Are my poppies legal?
Frightened
Hello
I have recently read an article in Harpers magazine.
It says that some types of poppies are illegal.
I am not a proffesional or even weekend gardner. :-(
I get to it when I can, thus my knowledge is limited.
How can I identify mine?
I think I have just about every color under the sun.
I purchased the seeds while in Chicago at a museum during a Monet
exhibit.
The package contained what were suppose to be the flowers from Monet's
garden.
I know the poppies sure do look like the ones in the painting.
I also have some planted from packages of wildflower seed.
Some were different sizes, and as I said, I have all colors.
Am I in trouble?
Should I rip them up and go with something else just to be safe?
This whole thing is really weird.
I need to know what I have growing in my yard.
Can somebody help?
I also purchase dried flower arrangements for my wife because she likes
them.
Again, I haven't the faintest clue as to whether I am buying one of a
legal variety.
It appears that everything I do to color up my yard and life could be
criminal!
Am I safe if I buy the dried flowers from a large store?
How can I tell the legal ones from the illegal.
Please reply.
Thank You
Frightned
F & H Reading
Dear Frightened, dont worry so....im sure that unless youre growing your
poppies to harvest and produce drugs with that the police will not care too
much what flowers are in your garden. Your safest bet would be to call your
local police dept and ask them. Even if some of your poppies are illegal
they will surely tell you, if they know, and you can eliminate those then.
So as far as the legalities of it are concerned, I wouldnt worry. In order
to determine types you have i would simply go to the library. There youll
find a book with pictures and descriptions and maybe even the laws
concerning poppy growing, as im not sure if it s a federal or state law. I
have grown poppies for yrs without any problems, im sure youll have the
same good fortune:) good luck and dont worry:)
Frightened <**tremble**@concentric.net> wrote in article
<334AED...@concentric.net>...
Bill Robinson
F & H Reading wrote .....
> Dear Frightened, dont worry so....im sure that unless youre growing your
> poppies to harvest and produce drugs with that the police will not care
too
> much what flowers are in your garden.
Not so! I know of one instance in La Canada, California in which a home
gardener was arrested for growing 'opium poppies' which had been planted
for their ornamental value. The home gardener said that she didn't know
that they were opium poppies and the charges were dismissed by the court
but she did get 'busted'. It was Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office. One
of
the local gardening classes have started to call all of the ornamental
poppies, 'lettuce poppies' in the hope that no one will know the
difference.
Bill
Todd F. Carney
Bill Robinson wrote:
> Not so! I know of one instance in La Canada, California in which a home
> gardener was arrested for growing 'opium poppies' which had been > planted
> for their ornamental value. The home gardener said that she didn't know
> that they were opium poppies and the charges were dismissed by the > court
> but she did get 'busted'.
Yes, this happened to my brother in California as well. That the police
can be so bone-headed is one good reason to *not* ask your local police
department as an earlier respondant suggested. The police are not
experts in the law, and sometimes know very little of it. It's
distressing, but true.
If you need to ask about the legality of plants you bought from a
reputable dealer (such as a seed company), ask the local U.S. Attorney's
office (don't bother with the state attorneys--it's not their
jurisdiction). The fact is, though, you can't buy opium poppies from
regular seed companies or nurseries. You have to smuggle them.
Todd Carney
Polly M. Law
> > How can I identify mine?
> > I think I have just about every color under the sun.
> > I purchased the seeds while in Chicago at a museum during a Monet
> > exhibit.
> > The package contained what were suppose to be the flowers from Monet's
> > garden.
> > I know the poppies sure do look like the ones in the painting.
> > I also have some planted from packages of wildflower seed.
> > Some were different sizes, and as I said, I have all colors.
> > Am I in trouble?
> > Should I rip them up and go with something else just to be safe?
> > This whole thing is really weird.
> > I need to know what I have growing in my yard.
> > Can somebody help?
Hi "frightened"
If your poppies are perennials with green fuzzy leaves and stems, the
leaves form a bunch(rosette) that hugs the ground, and they disappear(go
dormant) mid summer after they bloom; you have Oriental poppies(Papaver
orientale) which are perfectly legal.
If your poppies have whitish green or green leaves and stems that are
not fuzzy, the leaves form a rosette that hugs the ground, and the
leaves have only slightly ruffled edges; you probably have either
Shirley poppies (Papaver rhoeas) or Iceland Poppies.If the flowers are
in orange shades, you definitely have Iceland Poppies. Both the Shirley
and Iceland poppies are legal.I would bet that you have Shirleys in your
seed mix.
If your poppies have pale yellow or whitish green leaves and stems, do
not have a rosette of leaves at the base, have leaves that clasp the
stem and are along the entire legnth of the stem, have leaves that look
like the leaves of escarole( i.e. frilled and slightly lobed), it is an
annual and the seed head forms a nice little exotic looking
pepper-shaker; you probably have Opium Poppy aka Bread or Lettuce-leaved
Poppy( poppies and lettuce are in the same family) (Papaver somniferum)
which is the one everyone is in such a swivet about.
Busting people for having a few opium poppies in their garden would, you
would think, be more of an embaressment for the police than it is worth.
Local Newspapers love to make hay out of the police busting Grandma.
But, the law is the law and ignorance of said is no excuse. If you are
really curious or afraid or thinking of running for public office, why
don't you call or write to the supplier of the seed and ask them for a
list of the species?
--
Polly M. Law
Upstate NY/ Z5
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Insolitores Res Contiguerunt
+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
I'm a vegetarian, I don't like Spam, so
To send email, remove * from address
Alan Farmer
In article <01bc44f4$18e374c0$9edd...@roseguy.flash.net>, "Bill Robinson"
<Ros...@flash.net> wrote:
> Not so! I know of one instance in La Canada, California in which a home
> gardener was arrested for growing 'opium poppies' which had been planted
> for their ornamental value. The home gardener said that she didn't know
> that they were opium poppies and the charges were dismissed by the court
> but she did get 'busted'. It was Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office. One
> of
Same thing happened in Georgia last year.A guy planted poppies in his
mothers vegetble garden.She just thought they were flowers.I'd check
either with the police or the county extension office to be safe.
Alan
You have to have a sense of humor to get by...
http://www.netdepot.com/~afarmer/
afa...@netdepot.com
sk...@bway.net
In article <334BD1...@sou.edu>, "Todd F. Carney" <ztca...@sou.edu> wrote:
> If you need to ask about the legality of plants you bought from a
> reputable dealer (such as a seed company), ask the local U.S. Attorney's
> office (don't bother with the state attorneys--it's not their
> jurisdiction). The fact is, though, you can't buy opium poppies from
> regular seed companies or nurseries. You have to smuggle them.
>
> Todd Carney
Todd;
No need to 'smuggle' anything! You can buy opium poppy seeds from a
number of reputable seed suppliers. Shepherd's carries Breadbox poppy
seeds, which are the dreaded Somniferum/opium variety.....they're also the
culinary kind. Without having run to the catalog, we believe you can also
get 'peony flowering' (aka Somniferums) from T&M as well.
We have purchased the 'peony flowering' poppies at Frank's, and have seen
them at other nurseries.
'Hen & Chicks', another version of Somniferum is also widely available.
Bill & Harvey
SKID Zone 6 CT USA
chris freeman
there are P.somniferum. They have just been bred for seed production
rather than latex, but are the same species. Examination of the seed
surface under magnification (~30x) confirms this.
Chris
Liz Jones
sk...@bway.net wrote:
> No need to 'smuggle' anything! You can buy opium poppy seeds from a
> number of reputable seed suppliers. Shepherd's carries Breadbox poppy
> seeds, which are the dreaded Somniferum/opium variety.....they're also the
> culinary kind. Without having run to the catalog, we believe you can also
> get 'peony flowering' (aka Somniferums) from T&M as well.
Oh Noooo!!!
So this is why I've been unable to find any culinary poppies locally!
How completely obnoxious! I love poppyseed rolls and etc... are *all*
the culinary ones also somniferum? You know, I might just grow some
anyway, and to heck with the cops. Christmas sweet rolls just aren't the
same without poppyseeds...
Lord knows, we mustn't let anyone grow anything which they might become
addicted to... we just can't trust our pesky citizens.
Unless, of course, said addictive substance has a cute little promo
creature like Joe Camel, and can be taxed, that is...
Liz
Klondike
This whole issue makes me so d*mn mad. I'm no libertarian, but I
believe the govt has better things to do than ripping out my poppy
plants, after which its agents go home to their single-malt Scotch and
fine cigars.
Shall we launch a campaign to repeal the policy against poppies? I'll
be the first to sign.
--
Klondike
Zone 7b, with an abiding interest in intermontane zone 5
return e-mail to cmo...@emory.edu
Dave Marciniak
> > Not so! I know of one instance in La Canada, California in which a home
> > gardener was arrested for growing 'opium poppies' which had been planted
> > for their ornamental value. The home gardener said that she didn't know
> > that they were opium poppies and the charges were dismissed by the court
> > but she did get 'busted'. It was Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office. One
> > of
>
> Same thing happened in Georgia last year.A guy planted poppies in his
> mothers vegetble garden.She just thought they were flowers.I'd check
> either with the police or the county extension office to be safe.
>
> Alan
>
___________________
Never, never, never call police and ask if your popptes are legal. They'll
say "Sure, they're legal." Then two weks later you'll get raided by the
local Feds, who will go on to seize your property, home and bank account.
Under the asset forfeiture laws passed by our Big Brother Congress, you
must prove that you didn't intend to grow "funny" flowers or weeds. You
know, the old guilty until proven innocent American ideal. Ask Donald
Scott in California. Oops, you can't. The California cops shot him dead
because they "had reason to believe" he was growing :"funny" weeds. He
wasn't. No law enforcement people were ever charged with a crime.
Under federal and state laws, police are now funding their departments and
operations with seized property from normal, middle class citizens. It
used to be called theft or piracy. Now it's called "Asset Forfeiture." In
the government's insane war on drugs, it's sweeping up everyone and
anything. It doesn't care who it hurts.
The best bet is simply don't grow poppies. The only other solution is for
people to pull themselves away from the tube long enough to write their
Congress and tell them to stop acting like a bunch of idiots, thieves and
pirates or they'll be retired at the voting box.
Catherine Senger
>You know, I might just grow some anyway, and to heck with the cops.
Holy cow - why is there such a problem with growing poppies over in the
States? 'Round the corner from where I live is a front garden full of big
beautiful orange oriental poppies every year. I mean I'm talking about an
ocean of poppies. Are these the once you are referring to? Because if
they are then I can assure you: nobody gives damn around here.
Catherine
Brighton, UK
Catherine Senger
Allyn Weaks
In article <dmarcini-100...@cmx1a-107.up.net>, dmar...@up.net
(Dave Marciniak) wrote:
> Never, never, never call police and ask if your popptes are legal. They'll
> say "Sure, they're legal." Then two weks later you'll get raided by the
> local Feds, who will go on to seize your property, home and bank account.
No, they don't 'seize' your property, they 'arrest' it. Seizure requires a
warrant. But if you call it an 'arrest', well, that's not banned by the
constitution.
[snip]
> Under federal and state laws, police are now funding their departments and
> operations with seized property from normal, middle class citizens. It
> used to be called theft or piracy. Now it's called "Asset Forfeiture." In
> the government's insane war on drugs, it's sweeping up everyone and
> anything. It doesn't care who it hurts.
Worse, this abhorantly unconstitutional theft is assisted by the courts,
because _they_ often get some of the proceeds too; sometimes provided by a
state legislature, often kindly provided by the police departments. (Can
you say 'payoff'? I knew you could.) If anyone actually comes up with
enough resources to fight for their rights, the system quietly gives in
lest it all come up before the Supreme Court, which even in this day and
age would be hard pressed to call the law constitutional and let it stand.
> The best bet is simply don't grow poppies.
Oh, grow poppies. Lots of poppies. On DEA property and in front of court
and other government buildings :-) After all, it's perfectly legal to
spill seeds bought at the grocery store!
> The only other solution is for
> people to pull themselves away from the tube long enough to write their
> Congress and tell them to stop acting like a bunch of idiots, thieves and
> pirates or they'll be retired at the voting box.
Find out who your judges are, and write them too. Look into their records,
it's mostly (all?) public. Don't vote for a judge at any level if you
don't know their position. If you find any guilty of supporting the police
on this issue, make sure the whole world knows it loud and clear. Don't
let them hide in obscurity. Stir up your local media. I think a _huge_
public stink is more needed here than just letters, which are easily
ignored (they've been ignored for years now). Make sure that every cop and
every judge knows that their employer watchdogs are looking carefully at
everything they do and keeping a very public scorecard.
--
Allyn Weaks al...@u.washington.edu
PNW Native Wildlife Gardening: http://chemwww.chem.washington.edu/natives/
Any advertisements sent to any of my email accounts will be billed $25 per
message, $1 per character, including all header lines. No exceptions.
Sending such mail constitutes agreement to these terms.
sk...@bway.net
In article <5ij1nd$6...@infa.central.susx.ac.uk>, Catherine Senger
<C.Se...@sussex.ac.uk> wrote:
Uh, Catherine.....
'P. somniferum', not 'P. orientale'....big difference. One has opiates
the other doesn't. On the other hand, we, among many others will just go
ahead and plant our flowers, and not worry about the remote possibility of
being busted......as we are just growing pretty flowers, and have no
interest in drugs.
WOO
Totally agreed! Me second!
Klondike (nos...@thisaddre.ss) wrote:
: This whole issue makes me so d*mn mad. I'm no libertarian, but I
Abacus
WOO wrote:
>
> Totally agreed! Me second!
All in favour? Motion carried.
I became a poppy fanatic about 5 years ago... I've got them everywhere
now. I kept buying Orientals that said "red" on the stake-thing, and
they always looked intensely orange to me. I was looking for the deep
crimsonny ones like Livermore (aka Livermere it seems), and they kept
blooming ORANGE! Drove me batty. I've now managed to get a few pinkish
and white Orientals and stuff, but can't bear to uproot the excessive
orange ones (which seem to produce more flowers than the others, making
the entire garden look orange). So I keep adding other red and white
ones (and some of the pale pink -- hate that Princess Louise or whatever
that salmon-pink one is), to compensate.
Decided to try some of the annual poppies, including somniferum, and
they can be absolutely gorgeous. Harder to grow, it seems, than the
rhoeas (or whatever those are) and icelands. Have taken several stabs
at meconopsis, all of them dismal failures -- you blink and the slugs
have eaten them.
Of course I've experimented with opium harvest. If I really work at it,
my garden can produce about a quarter-thimblefull -- I wave a lighter
under some tinfoil it's on, like incense, and it smells fabulous -- like
myrrh, sorta. But it's not enough for anyone to get high on, and I've
realized you would really need to have quite a large poppy plantation to
make any significant quantities. The idea of chasing down gardeners who
have been bitten by the poppy bug is ludicrous and the Harper's article
makes this point clearly... that the war on drugs is like the ancient
witch-hunts (i.e. completely out of control).
The author points to several indications that the feds are trying to
prevent people from growing papaver somniferum by sending stern warnings
to the seed companies, and I think that's criminal. A central point of
his article is that while poppies are legal to grow, opium production is
illegal, and that the more you know about opium production, the more
easily the feds can make a case that you were growing the flowers with
opium production in mind.
However, my sense is that his having published that (very eloquent)
piece in a respected magazine such as Harper's probably makes it harder
for the feds to pursue this issue, because they were trying to do their
damage "behind the scenes" (with the seed companies). The author showed
that the poppy is a popular flower, for its beauty alone, and that the
feds are targetting innocent gardeners (AS WELL AS the occasional person
who grows it for personal opium consumption).
We've seen enough instances of monoculture in this century -- incredible
reliance on one hybrid of corn, or whatever -- and the importance of
species diversity has been completely forgotten. One new disease comes
along that wipes out that one (rather fragile) strain, and it's game
over. We shouldn't allow governments to eradicate any plant in this way,
but if they're successful in their snide little memos to seed companies,
this is what will happen. In somniferum's case, this would be a very
sad loss. I think there's room for something other than impatiens and
petunias in this world (blecch!).
So how do we start our campaign against this ridiculous policy? What
about volunteering our names to a central registry of innocent
somniferum gardeners who will all step forward if anyone gets targetted,
to say "there's strength in numbers... you'll have to arrest the whole
lot of us -- teachers, businesspeople, homemakers, senior citizens,
doctors, etc."?
Atazoth
>Holy cow - why is there such a problem with growing poppies over in the
>States? 'Round the corner from where I live is a front garden full of big
>beautiful orange oriental poppies every year. I mean I'm talking about an
>ocean of poppies. Are these the once you are referring to? Because if
>they are then I can assure you: nobody gives damn around here.
No, the oriental poppies are different, but I believe it is still legal in
England to growing Papaver somniferum (Opium Poppies).
James Hammett
Allyn Weaks <al...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Worse, this abhorantly unconstitutional theft is assisted by the courts,
> because _they_ often get some of the proceeds too; sometimes provided by a
> state legislature, often kindly provided by the police departments. (Can
> you say 'payoff'? I knew you could.) If anyone actually comes up with
> enough resources to fight for their rights, the system quietly gives in
> lest it all come up before the Supreme Court, which even in this day and
> age would be hard pressed to call the law constitutional and let it stand.
If someone actually spends the time and money and gets their property
back, 1) They are out ALL of their time and money. 2) They may not get
all of it back.
later,
James
James Hammett
Dave Marciniak <dmar...@up.net> wrote:
> Never, never, never call police and ask if your popptes are legal. They'll
> say "Sure, they're legal." Then two weks later you'll get raided by the
> local Feds, who will go on to seize your property, home and bank account.
> Under the asset forfeiture laws passed by our Big Brother Congress, you
> must prove that you didn't intend to grow "funny" flowers or weeds. You
> know, the old guilty until proven innocent American ideal. Ask Donald
> Scott in California. Oops, you can't. The California cops shot him dead
> because they "had reason to believe" he was growing :"funny" weeds. He
> wasn't. No law enforcement people were ever charged with a crime.
One thing you forgot to mention was that his ranch was worth 3 million
dollars. It seems the police had the property apraised BEFORE they
decided to raid it. The District Attorney investigated the case and
confirmed that one of the cops primary reasons for raiding his property
was to seize the ranch.
Check out http://www.fear.org/scott.html, they actually have a copy of
the DA's report.
later,
James
aKia
Todd F. Carney wrote:
> The fact is, though, you can't buy opium poppies from
> regular seed companies or nurseries. You have to smuggle them.
>
> Todd Carney
Hi,
Bong!
you can buy them all over the place.
Papaver Somniverum (Sleeping Poppy) is sold for use in dried
arrangements
and for seeds used in baking.
you aren't commiting a crime until you attempt to harvest opium.
--
Bruce Byers
aKia <aK...@akia.com> wrote:
The recent Harper's article that I believe was the impetus for this
thread made it clear that one can indeed be arrested and prosecuted
for merely growing poppies, and that people have indeed been arrested
and prosecuted for this "crime." The authorities, however, tend to
make such arrests only when they're ticked off by someone who, for
example, writes and distributes information about how to extract opium
from poppies. Accoring to the author of the article, the DEA is
deliberately low-key about these arrests, because they would very much
prefer that misinformation (like the idea that opium poppies are
somehow different than the ones in everybody's gardens) remain in
circulation and be widely believed.
Bruce Byers
Rabbit
aKia wrote:
>
> Todd F. Carney wrote:
>
> > The fact is, though, you can't buy opium poppies from
> > regular seed companies or nurseries. You have to smuggle them.
> >
> > Todd Carney
>
> Hi,
>
> Bong!
>
> you can buy them all over the place.
>
> Papaver Somniverum (Sleeping Poppy) is sold for use in dried
> arrangements
> and for seeds used in baking.
>
> you aren't commiting a crime until you attempt to harvest opium.
>
Read the April 1997 lead story in Harper's Magazine. It's a very
informative (and scary) story on the legal problems with growing poppies
in your garden.