metal trellis and powerlines
Glenn Hudspeth
stick a 20' piece of metal conduit (EMT) in the ground at each end of the
row from which to hang a trellis.
What to my wondering eyes did appear when I gazed skyward but powerlines
about 20' off the ground! Why didn't I think of that before I planted?!?
If I put the supports in they will be about 4' to one side of the
powerlines, and hopfully about 2' below (but I'm not sure). The lines
actually run directly over the property line, and my hops are planted about
3-4' away from the fence.
I know this has the potential to be a dangerous situation, but my
question is: is there a possibility of any electricity jumping the gap
between the line and my pole? Or should it be OK to put them up as long as I
made sure I didn't touch one of the lines in the process? Any advice would
be greatly appreciated,
Glenn
lee
<8f79fc$6ce$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>:
not much danger of electricity hopping from insulated powerlines to the
structure, but if it's that close to the trellis you're going to have to
work to keep the hops off the lines, i think. the power company is
generally unamused by vines getting on thier wires...
are you going to be able to trim the tops of the vines when they get that
high?
lee <who has hops growing along a stone wall>
Glenn Hudspeth
Thanks--I wasn't sure whether the lines were insulated or not. Clearly I
know next to nothing about powerlines. First thought, though, was what am I
going to do now? Maybe I should reduce the height of my trellis to 13' feet
instead of 18'. Perhaps that will keep the hops off the lines.
Glenn
Tony Miklos
Whoa! Use caution here! I have never seen insulated power lines! They
are bare wire. I believe he thought you were near the pole or tower and
not near the wires themselves. I wouldn't suggest getting closer than
ten feet from them with yourself or of course any conductor (metal pole
or wood pole when it's wet). I'm not so sure your safe at ten feet. I
wouldn't even think of putting that conduit anywhere these lines. They
are very high voltage that will kill instantly!
--
Tony
Daniel Magee
powerlines tend to be bare wire, in some neighborhoods insulated wire will
run from the nearest transformer and wrap around a bare ground line until
geting near the intended house. I can't exactly remember the charge carried
through the lines, something on the order of 440 V. on house supply lines
and 1440(?0) on the others, but amperage is the real killer, either is more
than enough to cause rapid cessation of cardiac action. Neighborhood supply
lines carry enough of a charge to carry through dry or wet wood for a
considerable distance so i wouldn't advise using wood tools to move the
poles into place, I think your safest bet would be to go with the 13'
trellis. Still keep an eye up to make sure you don't lift it into any wire
on accident. Electrical injuries tend to make a long burn from the point of
contact to ground, usually hands to feet. Burn is visible at contact site
and feet and may travel over skin, most of burn will run below skin
following the shortest and least resistive path to ground, just so happens
the heart is usually in the path. At contact sites instantaneous
vaporization of sweat can cause explosive shedding of clothes and shoes,
seen photo's of the aftermath. If the initial shock is survived the farm
can still be bought due to internal injuries and swealing. Have fun 8-).
Daniel Magee
danmagee at ticnet dot com
"Glenn Hudspeth" <m...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8f7aig$n7b$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
lee
<39173F9F...@netcarrier.com>:
>Glenn Hudspeth wrote:
>>
>> Lee,
>>
>> Thanks--I wasn't sure whether the lines were insulated or not.
>> Clearly I know next to nothing about powerlines. First thought,
>> though, was what am I going to do now? Maybe I should reduce the
>> height of my trellis to 13' feet instead of 18'. Perhaps that will
>> keep the hops off the lines.
>>
>> Glenn
>
>Whoa! Use caution here! I have never seen insulated power lines!
>They are bare wire. I believe he thought you were near the pole or
>tower and not near the wires themselves. I wouldn't suggest getting
>closer than ten feet from them with yourself or of course any conductor
>(metal pole or wood pole when it's wet). I'm not so sure your safe at
>ten feet. I wouldn't even think of putting that conduit anywhere these
>lines. They are very high voltage that will kill instantly!
oh? you have bare wires with electricity going through them coming into
your house? i don't think so. that black covering is called insulation.
if they were not insulated, you would have no power anytime it rained.
birds would die every time they landed on the wires, etc. my wires travel
a quite a ways from the nearest pole & they are wrapped around a bare
metal cable to support the weight, but the actual current carring wires
are insulated.
you do not want vines to get on the wires. you do not want the wires to
touch the metal trellis because a break in the insulation could cause the
trellis to become electrified. you don't want to lean a ladder against
wires because of similar reasons... but there _is_ an insulation coating
on the wires.
if it's a house line the highest voltage it would be is 220 amp. you
don't want to mess with it, but it's not like the high voltage tower
lines, which are on towers for a reason (to keep all but the stupidest
from reaching them & toasting themselves)
lee
Tony Miklos
> >
> >Whoa! Use caution here! I have never seen insulated power lines!
> >They are bare wire. I believe he thought you were near the pole or
> >tower and not near the wires themselves. I wouldn't suggest getting
> >closer than ten feet from them with yourself or of course any conductor
> >(metal pole or wood pole when it's wet). I'm not so sure your safe at
> >ten feet. I wouldn't even think of putting that conduit anywhere these
> >lines. They are very high voltage that will kill instantly!
>
> oh? you have bare wires with electricity going through them coming into
> your house? i don't think so. that black covering is called insulation.
I guess the big question here is what these wires actually are. Are
they what we around here call "power lines" which are high voltage, non
insulated lines that supply power for more than one home, possibly for
an entire town? Or are we talking about a supply line going only to his
home? Yes, I agree if they are the wires going into the home, they are
only 240 volt, and unless they are very old, they are insulated, but
I've never heard them referred to as "power lines" before. If it's only
his supply line, and there is no transformer between it and the house,
and it is insulated, it should be fine to within a couple feet of it. I
would keep it lower so that if it fell, it had no chance of touching the
wires anyway.
--
Tony
Glenn Hudspeth
That's a good question. I'll try to describe it in more detail. In my
subdivision, the houses are built "back-to-back." That is, if I'm standing
in my backyard looking away from my house, I'm looking into the backyard and
the back of the house of the person on the next street over. I think this is
pretty typical.
At the back left corner of everyone's backyard, there is a 30' wooden
"telephone pole." There are then four wires running from pole to pole, all
the way down the street. The supply lines, as you are calling them, for
power, telephone, and cable, run from the poles to each house. The wires
that my trellis will be next to are not those supply lines running to each
house, but the four "bigger" wires running from pole to pole.
Although I can't really tell what the wires are, they are certainly not
those *enormous* steel towers that you see running across the country-side,
like from a power plant to a city. As I'm looking right now there's a bird
sitting on the lowest wire :)
Glenn
Tony Miklos <tmi...@netcarrier.com> wrote in message
news:39181DA6...@netcarrier.com...
Sarah Miller
: if they were not insulated, you would have no power anytime it rained.
Not quite true...the reason birds don't fry them selves on uninsulated
power lines is the way they are not earthed, like wise with rain, the air
is a very good insulator.
Massive voltages are carried uninsulated across miles of the national
grid before being transformed down in local stations and sub stations then
that lower voltage is taken to users by insulated cable. Its worth being
carefull with any power line, insulation breaks down and becomes brittle
with time, its just fine till your metal trellis, ladder, wet kite string
hits it in the wrong place, then bye bye. You have just earthed lord
knows how many amps at 240 volts, not a pretty sight.
Similar caution should be exercised if you unearth " catuion live
cable" tape whist digging, less likley to kill you as theearth will be
close by but welding your sharp spade to a power line is not a smart
move.
Sarah
Tony Miklos
>
> Tony and Lee,
>
> At the back left corner of everyone's backyard, there is a 30' wooden
> "telephone pole." There are then four wires running from pole to pole, all
> the way down the street. The supply lines, as you are calling them, for
> power, telephone, and cable, run from the poles to each house. The wires
> that my trellis will be next to are not those supply lines running to each
> house, but the four "bigger" wires running from pole to pole.
Are the four wires run together, possibly twisted around each other or
are they seperated by a foot or more? How far are they apart? Is there
a transformer on each pole for every one or two houses?
--
Tony
Michael McIntyre
>that my trellis will be next to are not those supply lines running to each
>house, but the four "bigger" wires running from pole to pole.
I wouldn't dick around with these. Put your hops somewhere else, or
build your trellis out of PVC.
I don't remember all the technical names myself (might take a look at
www.howstuffworks.com to read up on this in detail, as they have a
well-written and informative article on the subject) but of the
four-wire poles the top three are probably high voltage lines, and the
lower one is probably cable TV (Around here all the phone lines are
buried...) The voltage on these lines is much higher than house
current. I don't know how high. 440 perhaps, maybe higher. It gets
stepped down to 220 or thereabouts via a transformer before feeding
into the house.
We had an ice storm a few years back. One of these three-phase supply
lines blew down. Every time it grounded out, it put out enough blue
light to blind everyone within 300 yards of the thing, not to mention
the terrifying electrical hum (Just imagine it... the world is
covered with a continuous sheet of frozen, conducting water, and some
serious juice is going to ground whenever the wind blows... if you
step outside your house at the wrong time, you just might be dead...)
There's some SERIOUS power at work here, even though it's nowhere
remotely close to the voltage on the really gigantic towers.
I'll re-iterate: I wouldn't dick around with these. I'm not much of
a beer drinker, and not a home brewer, so maybe I just don't
understand, but I would personally drink nothing but Budweiser for the
rest of my life rather than take a chance with something such as you
mention.
---
D. Michael McIntyre | mmci...@swva.net | USDA zone 6a in sw VA
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/index.html
Have you hugged a tree today?
Chris Owens
Glenn Hudspeth wrote:
>
> Well I planted my four hop vines last Friday and have been planning to
> stick a 20' piece of metal conduit (EMT) in the ground at each end of the
> row from which to hang a trellis.
>
> What to my wondering eyes did appear when I gazed skyward but powerlines
> about 20' off the ground! Why didn't I think of that before I planted?!?
>
> If I put the supports in they will be about 4' to one side of the
> powerlines, and hopfully about 2' below (but I'm not sure). The lines
> actually run directly over the property line, and my hops are planted about
> 3-4' away from the fence.
>
> I know this has the potential to be a dangerous situation, but my
> question is: is there a possibility of any electricity jumping the gap
> between the line and my pole? Or should it be OK to put them up as long as I
> made sure I didn't touch one of the lines in the process? Any advice would
> be greatly appreciated,
Don't you have any WIND where you are? Electricity won't jump from the
line to the pole; but, if the line hits the pole, it will most certainly
cause a ground, and may blow a transformer. Then, the power company
bills you for the damage.
Chris Owens
>
> Glenn
zv...@my-deja.com
"Glenn Hudspeth" <m...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Well I planted my four hop vines last Friday and have been
planning to
> stick a 20' piece of metal conduit (EMT) in the ground at each end of
the
> row from which to hang a trellis.
>
> What to my wondering eyes did appear when I gazed skyward but
powerlines
> about 20' off the ground! Why didn't I think of that before I
planted?!?
>
> If I put the supports in they will be about 4' to one side of the
> powerlines, and hopfully about 2' below (but I'm not sure). The lines
> actually run directly over the property line, and my hops are planted
about
> 3-4' away from the fence.
>
> I know this has the potential to be a dangerous situation, but my
> question is: is there a possibility of any electricity jumping the gap
> between the line and my pole? Or should it be OK to put them up as
long as I
> made sure I didn't touch one of the lines in the process? Any advice
would
> be greatly appreciated,
>
>
>
I read the whole thread. Almost certainly you have house voltage, but of
course touching one of those unprotected wires will still kill you
instantly because it will send a large current through your body (whose
resistance, with wet fingers, is only some 2000 Ohms).
The wires are black, all right, but around here, in an older
neighborhood, the black stuff is obviously frayed in many places. We
also have trees, including one at my property line, with branches no
more than 2 feet away from the wires (those will go this summer). Also
my neighbor works for the utility, and because of the entanglement of
vegetation and wires we have discussed things several times in the past.
If I were you, I would not destroy the existing trellis, just make it 12
or 13 feet tall, give yourself 8 feet VERTICAL separation, and then the
wires will never bother your hops, which will only reach two feet above
the trellis top. That will hold true even if it is very windy. If you
call the company and ask their opinion you will see they are cool with
this solution.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Glenn Hudspeth
No, they are separate. The top three have a vertical separation of about 5',
although it's hard to tell for sure. The bottom wire is thicker and black
and is only about 2' below the lowest of the other three. And there are
transformers on every pole, from which the house supply lines run. I imagine
that the top three wires are electrical and the bottom is probably
phone/cable.
Glenn
Tony Miklos <tmi...@netcarrier.com> wrote in message
news:391873B8...@netcarrier.com...
Glenn Hudspeth
anywhere near the lines. I'm not exactly sure what their elevation is, but
I'll just make sure my poles are plenty shorter than they are. Who cares if
my hops only get to grow 13' feet instead of 18'. At least I'll be alive to
enjoy them in some beer in September.
Glenn
Tony Miklos
>
> Tony,
>
> No, they are separate. The top three have a vertical separation of about 5',
> although it's hard to tell for sure. The bottom wire is thicker and black
> and is only about 2' below the lowest of the other three. And there are
> transformers on every pole, from which the house supply lines run. I imagine
> that the top three wires are electrical and the bottom is probably
> phone/cable.
>
> Glenn
Well Glenn,
That tells me that you are dealing with power lines that are NOT
insulated. Notice how the insulated ones running to the house are
twisted together (if they are not buried) but these wires are separated
by 5'. That is so they don't short together. The fact that there are
transformers on every pole tells me that this is high voltage. The
transformer lowers it to 120 and 120 volts (240 volts combined) and then
the low voltage (240) goes to your home. The ones on the poles are over
1000 volts and very dangerous. Please don't even think of putting
anything near them.
By the way, the lower thicker, black wire is most likely phone lines
which will not harm you. But please, don't take my word, since I can't
see it myself, respect them as if they were high voltage also.
I'm glad you asked before bumping that trellis onto the wires. There
are enough stories I read about people dying from touching power lines.
I would either lower my trellis to half the distance between the ground
and the wires, or move them.
--
Tony
Tony Miklos
That's the spirit! (or is that the brew?) Whatever, stay away from
them, drink a beer any sing "don't worry, be happy".
--
Tony