Copper tubing used for trellis
Rev Chuck
>
> Has anyone heard of any trouble or problems with copper tubing
> used to build trellis' or arbors?
> I want to make a trellis for some clematis but don't know if the
> copper in the tubing will hurt, or poison the vines.
>
> The commercial stuff is made of steel, iron or wood. Is copper
> left out for a reason?
>
> Peter
Copper is soft, would likely sag under its own weight. It's also
more expensive than iron, mild steel, or wood. Toxicity? Hard to
say.
Considered using PVC conduit?
--
Creationism -- because the words are easier to spell.
Rev Chuck, Alt.Atheism #203, Ordained Reverend, ULC, 17 March, 1997.
Remove -REMOVE_THIS- from address to respond.
m&v
<cdub@-REMOVE_THIS-erols.com> wrote:
>
>Copper is soft, would likely sag under its own weight. It's also
>more expensive than iron, mild steel, or wood. Toxicity? Hard to
>say.
>
>Considered using PVC conduit?
I made an arbor out of copper pipe which is very sturdy. A 10 foot
length of 1/2 inch pipe was under 4 dollars. For a 5 foot, by 3 foot,
by 8 ft tall arbor, tools, solder, butane torch and copper was all
under 70 dollars with enough copper left to make a wind chime.
You have to put it together properly. Copper is far more rigid than
PVC pipe.
V
grdngal
Pedro 'Peter' Flores wrote:
> Has anyone heard of any trouble or problems with copper tubing
> used to build trellis' or arbors?
> I want to make a trellis for some clematis but don't know if the
> copper in the tubing will hurt, or poison the vines.
>
> The commercial stuff is made of steel, iron or wood. Is copper
> left out for a reason?
>
> Peter
Copper tubing used for arbors or trellises does not hurt plants. I have a large
rose arbor made of copper that has been in place for over three years - both the
roses and the clematis that are on this arbor are thriving. There is not a
significant amount of leaching occuring in the oxydation of the copper tubing to
be a problem. Copper is a trace mineral that is present in the soil and and in
fertilizers and is not harmful in propes doses.
gardengal
Wendy B G
>You have to put it together properly. Copper is far more rigid than
>PVC pipe.
It sounds lovely. Do you have any hints on how to design, assemble, and mount
it in the garden?
Wendy
P.S. Glad that you're feeling better and back with us.
Robert Dulik
No, copper will not hurt the plants or cause any problems.
Use the rigid (hard) type L or type M copper for strength
and stability in the design of your trellis.
Type L or M copper is sold in straight lengths, 10 foot long.
The flexible (soft) type copper is sold in coils or by the foot.
This type copper is suitable for any curves or fancy work that
will not have to support the weight of the plant.
I think the reason commercial trellises are not made of copper
is due to the price, copper is much more expensive than the
other items you mention. Copper trellises will, in time turn to
a rich green patina. Plans for trellises are available if you
CLICK HERE
Check it out for some ideas of what you can do.
Hope this helps,
Bob
m&v
Thank you Wendy. I can take a photo and put it up on my garden
webpage. I'll do that later in the season when I take photos of this
years garden. That way I can show the before and afters. It is
basically simple. It is going to be covered, anyway! As for mounting
it, I made it 12 inches taller than I had to and I sank it into the
clay that deep. That was not easy! But it is held tightly in there.
Once the clematis grows up on one side, and the jasmine on the
other...it will never move anywhere!
V-I'll post the photos when I take them.
Pedro 'Peter' Flores
C. A. Owens
Mostly because it is horrendously expensive, Peter. However, it will
also eventually kill the plants as it oxidizes.
Chris Owens
Toni
>not hurt plants.
BeeCrofter
>>not hurt plants.
>Copper is deadly to bromeliads.
>
Which Bromeliads require a trellis?
Tom
There is an extra Bee in the Email address after the AOL.com
m&v
<cao...@redsuspenders.com> wrote:
>Mostly because it is horrendously expensive, Peter. However, it will
>also eventually kill the plants as it oxidizes.
>
>Chris Owens
Where is that documented?
grdngal
"C. A. Owens" wrote:
> Pedro 'Peter' Flores wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone heard of any trouble or problems with copper tubing
> > used to build trellis' or arbors?
> > I want to make a trellis for some clematis but don't know if the
> > copper in the tubing will hurt, or poison the vines.
> >
> > The commercial stuff is made of steel, iron or wood. Is copper
> > left out for a reason?
>
> Mostly because it is horrendously expensive, Peter. However, it will
> also eventually kill the plants as it oxidizes.
>
> Chris Owens
This is nonsense. They have been using copper trellising in Europe for decades
as supports for climbing plants. The leachate from the oxidation is
insignificant, unless the plant is particularly sensitive to copper, which roses
and clematis are not. And it is not "horrendously expensive" either - my copper
arbor cost no more than a similar one of iron.
gardengal
Toni
without tillandsias attached.
Besides, it read "plants", not "traditional climbing vines and/orshrubs"
<g>.
>Copper tubing used for arbors or trellises does
>not hurt plants.
Thorwald....@t-online.de
grdngal schrieb in Nachricht <36DABE1B...@aa.net>...
Hello,
I'll try a short answer and I hope you understand what I try to tell in
english...
>This is nonsense. They have been using copper trellising in Europe for
decades
>as supports for climbing plants.
I live in Europe and I am a commercial producer of supports for climbers.
Copper was never a usual material for any kind of such constructions. The
traditional material was wood, later steel. Nowadays we use different
steels, wire ropes and glasfibre reinforced plastics.
(Look at http:// home.t-online.de/home/thorwald.brandwein/sumary.html)
The leachate from the oxidation is
>insignificant, unless the plant is particularly sensitive to copper, which
roses
>and clematis are not.
All plants are sensitive to CuSO4 and other products of copper-oxidation /
reaction with rainwater. You can even stop ivy growing by a sheet copper
which you fix on a facade.
Greetings
Thorwald Brandwein
www.biotekt.de
Zhanataya
Thorwald....@t-online.de wrote:
Your english is great. Is it the copper that stops the ivy growing, or the
fact it is a sheet of metal, plastic, glass, etc.? The ivy has nothing to
cling to so will not spread further. I suspect it continues to grow just not
in the direction of that particular barrier. Am I being too simplistic in my
understanding? Would you explain further?
--
Zhanataya
How come Kenny gets killed every episode?
arron
Zhanataya wrote:
> Thorwald....@t-online.de wrote:
> > I'll try a short answer and I hope you understand what I try to tell in
> > english...
> >
> > >This is nonsense. They have been using copper trellising in Europe for
> > decades
> > >as supports for climbing plants.
> >
> > I live in Europe and I am a commercial producer of supports for climbers.
> > Copper was never a usual material for any kind of such constructions. The
> > traditional material was wood, later steel. Nowadays we use different
> > steels, wire ropes and glasfibre reinforced plastics.
> > (Look at http:// home.t-online.de/home/thorwald.brandwein/sumary.html)
> >
> > All plants are sensitive to CuSO4 and other products of copper-oxidation /
> > reaction with rainwater. You can even stop ivy growing by a sheet copper
> > which you fix on a facade.
> >
> >
> Your english is great. Is it the copper that stops the ivy growing, or the
> fact it is a sheet of metal, plastic, glass, etc.? The ivy has nothing to
> cling to so will not spread further. I suspect it continues to grow just not
> in the direction of that particular barrier. Am I being too simplistic in my
> understanding? Would you explain further?
Copper especially soft copper is bad for plants (or other organisms for that matters)
Thorwald....@t-online.de
Zhanataya schrieb in Nachricht <36DB228E...@nospam-earthlink.net>...
>
>
>Thorwald....@t-online.de wrote:
>
>>
>> I live in Europe and I am a commercial producer of supports for climbers.
>> Copper was never a usual material for any kind of such constructions. The
>> traditional material was wood, later steel. Nowadays we use different
>> steels, wire ropes and glasfibre reinforced plastics.
>> (Look at http://home.t-online.de/home/thorwald.brandwein/sumary.html)
> Is it the copper that stops the ivy growing, or the
>fact it is a sheet of metal, plastic, glass, etc.? The ivy has nothing to
>cling to so will not spread further. I suspect it continues to grow just
not
>in the direction of that particular barrier. Am I being too simplistic in
my
>understanding? Would you explain further?
hello Zhanataya
I'll try ... It's hard because we use some special terms which you don't
find in any dictionary.
In english ivy means Hedera .... ("English ivy", in german "Efeu") _and_
Parthenocissus ..... ("Boston ivy", in german "Wilder Wein). Both are
self-clinging-climbers, but with absolutly different climbing-strategies.
The only thing in common is that it's nearly unpossible to remove the
climbing-organs from facades if you cut off the plants.
Hedera helix, H. colchica and others climb with special kinds of roots
(english: clinging-roots? I'll use this word.).
The "clinging root" has the same origin as a normal root, but primary
because of absent
dampness it becomes stunted to a short "clinging-root". This will stop
growing for ever if it's 5 to 10 millimeters long. Those short
clinging-organs never damage walls. Damages are possible, if because of
dampness grow "real" roots, or because young shoots are getting thicker by
the time.
Hedera needs walls or facades with a rough surface to get hold enough on it.
Therefore you can form a boundary for Hedere with sheets of every smooth
material.
Parthenocissus climbs primary with tendrils. Parthenocissus tricuspidata and
P. quinquefolia var. engelmannii have "cling-discs" at the end of the
tendril. This climbing-strategy has absolutly nothing to do with roots.
The "cling-discs" find hold on very smooth surfaces, such as platics, metals
and even glass. --- Parthenocissus grows over everything , except sheet
copper !
In Germany we call copper generally as "plant-toxic".
But there is another reason that makes copper unsiutable. Not only men,
also plants get damaged by temperatures higher than 42° C (ca. 108 F).
Older copper has a dark surface, and under the sun it can get very hot (-
70° C). It's very heat conductive. Specially winding vines get problems
with this.
Greetings
Thorwald Brandwein
www.biotekt.de
Zhanataya
Thorwald....@t-online.de wrote:
Great explanation. I understand now. Thanks
--
Zhanataya
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
Albert Schweitzer
TeichFlora
their opinion???
Interested in making a trellis out of copper, but would like more info on pros
and cons,
Noreen
(zone 9, Gulf Coast)
D. Michael McIntyre
>their opinion???
>Interested in making a trellis out of copper, but would like more info on pros
>and cons,
Copper in of itself should not IMHO be extremely toxic to plants any
more than it is to humans under normal circumstances.
My big concern is (sulphuric) acid rain. Copper sulphate is what you
put in sewer lines to kill tree roots. If the rain is even slightly
acidic, copper sulphate could form and leach into the ground. I don't
know how damaging this might be over time, but I don't imagine that
it's especially good for plants or people.
Having said this, I'd probably try it anyway.
---
D. Michael McIntyre | mmci...@swva.net