Consistent problems with White Flower Farms Amaryllis. Anyone else?
Mark A. Moore
Farms. Two years ago I ordered a set of three. All came infected with
what I later discovered was Red Spot (Stagonospora). They cheerfully
refunded the money, but I would have rather had healthy plants.
This year I ordered two more thinking they would not send another
diseased plant. After all, my perception of their reputation was that
it was good.
Suprise.
While my new Amaryllis Picotee has not yet sprouted a stalk -- it has
only been a few days -- the bulb itself is showing clear signs of Red
Spot.
Has anyone else had this sort of problem? Should I simply not do
business with White Flower Farms?
Thanks
Mark
--
Mark Moore
mark_...@rens.com
+1 781 402 1196
Pat Kiewicz
<snip story of diseased bulbs>
>
>Has anyone else had this sort of problem? Should I simply not do
>business with White Flower Farms?
>
Not specifically your sort of problem, but my experience with WFF
was unsatisfactory, and I don't plan to ever order from them again.
I've ordered amaryllis bulbs from Dutch Gardens, with excellent
results. The red miniature was truly spectacular.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI
NOTICE!! To hit my personal mailbox, please put the letter 'p' in front of
the 'kiewicz' when replying by e-mail.
Dana Parker
satisfactory - it put up 3 bloom talks, one of which had 6 flowers! Since
then I've been getting them locally, but nothing so far has compared with
the first one. Unfortunately, it didn't make it through the summer.
WWF is way overpriced, but they do occasionally have a great special on
lily bulbs, which IMX have been perfectly healthy and vigorous, oversize
bulbs.
Mark A. Moore wrote:
> This is the second time that I have ordered Amaryllis from White Flower
> Farms. Two years ago I ordered a set of three. All came infected with
> what I later discovered was Red Spot (Stagonospora). They cheerfully
> refunded the money, but I would have rather had healthy plants.
>
> This year I ordered two more thinking they would not send another
> diseased plant. After all, my perception of their reputation was that
> it was good.
>
> Suprise.
>
> While my new Amaryllis Picotee has not yet sprouted a stalk -- it has
> only been a few days -- the bulb itself is showing clear signs of Red
> Spot.
>
> Has anyone else had this sort of problem? Should I simply not do
> business with White Flower Farms?
>
Zhanataya
experience with Spring Hill, three years running. (I'm a slow learner) So
when you go to another source I suggest you skip Spring Hill.
Zhanataya
Jessie
>
> This is the second time that I have ordered Amaryllis from White Flower
> Farms. Two years ago I ordered a set of three. All came infected with
> what I later discovered was Red Spot (Stagonospora). They cheerfully
> refunded the money, but I would have rather had healthy plants.
>
> This year I ordered two more thinking they would not send another
> diseased plant. After all, my perception of their reputation was that
> it was good.
>
> Suprise.
>
> While my new Amaryllis Picotee has not yet sprouted a stalk -- it has
> only been a few days -- the bulb itself is showing clear signs of Red
> Spot.
>
> Has anyone else had this sort of problem? Should I simply not do
> business with White Flower Farms?
>
> Thanks
>
I've never bought Amaryllis from them, but other things have
been just fine. Try Dutch Gardens for Amaryllis -- good
selection, healthy top-size plants.
--
Jessie
New York City
j e s 2 2 at columbia dot edu
==================================
note the spam Trap
==================================
PRoth10698
alive and some have reporduced, and I do get blooms from some of them. Is
there a cure for this red spot and what problems does it cause - it abviously
hasn't killed the bulbs. Also, will it spread to other plants and what kind.
TIA
Pat
Pat zone 6b
proth...@aol.com
Mark A. Moore
>I've had bulbs for years and didn't know what this was. The bulbs are still
>alive and some have reporduced, and I do get blooms from some of them. Is
>there a cure for this red spot and what problems does it cause - it
abviously
>hasn't killed the bulbs. Also, will it spread to other plants and what
kind.
Well, from http://cygnus.tamu.edu/Texlab/Flowers/amaryllis.html
"Flower stalks are affected resulting in their being distorted and stunted.
Affected stalks have bright red lesions that are one-fourth to one-half
inches wide and several inches long. Affected flower stalks grow at an angle
instead of the normal erect manner. In the later stages of infection, a
white to brownish-gray mycelium develops in the center of cankers. The
fungus is carried over in bulbs and discolored bulbs should be discarded.
Foliar fungicides may be used to protect above-ground parts. "
As for other cures I got this from
http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~apkweb/fdacs/Cir162.htm
"Since the fungus may infect the bulbs, heavily infected bulbs should be
discarded. Infected scales from bulbs that are lightly infected should be
removed, and the bulbs immersed in water at 40°C (104°F) for 30 minutes."
And from http://www.ianr.unl.edu/pubs/Horticulture/g188.htm
"Discard diseased bulbs; keep air in greenhouse as dry as possible and at a
temperature of about 65° F; soak bulbs for 2 hours in formaldehyde solution
(1 pint to 12 gal water) provide ample light and keep temperature as low as
possible in forcing houses. Amaryllis zineb, ferbam or captan starting with
the small leaf stage and stopping at bloom time."
I have not tried any of the cures, although I will try Safer's garden sulfur
fungicide and let you know what happens. I can tell you that with the
previous set of Amaryllis, keeping them dry (in clay pots and the only water
they got was what the New England sky sent down) and in a well vented area
with mid-day and afternoon sun during the summer did effect improvement.
Also, remove the "paper" from the bulbs as it forms. Dig around a little
and get as much as you can. It keeps the damp away from the bulb. The
very-warm-water treatment also sounds easy enough. The formaldehyde option
is not for me.
From the pages mentioned above, Stagonospora also seems to affect wheat.
Mark
Mark A. Moore
not able to find an unaffected plant. They will refund my money if I report
that the Red Spot does in fact become an issue for the plant. They continue
to sell the plants because most people dispose of them after the forced
blooming season and don't experience the brunt of the problem. I suggested
that if the supplier cannot provide healthy plants they should find a new
supplier. If they can't find a supplier, they should simply not offer the
varieties. The rep will provide the feedback to the appropriate people. I
plan to print and fax to them all of the reponses to the original posting.
Speaking of which, can anyone tell me if Dutch Gardens or Breck's offers the
Picotee and Madame Butterfly varieties?
Jessie
>
> [snip] ...can anyone tell me if Dutch Gardens or Breck's offers the
> Picotee and Madame Butterfly varieties?
>
The 1998 Dutch Gardens catalog doesn't list either one.
They do have:
Clown
Rosemary
Christmas Gift
Floris Hecker
Nagano
Fortune
Nymph
Calimero (minature)
Amoretta (minature)
Does anyone know a source for "Spotty"? There were a lot of
them around a few years ago, but haven't seen it recently.
PRoth10698
re-blooming has been sporatic to say the least. I saw your other post also
about re-blooming and will try again.
Thanks again.
Kate Hunter
every order. This is usually mis-labeled plants which they do give me
credits for. In fact if anyone wants my unused $10 credit...
Their prices are outta sight for what you get. They really dont seem
to be trend setters, but followers. I find their attitude a bit snooty,
too. Last year they offered a rose which they said had too long been
ignored due to its difficult German name, so they gave it a new name.
This is really unethical. The German rose growers are renowned for their
work - they should at least get the respect of those who sell or grow
their hybrids.
--
|\ _,,,~~~,,_
/, .-'`' -. ;-;;,_
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'-~~''(_/--' `-'\_)
Kate Hunter
hun...@fern.igis.uiuc.edu
Gardening in East Central Illinois
Zone 5b
In article <36434574...@ix.netcom.com>, Dana Parker <dana...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> My first mail order amaryllis came from Breck's, and was perfectly
> satisfactory - it put up 3 bloom talks, one of which had 6 flowers! Since
> then I've been getting them locally, but nothing so far has compared with
> the first one. Unfortunately, it didn't make it through the summer.
>
> WWF is way overpriced, but they do occasionally have a great special on
> lily bulbs, which IMX have been perfectly healthy and vigorous, oversize
> bulbs.
>
> Mark A. Moore wrote:
>
> > This is the second time that I have ordered Amaryllis from White Flower
> > Farms. Two years ago I ordered a set of three. All came infected with
> > what I later discovered was Red Spot (Stagonospora). They cheerfully
> > refunded the money, but I would have rather had healthy plants.
> >
> > This year I ordered two more thinking they would not send another
> > diseased plant. After all, my perception of their reputation was that
> > it was good.
> >
> > Suprise.
> >
> > While my new Amaryllis Picotee has not yet sprouted a stalk -- it has
> > only been a few days -- the bulb itself is showing clear signs of Red
> > Spot.
> >
> > Has anyone else had this sort of problem? Should I simply not do
> > business with White Flower Farms?
> >
Cindi James
are so ridiculously overpriced (as many here have already attested to).
However, I love getting their beautiful catalogue, so every other year or
so I'll order something small from them. I (and my friend Stella, who is a
garden snob, and likes to order from WFF specifically--I think--because
they *are* ridiculously overpriced and she therefore thinks she is getting
a superior product, when she could go to the local nursery like I do and
get it at a much more reasonable price) have had good results with them,
however.
A couple years back they ran a special on Oriental lily bulbs, it was like
25 or 30 bulbs for around 20 bucks. Every one of those
suckers came up and they are divine. I love them, they look and smell
beautiful, and the price was great.
Stella's ajugas and lavender and whatever else she got from them has done
very well and outgrew her Spring Hill lavender (we did experiments that
year, ordering the same stuff from different companies and comparing how
they did). But still, if it's something fairly available at the nursery,
you might as well get it there. Their rose prices are so unbelievable!
<sniff>
cindi
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Life is good. My toilet hasn't overflowed once today.
cin...@cris.com*****http://www.cris.com/~cindij/
^v^
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Marilyn Catron
Garden Design they did us all a favor and had an article in the DIRT
section, the starting piece was titled Funny Business A breakup at White
Flower Farm, this is stemming from the Heaths who owned the family
business of the Daffodil Mart who thought they made a good deal selling
to WFF but got screwed, surprise, Garden Design ran an excellent piece,
and also did is a favor, they printed another piece called And the
Owner is.... of large firms eating up the smaller favorite sources, and
they are : WFF: The Daffodil Mart, Shepherd's Seeds...Park Seed:The
Cook's Garden,Wayside Gardens(!)..Hilton Company: R.H. Shumway,Vermont
Bean Seed, Totally tomatos, Seymour's Selected Seed, Mars, Inc.: Seeds
of Change, and Foster &Gallagher: Michigan Bulb(absolutely am totally
disgusted with these people as to the quality),Breck's Dutch Bulbs,
Spring Hill Nuseries, and Stark Brothers Nursery hope this opens the
eyes of alot of gardeners out there who demand quality, quantity, and
decent prices. If we hafta pay a bit more for exceptional products we
don't mind as much. It has gotten so with me personally that Michigan
Bulb despises me because I actually ask for the silly and rediculous
replacements that they give a lifetime warrenty, knowing that what they
send is immature bulbs(like the 200 gladiola's for $1.99, geeeze they
were cormels and wouldn't mature for three years. I figured out that
(once I became a more knowledgable gardener and discovering that they
didn't expect people to actually ask for too many replacements) they
also didn't care if you returned the wrong shipments, a woman who has
now left the company but who be-friended me told me to keep the wrong
daylilies they'd sent me because they just wound up in the trash
dumpster. I did try to plant the pathetic roots and slips into pots of
god soil to alow them to mature a bit, but it's just a waste of my time
and I don't even open their winning envelops anymore. Hope this alerts
you out there to some of the other corporations that have bought dear
friends, maybe if they don't get as much business they will get
better.......nahhhhh, they want that almight $$ keep in touch! the mad
gardener : mad...@bellsouth.net
Steve Rehrauer
> and also did is a favor, they printed another piece called And the
> Owner is.... of large firms eating up the smaller favorite sources, and
> they are : WFF: The Daffodil Mart, Shepherd's Seeds...Park Seed:The
> Cook's Garden,Wayside Gardens(!)..Hilton Company: R.H. Shumway,Vermont
> Bean Seed, Totally tomatos, Seymour's Selected Seed, Mars, Inc.: Seeds
> of Change, and Foster &Gallagher: Michigan Bulb(absolutely am totally
> disgusted with these people as to the quality),Breck's Dutch Bulbs,
> Spring Hill Nuseries, and Stark Brothers Nursery hope this opens the
> eyes of alot of gardeners out there who demand quality, quantity, and
> decent prices.
Interesting, thanks!
Well, I'm not sure I find some of that too alarming; I've had pretty good
luck with orders from Park Seeds, for example, so I wouldn't necessarily
expect poor quality from companies they've purchased.
I think the general (and accelerating) trend in seed company consolidation
is more disturbing to me for another reason: The big companies tend to want
to sell homogenized hybrid vegetable seeds aimed more at commercial growers
than home gardeners. What do I care whether a tomato "ships well", for
example? Or gawd forbid, a gene-spliced cultivar created for greater
herbicide resistance??
No, I'd rather have open-pollenated cultivars, of vegetable AND ornamentals,
that I can save seeds from and propagate on my own. Or trade with friends.
If it were only large _seed_ companies, it wouldn't bother me as much. But
my impression is that recently conglomerates with a large agro-chemical
presense, like Monsanto, Archer-Daniels-Midland and DuPont, have been buying
into the seed industry. Albeit, so far the buying seems to be of commercial
agri-biz companies like Pioneer Hi_bred, not of companies we home gardeners
buy from.
But why should the buying stop there? Monsanto clearly sells Roundup to
home owners as well as commercial growers. Why wouldn't they want to sell
seeds to both?
And it really does concern me to contemplate Monsanto & friends owning the
sources of seeds I can buy. Because, they are clearly not interested in
selling me heirloom varieties suited for my garden. Rather, they are
interested in selling me their agri-chemical products, and hybrid cultivars
that they've already spent R&D money to develop for commercial growers, and
that I can't save seed from.
(Think I'm being paranoid about that last? Forget the issue of hybrids not
breeding true from seed. Trying entering these words into your favorite
Web search engine: "Monsanto", "terminator" and "seed". I really don't
think I'm being too paranoid, for once.)
Of course, this may be a non-issue for most folks, though I do suspect most
are unaware of the kinds of consolidations that have been happening. --Steve
craig sweet
me. On a wholesale level there is much consolidation going on by the big boys,
and a squeezing of the small family farmer (grower). As a retailer this limits
my choices of suppliers, and thus my chances of finding quality at good prices
for my customers. The dollar amounts needed for a minimum order have gone up,
volume discounts(the amount before the discount kicks in) have gone up, to the
point where I can't and won't buy from several of the big growers. The large
vendors are making the decision that their future is with big box retailers. Big
box retailers get more favorable terms, larger discounts and in some cases free
frieght. So, the customer usually gets a better price. Quality and plant
knowledge is not always to be found at the big box store. Just like the local
hardware store that goes out of business, or the local bookstore, so too will the
local nursery. With it goes a business that "grew" with the community and
often gave a lot back to the community. Gone will be a business that supported
horticultural research (the source of most new plants) through it's association
with state and national trade associations. With it goes a source of much local
gardening info. How many of you have gone to the local independent nursery,
asked a bunch of question and then purchased at the big box store, or through a
catalog? As for the catalogs...I have yet to find one that can offer quality at
a price better than I can find at a local independent garden center.
Steve Rehrauer wrote:
> Marilyn Catron wrote:
>
> > and also did is a favor, they printed another piece called And the
> > Owner is.... of large firms eating up the smaller favorite sources, and
> > they are : WFF: The Daffodil Mart, Shepherd's Seeds...Park Seed:The
> > Cook's Garden,Wayside Gardens(!)..Hilton Company: R.H. Shumway,Vermont
> > Bean Seed, Totally tomatos, Seymour's Selected Seed, Mars, Inc.: Seeds
> > of Change, and Foster &Gallagher: Michigan Bulb(absolutely am totally
> > disgusted with these people as to the quality),Breck's Dutch Bulbs,
> > Spring Hill Nuseries, and Stark Brothers Nursery hope this opens the
> > eyes of alot of gardeners out there who demand quality, quantity, and
> > decent prices
> Of course, this may be a non-issue for most folks, though I do suspect most
Steve Rehrauer
> How many of you have gone to the local independent nursery,
> asked a bunch of question and then purchased at the big box store, or through a
> catalog?
Yup. I make it a point to buy locally when I can. Prices may seem higher
but I find that the plants are larger, less stressed out (no shipping),
acclimated to my neighborhood, blah blah.
On the other hand, unless you're lucky enough to live in an area with really
really good local nurseries (and even if you are -- no one place can possibly
grow it all), catalogs are a godsend. --Steve
Don & Jeanne Chapman
> And it really does concern me to contemplate Monsanto & friends owning
the
> sources of seeds I can buy. Because, they are clearly not interested in
> selling me heirloom varieties suited for my garden. Rather, they are
> interested in selling me their agri-chemical products, and hybrid
cultivars
> that they've already spent R&D money to develop for commercial growers,
and
> that I can't save seed from.
>
> (Think I'm being paranoid about that last? Forget the issue of hybrids
not
> breeding true from seed. Trying entering these words into your favorite
> Web search engine: "Monsanto", "terminator" and "seed". I really don't
> think I'm being too paranoid, for once.)
>
> Of course, this may be a non-issue for most folks, though I do suspect
most
> are unaware of the kinds of consolidations that have been happening.
--Steve
Steve - I don't think you are overly paranoid on this (but I can't vouch
for any other problems in that area you may have) ;-)
These major corporations have a "vision" and lots of money. I believe the
vision is that growers will someday have to purchase "Patented" seeds from
them every season. For the moment, this objective seems to be only geared
to the commercial market, and I rather doubt that the home grower will be
affected for many years to come (but wouldn't bet against it).
I find it fascinating that Monsanto is no longer a chemical company (with
the sole exception of their very profitable RoundUp, which also ties into
their "RoundUp-ready" soybean seeds). Seeing handwriting on the wall, they
have divested all their ag chemical products and are putting the money
behind genetically-engineered seeds and acquiring seed companies.
Is this necessarily bad? Maybe not, but I think it's fair to call the
whole idea controversial. Could there be some bad genie being let out of a
bottle that we can never put back? Who should decide these things?
--
Don Chapman <d...@bio-organics.com>
Bio/Organics Suppy Center
3200 Corte Malapaso, #107
Camarillo CA 93012
Info & Orders <http://www.bio-organics.com>
Steve Rehrauer
> These major corporations have a "vision" and lots of money. I believe the
> vision is that growers will someday have to purchase "Patented" seeds from
> them every season.
Yes, I think of it as "genetic renting".
> For the moment, this objective seems to be only geared
> to the commercial market, and I rather doubt that the home grower will be
> affected for many years to come (but wouldn't bet against it).
I hope it never comes to pass. My parents farm in Iowa, so I realize that
virtually no one farming commercially in developed countries saves seed
anyways these days. And the hybrids we plant wouldn't breed true even if
people did. But gosh, genetic diversity in our crops is vanishing SO fast
these days as it is! This just feels like nailing shut, bricking up, and
painting over that closed door.
> Is this necessarily bad? Maybe not, but I think it's fair to call the
> whole idea controversial. Could there be some bad genie being let out of a
> bottle that we can never put back? Who should decide these things?
I'm trying hard not to let my natural paranoic tendencies do too much
back-seat driving on the issue. But yeah, I wish there was a little
more discussion of it. --Steve
Kate Hunter
--
|\ _,,,~~~,,_
/, .-'`' -. ;-;;,_
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'-~~''(_/--' `-'\_)
Kate Hunter
hun...@fern.igis.uiuc.edu
Gardening in East Central Illinois
Zone 5b
In article <36515EB3...@bellsouth.net>, Marilyn Catron <mad...@bellsouth.net> writes:
> And now for the really crappy news: In the August/September issue of
> Garden Design they did us all a favor and had an article in the DIRT
> section, the starting piece was titled Funny Business A breakup at White
> Flower Farm, this is stemming from the Heaths who owned the family
> business of the Daffodil Mart who thought they made a good deal selling
> to WFF but got screwed, surprise, Garden Design ran an excellent piece,
> and also did is a favor, they printed another piece called And the
> Owner is.... of large firms eating up the smaller favorite sources, and
> they are : WFF: The Daffodil Mart, Shepherd's Seeds...Park Seed:The
> Cook's Garden,Wayside Gardens(!)..Hilton Company: R.H. Shumway,Vermont
> Bean Seed, Totally tomatos, Seymour's Selected Seed, Mars, Inc.: Seeds
> of Change, and Foster &Gallagher: Michigan Bulb(absolutely am totally
> disgusted with these people as to the quality),Breck's Dutch Bulbs,
> Spring Hill Nuseries, and Stark Brothers Nursery hope this opens the
> eyes of alot of gardeners out there who demand quality, quantity, and