natural spring running though my yard, how do I cover up water/land??
Joseph_
Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring running
though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and 1-1.5 feet
in width. What is the best way to cover this up? Grass won't grow there
because the seeds keeping running with the water. I am not really sure I want
grass growning there because of the wet ground. I want to dress it up somehow
or even elimate it if possible. I am also afraid that my yard will saturate
and cause my finished basement to get ruined. Please advice. Thanks in
Advance.
counides,n
A natural stream sounds so tempting. I wonder how it could be turned
into a water garden. Water gardens can be wonderful. They are
beautiful, restful and you don't have to mow them. I think there is a
newsgroup called rec.gardens.ponds. I think they could be really
helpful.
Naomi Counides
Associated Beefalo of Idaho
Harriett Wright
> I think there is a
> newsgroup called rec.gardens.ponds.
rec.ponds
Paul Dietz
Joseph_ wrote:
>
> Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring running
> though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and 1-1.5 feet
> in width. What is the best way to cover this up?
Sounds like part of your property is a wetland. Please check with a
lawyer,
since damaging a wetland -- even on your own property -- is a violation
of
federal law.
Aren't constitutional rights wonderful?
Paul
David S Inman
Newsgroup that I think Naomi referred to is rec.ponds
Dave Inman
counides,n <bee...@micron.net> wrote in article
<343546...@micron.net>...
> Joseph_ wrote:
> >
> > Hello, I have a small section of my land where the
natural spring running
> > though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in
lenght and 1-1.5 feet
> > in width. What is the best way to cover this up?
Grass won't grow there
> > because the seeds keeping running with the water. I am
not really sure I want
> > grass growning there because of the wet ground. I want
to dress it up somehow
> > or even elimate it if possible. I am also afraid that
my yard will saturate
> > and cause my finished basement to get ruined. Please
advice. Thanks in
> > Advance.
>
> A natural stream sounds so tempting. I wonder how it
could be turned
> into a water garden. Water gardens can be wonderful.
They are
> beautiful, restful and you don't have to mow them. I
think there is a
Kay Cangemi
> Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring running
> though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and 1-1.5 feet
> in width. What is the best way to cover this up? Grass won't grow there
> because the seeds keeping running with the water. I am not really sure I
want
> grass growning there because of the wet ground. I want to dress it up
somehow
> or even elimate it if possible. I am also afraid that my yard will saturate
> and cause my finished basement to get ruined. Please advice. Thanks in
> Advance.
If you really want to cover it over, you'll have to figure out how to drain
the water to another place. Drainage pipes to a culvert will work.
Otherwise you could plant a bog garden, or build a natural pond. Grass
isn't a good choice for naturally wet areas.
How much trouble your basement is in depends on how high the water table
is. The spring water may be coming from further down, or may be about the
level of the water table. It depends on your geology. I have a very small
spring that is about a foot above the water table. The water table is about
ten feet below my basement floor, and about two feet below my neighbors'
basement floor. I have had no problems, my neighbors have.
--
Kay Cangemi
New York, USDA zone 5
Paul Cimins
Okay, so the water table is very high in this one section of your yard.
There's really nothing you can do to change that-I've never heard of anyone
being able to change the water table. It might be only a seasonal
thing-like it only gurgles in the spring. Do you know-did you just move to
this home? Anyway, you could fill it in, and plant grass, but why would you
want to. This is a great opportunity for a water feature in your yard. You
could put some big, flat stones down, and maybe get some trickling sounds.
And think of all the hydrophytes you could plant. I see cattails-lots of
em. The possibilities are endless-I'm GREEN with envy. Anyway, no matter
what you do, I don't think you're going to be able to control the amount of
water reaching your basement unless you are somehow able to divert(?) the
water. But I think there are some controls available for people with damp
basements-you know, for like those people who insist on building their
homes on flood planes. Anyway, good luck, and think "water garden."
-Adrienne
Joseph_ <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<612u7e$c...@cocoa.brown.edu>...
Paul Cimins
Paul Dietz <di...@interaccess.com> wrote in article
<3436E65C...@interaccess.com>...
> Joseph_ wrote:
> >
> > Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring
running
> Sounds like part of your property is a wetland. Please check with a
> lawyer,
> since damaging a wetland -- even on your own property -- is a violation
> of
> federal law.
> Aren't constitutional rights wonderful?
>
> Paul
me. Wetlands are one of the fastest depleting habitats; until just
recently, not even scientists saw their worth. They were mostly filled in
by farmers, and developers. I can sort of sympathize with the farmers, but
when I think of the developers the image I see is Atlantic City hotels and
"bye, bye salt water marsh." I know it's sort of a tangent, but I just had
to say-Thanks for bringing it up, and I think that most of us can
understand the reason for the laws, as it seems that many here are organic
gardeners and have great appreciation for the natural world. But back to
Joseph's dilema-it seems as though the "wetland" has already been altered,
judging from his description of the grass seed. But it would still be a
good idea to consult with local authorities.
-Adrienne
pman
I have a similar situation near my garage. Seems like you have a small area
like mine. I planted some shrubs around the spring perimeter several years
ago. I sometimes still hear it gurgling, but would have a seriously
difficult time getting near the area. I put in one burning bush, several
forsythia, and some lilacs. They have grown together enough at the top, and
drape pretty close to the ground. This clump of bushes is attractive most
of the year, and effectively eliminates the wet area as a nuisance. Legal,
too - as long as you plant on surrounding dry ground.
Keith
Joseph_ wrote in message <612u7e$c...@cocoa.brown.edu>...
>Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring running
Scott Barber
In article <3438F8...@flexwood.com>, mi...@flexwood.com wrote:
>
>It's your yard, if you want to fill the thing in go ahead and do it.
>There are also knee jerk liberals in the land.
>
>Mike
I really don't want to feed a political war, here. These are huge issues
being addressed!
I would like to say, though, that there is legitimate reason to at least
examine the idea that we "own" or that it is really possible to own land.
In the scheme of the natural world (in which we DO live... and die) we are
essentially not really more than "renters" from our children and
grandchildren.
Covering up natural spring is a relatively small death. But a death
nonetheless. Why not think of a way to plan around it, and have a
slightly more "nature-friendly" back yard!?!
Scott
$$$$$$$$ Elections that are For Sale Are Not Free $$$$$$$$$$$
Scott Barber sbarbe...@pythonmindspring.com
!! Remove "monty python" to send e-mail !!
New Context Video Productions (leave the @...)
Asheville NC
C. Brunner
In article <3436E65C...@interaccess.com> Paul Dietz <di...@interaccess.com> writes:
>Joseph_ wrote:
>> Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring running
>> though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and 1-1.5 feet
>> in width. What is the best way to cover this up?
>Sounds like part of your property is a wetland. Please check with a
>lawyer...
Don't panic. I'm not a lawyer, either (and you *should* check on the
legalities of all this), but, I'd be surprised if a 2.5 x 3.5-ft "spring"
would really qualify as a "wetland". They *are* strictly defined, though, so
ask someone--maybe a county extension agent can send you in the right
direction. Is there enough flow to create a running stream, or is it just a
"seep"? It's a pain to try to build around one, but please try to figure out
how to preserve the water flow. Water attracts wildlife--birds come to drink
and scavange; frogs come to mate and sing; unusual plants sprout; the
possibilities are endless. (I found a newly hatched turtle the size of a
quarter just downstream from our pond last week.)
C. Brunner
P h i l
excavate it, turn it into a fish pond, both deep and shallow ends, plant
wildfowl feed, etc... stock with fish the kids, grandkids, etc would
love catching, then enjoy..... You didn't destroy a wetland, you
enhanced one, and because you "developed" it, it becomes a manmade
thing, which only you control, not the government....
At least, that's what I would do.... and I wouldn't ask their permission
either! My home, my castle....... enviro's go to heck!
Phil
--
(antispam - to reply via email, remove the 23 from my address)
Alan_Browning
In article <34390D...@ibm.net>, gold...@ibm.net says...
>At least, that's what I would do.... and I wouldn't ask their permission
>either! My home, my castle....... enviro's go to heck!
It doesn't sound like a wetland, but you never know. When you bought your
property you would have been told at that time that it was.
A friend of mine bought a house on 20 acres with a small creek running across
the middle. The creek is a registered wetland. The Department of Environmental
Management rules state that he can't drive a motor vehicle across the creek.
This is something he would like to do because he has a huge stand of pines on
the other side that could be turned into boards which would make really nice
siding for the barn he's putting up. The rules also state that animals can have
access to the creek. He has some draft horses so he could use them to drag the
logs across.
Makes no sense to me though. His truck would probably be easier on the wetlands
than his draft horses.
Alan
Paul Dietz
David Marcus wrote:
> >Aren't constitutional rights wonderful?
>
> Bullshit. Please take your knee-jerk conservative politics somewhere else,
Unfortunately, I'm over my creel limit, so I'm going to have
to toss you back.
Paul
"whose meadow frogs would like a natural spring"
Mike DiGiuro
David Marcus wrote:
>
> Paul Dietz <di...@interaccess.com>
> (in rec.gardens, on Sat, 04 Oct 1997 19:59:08 -0500):
>
> >Sounds like part of your property is a wetland. Please check with a
> >since damaging a wetland -- even on your own property -- is a violation
> >of
> >federal law.
> >
>
> do a little research so to make more precise scare postings. Wetlands under a
> minimum of several acres -- four, I believe -- are not covered. AFAIK, there
> is no constitutional right for landowners to destroy habitat, esp. when they
> purchase properties that have pre-existing known conditions that are covered
> under law. Of course, if landowners like you would see themselves as
> "stewards" who live as part of communities (rather than individual "users")
> and they were concerned with the effect of their actions (i.e., land
> change/development) on the community instead of only their own gain, there
> would not be laws regarding development such as this.
>
> Apologies for strong language.
>
> D
Paul,
Krieger
Be careful making any modifications to a naturally occurring wet area on
your property. If it is officially classified as a wetland, you could be
in violation of federal law if you fill it or drain it. I know it sounds
stupid, but this is the result of the 1985 Farm Bill. If it had been
drained or filled before that time , you would have been okay. You can
find out if it is a wetland by contacting your local Farm Service Agency
(formerly known as the Soil Conservation Service, plus a few other
agencies).
If you were a business, or, I suppose, a governmental entity, you could
fill and drain with relative
impunity. However, if you are a farmer or a homeowner, watch out.
Big Brother is most likely to learn about violators from their neighbors,
so I hope you're on good terms with all of them. I hope I didn't scare
you.
In the event you are prohibited from draining or filling this nuisance, you
could try lowering the water table by planting several large-growing,
water-loving trees in the area to use up some of the water, such as
cottonwood or willow.
Good luck.
>
> Joseph_ <ja...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
> <612u7e$c...@cocoa.brown.edu>...
> > Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring
running
>
> > though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and 1-1.5
> feet
Bob
>Joseph_ wrote:
>> Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring running
>> though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and 1-1.5 feet
>> in width. What is the best way to cover this up?
There's a gentleman here in town who bought a large lot in a very
expensive neighborhood. He got an incredibly low price on the lot
because it had a number of such springs in the back yard. Well, he used
the springs to create landscaped streams and ponds. Now his backyard is
a paradise and the showplace of the neighborhood. His house is now
definitely the most valuable lot in the neighborhood.
When life hands you lemons, make lemonade ( and profits). ;-)
ps. blocked water has to go somewhere, it may back up to a much more
unpleasant location such as under you foundation...
MktgMan1
Oh man, you just won the landscaping lottery and don't even know it! What a
blessing to have a natural spring! The landscaping possibilities are
endless...and the birds will love it!
Billy Darnell
Here in Tennessee, I know of two homes which were built on top of small
springs. Both were supposedly "filled" before building. One has darned near
slid in the Tennessee River; the other smells like mildew.
Moral: don't build over a spring. If you want to move it a small ways from
the spot where it flows, dig a ditch, bury some good PVC drainage pipe big
enough to handle the flow. Springs may do strange things when they are
messed with.
Bill
Cyndi Norman
> > > running though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and
> > > because the seeds keeping running with the water. I am not really sure I
> > > want grass growning there because of the wet ground. I want to dress
it up
> > > somehow
> > > or even elimate it if possible. I am also afraid that my yard will
> > > saturate
> > > and cause my finished basement to get ruined. Please advice. Thanks in
> > > Advance.
Sorry, I missed the orginal and some of the responses so I don't know if
someone has already made these suggestions. Many people go to great
lengths to create wet spots in their gardens. Assuming there is no legal
issue (check with your city or county agencies) and no problem with
flooding to your basement (check with the appropriate professional), you
could have great fun with this asset to your property.
Is the spring supposed to be underground? I have a "creek" running through
the back of my property. It's a storm drain creek. On my block and
several other points along its course it runs through a large pipe buried
in the ground. I would never have known about it if it hadn't been
mentioned on the title when we bought the house. If a wet spot develops
near the pipe then I'll know it's leaking and I have to call the city. I
assume you would know if the spring is supposed to be gurgling or not, but
thought I'd mention this just in case.
Perhaps you could turn it into a pool/pond. Deepen the hole and/or add a
bottom. Then add fish, frogs, or water plants etc. Be extra sure to check
that this is okay with your local agencies though cause if the spring is a
runoff (storm drain) creek it probably can't be kept from continuing to
run. Also, if you are in an area where that water could have possibly gone
through farmland or streets or anyplace where it got chemical residues, you
probably don't want fish or edible plants there.
You can also grow water plants or plants that like boggy conditions. Check
out books at your library for ideas and for the list of ones that will grow
in your area. Some possibilities: cranberries, rice, wild rice, lotus,
water chestnuts (can you tell I have a bias towards edibles? :-).
Another possibility (and one that might help control ground saturation) is
to put in a rock-lined creek bottom. This is very decorative (often put in
on purpose, with or without water) and will help with drainage, directing
the water, and with making it clear where the wet ground is (especially for
children playing in the yard). Get advice from a professional on how to do
this. Sunset books have some ideas and plans though. Then you could grow
water-loving plants along the "banks" of your "creek."
Good luck and have fun with it.
Cyndi
_______________________________________________________________________________
Oakland, California Zone 9 USDA; Zone 16 Sunset Western Garden Guide
Disabled, chemically sensitive, wheelchair user Organic Gardening only
_______________________________________________________________________________
"There's nothing wrong with me. Maybe there's Cyndi Norman
something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG) cno...@best.com
__________________________________________________ http://www.best.com/~cnorman
Michael Courtney
David Marcus (David...@MindSpring.com) wrote:
: Bullshit. Please take your knee-jerk conservative politics somewhere else, or
: do a little research so to make more precise scare postings. Wetlands under a
: minimum of several acres -- four, I believe -- are not covered.
You may be right about the minimum acreage as the regulations regarding
wetlands keep changing. However, the last time I looked into it there
was no minimum area for a wetland to be protected.
:AFAIK, there
: is no constitutional right for landowners to destroy habitat, esp. when they
: purchase properties that have pre-existing known conditions that are covered
: under law.
The wetland regulations make no allowance for whether or not the wetland
was pre-existing or came into being naturally or artificially after land
was purchased. If the wetland exists, it's protected. So if heavy rains,
a blown-down tree, a beaver dam, of excavation project create a new
wetland, it comes under governmental control. You need to jump through
government hoops to change it back.
Wildlife are the legal property of the state. Forcing landowners to
leave areas as wetlands so that wildlife can have a home is the taking
of private property for public use because the public owns the wildlife.
What if the governemt owned a herd of cows and told me I could not
build on a pasture because I had to maintain the habitat for their animals?
If the government wants habitat for their animals, they should buy the
land or compensate landowners for use of private land.
: Of course, if landowners like you would see themselves as
: "stewards" who live as part of communities (rather than individual "users")
: and they were concerned with the effect of their actions (i.e., land
: change/development) on the community instead of only their own gain, there
: would not be laws regarding development such as this.
Stewardship is a funny thing. Some areas need more wetlands. Some areas
need more agricultural land. Some areas need more housing. In a free country
where private property ownership is protected by the constitution, it should
be left to the property owner to decide what the best stewardship is.
Private property ownership is protected by the constitution. Wildlife
habitat is not. If you want the government to justly have the power
to usurp private property rights for wildlife habitat, why not take
the high road and fight for a constitutional amendment? If you want
wildlife to have habitat, take some of you hard earned dollars and
buy some wetlands. Leave my money and my property alone.
--
Michael Courtney, Ph. D.
mic...@amo.mit.edu
dwil...@minisink.com
> >
> > Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring running
> > though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and 1-1.5 feet
> > in width. What is the best way to cover this up?
>
> lawyer,
> since damaging a wetland -- even on your own property -- is a violation
> of
> federal law.
>
> Aren't constitutional rights wonderful?
>
seriously? lets relax with federal law. its his freaking yard.
penm...@aol.com
>Paul Dietz wrote:
>> Joseph_ wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring running
>> > though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and 1-1.5 feet
>> > in width. What is the best way to cover this up?
>>
>> Sounds like part of your property is a wetland. Please check with a
>> lawyer, since damaging a wetland -- even on your own property -- is a violation
>> of federal law.
>>
>> Aren't constitutional rights wonderful?
>
something on this matter as I have done much research.
In this case I doubt federal wetlands law applies but it may fall
under state and/or county wetlands law... also there does exist
riparian rights so I would suggest querying the town and/or county
before making any alterations because such situations often fall
under wildlife rulings.... it may be illegal to obstruct wildlife from
access to natural water phenomenae or even to do planting or disturb
vegetation within a certain distance.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Water+Rights
Stagger Lee
Bob F
reported!
David E. Ross
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com>
Consider:
* Most state mandate that drivers have liability insurance.
* Employers are mandated to have worker's compensation insurance.
* If you live in a flood zone, flood insurance is mandatory.
* If your home has a mortgage, fire insurance is mandatory.
Why then is mandatory health insurance so bad??
Frank
> On 5/3/2017 5:00 AM, dwil...@minisink.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 4, 1997 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Paul Dietz wrote:
>>> Joseph_ wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello, I have a small section of my land where the natural spring running
>>>> though my yard gurgles. This section is 2.5-3 feet in lenght and 1-1.5 feet
>>>> in width. What is the best way to cover this up?
>>>
>>> Sounds like part of your property is a wetland. Please check with a
>>> lawyer,
>>> since damaging a wetland -- even on your own property -- is a violation
>>> of
>>> federal law.
>>>
>>> Aren't constitutional rights wonderful?
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> seriously? lets relax with federal law. its his freaking yard.
>>
>
> WTF! Why did you reply to a 20-year-old message?
>
protect purity of navigable water ways. They extended their authority
to include anything one of their people walked to and got their feet
wet. Clear example of government over reach.
