Medina, soil activator
J Kolenovsky
--
J Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
ô¿ô - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/reference.html
Tom Jaszewski
wrote:
>Has anyone ever used this stuff?
Numerous producers of these kinds of products have "invaded" my office
since we started using natural products. Most of us involved in the
production of compost tea have produced tea far more diverse and
effective than the "soil activator"s on the market.
As usual with many of these miracle products they offer NO data. We
have the data with compost tea from Dr. Ingham.
Here are two sources of information. The KIS brewer is around $100USD
and brews at a cost of under $1-gallon.
Bruce at EPM produces bigger commercial machines. I operate a 500
gallon
www.composttea.com
"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
- Thomas Edison
J Kolenovsky
I have talked to about 20-25 people who say Medina is good. In the
application I used it for yesterday. it was a topical application in a
long range, ongoing construction of a habitat.
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/Dscn0421.jpg
I am thrilled about your 500 gallon and your contacts. I'd love to stop
in, but I'm a bit east of you, about 150 miles. Do you have experience
with Medina?
--
J Kolenovsky
I have talked to about 20-25 people who say Medina is good. In the
application I used it for yesterday. it was a topical application in a
long range, ongoing construction of a habitat.
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/Dscn0421.jpg
I am thrilled about your 500 gallon and your contacts. I'd love to stop
in, but I'm a bit east of you, about 150 miles. Do you have experience
with Medina?
--
Tom Jaszewski
wrote:
>Do you have experience
>with Medina?
I have not had any experience with products and sales persons
providing nothing more than anecdotal information on their products.
As I tried to point out CT will vastly exceed any components Medina is
able to bottle. Soil biota from tea are far more complex and diverse
than anything Medina or anyone else can bottle. Helena bioscience
division has produced a number of soil foods that have tested and
proven effects. They also have good scientific data.
Your own well made compost brewed into a tea is likely the source of
soil development far beyond anything in a jug.
BTW I am far more than 150 miles from you. Should you ever be in Las
Vegas, I'd happily show you the tea systems here.
Regards,
tomj
Tom Jaszewski
wrote:
>it was a topical application in a
>long range, ongoing construction of a habitat.
>http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/Dscn0421.jpg
Plastic mat covering the root zone? What am I seeing here?
Regards,
tomj
J Kolenovsky
grass and prpare sire for a naturalized setting.
--
J Kolenovsky
who frequents this ng and austin.gardening and he was from Houston and
moved to the hill country. I think he was from Baytown.
Must be a bad hair day because I don't think it is you..
2. I like talking to people who are smarter than me. I learn a lot from
the data they give me. Many od us on on different journeys at different
times. Mine just started.
3. Will be in Clark county in March and appreciate the invite but the
agenda is already made out.
I have heard of Medina for years. I never used it. Used some yesterday
and today put dry molasses on top of the tilled soil. I played in the
mud. Hey, send me some recipes that I can experiment with.
I'm never in the office so salesmen can call on me because I don't have
one and my company is me from 8-5. After that, my company is my company
I keep myself.
--
Tom Jaszewski
Do you try to use plants with the same biological soil preferences as
the trees?
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 00:16:37 -0600, J Kolenovsky <gar...@hal-pc.org>
wrote:
>Solarization of turf with 4 mil plastic for a month aand a half to kill
>grass and prpare sire for a naturalized setting.
>
Tom Jaszewski
wrote:
>1. I must have mistaken you for someone else.
Oh Oh
>2. I like talking to people who are smarter than me.
Me too. I've spent 100 or more hours with Dr, Ingham and finding
myself to be in the position of having to relearn most of what I was
taught in the traditional landscape community.
>3. Will be in Clark county in March and appreciate the invite but the
>agenda is already made out.
I will email my response, if that's OK?
>I have heard of Medina for years. I never used it. Used some yesterday
>and today put dry molasses on top of the tilled soil. I played in the
>mud. Hey, send me some recipes that I can experiment with.
Molasses is effective in increasing bacteria by feeding it. Careful! A
soil biology profile would pay for itself ten fold.
>I'm never in the office so salesmen can call on me because I don't have
>one and my company is me from 8-5. After that, my company is my company
>I keep myself.
>
I'd enjoy that! although caustic as I am I scare most away....
J Kolenovsky
>
> Your technique matches the beauty of your work, well thought!
>
> Do you try to use plants with the same biological soil preferences as
> the trees?
Although that got me thinking, I do use native plants extensively from
our area. The 2 dominant tess are Water Oak and Southern Wax Myrtle,
which as considered native to this area.
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 00:16:37 -0600, J Kolenovsky <gar...@hal-pc.org>
> wrote:
>
> >Solarization of turf with 4 mil plastic for a month aand a half to kill
> >grass and prepare site for a naturalized setting.
> Regards,
>
> tomj
J Kolenovsky
>
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 00:31:19 -0600, J Kolenovsky <gar...@hal-pc.org>
> wrote:
>
> >1. I must have mistaken you for someone else.
>
> Oh Oh
>
> >2. I like talking to people who are smarter than me.
>
> Me too. I've spent 100 or more hours with Dr, Ingham and finding
> myself to be in the position of having to relearn most of what I was
> taught in the traditional landscape community.
I hope that I may have an advantage here, as I'm starting the business
using home-taught concepts and native plants. It's kinda of cool when an
Aggie landscaper says they went to school for 4 years to learn the trade
and I do good work with no formal education.
>
> >3. Will be in Clark county in March and appreciate the invite but the
> >agenda is already made out.
>
> I will email my response, if that's OK?
My wife's company sends them to Vegas for 3 days every year for awards
banquets. I am not a good gambler and rarely win so we shop and tour.
See what we did this year at Vegas:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/vegas2.html,
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/vegas1.html,
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/vegas3.html. It was a 12 hour day, toured
in an Expedition and had lunch, non-alcoholic beverages and cost $260 a
head. It was awesome.
I was in Vegas for 1 1/2 days in October and had a 1/2 day to kill.
Found some Minnetonka Moose shoes that are bullet-proof, water resistant
and sooo soft. Goota get more this March. Maybe I might could stop in
your place. Send me an addy and phone. That Vegas trip encompassed
Laramie, WY, Thornton, CO, Boulder, CO, Tucson, AZ and Las Vegas, NV.
Had a whole day off in Tucson and could have gone to BIOSPHERE 2 but
either forgot or didn't know about it until after I left.
>
> >I have heard of Medina for years. I never used it. Used some yesterday
> >and today put dry molasses on top of the tilled soil. I played in the
> >mud. Hey, send me some recipes that I can experiment with.
>
> Molasses is effective in increasing bacteria by feeding it. Careful! A
> soil biology profile would pay for itself ten fold.
Tell me more. What is this? Send soil sample to County Extension agent?
Sounds like it but clarification is requested.
Last night I was talking to a friend and he said seaweed, kelp and fish
emulsion are good to add to Molasses and Medina.
>
> >I'm never in the office so salesmen can call on me because I don't have
> >one and my company is me from 8-5. After that, my company is my company
> >I keep myself.
> >
>
> I'd enjoy that! although caustic as I am I scare most away....
Over the past few years, I've come to accept all kinds of personalities.
> Regards,
>
> tomj
Joe Doe
> Last night I was talking to a friend and he said seaweed, kelp and fish
> emulsion are good to add to Molasses and Medina. =
>
> -- =
>
> J Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
> =F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/reference.html
In general you seem to be a very strong advocate for natural landscaping
and native trees and seem to be anti lawn etc I seem to see a
contradiction: if you are throwing in all native stuff why should you
bother adding amendments that are clearly "naturally" never present. If
the vegetation is truly native you should be able to throw it in and let
it tough it out because it is truly adapted. I do not think that
molasses, fish emulsion etc. etc..... were ever available. Should'nt a
benefit of native plants be that you do not have to fuss about them?
Roland
Tom Jaszewski
wrote:
>why should you
>bother adding amendments that are clearly "naturally" never present.
Pretty clueless attitude. Soil biota in naturally occurring tree and
shrub stands are highly diverse. That is seldom the case in created
landscape. Try reading a little reforestation research!
Joe Doe
"noneforme." wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:37:58 -0600, no...@mail.utexas.edu (Joe Doe)
> wrote:
>
> >why should you
> >bother adding amendments that are clearly "naturally" never present.
>
>
> Pretty clueless attitude. Soil biota in naturally occurring tree and
> shrub stands are highly diverse. That is seldom the case in created
> landscape. Try reading a little reforestation research!
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> tomj
Please cite some articles in peer reviewed journals on the effect of
molasses and fish emulsion and "medina soil activator" on numbers and
diversity of soil biota.
Roland
Tom Jaszewski
Please read the thread.....
Compost teas are used in increasing soil biota. Molasses and fish
emulsion are common ingredients. Sugars are used to feed and grow soil
bacteria.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:02:08 -0600, no...@mail.utexas.edu (Joe Doe)
wrote:
>Please cite some articles in peer reviewed journals on the effect of
>molasses and fish emulsion and "medina soil activator" on numbers and
>diversity of soil biota.
>
>Roland
Joe Doe
"noneforme." wrote:
> Rollie,
>
>
> Please read the thread.....
>
>
> Compost teas are used in increasing soil biota. Molasses and fish
> emulsion are common ingredients. Sugars are used to feed and grow soil
> bacteria.
>
> www.google.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:02:08 -0600, no...@mail.utexas.edu (Joe Doe)
> wrote:
>
> >Please cite some articles in peer reviewed journals on the effect of
> >molasses and fish emulsion and "medina soil activator" on numbers and
> >diversity of soil biota.
> >
> >Roland
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
Looks like you cannot provide any peer reviewed article. So you seem
ignorant of any true scientific (peer reviewed) studies on stuff you
purport to be expert in. So you seem ill prepared to be advising me to go
read papers on reforestation!!
I do not doubt the efficacy of compost. I do not undervalue the presence
of soil biota. I am merely pointing out that a native flora should
ALREADY be adapted to grow in in its native area that is the whole point
of going native. My original point was and remains: nothing needs to
be "activated" for a native plant. If in fact you had to "activate" your
environment then you might as well go whole hog and do what all the worlds
Arboreteums do: grow whatever you want by carefully manipulating the
environment.
That plants need nutrients and that they may be present in the numerous
things gardeners choose to add is a different issue.
Roland
Tom Jaszewski
Good land man, when we are creating landscapes in "constructed" soils
the naturally occurring biota hardly exist. There is little of the
diversity found in an untouched native grouping. That's essentially
the discursion. Cut the snot nosed peer reviewed crap. It's there,
frankly I'm not interested in spending the time arguing with, and
providing you with the resources.
www.google.com
www.soilfoodweb.com
www.attra.org
Have you ever completed a landscape project? Ever imported mined or
salvaged soils? The biota are not self creating in the short term
(10-20 years). Ever wonder why mycorhizae species are identified,
cultured and injected into rooted soils.
Expert, me? No, but a damn effective gardener who has learned to use
the readily available research in building soil biology. Built to
encourage stronger growth, quicker adaptation, and sustainable city
gardens.
BTW I was at SFI in Oregon with 30 farmers who are adapting the same
principles
Sorry, Rollie you missed the boat....
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:58:13 -0600, no...@mail.utexas.edu (Joe Doe)
wrote:
> I am merely pointing out that a native flora should
>ALREADY be adapted to grow in in its native area that is the whole point
>of going native.
J Kolenovsky
of the lot for over 41 years and inefficient landscape management was
practiced. The soil base was infertile and devoid of nutrients. The
microherd was at the lowest level the grade had seen in decades. The
site will have a fresh start going forward.
J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com
mailto:gar...@celestialhabitats.com
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden
mailto:gar...@hal-pc.org
--
J Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
zhanataya
wrote:
>In article <3E0F65A2...@hal-pc.org>, gar...@hal-pc.org wrote:
Good question and good point. I also garden with native and/or
readily adapted plants for my area. I don't amend the soil. I save
all my compost for my container gardening. That's where I indulge in
all the "I gotta have" plants.
As for the native plants I do however use a commercial fertilizer
because I plant much more densely than Mother Nature does. I also
supply additional water until they are well established.
The one time I did amend the soil for some native plants, azaleas in
this case the results were less than stellar. I wound up digging them
up and moving them to undisturbed beach sand and they perked right up.
Zhan
J Kolenovsky
each other, if I recall.
It must be one of those things of uniqueness. We all have our ways. The
permaculture people say don't till. Other people say they till. I have
always been one to organically boost my soil by getting the microherd
stampeding.
J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com
mailto:gar...@celestialhabitats.com
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden
mailto:gar...@hal-pc.org
> >>In article <3E0F65A2...@hal-pc.org>, gar...@hal-pc.org wrote:
> >> Last night I was talking to a friend and he said seaweed, kelp and fish
> >> emulsion are good to add to Molasses and Medina.
> >> J Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP> >Roland
MLEBLANCA
writes:
>The clients yard had SAD (St. Augustine decline). [.......]
Wow I knew I suffered from SAD, and now I know what
it is. " Saint Augustine Decline"......sounds Prretttyyyy BAD to me
Will I survive???
LOL
Emilie
Tom Jaszewski
Give peace a chance?
I am really not to terribly interested in how the "group" as a whole
perceives me. Believe it or not every modality embraced in my work
HAD to have research firmly behind it. My budget and staff of 40 gets
scrutinized by all sorts of internal finance department staffers. That
comes with managing the size property I am saddled with. Perhaps I
should have written "I am no scientist but have embraced scientists
and readily available research in building soil biology." NOTHING I do
is based on old bachelors tales and anecdotal information.
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:26:49 GMT, animaux <ani...@98w3fhhnks.net>
wrote:
>This, Tom, is why you have a hard
>time in this group.
Tom Jaszewski
wrote:
>Good question and good point.
Ah but you miss the point! Many people planting and developing
"native" landscapes are NOT using "native" soils.
Where's old Reilly when you need him?
Tom Jaszewski
wrote:
>The one time I did amend the soil for some native plants, azaleas in
>this case the results were less than stellar.
In other words you amended without knowledge of what the plant needed
biologically, or the makeup of the amendments .
J Kolenovsky
then tilled and fed medina/molasses and then covered back up for the
final touch as microbes and bacteria start revving up. You know, if you
need bacterial culture, the drug stores sell over-the-counter
"Lactobacillus" and that does work. Keep it refrigerated so the enzymes
stay fresh. Take for 2 weeks and then go to Mexico and eat/drink
anything you want and send me photos. Please, big smiles in the photos.
J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com
mailto:gar...@celestialhabitats.com
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden
mailto:gar...@hal-pc.org
--
zhanataya
wrote:
>My goodness, how are you? We've dialoged before. Heck, even complimented
>each other, if I recall.
>It must be one of those things of uniqueness. We all have our ways. The
>permaculture people say don't till. Other people say they till. I have
>always been one to organically boost my soil by getting the microherd
>stampeding.
>
>J. Kolenovsky
>http://www.celestialhabitats.com
>mailto:gar...@celestialhabitats.com
>http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden
>mailto:gar...@hal-pc.org
I'm doing great, thanks. Just got back from a 2 month walk about.
And my gardens really shows the neglect. My mode of gardening isn't
going to produce the full lush gardens Victoria has achieved using
natives, but it fits well for a person with physical restrictions.
Actually I'm ambivalent about methodology. "If it works for you,
stick with it." My neighbor, Ann, does strange things by my reckoning
but all her plants are sturdy and healthy.
Zhan
zhanataya
<to...@noneforme.livesoil.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:01:20 GMT, zhanataya <billz...@vol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>The one time I did amend the soil for some native plants, azaleas in
>>this case the results were less than stellar.
>
>In other words you amended without knowledge of what the plant needed
>biologically, or the makeup of the amendments .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>tomj
Once again your incorrect pre-conceived convictions has led you down
the wrong garden path.
Joe Doe
> The clients yard had SAD (St. Augustine decline). Plus I personally knew
> of the lot for over 41 years and inefficient landscape management was
> practiced. The soil base was infertile and devoid of nutrients. The
> microherd was at the lowest level the grade had seen in decades. The
> site will have a fresh start going forward. =
>
>
> J. Kolenovsky
I did not realize you did this for a living. I just assumed you were
talking about these products for your own natural landscape. In the
context of doing this for a living I can easily understand why you might
choose to apply numerous products - it is simply a long list of services
you might choose to provide.
I could enter a debate on whether is is wise to łget the microbes to
stampede˛ or even if your inputs can actually make microbes stampede but
this is your business & it is best that you practice it as you and your
clients see fit.
Roland
Joe Doe
ani...@98w3fhhnks.net wrote:
> Not to mention when forests are yanked up, so is the massive fungal mat which
> gives a forest its symbiosis with the other native species within it.
> Fortunately, they are now finding ways to present us with mychorizza in its
> different forms so when we plant barren, leveled areas, we can put it back on
> plant roots till once again the fungal mat restores.
The data does not quite support what you say. D. M Sylvia (who is the
director of the Soil Science Dept at Penn State and formally at FSU) has
published a paper entitled łActivity and species composition of arbuscular
mycorrhizal fungi following soil removal˛ in the Journal łEcological
Applications˛ 5(3) 1995, pp 776-784. This is what they did ł The
experimental plot was located within the Hole-in-the Donut of the
Everglades National ParkŠŠ..from 49 plots (full SR), all plants and the
soil were removed to the limestone bedrock using a bulldozerŠŠ˛ They
collected samples by scraping the crevices in the bedrock. The results
were: łThe first samples were collected ~9 months after soil removal
(SR). At that time total propagule and spore number in full-SR plots were
lower than in partial-SR plots, similar to the schinus area and HIGHER (my
emphasis-Roland) than in the mature glade. Over the next 19 months total
propagule and spore numbers of arbuscular mycorrhizal (AM) fungii
continually INCREASED (my emphasis-Roland) in SR plots but remained
essentially unchanged in the schinus area and the mature glade.˛ Similar
results were demonstrated for root colonization. I can send you a copy of
the paper which has additional details if you want via a FAX or some other
means. The complete citation is listed as ref (A) below.
Secondly, the same authors showed that in phosphate minelands reclamation
( obviously a very hostile environment) inoculation of AM in nursery
cuttings of several woody plants could not be distinguished from controls
even though they achieved 57% colonization (i.e. the controls were
naturally colonized). This statement is supported in reference B (below).
The reality is microorganisms are everywhere. The fact that 95% of plants
have mycorrhizal interactions does not mean you have to do backflips to
find fungal spores. They find you. The earth is several billion years
old. Plants have been here for millions of years. Plants and soil
organisms figured out ways to grow long before cottage industries selling
us łsoil activators˛ and other stuff that is already in our soil or
environment. Does black spot have to be mail ordered or does it find a
susceptible rose plant? Consider this, even in an enlightened city like
Austin less than 5% of the people probably practice organic gardening.
Yet the other 95% of the people seem to be able to get newly planted trees
in new developments to grow. Yes some may struggle, some may dies etc.
etc. But eventually nature triumphs. This is despite the fact that
these people are doing everything possible to make it difficult (abundant
use of fertilzer, pesticide). From a sustainable and ecological
perspective of course the organic approach is good. The organic approach
is sullied by a lot of pseudo science passing as truth.
The cottage industries are very cleverly designed, they start with a
truth: mycorrheazal interactions are good for many plants (true and well
supported). It is then a big leap of faith that this or that product
will in fact contribute to the development of the interaction or is even
needed. Many of these are strict symbionts so you cannot add say
molasses and what not to łget the microbes to stampede˛ as another poster
suggested.
Even if you buy a commercial innoculant there is no guarantee it will take
(as noted by the low infectivity of many commercial products) and even if
it takes it may not be effective. This is supported by reference (C )
below
In general you describe good practices, I share your enthusiasm for
organic gardening. I however am a minimialist I believe in compost.
This is a complex medium that will sustain the diversity of soil
organisms. I believe in retuning organic matter to the soil etc. I
just do not believe all the snake oil that is sold. The truth is
gardeners like to fiddle and the industry is more than willing to give us
laundry lists of ingredients to fiddle with.
Lastly, you have another post in a similar vein which I feel is
sufficiently answered by what I have provided you.
Reference abstracts:
(A) Authors Aziz T [a]. Sylvia D M. Doren R F.
Title
Activity and species composition of arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi following
soil removal.
Source
Ecological Applications. 5(3). 1995. 775-784.
Abstract
Large areas of the Everglades National Park have been invaded by exotic
plant species, particularly Schinus terebinthifolius. In an attempt to
return these areas to the former wetland vegetation, an experimental site
was subjected to soil removal (SR). The objective of this study was to
document the effect of SR on the activity-estimated by total propagule and
spore numbers, and root colonization-and species composition of arbuscular
mycorrhizal (AM) fungi. Soil and plant samples were collected in the
spring (following the dry season) and fall (following the wet season) for
2 yr from full- and partial SR plots, an adjacent site dominated by
schinus, and the mature undisturbed glade. The mature glade had the lowest
mycorrhizal activity, while the SR plots had the highest activity.
Mycorrhizal activity in SR plots increased over the 2-yr period. These
plots also had greater plant species richness than the mature glade. No
relationship was found between root colonization and plant hydrological
category. A total of 22 fungal species, belonging to four genera, were
present as the most abundant AM species in individual plots. Temporal
changes observed in these species were likely related to changes in host
plants and the edaphic environment. We suggest that the complexity of both
AM and vegetation succession on these plots will decrease with time after
species richness of AM and plants peak and the site conditions stabilize.
(B) Author
Sylvia D M.
Title
INOCULATION OF NATIVE WOODY PLANTS WITH VESICULAR-ARBUSCULAR MYCORRHIZAL
FUNGI FOR PHOSPHATE MINE LAND RECLAMATION.
Source
Agriculture Ecosystems & Environment 31 (3). 1990. 253-262.
Abstract
Cuttings of Aronia arbutifolia (L.) Ell., Clethra alnifolia L., Cornus
foemina Mill., Ilex glabra (L.) Gray, and Viburnum nudum L. were
inoculated in a rooting bed with Glomus etunicatum (Nicol & Gerd.)
Gerdemann & Trappe, Glomus intraradices Schenck & Smith, or a mixed
culture that consisted of several unidentified Glomus spp. After 7 weeks,
a low level of root colonization (overall mean of 2%) was recorded for all
plant species except V. nudum. These low percentages were sufficient to
obtain well-colonized plants (overall mean of 57%) after rooted cuttings
were transplanted to potting medium and grown in a shadehouse for 7
months. Inoculation had no effect on plant growth or survival after
outplanting to a site that contained abundant clay aggregates and where
controls became colonized by vesicular-arbuscular mycorrhizal (VAM) fungi.
Further studies are needed on sites differing in physical and chemical
properties before reliable conclusions can be drawn concerning the use of
VAM-fungus inoculation in phosphate minelands reclamation.
(C )
Author Rincon Ana. Alvarez Isabel F. Pera Joan [a].
Title
Inoculation of containerized Pinus pinea L. seedlings with seven
ectomycorrhizal fungi.
Source
Mycorrhiza. [ print] 11(6). December, 2001. 265-271.
Abstract
Containerized Pinus pinea L. seedlings are commonly used for reforestation
in the Mediterranean area. While there is an increasing knowledge of the
potential ectomycorrhizal fungi associated with Pinus pinea, few studies
exist of inoculation techniques with selected ectomycorrhizal fungi. We
tested seven ectomycorrhizal fungi for their effectiveness with
containerized Pinus pinea seedlings. Hebeloma crustuliniforme, Laccaria
laccata and Pisolithus tinctorius were applied as vegetative inocula while
Melanogaster ambiguus, Pisolithus tinctorius, Rhizopogon luteolus,
Rhizopogon roseolus and Scleroderma verrucosum were tested as spore
inocula. The inoculum of each fungus was tested at several application
rates. Among the fungi tested as vegetative inocula, the highest
percentages of ectomycorrhizas were obtained with H. crustuliniforme at
all rates tested. The ectomycorrhizas formed by L. laccata varied from 11%
to 40% depending on the inoculum rate applied. Vegetative inoculum of
Pisolithus tinctorius was only effective at the highest inoculum rates and
gave mycorrhization percentages around 60%. Pisolithus tinctorius applied
as a spore inoculum formed ectomycorrhizas at a frequency of about 50% at
the effective inoculum rates. The rest of the fungi applied as spore
inocula produced more than 50% of ectomycorrhizas at the effective spore
concentrations. These included the highest percentages of ectomycorrhizas
(>80%) obtained with both Rhizopogon species. Differences in growth due to
inoculation with the different fungi were not detected and in some cases
inoculation even reduced the total biomass accumulated by seedlings. All
seedlings reached a size suitable for transplantation.
Joe Doe
"noneforme." wrote:
> Good land man, when we are creating landscapes in "constructed" soils
> the naturally occurring biota hardly exist. There is little of the
> diversity found in an untouched native grouping.
I have refuted this in a reply to "animaux"
That's essentially
> the discursion. Cut the snot nosed peer reviewed crap. It's there,
> frankly I'm not interested in spending the time arguing with, and
> providing you with the resources.
You are the person who at the start of the thread that lots of people come
to you with undocumented stuff. You demanded scientific proof.
You said:
> As usual with many of these miracle products they offer NO data. We
> have the data with compost tea from Dr. Ingham.
>I have not had any experience with products and sales persons
> providing nothing more than anecdotal information on their products.
You demand proof from others but demonstrated that you are incapble of
providing it. In my reply to animaux I have demonstrated I can. You have
also demonstrated that your ignorance is profound.
You go on to state:
> Molasses is effective in increasing bacteria by feeding it.
This demonstrates your ignorance of soil microbiology, the nature of the
organisms and their preferred and usual carbon sources etc. etc. This
clearly demonstrates that even if somebody gave you scientific evidence
you are incapable of evaluating it because you are ignorant of soil
microbiology.
> Sorry, Rollie you missed the boat....
>
I do not take liberties with peoples names. I have been informative,
civil and accurate in my posts. You have been arrogant, and demonstrably
ignorant.
Roland
J Kolenovsky
gar...@celestialhabitats.com
http://www.celestialhabitats.com
gar...@hal-pc.org
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden
Joe Doe wrote:
>
> In article <3E0FDF0F...@hal-pc.org>, gar...@hal-pc.org wrote:
>
> > The clients yard had SAD (St. Augustine decline). Plus I personally knew
> > of the lot for over 41 years and inefficient landscape management was
> > practiced. The soil base was infertile and devoid of nutrients. The
> > microherd was at the lowest level the grade had seen in decades. The
> > site will have a fresh start going forward. =
> >
> >
> > J. Kolenovsky
>
> I did not realize you did this for a living. I just assumed you were
> talking about these products for your own natural landscape. In the
> context of doing this for a living I can easily understand why you might
> choose to apply numerous products - it is simply a long list of services
> you might choose to provide.
>
> I could enter a debate on whether is is wise to ³get the microbes to
> stampede² or even if your inputs can actually make microbes stampede but
> this is your business & it is best that you practice it as you and your
> clients see fit.
>
> Roland
--
Tom Jaszewski
wrote:
>In article <lvav0vo8nbm2qic5h...@4ax.com>, remove
>"noneforme." wrote:
>
>> Good land man, when we are creating landscapes in "constructed" soils
>> the naturally occurring biota hardly exist. There is little of the
>> diversity found in an untouched native grouping.
>
>I have refuted this in a reply to "animaux"
You provided a single piece of research. Hardly qualifies a refuted by
your academic standard.
>
> That's essentially
>> the discursion. Cut the snot nosed peer reviewed crap. It's there,
>> frankly I'm not interested in spending the time arguing with, and
>> providing you with the resources.
>
>
>You are the person who at the start of the thread that lots of people come
>to you with undocumented stuff. You demanded scientific proof.
>You said:
All of the Medina research I have found is quite old and does not
indicate it is anywhere near as effective as compost tea.
>
>> As usual with many of these miracle products they offer NO data. We
>> have the data with compost tea from Dr. Ingham.
>
>
>>I have not had any experience with products and sales persons
>> providing nothing more than anecdotal information on their products.
>
>You demand proof from others but demonstrated that you are incapble of
>providing it. In my reply to animaux I have demonstrated I can. You have
>also demonstrated that your ignorance is profound.
I demonstrated my unwillingness to do YOUR homework.
>
>
>You go on to state:
>
>> Molasses is effective in increasing bacteria by feeding it.
>
>This demonstrates your ignorance of soil microbiology, the nature of the
>organisms and their preferred and usual carbon sources etc. etc. This
>clearly demonstrates that even if somebody gave you scientific evidence
>you are incapable of evaluating it because you are ignorant of soil
>microbiology.
My ignorance or your lack of experience?
>
>
>> Sorry, Rollie you missed the boat....
>>
>
>
>I do not take liberties with peoples names. I have been informative,
>civil and accurate in my posts. You have been arrogant, and demonstrably
>ignorant.
OK Rollie from now on it's Dr. Saldanha?
>
>Roland
MLEBLANCA
writes:
>Hmmm, sounds like you need to be covered with plastic for couple months,
>then tilled and fed medina/molasses and then covered back up for the
>final touch as microbes and bacteria start revving up. You know, if you
>need bacterial culture, the drug stores sell over-the-counter
>"Lactobacillus" and that does work. Keep it refrigerated so the enzymes
>stay fresh. Take for 2 weeks and then go to Mexico and eat/drink
>anything you want and send me photos. Please, big smiles in the photos.
>
>J. Kolenovsky
Hm that doesn't sound too bad, rather like what they do to you at those
fancy health "spas". I think I'll just go over to the Sacramento River and
roll in the mud and get my own native California microbes.
I got a good start on the "solarization" yesterday, while the SUN was out,
and temps were in the high 50s. I found a spot in the sun, out of the cold
North wind, and soaked up rays somewhat like a Fence lizard. However,
I got a little worried when I had the greatest urge to start doing pushups!
Emilie <big lizard Grin>
>
>MLEBLANCA wrote:
>> =
>
>> In article <3E0FDF0F...@hal-pc.org>, J Kolenovsky <garden@hal-pc.=
>org>
>> writes:
>> =
>
>> >The clients yard had SAD (St. Augustine decline). [.......]
>> =
>
>> Wow I knew I suffered from SAD, and now I know what
>> it is. " Saint Augustine Decline"......sounds Prretttyyyy BAD to me
>> Will I survive???
>> =
>
>> LOL
>> Emilie
MLEBLANCA
>I found a spot in the sun, out of the cold
>North wind, and soaked up rays somewhat like a Fence lizard. However,
> I got a little worried when I had the greatest urge to start doing pushups!
>
You replied:
I woudn't see anything wrong with pushups. Californians are so healthy!
The key words are Fence Lizard.......
Ever watched a lizard basking on a warm rock in the sun??
(Pushups!!!)
Emilie
J Kolenovsky
--
Lar
pc.org says...
:) Don't get it.
:)
A trait of the fence/swift lizard to let you know that
this is their rock to sun on is a motion in the way of
"push ups".... it would be funny to see someone break
into spontaneous push ups claiming their bit of sunshine
to enjoy...but I would draw the line wanting to see
someone extend their dewlap.
--
Impressive dog trick...
http://www.bad-dawgs-in-ak.com/multimedia/rookie2.wmv
Lar. (to e-mail, get rid of the BUGS!!
J Kolenovsky
--
J Kolenovsky
Not as thin, either.
--