Help w/Texas Sage!!
Joe Blow
several of these shrubs because I live in an area with poor
soil (sandy/silty) which I thought these things were
supposed to thrive in without continuous watering in the
excessive heat. In otherwords, basically bullet proof for
my conditions. The story so far:
I planted several plants last spring which required watering
several times a week all through fall to keep the leaves
from curling (it was afterall a hot dry summer here and
these were new bushes, but the amount of water seemed
excessive to me). I managed to keep them all alive but lost
about 5 through the winter (ugh!) somehow. Odd thing was
the ones I lost appeared to be among the healthiest plants
and the ones I expected to loose came back.
Currently, I have another five that look like they are about
to croak--the leaves on the bottom 2/3rds - 7/8's of the
plant never came back this spring and the remaining leaves
are very puny in comparison to the healthy ones. I also
have one shrub that has branches that look like a poodle
tail (only a few leaves on the very top). I have another
five that the leaves are turning yellow on me. I havn't
watered any of them yet this year and we have been dry for
close to a month now so I know the yellowing isn't too much
water.
Anyone know whats wrong??
**** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****
Renee
Joe Blow <anon...@web.remarq.com> wrote:
> Anyone know whats wrong??
No, but I have always found the Texas Sage hugely disappointing. I
finally decided it's because he's just a Texas Poop.
Um, we are talking about senile old guys, right?
:-)
Renee
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Susan Wehe
Very cute!!
Mr Blow,
In regards to the plant... We also planted some Texas sage or Cenizo
last spring. We watered maybe once a week even though we were
undergoing a drought to force the plants to expand their root system.
We didn't panic at the sign of wilt unless the plant showed no signs of
filling back out by the next morning. This year despite sometimes going
weeks without water, the plants are growing nicely and blooming
beautifully and we didn't lose a one. We did mulch with compost to give
the plants a boost and they seemed to appreciate it, but we didn't baby
them because we figured that in the long run that being rough on them
would toughen them up. Our soil btw is heavy clay and therefore holds
water better, except during droughts when it becomes rock hard and you
need a pickax to plant anything. Did I mention that the two oaks we
planted last summer were placed according to where the largest cracks
were in the ground? We couldn't dig a hole but we had huge gaps where
the soil had cracked and figured they'd do ok. They did and they too
are growing just fine :)
susan
m&v
left with after the builders come in and remove the top soil with the organic
matter. Most Texas soils only test out at approximately 3% organic matter.
Most sub-soils test out at 0%. Even though these plants are native, they were
originally grown in containers with nice rich organic matter. Plenty of force
feeding at the nursery where they were grown, and then you plant it into a hole
with virtually no organic matter, tight, tight, tight, and now you said you have
not watered it in a month during this heat?
It's a native, not a magician plant.
Sorry, conditions are not very good for a containerized plant.
Victoria
Joe Blow
here.
"Texas sage is native to Texas soils, not native to the
Texas sub soils we are left with after the builders come in
and remove the top soil with the organic matter. Most Texas
soils only test out at approximately 3% organic matter.
Most sub-soils test out at 0%."
Here's the scoop on my soil. It is sandy/silty because it
is ancient river bottom. It is not like this because it is
one of those idiot homes where some developer comes in and
knocks down all the trees, plows down all the hills, puts
big ugly houses three feet apart, builds a gaudy brick wall
around them all, then calls it what it used to be (i.e.
"Rolling Oak Acres"). 0% organic content is probably pretty
close though. It's tough to even grow grass in this stuff.
"then you plant it into a hole with virtually no organic
matter, tight, tight, tight, and now you said you have not
watered it in a month during this heat?"
Here is where you really loose me. "tight, tight, tight"--I
have no idea what you are talking about. And whats the
scoop on watering them? I bought them precisely because I
don't want to water them, just like I don't water anything
else in my yard, and they sure don't look to me like water
is the problem. They are not wilting and yellowing is
usually a symptom of overwatering, right???
"It's a native, not a magician plant."
Duh. How about telling me something usefull instead of
trying to insult me. One more time. What might be a cause
of the following:
(1) Several shrubs with yellowing leaves, especially on the
lower 1/2 to 2/3rds of the shrub. Problem ranges from
slight (only yellow on the leaf tips) to severe (one plant
all the yellow leaves died and fell off leaving "poodle
tail" branches). Follage at the top of the shrubs look OK.
(2) Three shrubs that have very thin folage and smallish
leaves. All of these plants were extremely healthy and very
vigorous all last summer.
(3) Five shrubs, also extremely healthy and very vigorous
all last summer, that did not come back this spring. I know
sometimes this "just happens" but I'm miffed that the
stongest plants went and given my other problems I'm
thinking this may be more than just coinsidence.
Just as a point of reference, several people in our area
grow this stuff with absolutely no problems at all. In fact
the only way one neighbor could kill his was to cement over
it. Hmmm, come to think of it, Photinias (sp?) in my
neighbor's land are dying like flies this spring too. Is it
possible that there is something "going around" that would
get to both plant types?
Susan Wehe
hole you dug? Where the plants root bound? Did you slice the sides to
make the plants develop new roots or physically spread the plant's roots
out? Is it possible that with the sandy soil, that the plants aren't
finding enough nutrients outside their old potting soil and once that's
depleted, that they aren't flourishing? You said some of the others
died, pull the dead plant and examine the roots, they might tell you a
lot about why the plant failed to thrive. In the meantime, feed the
plants using a slow release fertilizer scattered on top of the soil just
within the drip line. Water in well.
BTW, don't blame Victoria for making assumptions, we all do when the
original post doesn't contain enough information. The word tight refers
to clay soils, which is why you're apparently not familiar with it :)
susan
m&v
>
>Just as a point of reference, several people in our area
>grow this stuff with absolutely no problems at all. In fact
>the only way one neighbor could kill his was to cement over
>it. Hmmm, come to think of it, Photinias (sp?) in my
>neighbor's land are dying like flies this spring too. Is it
>possible that there is something "going around" that would
>get to both plant types?
the fungus in the soil effecting photinia's is not going to effect native Texas
Sage. Tight, tight, tight is in reference to unprepared soil with no organic
matter. Over or under watering causes yellowing on leaves the way you described,
so does over and under fertilizing. A plant which is drought tolerant takes up
to two or three years sometimes to develop a good enough root system to make it
fully naturalized and able to tolerate the native temperatures and rainfall.
till that time, you will have to water it as you would any other plant. How did
you prepare the soil before you planted them? Do you feed them anything? If so,
what?
Let's go from there.
Victoria
Renee
Uh, well, now that I know you are somewhere in TX (re: the San Antonio
tournament in which your daughter played AND won!!!) I need to point out
that I didn't mean there are no sages in TX, nor that all the men are
senile old poops. In fact, I only know of one there who is. Doubtless
there may even be some here in zone 6. To my good fortune, I haven't
run into any yet. Meanwhile, please don't export any! :-)
P.S. Mr. Blow: Hope the problem has resolved itself.
Renee
In article <376981FD...@earthlink.net>,
Susan Wehe
I appreciated your humor! Honestly, there are very few sages that I've
met in Texas but lots of senile old poops!! How did you know I wanted
to send them your way??
susan :)
Renee
that I've
> met in Texas but lots of senile old poops!! How did you know I wanted
> to send them your way??
>
> susan :)
Ack! Nooooooo.... it took me long enough to shake the one I mentioned,
and actually, he *still* follows me around online. The only thing worse
than a senile poop is one with a computer. OTOH, he has become quite
the case study for my friends and me... esp my friends with psych
degrees. Very predictable.
ObGardening Post: I dug up gallardias (sp) today and replanted them to
another bed, watering them well. They looks dead. Is it just sooo dry
here that there is no way these can ever perk up???
Renee
>
> Renee wrote:
> >
> > Susan,
> >
> > Uh, well, now that I know you are somewhere in TX (re: the San
Antonio
> > tournament in which your daughter played AND won!!!) I need to point
out
> > that I didn't mean there are no sages in TX, nor that all the men
are
> > senile old poops. In fact, I only know of one there who is.
Doubtless
> > there may even be some here in zone 6. To my good fortune, I
haven't
> > run into any yet. Meanwhile, please don't export any! :-)
> >
> > P.S. Mr. Blow: Hope the problem has resolved itself.
> >
> > Renee
Joe Blow
you described, so does over and under fertilizing. A plant
which is drought tolerant takes up to two or three years
sometimes to develop a good enough root system to make it
fully naturalized and able to tolerate the native
to water it as you would any other plant."
So, yellowing could mean too little water. Hmmm. I know
last year when they needed water they just kind of wilted,
or actually the leaves kindof curled and got dry looking.
The yellowing seems to be new, if it is related to water.
"How did you prepare the soil before you planted them? Do
you feed them anything? If so, what?"
To put it simply, dug a hole, took the shrub out of the pot,
cut the roots, droped the shrub in, filled the hole with a
mix of compost and the original dirt. Watered about an hour
with a soaker hose at least once a week all last summer into
fall.
This year they got the same dose of 15-5-10 fertilizer the
lawn gets in the spring. They didn't really seem to respond
much to it. As an experiment, I put maybe a couple
teaspoons of the same fertilizer around some of the more
sickly plants and gave a good watering last weekend.
Nothing yet, but doubtful I'll see anything for a while.
Any thoughts Victoria??
Joe Blow
just described to Victoria I watered the entire area with a
soaker hose precisely because I wanted the roots to spread
out.
"Where the plants root bound? Did you slice the sides to
make the plants develop new roots or physically spread the
plant's roots out?" I don't recall if they were root bound
or not, but I always slice the roots in four places before
transplanting anything. These shrubs were no exception.
"Is it possible that with the sandy soil, that the plants
aren't finding enough nutrients outside their old potting
soil and once that's depleted, that they aren't
flourishing?"
Again, this is something I can't really rule out so I would
have to say it is a possibility. I don't think its very
likely though because the plants currently having a hard
time are in probably the best soil on my whole lot
(definately loam, but still very sandy), while the plants
doing best are in a vein so sandy you'd think you were
digging in a sand box (grass basically doesn't even grow
there).
"You said some of the others died, pull the dead plant and
examine the roots, they might tell you a lot about why the
plant failed to thrive."
A good idea. I'll try and do that soon.
"In the meantime, feed the plants using a slow release
fertilizer scattered on top of the soil just within the drip
line. Water in well." All the shrubs were fertilized this
spring, and as an experiment I tried basically what you said
on a few plants this weekend. If they seem to respond I'll
do the rest.
Thanks.