harm :-)
It was found that the kills were just bored kitty play
> things and totally unnecessary as food. The study did not include
> effect on blood pressure rates of irate gardening neighbours.
Yes of course they are unneccessary as food, but even so the killings may
serve a purpose. If we would feed all the bees in the world sugarwater it
would be totally unneccessary for them to visit flowers for food, but the
flowers would have a hard time propagating if they didn't.
If a cat kills one hatchling out of four, this means three healthier
chicks. If the cat kills three out of four, this means the birds have a
problem. the question is to assess the situation correctly and not go
hysterical over one dead birdie, hower sad the sight may be. Its death may
well have saved the other birds from starvation or poor health.
Anyway, back to gardening!
(We are having a terrible drought here in Belgium, my plants are all
suffering :-()
ben...@pipeline.com
nobody needs to feed your tomcat to cause it to stay away from home.
tomcats naturally stray away on extended visits, eating vermin and/or
trash, visiting in-heat females. they go where they want, and come home
when they want. because of that, they are naturally going to come in
contact with bee-bees, flying rocks, boots, etc. cat owners who are stupid
enough to keep an un-neutered pet should be prepared to deal with their
cat's injuries, and their neighbor's outrage. I wish there was a pesticide
(peticide) that could be used to exterminate the cats and dogs that use my
yard for recreational purposes. keep your pets at home and they won't get
hurt. same thing goes for your children, by the way!
Kellie Sisson Snider
> > >Yeah! I agree! And to whoever keeps feeding my black & white tomcat. Stop
> > >it so maybe he'll stay around some!
> I've lost a few Tom's in my life, but I doubt that any eco-system ever
> had anything to do with it. Usually cats in the city are taken out with
> cars and .22s.
I'm sticking my neck out here. Get your cat neutered immediately. If
you want to know why, go to the pound and count the kittens and cats on
death row. I used to volunteer at an ASPCA in New Orleans. They don't
save 'em just because they are cute, well bred, or because the Dad
needed to have sexual fulfillment. They kill them, even when they are
purring and trying to cuddle... and they incinerate the bodies. It's
not cute.
Kellie
Kellie Sisson Snider
Okay, all you people who are mad at cats, and those who are defending
them, sit down. This will take a minute, but it is important.
I adore cats. I have had them all my life. I grew up believing my
mother was right that it wasn't fair to keep a cat penned up inside,
but, later I learned about Feline Leukemia and other potentially
terminal feline diseases. When I got my most recent batch of cats 13
years ago I kept the three guys indoors, and took them outdoors only on
leashes, much to my neighbors' amusement.
Boyfriend, Bob B. and Kioki lived happy lives, and got their Feline
Leukemia vaccinesas soon as they were available. But once my kids
started running in and out of doors it became difficult to keep the cats
inside. I gave in and let the guys go out.
Boyfriend was my dearheart, my friend, my precious, my favorite of the
three. The other two were gotten only because Boy liked having other
cats around. He weighed 29 pounds and had no natural enemies. He
thought everyone was just good folks. The girls across the street
called him a Cog because he seemed to be half dog. He fetched, used a
toilet, and came when you called. When he went outside he would go no
further than the driveway, where he would roll around like a whale in
the sun, delighting neighbors who walked by when he meowed at them for
a petting.
Well, outdoor stray cats came and went, one of my own cats died of
cystitis, and one day Boy got sick. His shots were current. We took
him in to the vet, and after a series of tests we found out my sweet
friend had Feline AIDs. His immune system had shut down, and he was in
liver failure. I had a choice of keeping him alive for a few pathetic
months in pain, or putting him to sleep.
Feline AIDs is a contageous cat disease which he caught from some cat he
met outdoors. I held him when our wonderful, caring vet put him to
sleep on July first last year. I am having trouble writing this, even a
year later.
My final word is, cats are safer and healthier indoors. Boyfriend was
12. Maybe he wasn't a spring chirckn, but he would still be here if I
had kept him inside.
If you want a neighbors' cat out of your garden, share this post with
them. Our remaining cat, the most irritating and demanding of the
three, is strictly an indoor cat now, although he is ABOUT to get thrown
out if he doesn't SHUT UP!!! But it isn't fair to the cat OR the
neighbors to let him out.
Keep your cats indoors.
Just a long two cents.
Kellie
A. Veller
In article <4tqo49$2...@listserv.rice.edu>, seg...@rice.edu (Chad James
Segura) wrote:
> : The point of the programme that I mentioned in my post suggested exactly
> : the opposite. The gist of the conclusion was: we might think that
> : domesticated cats do nothing fo our ecosystem, but in fact they do a lot.
> : The bulk of the effect quoted was positive.
>
> How well can you read? The answerer understood your point and counterpointed
> that the effects were not positive.
My my, you are very friendly, aren't you. Somehow I feel that a polite
discussion would somehow be more appropriate, there might be a point in
what you are arguing, but somehow your tone does not encourage me to
listen.
> This study was recently discussed by posters in rec.birds. The study's
> conclusions were counter to almost all other British studies on the topic.
> You selectively used one study to make your point.
Not exactly, I just mentioned a TV show I saw. Not being selective at all.
Of course some people see a monster in every shadow.
> Remind me to skip Belgium on my next European tour.
Please do skip Belgium on your next tour, we'll all be very obliged :-)
one...@cris.com
A big bowl of anti freeze in your back yard will take care of the
problem nicely
Jack Dingler
Kellie Sisson Snider wrote:
>
>
> I'm sticking my neck out here. Get your cat neutered immediately. If
> you want to know why, go to the pound and count the kittens and cats on
> death row. I used to volunteer at an ASPCA in New Orleans. They don't
> save 'em just because they are cute, well bred, or because the Dad
> needed to have sexual fulfillment. They kill them, even when they are
> purring and trying to cuddle... and they incinerate the bodies. It's
> not cute.
>
I'm probably going to ruffle some feathers here. Apologies in advance.
Both my female cats are spayed. I'm not sure that neutering my tom will
reduce the local cat population. He hasn't gotten pregnate yet. But it
only takes one tom to impregnate many cats. And in my neighborhood,
there are lot's of toms including some strays that have proved difficult
to get rid of by any means short of gunfire. On the ASPCA front I agree
with you. That's why I had my cats spayed. I've been to the Irving pound
to pick up my tom once. It wasn't a pretty sight.
Now if we could get all the toms in the D/FW metroplex fixed, it would have
an impact. But as long as few don't get neutered (wild or not). Then no
single neutering of a tom will have any impact on whether unspayed females
get pregnant. An un-neutered tom from somewhere will always be ready for
the occasion.
Kellie Sisson Snider
> If you're willing to risk the consequences of getting caught, you could
> still get rid of the cats. However, I'm speaking as an American, where
> property rights are almost sacrosanct (and most of us have a bit of the
> rebel in us).
>
Here's what to do- legally.
Get a humane trap from the Humane Society, SPCA or City Pound. Put some
nice smelly tuna or other favorite cat tidbits inside. When the cat is
caught take it to it's owner. Tell them that the next time you will
allow the Humane Society to come and pick it up. MAYBE after they have
to spend $40 a few times to pick it up they will start being a little
more responsible. Of course if the pound gets it, or some SPCA
branches, the cat will only last 5 days or so.
A Cat lover,
Kellie
johanna stephenson
On Aug 02, 1996 15:51:03 in article <Re: My neighbors cat keeps CRAPPING in
Johanna Stephenson
Karen Kolling
In article <320212...@xtraonline.com>, Jack Dingler <ja...@xtraonline.com> writes:
|> I'm probably going to ruffle some feathers here. Apologies in advance.
|>
|> Both my female cats are spayed. I'm not sure that neutering my tom will
|> reduce the local cat population. He hasn't gotten pregnate yet. But it
|> only takes one tom to impregnate many cats. And in my neighborhood,
|> there are lot's of toms including some strays that have proved difficult
|> to get rid of by any means short of gunfire. On the ASPCA front I agree
|> with you. That's why I had my cats spayed. I've been to the Irving pound
|> to pick up my tom once. It wasn't a pretty sight.
|>
|> Now if we could get all the toms in the D/FW metroplex fixed, it would have
|> an impact. But as long as few don't get neutered (wild or not). Then no
|> single neutering of a tom will have any impact on whether unspayed females
|> get pregnant. An un-neutered tom from somewhere will always be ready for
|> the occasion.
An additional reason for neutering toms is that they will "mark"
neighborhood territory with urine sprays, such as your neighbor's
doors, etc. Also unneutered male cats are more prone to get into
territorial fights, with resultant damage to themselves and other
cats.
Neefer Duir
Jack Dingler <ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
>If my cat is neutered and home, this will provide an example? Stop other toms
>from going out?
Gee, and I thought it was the human owners of the cats that roam that
were controlling whether a cat goes out or not. So you would serve
as an example to other owners.
Well, at least, at my house, I control whether the cats go out, or dogs,
for that matter.
So yes, your example would serve to show other people that you can be
responsible about your cat. Altho, as long as you don't mind animals
crapping where ever they want, how about publishing your address, so we
can all bring our pets over to poop in your yard?
--
Jennifer in California | When a person can no longer laugh at
oak...@aimnet.com | himself, it is time for others to laugh
http://www.aimnet.com/~oaktree/ | at him. -Thomas Szasz
Thomas Dyson
In article <32023D...@worldnet.att.net>,
Kellie Sisson Snider <Kel...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> A big bowl of anti freeze in your back yard will take care of the
>> problem nicely
>
>still do the job.
>
>Kellie
I don't suppose you have tried talking to your neighbors about the problem?
Our next door neighbors had two small, yappy, vicious dogs that used to crawl
under the fence from their yard to our yard. We let them know they were
doing it and the very next weekend they were out lining their side of the
fence with chicken wire. I don't think most people really consider what
affect their actions (or lack of) will have on others. But I also think most
people are reasonable and will try to find a compromise. Naive maybe, but it
works for me :-)
Veronica
Jack Dingler
Kellie Sisson Snider wrote:
> < Snip >
Not trying to argue or get anyone upset. (But probably doing it anyway)
> >And in my neighborhood,
> > there are lot's of toms including some strays that have proved difficult
> > to get rid of by any means short of gunfire.
>
> Get a humane trap and have them removed.
We have one stray local stray that has avoided traps for three years. A
neighbor has trapped and shot a lot of other cats, but never had any luck with
this particular one.
I'm not advocating my neighbor's behaviour. Rumour has it that he was arrested
not long ago and now takes trapped cats to the pound.
>
> Then no
> > single neutering of a tom will have any impact on whether unspayed females
> > get pregnant. An un-neutered tom from somewhere will always be ready for
> > the occasion.
>
> Yes, but your unneutered male will ... read my first parapgraph again.
>
>
> Sorry, Jack, but it's the pet owner's responsibility NOT to add to the
> problem. I never allow a pet of mine to get older than 6 months without
> being neutered. My rabbits are even neutered, and they were neutered at
> 2 months... since that's when they start to breed. It makes better
> pets, keeps them safer, keeps them HOME, and keeps your neighbors from
> knocking your BLOCK off. Or the CAT's.
> < snip >
>
> Kellie
If my cat is neutered and home, this will provide an example? Stop other toms
from going out? In the wild, your argument makes a lot of sense. Territories
are farther apart. In urban areas, territories are artificially determined by
humans. Wild cats would never stake territories as small as the distance
between two apartment doors. In the wild mating is usually a one to one
relationship. In domesticated settings it tends to be many to one. No single
tom has enough influence to drive away all the toms in a multi-block area.
Mine certainly doesn't. As a result. When a female cat from a not so
responsible family of humans goes into heat, she will attract many toms who all
wait around for their turn. This rarely happens in the wild.
My point? If I neuter or get rid of my tom, the chances of a female cat
loose and in heat in my neighborhood getting pregnant are still 100%.
Now if every tom in the D/FW metroplex was neutered, then no one would have
any need to spay their cats.
My tom may get neutered someday. I've advocated it for a while. My wife is
resisting the idea however. Lately though she's started getting tired of
helping me patch him up. But if we do then it won't be to help neighbors
avoid spaying their cats. Like I said, my tom has never gotten pregnant.
Sorry if I've upset you.
--
_ ___
/ \/ \ Jack Dingler
##=========(=)[| Dallas, Tx
\_/\___/ JDin...@onramp.net
Mr & Mrs Swillmaster & Son
cats. I love my garden, I love the songbirds, I tolerate the local
kids, and I get a great deal of pleasure from my cats and dog. It
pisses me off when my cats dig in the garden, which they rarely do.
It upsets me when they catch birds, which they rarely do. And yes,
if your cat comes in my yard, I'll try to pat it, not kill it.
The most chilling instance of nature at work regarding birds, to me,
was during last winter, when I was feeding the birds during heavy
snows and a local hawk decided my feeders were his salad bar. Only
he wasn't eating the seed, he was attacking and killing, as viciously
as any cat would, the smaller birds.
Sarah K.
Kellie Sisson Snider
Kellie Sisson Snider
Jack Dingler wrote:
>
> Kellie Sisson Snider wrote:
> >
> >
> >Get your cat neutered immediately. If
> > you want to know why, go to the pound and count the kittens and cats on
> > death row.
> Both my female cats are spayed. I'm not sure that neutering my tom will
> reduce the local cat population. He hasn't gotten pregnate yet.
>But it
> only takes one tom to impregnate many cats.
One tom can impregnate several cats a day. Each of these cats can
produce three litters or more a year. Each litter will contain an
average of 4 or 5 kittens. Each of those kittens can begin to reproduce
within nine months. Neutering DOES reduce cat populations. In fact,
one of the most effective cat population reduction devices is to neuter
feral cats and return them to the places from which they came. This way
new cats will not move into the territory and start the problem over
again.
>And in my neighborhood,
> there are lot's of toms including some strays that have proved difficult
> to get rid of by any means short of gunfire.
Get a humane trap and have them removed.
Then no
> single neutering of a tom will have any impact on whether unspayed females
> get pregnant. An un-neutered tom from somewhere will always be ready for
> the occasion.
Yes, but your unneutered male will ... read my first parapgraph again.
Sorry, Jack, but it's the pet owner's responsibility NOT to add to the
problem. I never allow a pet of mine to get older than 6 months without
being neutered. My rabbits are even neutered, and they were neutered at
2 months... since that's when they start to breed. It makes better
pets, keeps them safer, keeps them HOME, and keeps your neighbors from
knocking your BLOCK off. Or the CAT's.
Call the D/FW Humane Society and ask about low cost spaying and
neutering. They will connect you with someone who can get the job for
$25. (Usually more like $95 these days.) It's WORTH it.
Kellie
one...@cris.com
On 2 Aug 1996 01:06:20 GMT, ben...@pipeline.com wrote:
>nobody needs to feed your tomcat to cause it to stay away from home.
>tomcats naturally stray away on extended visits, eating vermin and/or
>trash, visiting in-heat females. they go where they want, and come home
>when they want. because of that, they are naturally going to come in
>contact with bee-bees, flying rocks, boots, etc. cat owners who are stupid
>enough to keep an un-neutered pet should be prepared to deal with their
>cat's injuries, and their neighbor's outrage. I wish there was a pesticide
>(peticide) that could be used to exterminate the cats and dogs that use my
>yard for recreational purposes. keep your pets at home and they won't get
>hurt. same thing goes for your children, by the way!
I was just kidding about the anti-freeze... But some neighbors wont
cooperate at all. My neighbors dog was using my front yard as its
personal potty so I left a note next door telling them that our
community has a leash law and that I would report the pet if it
continued. This didnt work. The next day there was more, I scooped
up a few piles and placed them nicley on the Neighbors front door and
a note saying " Your dog forgot these in my yard. " Later that day
the neighbor came into my front yard and cleaned all the mess he could
find.
CEL
> I was just kidding about the anti-freeze... But some neighbors wont
> cooperate at all. My neighbors dog was using my front yard as its
> personal potty so I left a note next door telling them that our
> community has a leash law and that I would report the pet if it
> continued. This didnt work. The next day there was more, I scooped
> up a few piles and placed them nicley on the Neighbors front door and
> a note saying " Your dog forgot these in my yard. " Later that day
> the neighbor came into my front yard and cleaned all the mess he could
> find.
Sounds like this worked just fine (and funny too). However, it only works
if you can figure out *whose* dog it was.
CEL
--
Zone 5/6 (sometimes even 7), intermountain region, Western USA
What this means is dry, with extremes in temp!
"This is a professional. Do not try this in your own home."
CEL
In article <320250...@xtraonline.com>, Jack Dingler
<ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
> If my cat is neutered and home, this will provide an example? Stop other toms
> from going out?
I think that you may be missing the point. The point which I think that
people are making in this thread (gradually), is that a pet's owner/friend
is responsible for the pet. An animal cannot be held responsible for it's
actions, but the owner can. No, your tom doesn't get pregnant. Also,
your tom is not setting an example to other cats (that's a bit silly, I
think). However, as the owner (or friend) of this cat, you *are* setting
an example to others in your neighborhood. The example is to spay or
neuter their cats/dogs/whatevers (and up here, some people "own" cougars,
boa constrictors, coyotes, etc. (when someone's cougar gets lose and does
what a cougar does, does that mean that the owner shouldn't be liable?)).
Finally, I find your arguement about the male/female issue rather
interesting. Are you saying that females (and females only) are
responsible for reproduction? How intrigueing and quaint. . .
By the way, I spay my cat, but still have other people's cats coming into
my yard (which is her territory). She has been trained not to leave *her*
territory (yes folks, it is possible to train a cat: you don't even have
to abuse them to do so). If I was living in an apartment, I would keep
her inside. This is called responsible pet ownership (although I would
contest that I own her). And my neighbor's dogs do a lot more damage
running loose, than my neighbor's cats. Unfortunately here, I never can
catch them in the act, as I have to work sometimes. In fact, sometimes I
think that their owners encourage them to go in my yard.
Oh well, enough griping: I think that I'll get back to the gardening
items (more fun, you understand).
Jack Dingler
CEL wrote:
< Snips >
> Finally, I find your arguement about the male/female issue rather
> interesting. Are you saying that females (and females only) are
> responsible for reproduction? How intrigueing and quaint. . .
With humans, this isn't a good argument at all. As far as I know,
Homo Sapiens are the only species that would choose not to follow the
innate drive to procreate. My argument was to only be interpreted based
on the mental capabilities of 'animals'. Thinking that a male animal
would choose not to procreate, out some sense of responsibility is itself
'quaint'. I spayed both of my female cats. Simply telling the toms in
the neighborhood not to impregnate them would be stupid.
>
> By the way, I spay my cat, but still have other people's cats coming into
> my yard (which is her territory). She has been trained not to leave *her*
> territory (yes folks, it is possible to train a cat: you don't even have
> to abuse them to do so). If I was living in an apartment, I would keep
> her inside. This is called responsible pet ownership (although I would
> contest that I own her). And my neighbor's dogs do a lot more damage
> running loose, than my neighbor's cats. Unfortunately here, I never can
> catch them in the act, as I have to work sometimes. In fact, sometimes I
> think that their owners encourage them to go in my yard.
>
How did you train your cats? Mine just started hanging around as a result of
spaying. I had a tom years ago that was neutered. He still constantly wandered
off and kept getting himself injured. The neutering had no visible affect on his
disposition. But maybe neighbors thought as they tried to run him over in the
road, "That cat has been neutered. What a responsible owner! I'll go neuter my
tom right now!".
As far as setting examples... I never litter. When I go to parks, I actually
clean up some of the garbage left around by other people. I have yet to see a
sign that this has provided an example to anyone. Even some of the children I've
tried to teach to do these things, still throw litter out the window when they
think no one is looking or their parents are with them (I have no children of my
own. So my influence is limited).
It's funny, that I've made some (what I thought were) tongue in cheek comments
and as a result have become a very irresponsible pet owner and gotten some really
rude remarks in return. Silly me.
Well back to cleaning my friends cigarette butts out my garden...
--
_ ___
/ \/ \ Jack Dingler | "You can disagree,
##=========(=)[| Irving, Tx | but please don't hold no grudge."
\_/\___/ JDin...@onramp.net | Clarence Gatemouth Brown
David Savage
I'm just at a loss.
dave
FES Network Administrator = Garry
This thread seems to appear on a regular basis, and probably will for a long time.
Here is my two cents worth:
The cat's owner is responsible to control the cat's actions PERIOD!!!!!!!!!
If the owner refuses to or is unable to than the person who is on the
receiving end of the cat's poor manners should do what ever they have to,
to eliminate the problem. If the person prefers to ignore it fine, I however
choose to eliminate the problem. Several options are handy, trap the cat and
take it to the pound, buy a paint ball gun and shoot the cat maybe the owner
will get the hint the cat is going where he is not wanted, shoot the cat with
a bb gun, etc.
The bottom line is the owner has to responsible dont make other people live
with the your decision of letting the cat out. I have a cat who used to be
an outdoor cat and she has made a perfect transition to an indoor cat with no
problems.
TubbaBubba
dcs...@itw.com (David Savage) wrote:
>I'm just at a loss.
>dave
Try the FBI, they'll help you find yourself.
... If you can train them to crap in your compost pile ... everyone
would be happy!!! ... tell 'em the woodchucks in your garden are
color-blind and a fleshy round butt looks just the same as a tomatoe
(Indiannian spelling...) in the moonlight... while entertaining your
neighbors with grizzly stories of squirrles devouring nuts, mention
they are night feeders, hunt in packs, have buck-teeth, are tree
climbing rats... tell 'em about your uncle who has two cracks, one
real and one gouged out by our buck-tooth buddies...
Hope this helps...
TubbaBubba
Kellie Snider
Some cats will not LIKE it, but the previous writer is correct. It's
the owner who is the problem, not the cat. I like the paint gun
solution, but I hope no one will use a BB gun on them. My uncle uses a
shot gun and this is VERY frowned upon. My cousin has great success
putting moth balls around her fence. Cats hate the smell, and her own
cats never go outside so it's no problem for them.
--
Kellie
My Karma ran over my Dogma.
It was a Catastrophe.
Kellie Snider
> Now with doors and windows open (Still our electric bill is $100/month more than
> in winter), how do I keep cats in?
Duct tape.
Jack Dingler
FES Network Administrator = Garry wrote:
>
> This thread seems to appear on a regular basis, and probably will for a long time.
>
> Here is my two cents worth:
>
> The cat's owner is responsible to control the cat's actions PERIOD!!!!!!!!!
> If the owner refuses to or is unable to than the person who is on the
> receiving end of the cat's poor manners should do what ever they have to,
> to eliminate the problem. If the person prefers to ignore it fine, I however
> choose to eliminate the problem. Several options are handy, trap the cat and
> take it to the pound, buy a paint ball gun and shoot the cat maybe the owner
> will get the hint the cat is going where he is not wanted, shoot the cat with
> a bb gun, etc.
>
> The bottom line is the owner has to responsible dont make other people live
> with the your decision of letting the cat out. I have a cat who used to be
> an outdoor cat and she has made a perfect transition to an indoor cat with no
> problems.
Hmmmm... Something has occurred to me. Not everyone in the U.S. is enjoying
the Texas heat right now. $200+/month air conditioning costs aren't experienced
everywhere. We leave doors and windows open during the day because we can't
afford to run the air conditioner 24 hrs/day in the old poorly insulated house
built in an era before air conditioning became widespread. Even though we're
only renting, I checked to see what would be required to do some minimal
insulating. It looks very difficult to do. The walls are cedar planks. It
isn't a modern consruction marvel. I was relieved to find copper wiring though.
Now with doors and windows open (Still our electric bill is $100/month more than
in winter), how do I keep cats in? Screens? Hehehehe! Lots O' Screens! Lots O'
installs.
In the D/FW metroplex, these homes are common. We could create an ordinance to
tear them all down I guess. Then 24/hr air-conditioning would be more affordable.
Now comparing all the damage caused by cats against the damage caused by rats,
which is better? Some digging in the garden or bubonic plague epidemics? Yes
Texas does have the plague. As does California, New Mexico and Arizona. Keeping
rat populations down helps keep it under control. Of course the exterminators
can come out and fumigate once a month. They'd need to do parks and local
woodlands too though. Not all plague carrying rats stay in houses.
Of course disease and plague are things of the past. Medievel worries, not relevent
to manicured lawns and fountains. :) Tongue in cheek here. Don't get upset.
Jack Dingler
Kellie Snider wrote:
>
> > Now with doors and windows open (Still our electric bill is $100/month more than
> > in winter), how do I keep cats in?
>
>
> --
> Kellie
>
> My Karma ran over my Dogma.
> It was a Catastrophe.
:) Just tape them to miscelaneous objects? Hmmmm.... We have ceiling fans....
--
_ ___
/ \/ \ Jack Dingler | "If the ladies don't find you
##=========(=)[| Irving, Tx | handsome, at least they'll find
\_/\___/ JDin...@onramp.net | you handy." - Red Green
Wilona1
In article <320B9A...@xtraonline.com>, Jack Dingler
<ja...@xtraonline.com> writes:
>:) Just tape them to miscelaneous objects? Hmmmm.... We have ceiling
>fans....
>
>
Huh?? Then with the cats taped to the ceiling fans and the fan running
(cats flying 'round and 'round), there would be cat crap and "rain" all
over! Boy, that sounds like fun!!!
Martha E. Knowles ***** Wil...@aol.com
Gardening: USDA Zone 9, Central Florida
Adopt a dog -- you'll never regret it!!!
Bill Jefferys
In article <320B85...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>, Kellie Snider
<Kel...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
#FES Network Administrator = Garry wrote:
#>
#> The cat's owner is responsible to control the cat's actions PERIOD!!!!!!!!!
#> If the owner refuses to or is unable to than the person who is on the
#> receiving end of the cat's poor manners should do what ever they have to,
#> to eliminate the problem. If the person prefers to ignore it fine, I however
#> choose to eliminate the problem. Several options are handy, trap the cat and
#> take it to the pound, buy a paint ball gun and shoot the cat maybe the owner
#> will get the hint the cat is going where he is not wanted, shoot the cat with
#> a bb gun, etc.
#
#Some cats will not LIKE it, but the previous writer is correct. It's
#the owner who is the problem, not the cat. I like the paint gun
#solution, but I hope no one will use a BB gun on them. My uncle uses a
#shot gun and this is VERY frowned upon. My cousin has great success
#putting moth balls around her fence. Cats hate the smell...
Well, what's a poor cat to do. Your owners hate cleaning out the litter
pan and you hate using it because it get "used" several times before it
does get cleaned out. I thought I had found a perfect solution...going
outside. Everybody was happy. Then "they" decided that I couldn't use
their veggie garden. But, but, but.....the soil is so nice and soft
there. Humans...they're impossible! My silly owners put up a screaming
noisy machine to keep me out. Some other animal got into the garden
anyway and dug things up. Boy were they pissed! Then they got this
spraying thing that turned on when it detected movement. Hee, hee. I
watched the female member of the household get sprayed a few times while
picking herbs...thought she could beat it! Later (mysteriously) the
sprayer got broken off and soaked everything for hours. I bet the female
did it!
Now if I go looking for a place to relieve myself, I make the neighbors
mad and those folks want to cause bodily harm! Actually I don't go
visiting because I'm the whimp of the neighborhood and the other cats beat
me up. I now use a non food garden at home and everybody's happy again.
Mopp, the cat (I figured out how to get into the computer by watching the
humans around here. The pass word was easy to figure out! You guys have
no imagination!)
--
Bill Jefferys/Department of Astronomy/University of Texas/Austin, TX 78712
E-mail: bi...@clyde.as.utexas.edu | URL: http://quasar.as.utexas.edu
Finger for PGP Key: F7 11 FB 82 C6 21 D8 95 2E BD F7 6E 99 89 E1 82
CEL
In article <320A2A...@xtraonline.com>, Jack Dingler
<ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
> How did you train your cats? Mine just started hanging around as a result of
> spaying.
Dear Jack:
Let us suppose that I basically agree with you (and I do). The problem is
that if you truly love your animal companion (and think of it as a friend)
you may need to consider that someone will eventually try to harm your
friend because they are mad (by the way, I also find that my cat doesn't
like to scratch in mud-- maybe keeping the garden watered would work?)
I can't tell you how to train your cat. With each cat that I have had, I
used different methods. Just like human children, cats (and dogs) are
individuals. The cat that I have now is super intelligent and very easy
to train. For everything that I forbid, there is something that I allow.
Still, some training is difficult. She learned (for instance) not to go
into the road by being hit (and luckily living through it. In the garden,
there are areas that are hers. She (and other, visiting cats) have tall
grass to play in, and generally she doesn't want to stray. The reason
that I feel the way that I do, by the way is that my last cat was killed
by a dog (I think that this was encouraged by the owners (adolescent
boys)). As I lived by a park at that time, and she was killed in my yard,
she had done nothing to get the treatment that she did. I don't think
that cats/dogs are *cute* little adorable things, but they are friends and
they suffer a lot in this world (without us making it harder for them.
CEL
PS: I think that it was difficult, if not impossible to tell that your
comments were make tongue in cheek. Perhaps it is because of the nature
of this thread.
--
zone 5/6 (and on occasion even seven) USDA, Western USA -- intermountain reagion (meaning dry, dry, dry).
It's not always dry, where it's dry. . .
Dana Wright
David Savage wrote:
>
> I'm just at a loss.
Adopt some snakes.
Alan Fraser
>> I'm just at a loss.
>
tricky.
Alan Fraser
E-mail: a_fr...@one.net
Home Page: http://w3.one.net/~a_fraser
Wilona1
In article <32169A...@discover.net>, Dana Wright <den...@discover.net>
writes:
>Adopt some snakes.
>
>
Today's newspaper has a good cartoon story about "Here's Jake" --- he
comes across this guy looking for something in the woods bordering the
golf course. Assuming the guy is looking for a golf ball, Jake offers to
help. In the process, he asks where the guy thinks his ball is, where did
he hit it from. They guy says "Oh, I'm not playing golf ... I just moved
into that house over there ... and my pet cobra got away!"
MarkA
In article <32169A...@discover.net>,
Dana Wright <den...@discover.net> wrote:
>David Savage wrote:
>>
>> I'm just at a loss.
>
Why can't your neighbors crap in their own yard? Shoot them with a BB gun in
the ass, that should stop them.
MarkA