Chrerry Tree Infested w/ Ants or Termites?
Mike
carpenter ants.
I noticed at the bottom of tree what appeared to be sawdust, cleaned it up
and the next day it was back.
Today I sprayed Bonide Termite and Carpenter Ant Killer into the two holes
they were using and the critters poured out of the tree. They appear to
have two parts to the body (part near the head is smaller than the part at
the rear and fairly large head wiith good sized pinchers. The Bonide spray
seems to work but I suspect they'll just burrow into the tree at a another
location how do I permantely get rid of them?
Thanks,
Mike
symplastless
"Mike" <12...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:yG5ti.56$jk4.21@trndny01...
> Hi, I've got a large cherry tree that's infested with either termites or
> carpenter ants.
> I noticed at the bottom of tree what appeared to be sawdust, cleaned it up
> and the next day it was back
Sounds like carpenter ants. The dust is from their galleries. They control
the environment inside the tree by limiting moisture. Too wet or too dry
stalls the decay pathogen. In this sense ants are a benefit for the tree.
They stay within boundaries set by the tree after wounding.
.
> Today I sprayed Bonide Termite and Carpenter Ant Killer into the two holes
> they were using and the critters poured out of the tree. They appear to
> have two parts to the body (part near the head is smaller than the part at
> the rear and fairly large head wiith good sized pinchers. The Bonide
> spray seems to work but I suspect they'll just burrow into the tree at a
> another location how do I permantely get rid of them?
Ants are good guys. Leave them alone. Even if you have them in your house,
the reason would be rotten wood in your house. They stall the rot process
in building materials as well.
termites also respect boundaries set by the tree. If you are in the south
many times the problem which caused the termites to be present was flush cut
pruning.
Your description does not sound like ants.
As far as your use of pesticides, user beware.
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/spring.html the web site is down right now.
try later or go here
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/
You really need to let a professional diagnose your issue rather than
applying toxins and then asking questions.
Anyway, the cause of the issue with the presence or organisms is wounds to
the tree. Even termites follow wounds and stay in chemically altered wood
from the wound.
symplastless
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
"symplastless" <sympla...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zImdnbYZwYeAZCnb...@comcast.com...
symplastless
1. Diagnose
2. Treat
3. Access
The problem you made was you treated, now you are trying to diagnose.
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
"symplastless" <sympla...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:cKednfb2tYDDZCnb...@comcast.com...
symplastless
have addressed these issues you should be in good shape.
Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case
Sensitive.
Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html
Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub1.html
and
Look up "Tree Planting" http://www.treedictionary.com
Improper Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html
and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"
Improper Pruning
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning
Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry)
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html
Tree Farming and Related Problems
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/
Paul Cassel
>
> Ants are good guys. Leave them alone. Even if you have them in your house,
> the reason would be rotten wood in your house. They stall the rot process
> in building materials as well.
>
I 100% agree in leaving ants alone if at all possible. I am skeptical
about your statement implying that they only come into your house if
there is rotting wood. I'm also skeptical that they halt the rotting
process. How does the formic acid ants exude do that? I'd think it
further breaks down the lignite in the wood - that is ants destroy wood
rather than make it last longer.
Near me there is an ancient Indian city named by the whites Chaco
Canyon. Abandoned by Indians due to changed climate (dried out) you can
go there and find large pieces of wood which were trees over 700 years
ago. The ranger there told me that the wood still exists because there
are no ants (no water) to digest the wood. Was that information wrong?
-paul
Lar
tree...they are not killing your tree but excavating in already
diseased/rotted wood. They are just a symptom of another issue.
Lar
Lar
>
> Ants are good guys. Leave them alone. Even if you have them in your house,
> the reason would be rotten wood in your house. They stall the rot process
> in building materials as well.
>
Thinking you are meaning carpenter ants here but even then 85%-90% of
all carpenter ant work I do in homes has nothing to do with wood at all
much less wet/rotting wood and the c-ant nest that I find around wood is
more so for the hollow void rather than it being wet. (hollow core doors
& crown molding are usually the culprits)
Lar
symplastless
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
"Paul Cassel" <pcassel...@comremovecast.net> wrote in message
news:qJOdna-PLcyMjivb...@comcast.com...
Mike
Mike
It gets worse in that I sprayed Bonide Termite and Carpenter Ant Killer
into an opening in the tree which caused the ants to rpidly exit the tree
and I suspect the carpenter ants won't ever return to inside the tree
because of the spray and the spray may hurt the tree. Is it possible that
fungus could be in the tree? Fungus is on the outside of the tree.
Lar
>
> It gets worse in that I sprayed Bonide Termite and Carpenter Ant Killer
> into an opening in the tree which caused the ants to rpidly exit the tree
> and I suspect the carpenter ants won't ever return to inside the tree
> because of the spray and the spray may hurt the tree. Is it possible that
> fungus could be in the tree? Fungus is on the outside of the tree.
>
>
The Bonide Termite and Carpenter Ant Killer looks to be a couple of
pyrethroids, which breaks down so ants probably could be back in within
a couple of months, hard to say. Fungi infected wood probably was what
gave the ants a place to nest to begin with. The fungus will be in parts
of the wood that are staying wet, not sure if there any way to avoid
such areas in any large tree.
Lar
symplastless
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
"Lar" <lar...@tx.rrBUGS.com> wrote in message
news:46b67839$0$4862$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Mike
> Why not just cut the tree down and be done with the ants?
>
weeks then burn it then plow the ground.
Mike
> Mike wrote:
>
> The Bonide Termite and Carpenter Ant Killer looks to be a couple of
> pyrethroids, which breaks down so ants probably could be back in within a
> couple of months, hard to say. Fungi infected wood probably was what gave
> the ants a place to nest to begin with. The fungus will be in parts of the
> wood that are staying wet, not sure if there any way to avoid such areas
> in any large tree.
>
> Lar
Several years ago, beofre I bought the house someone and trimmed it
resulting in several places on the trunk that are entrance points for the
ants.I think the tree has fungus inside and the ants were probably carrying
out the rotten wood.
Billy Rose
wrote:
Not in a hurry to replant then are you?
--
FB - FFF
symplastless
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
"Billy Rose" <ros...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:rosefam-60C895...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
Mike
> Why should he? Trees have ants.
next time I'll check w/ this group before doing anything.
I hope the tree survives and the ants return to their home.
Ann
>Why should he? Trees have ants.
Healthy trees do not have ants. Trees that are compromised in some
way have ants. If you were any kind of an arborist you'd know that.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************
symplastless
compartmentalization or decay in trees is a must. Trees wall off areas and
within the areas the wood is symplastless. A new tree grows around the old
tree every year. You really need to understand CODIT which means
compartmentalization of decay in trees, to understand the role of ants. Do
you also proclaim that a healthy tree has no relationship with fungus as
well? Why without mycorrhizae many trees would not maintain a symplast.
Ants and trees have been around long before us and will remain an associate
of trees when we are long gone. Ants stay the decay pathogen which can lead
to a healthy tree. I mean healthy in a mechanical manner as well as a
biological manner.
Look at this.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/HTMLFILES/ants-cavities.html
Do you think we need to kill Pileated wood peckers?
No, ants and trees and wood peckers get along fine.
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
"Ann" <ann...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:9mqkb3h3f3gvjf6nl...@4ax.com...
symplastless
> Several years ago, beofre I bought the house someone and trimmed it
> resulting in several places on the trunk that are entrance points for the
> ants.
If they made flush cuts and used wound dressing I am sure you got rot. Just
the flush cut alone will stimulate decay because it removes the collar of
branch and truck tissue collectively termed the branch collar. The collar
has little chemical factories that resist the spread of pathogens into the
trees. If you remove the collar you remove this defense feature. In Texas,
years after years of flush cutting and applying wound dressing has really
stimulated oak wilt. If you want to make a home for small wildlife you can
make a flush cut and a cavity will form. Not good for the tree but good for
small wildlife.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning/index.html
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Ann
>In fact many healthy trees have ants. An understanding of
>compartmentalization or decay in trees is a must. Trees wall off areas and
>within the areas the wood is symplastless. A new tree grows around the old
>tree every year. You really need to understand CODIT which means
>compartmentalization of decay in trees, to understand the role of ants. Do
>you also proclaim that a healthy tree has no relationship with fungus as
>well? Why without mycorrhizae many trees would not maintain a symplast.
>Ants and trees have been around long before us and will remain an associate
>of trees when we are long gone. Ants stay the decay pathogen which can lead
>to a healthy tree. I mean healthy in a mechanical manner as well as a
>biological manner.
I give up. If you think trees with decay, fungus and ants are healthy
then you must be right.....ya.
Treelady
> "symplastless" <symplastl...@comcast.net> expounded:
>
> >In fact many healthytreeshave ants. An understanding of
> >compartmentalization or decay intreesis a must. Treeswall off areas and
> >within the areas the wood is symplastless. A new tree grows around the old
> >tree every year. You really need to understand CODIT which means
> >you also proclaim that a healthy tree has no relationship with fungus as
> >Ants andtreeshave been around long before us and will remain an associate
> >oftreeswhen we are long gone. Ants stay the decay pathogen which can lead
> >to a healthy tree. I mean healthy in a mechanical manner as well as a
> >biological manner.
>
> then you must be right.....ya.
> --
> Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
> South of Boston, Massachusetts
> e-mail address is not checked
> ******************************
He is correct: not all fungal activity is detrimental to trees. The
relationship between trees and fungii is complex.
Before insulting the integrity of someone, perhaps you should enhance
your own study, then you would be in a position to argue the point
with more grace and lucidity.
My practical experience (in south east of England) with Cherry trees
is they are poor compartmentalisers, and are notorious for rot when
wounded.
Cannot say anything about ants really, as I know little. Can say
though, I live in a house built in 1867, which was left unattended for
years ( became quite decrepit), was revamped, then not looked after
much, recently two different types of ants became visible, red and
black (with wings) both left small mounds of the substance in which
they were staying (brick, plaster etc.). It is entirely possible, and
probable that there is rotten wood in the house.
symplastless
As far as my DVD source goes, the ants stall decay or rot in building
products as well. The problem, in understanding the process is that the
research started with the product and not the trees. The good doctor did
his studies starting with the trees. When a wound takes place on the trunk,
a barrier zone is formed. The wood to the inside of that barrier zone is
chemically altered. It may not be noticable by the naked I but can be
detected with a SHIGOMETER. Termites and ants know, we do not know how they
know, that the wood is altered. That is the fisrt plave ants and termites
will go. Now the termites will eat the wood after they predigest it . The
ants do not eat wood they just push it out of their galleries. The
galleries control the environment inside the tree or building product. Too
wet or too dry will stall the decay pathogen. The galliers stall further
rot in trees and building products. It was verbally mentioned many times
that if it was not for the ants many trees would not be standing. We have
large woodpeckers here and they go after the ants.
As far as fungi, bacteria and others, here are some pithy points.
175. Less than 1% of the insects and fungi are harmful to humans. Think
about that when you use a product that kills everything.
We believe the fungi gain nutrients not only from the tree, but from dead
leaves and wood. This is why composted leaves and wood as mulch is so very
important for healthy trees.
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
"Treelady" <rebeccaw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186736344.9...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Treelady
> Treelady
>
> As far as my DVD source goes, the ants stall decay or rot in building
> products as well. The problem, in understanding the process is that the
> his studies starting with thetrees. When a wound takes place on the trunk,
> a barrier zone is formed. The wood to the inside of that barrier zone is
> chemically altered. It may not be noticable by the naked I but can be
> detected with a SHIGOMETER. Termites and ants know, we do not know how they
> know, that the wood is altered. That is the fisrt plave ants and termites
> will go. Now the termites will eat the wood after they predigest it . The
> ants do not eat wood they just push it out of their galleries. The
> galleries control the environment inside the tree or building product. Too
> wet or too dry will stall the decay pathogen. The galliers stall further
> that if it was not for the ants manytreeswould not be standing. We have
> large woodpeckers here and they go after the ants.
> As far as fungi, bacteria and others, here are some pithy points.
> 175. Less than 1% of the insects and fungi are harmful to humans. Think
> about that when you use a product that kills everything.
> We believe the fungi gain nutrients not only from the tree, but from dead
> leaves and wood. This is why composted leaves and wood as mulch is so very
> important for healthytrees.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> John A. Keslick, Jr.
> and www.treedictionary.com
> Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
> Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
> that we are not the boss.
>
> > Before insulting the integrity of someone, perhaps you should enhance
> > your own study, then you would be in a position to argue the point
> > with more grace and lucidity.
> > My practical experience (in south east of England) with Cherrytrees
> > is they are poor compartmentalisers, and are notorious for rot when
> > wounded.
> > Cannot say anything about ants really, as I know little. Can say
> > though, I live in a house built in 1867, which was left unattended for
> > years ( became quite decrepit), was revamped, then not looked after
> > much, recently two different types of ants became visible, red and
> > black (with wings) both left small mounds of the substance in which
> > they were staying (brick, plaster etc.). It is entirely possible, and
>
> - Show quoted text -
Symplastless: cheers. Just for the record, I never use anything that
kills everything.
philips...@gmail.com
Philip